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InvisiblePocketLady
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Why did God Create Atheists? * 7
    #26357243 - 12/02/19 01:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

"Why did God create Atheists?

There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.

One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”

The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”

“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”

- Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (12/02/19 01:49 PM)


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: PocketLady]
    #26357444 - 12/02/19 03:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

:inlove3:


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Offlinesaintdextro
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: yeah] * 2
    #26357827 - 12/02/19 07:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

"There are many people who claim to be inside the Church, but they are really outside it, for they do not practice the love and the life of Christ; and there are many apparently outside the Church, but who are really inside it, for they do practice the love and life of Christ"

-Saint Augustine




--------------------
"He who finds peace and joy
And radiance within himself
That man becomes one with God
And vanishes into God's bliss."

-Bhagavad Gita, 5.24
One 21 - Building Better Bombs
One 21 - Pacified
One 21 - Two Sides Is Fine
"Respectability is a cloak for the hypocrite" - Jiddu Krishnamurti


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: saintdextro]
    #26357845 - 12/02/19 07:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The atheist position is accommodated in the position of "Build a fort" (defensive position) and "Cast a mount" (attack), which suggests a delight in showing the opposition a thing or two.


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InvisibleAntigov
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #26357869 - 12/02/19 07:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

God created free will, atheism is just the symptom.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Antigov]
    #26358299 - 12/03/19 02:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Who created God?


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleAntigov
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26358332 - 12/03/19 03:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The Bible has several names for God. Ancient of days, alpha and omega, beginning and the end, etc. If the universe is infinite, than God is infinite. No beginning no end. If God is the universe, and there are infinite universe is there a God in each or one, or infinite Gods?


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Antigov] * 1
    #26358334 - 12/03/19 03:40 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

No atheist no religion.

No anti no dote


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Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26359279 - 12/03/19 02:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Obviously the shorthand English so God refers to The Eternal and hence uncreated Ultimate Reality. So properly speaking, God does not ‘exist,’ but IS prior to existence. Metaphysical means ontologically prior to physics (where ‘physis’ Is nature in Greek).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (12/05/19 01:16 AM)


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26359496 - 12/03/19 04:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Obviously the shorthand English so d God refers to The Eternal and hence uncreated Ultimate Reality. So properly speaking, God does not ‘exist,’ but IS prior to existence. Metaphysical means ontologically prior to physics (where ‘physis’ Is nature in Greek).




Certainly man has created metaphysics ?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26359891 - 12/03/19 08:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Man has created symbols and language the purpose of which is to communicate ideas. Ideas are mental impressions of actual Reality. The metaphysical is a word for and idea which is reflective of Reality. Mankind itself is a creation, an evolutionary process which is a link in the Great Chain of Being which has its origin in the Transcendental Mystery which we call God.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26360310 - 12/04/19 01:39 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Obviously the shorthand English so d God refers to The Eternal and hence uncreated Ultimate Reality. So properly speaking, God does not ‘exist,’ but IS prior to existence. Metaphysical means ontologically prior to physics (where ‘physis’ Is nature in Greek).




Correct, as my sig quote conveniently points out! Metaphysic > Epistemology. My question was for some of the lesser-learned but deeply opinionated folk lol. Everyone has "thoughts" until the real philosophical boundaries show up.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 3
    #26360517 - 12/04/19 07:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

My experience has left me to believe that God is more than an impersonal energy field or immutable concept and very much a personal, relatable consciousness.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26360611 - 12/04/19 08:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Man has created symbols and language the purpose of which is to communicate ideas. Ideas are mental impressions of actual Reality. The metaphysical is a word for and idea which is reflective of Reality. Mankind itself is a creation, an evolutionary process which is a link in the Great Chain of Being which has its origin in the Transcendental Mystery which we call God.




:thumbup:  Ideally.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26361522 - 12/04/19 05:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Who created God?





God created itself or God always was.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26362127 - 12/05/19 01:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Man has created symbols and language the purpose of which is to communicate ideas. Ideas are mental impressions of actual Reality. The metaphysical is a word for and idea which is reflective of Reality. Mankind itself is a creation, an evolutionary process which is a link in the Great Chain of Being which has its origin in the Transcendental Mystery which we call God.




