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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,473
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Abolish the Senate * 3
    #26357159 - 12/02/19 12:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

There is no reason why a state like Wyoming should have as much of a legislative say in federal policy, with a population smaller than most major cities, as a state like California.


Like the electoral college, the Senate is an archaic creation of the white landowner class that our Constitution was created to protect, and must be abolished.


If you disagree, explain yourself.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26357173 - 12/02/19 01:05 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:raisemyglass:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26357330 - 12/02/19 02:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
:raisemyglass:




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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26357425 - 12/02/19 03:29 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Is there an argument for major reform of the senate?


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #26357429 - 12/02/19 03:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Unfortunately, abolishing it would be nearly impossible because it would require the consent of many low population states that now enjoy overrepresentation. Or more accurately it would require the cooperation of the GOP who benefits greatly from this tyranny of the few. Most of the 15 least populated states solidly back the Republicans.

The great compromise is a vestige of the 1700s. I'm sure the framers realized it would result in this imbalance, but not the extent currently exhibited by the, for instance, California vs Wyoming situation, which is the most extreme example.

What it would take IMO would be the strengthening of state powers so that the large and medium population states would see the self interest of even Republican states backing this amendment. Similarly the electoral college will lose favor with the GOP if Texas especially, and other high population red states go blue.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,473
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 23 minutes, 34 seconds
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26357434 - 12/02/19 03:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Sure it’s politically unviable but so is universal healthcare, we’ve been reduced to thought exercises which is kind of the point of destroying our broken system. But yes we won’t be able to legslate away the legislature.


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InvisibleYangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26357435 - 12/02/19 03:36 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Unfortunately, abolishing it would be nearly impossible because it would require the consent of many low population states that now enjoy overrepresentation. Or more accurately it would require the cooperation of the GOP who benefits greatly from this tyranny of the few. Most of the 15 least populated states solidly back the Republicans.

The great compromise is a vestige of the 1700s. I'm sure the framers realized it would result in this imbalance, but not the extent currently exhibited by the, for instance, California vs Wyoming situation, which is the most extreme example.

What it would take IMO would be the strengthening of state powers so that the large and medium population states would see the self interest of even Republican states backing this amendment. Similarly the electoral college will lose favor with the GOP if Texas especially, and other high population red states go blue.



This is also accurate :sad:


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


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Offlinedreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26359272 - 12/03/19 02:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yall say this cuz you don't live in low population states right? They already have barely any say if any when it actually comes to policy. I live in Hawaii we got like 2 mill population tops. And we got no say when it comes to federal policy as it is... The state is basically a military base.

The federal government should be all but eradicated. They should leave all lawmaking up to the states and they should only focus on defending the border and assisting in inter-state affairs. Otherwise I say they have no business in policing the states, that should be done by the states themselves.


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: dreamachine]
    #26359286 - 12/03/19 02:48 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Giving more power to less people is not how a democratic system should work.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,473
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 23 minutes, 34 seconds
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: dreamachine] * 3
    #26359303 - 12/03/19 02:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Yall say this cuz you don't live in low population states right? They already have barely any say if any when it actually comes to policy. I live in Hawaii we got like 2 mill population tops. And we got no say when it comes to federal policy as it is... The state is basically a military base.

The federal government should be all but eradicated. They should leave all lawmaking up to the states and they should only focus on defending the border and assisting in inter-state affairs. Otherwise I say they have no business in policing the states, that should be done by the states themselves.




I’ll never understand why people think the federal government is tyrannical, and their solution is to let the states decide for themselves how tyrannical to be. We literally fought a war over this.


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InvisibleYangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: The Ecstatic] * 3
    #26359313 - 12/03/19 02:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The federal government is as tyrannical as the people who occupy it. This is why electing good leaders is important.


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 12,135
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Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: YangSupporter] * 2
    #26359343 - 12/03/19 03:10 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Abolish the states too while you're at it, otherwise you leave behind the reason for having electoral college and Senate. Cities and towns as well, why should NYC have a right to tax people on top of the federal taxes? Also why should California be allowed to be so big while rhode island is so small?

Congress can be just randomly picked from the population as there would be no locality to represent.

If you disagree explain yourself.


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Indirect Weighing tek


Edited by Sugabearcrisp (12/03/19 03:12 PM)


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Invisiblemycosis
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Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 19,751
Loc: USSA Flag
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #26359360 - 12/03/19 03:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Giving more power to less people is not how a democratic system should work.




A true democratic system would be a bloodbath.


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InvisibleYangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: mycosis]
    #26359380 - 12/03/19 03:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Giving more power to less people is not how a democratic system should work.




A true democratic system would be a bloodbath.



Thats a right wing talking point.


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


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Invisiblemycosis
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Registered: 08/20/07
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Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26359387 - 12/03/19 03:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Is it?

You don't prefer a system that strengthens minority rights?


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: mycosis]
    #26359391 - 12/03/19 03:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
Is it?

You don't prefer a system that strengthens minority rights?



Giving power to a minority of people is the road to authoritarianism.


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Invisiblemycosis
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Registered: 08/20/07
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Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: YangSupporter] * 1
    #26359397 - 12/03/19 03:29 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So you prefer majority rule and minorities can just suck on the end of a rifle then?


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InvisibleYangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: mycosis] * 1
    #26359402 - 12/03/19 03:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
So you prefer majority rule and minorities can just suck on the end of a rifle then?



No thats why we have the civil rights act... Also your attempts to frame giving more power to everyone as a bad thing is a conservative view.


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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: YangSupporter] * 1
    #26359405 - 12/03/19 03:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You think that would have passed in a majority rules system?


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
Re: Abolish the Senate [Re: mycosis]
    #26359416 - 12/03/19 03:36 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
You think that would have passed in a majority rules system?



Yes since the USA was changing culturally during this time period but its moot point and any restructuring of the government to become more democratic would need to ensure that no ones civil liberties or freedoms could be violated by the State.


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https://youtu.be/cTsEzmFamZ8


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