:thumbup:  Ideally.




Yes, well, I'm something of a philosophical Idealist. :wink:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: yeah]
    #26362131 - 12/05/19 01:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
My experience has left me to believe that God is more than an impersonal energy field or immutable concept and very much a personal, relatable consciousness.




I rather agree with you yeah. At least I give thanks frequently: before eating, when my old car starts, and when to my delight a sudden inexplicable and persistent craving for pie was sated when my wife dug some frozen apple pie out of the freezer that I thought was long gone! My male feral cat required not one but two cornea surgeries. Both came out repaired (and the 2nd was 2 weeks of round-the-clock Hell for both of us). He is now free and comes in for visits. For this I am thankful and grateful. I'm not too sophisticated to give thanks even if I am only a temporary dream-character in this dream of God's called creation. :lol: Oddly, I never give thanks for disappointment or pain. :wink:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: yeah]
    #26362191 - 12/05/19 03:11 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

God is alive and a being.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Bill_Oreilly] * 1
    #26362402 - 12/05/19 07:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
God is alive and a being.




True I think.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26363162 - 12/05/19 02:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
God is alive and a being.




Correction: Nothing can be attributed to God (as Parmenides pointed out in the Platonic document long ago), so "alive" cannot be posited as we only understand this word as embodied life juxtaposed by death.
Secondly, God is also beyond "being" as it is commonly understood (another point by Parmenides) and so even being cannot be posited yet none of these denials of attribute means denial of God as Ultimate Reality. The Platonic dialogue influenced the Platonists, then the Neo-Platonists and the Neo-Platonist Christian theologians like Pseudo-Dionysus who was very influential in Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christian mysticism. I was corrected by my Hindu logic and mythology teacher on this point decades ago so I'm passing it on. Scriptures are metaphorical at best.

Protestant theologian Paul Tillich probably said it best when he pointed out that God is not 'a' being among other beings but is rather "the Ground of Being." This God-concept has its corollaries in other religions God-concepts, even in non-theistic, non-personal aspects of Hinduism (Nirguna Brahman) and in Buddhism where one finds 'the Ground' in Tibetan Buddhism's Dzogchen practice.

In Buddhism, Ultimate Reality is identified as Compassion and Wisdom, in Christianity, the Logos or Son is identified as agapé (1 John 4:8). The Father in Christianity is the Unmanifested Godhead of which nothing can be posited yet despite that it is referred to as Father (although in Aramaic it is identified as Cosmic-Mother-Father or Cosmic Birther [Abwoon], both acknowledging a feminine aspect). Beyond the Christian Trinitarian God-concept lies the "Super-Essential Godhead" of Pseudo-Dionysus, a unity of which nothing can be posited, not even being.

We must learn to be quiet instead of attributing qualities and attributes that apply to existence to the Mystery which is prior to existence. Creation 'exists.' Properly speaking, God does not exist, which is to say God (Ultimate Reality) has no manifest existence since existence means form, energy, matter, extension in space-time, mass, charge, etc. As the Hindus say, "Neti, neti...," Not this, not this.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: PocketLady] * 1
    #26364268 - 12/06/19 04:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think that faith is pointless without someone to question it, even if it's yourself. We're all just playing out stories, in the grand scheme of things, and without challenge and mystery a story is naught but "going through the motions." That's not what you want out of life, not what you deserve. Certainly not what I want for my kids. No matter what we think about the road, as long as we know which one we're on we can always make it back home.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: larry.fisherman] * 3
    #26367105 - 12/07/19 02:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

In this neck of the woods, everything consists of dualities. So, there have to be those who believe and those who don't.

God doesn't have an inferiority complex, he's fine with you nolt believing in him. He knows that, from your point of view, you have valid reasons to.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Asante]
    #26367790 - 12/07/19 08:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
In this neck of the woods, everything consists of dualities. So, there have to be those who believe and those who don't.

God doesn't have an inferiority complex, he's fine with you nolt believing in him. He knows that, from your point of view, you have valid reasons to.




Amen to that


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26368264 - 12/08/19 03:04 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Who created God?





God created itself or God always was.




:kenthumbup:


You and I should have a beer sometime, Bill.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26368741 - 12/08/19 10:05 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Who created God?





God created itself or God always was.




:kenthumbup:


You and I should have a beer sometime, Bill.





I was gonna propose Bill and I got a room on a closed ward with good roomservice to play chicken with God and a quarter gram of PCP on the table. :rockon:

My place of course, we have universal healthcare :wink:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Offlinedk-1
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Asante]
    #26391441 - 12/19/19 08:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

You mean, why did "I" create Atheists?


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Asante]
    #26391780 - 12/20/19 01:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Who created God?





God created itself or God always was.




:kenthumbup:


You and I should have a beer sometime, Bill.





I was gonna propose Bill and I got a room on a closed ward with good roomservice to play chicken with God and a quarter gram of PCP on the table. :rockon:

My place of course, we have universal healthcare :wink:




Excellent, so if I come crashing through the windows like a ninja to join the party, my damages are covered! :cool:


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26391943 - 12/20/19 05:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Who created God?





God created itself or God always was.




:kenthumbup:


You and I should have a beer sometime, Bill.





I was gonna propose Bill and I got a room on a closed ward with good roomservice to play chicken with God and a quarter gram of PCP on the table. :rockon:

My place of course, we have universal healthcare :wink:




Excellent, so if I come crashing through the windows like a ninja to join the party, my damages are covered! :cool:






Not just that, anesthesia's right on the table nigga :raisemyglass:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Asante]
    #26393393 - 12/21/19 01:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'm about to trip hard; what if mushrooms created God?

:filosoraptor:


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: PocketLady]
    #26393767 - 12/21/19 09:36 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I reject peoples personification of a higher power.  People thinking of an all knowing man wielding magic powers is a vast retardation.

Think of God as consciousness.  Not self, not ego, not a thing.  Most do not dare dream big enough.

That is why many worship the Universe.  The Universe is bigger than any idea of God, by far.  It will always come down to that people feel that their ego is real. Bwhat the ego creates feels real, in it's own shadowy way it knows it is not.

Religion mostly being from the ego, which is apparent.  I think if one had God, they wouldn't need much else.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineEnlightenedSnail
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Asante]
    #26403842 - 12/27/19 11:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
In this neck of the woods, everything consists of dualities. So, there have to be those who believe and those who don't.

God doesn't have an inferiority complex, he's fine with you not believing in him. He knows that, from your point of view, you have valid reasons to.




^ I like this sentiment


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OfflineEnlightenedSnail
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: PocketLady]
    #26403845 - 12/27/19 11:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
"Why did God create Atheists?

There is a famous story told in Chassidic literature that addresses this very question. The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson.

One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”

The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”

“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”

- Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)




Thanks for bringing this book to my attention!


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: PocketLady]
    #26403874 - 12/28/19 12:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

God created an infinite range of possibility so that there is a medium for which free-will could be exercised.

An atheist is one of many possible outcomes.
A stupid one as even a man of science is of a belief system which has a branch of theology and theory.

Nonetheless, it has been afforded that a man may exercise their free-will to make a fool of themselves.

Focus more on big picture ideology vs trying to reason through the idiotic self selections of man and you will elevate your mind.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: Antigov] * 1
    #26418063 - 01/05/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Antigov said:
God created free will, atheism is just the symptom.




I fully agree. And in the OP, the act of Love to another person outside of religion is ironically an example of God's Love flowing thru the Atheist.

I also believe from reading Pleiadian Channelings that humans are slowing creeping out of a spiritual "dark age" where Atheism and Materialism was more common.


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Offliner00tcmplx
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Re: Why did God Create Atheists? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26418093 - 01/05/20 06:16 PM (4 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I also believe from reading Pleiadian Channelings that humans are slowing creeping out of a spiritual "dark age" where Atheism and Materialism was more common.





How does this work when people appear to be more asleep?
Atheism and Materialism are on the rise are they not? Big time...


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