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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post.
    #26351323 - 11/29/19 12:50 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I have cultivated many spores over time usually from spore prints, but this time I received spores from a major spore vendor with zero results.  Zero contamination, zero germination of anything at all really, despite an entire syringe injected.

https://i.imgur.com/MD3Li.jpg

This is what I'm usually seeing from every other spore print, but these new jars are not doing anything even with the same substrate/process.

1) Do you think something has changed with the substrate (anti-fungal agents maybe) or..
2) Are these particular spores just not as viable?

I can respond with the normal jars that have been at 85 F for an entire 7 days to show zero growth, I'm opening two of them to purposefully contaminate them to rule out bad substrate.


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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: w00tmycelium]
    #26351383 - 11/29/19 02:45 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

first off way too hot second a whole 7 days lol man iv had spores take over 2-3 weeks before usually you will c germination within 3-14 days in my experience but the latter is not unheard of. and sometimes you c nothing thats why spores suck and we all hate having to go back to them at times i highly suggest getting into agar you will save alot of time and headache


--------------------
PANAEOLUS FRUITING MADE SIMPLE



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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: jcm4620]
    #26352110 - 11/29/19 01:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Can you give me any links/tips on agar?  I've done grain to grain with lots of success so I assume it's similar?


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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: jcm4620]
    #26352114 - 11/29/19 01:58 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Oh also, that was a previous batch that was successful... the picture.

If you want pics of my new jars I can post those too but I've got three separate setups: one at 75F, one at 80F, and one at 85-87F.  None of them are germinating anything whatsoever.  I'm going to purposefully try to contaminate one to see if there's some sort of anti-fungal agent in the substrate.


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: w00tmycelium]
    #26352123 - 11/29/19 02:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Click the read more link in my signature, lots of agar teks in there, I recommend c10’s

Sometimes you get a bunk syringe, call/email the vendor and tell them when you looked under the scope there werent any spores or they all looked damaged etc, make sure not to mention cultivation at any point.


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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: AyePlus]
    #26352151 - 11/29/19 02:18 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Many thanks for the info!  I've had successful spores so many times that this seems like my first fluke.  This is the first time I've attempted with a syringe and not prints though, usually I make my own syringes.  I'm still unsure as to the viability of the bird seed I'm using so I'm going to try different methods/brands there too.  But I should definitely look into Agar, thanks again for the posts, I have a lot of extra research to do.


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: w00tmycelium]
    #26352299 - 11/29/19 03:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Any grain will work if prepared properly. Probably wasnt your birdseed if you sterilized in for at least 90 min @ 15 psi


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
🅂 🄰 🄼 🄴  🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼  🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿


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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: AyePlus]
    #26356873 - 12/02/19 08:58 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
Any grain will work if prepared properly. Probably wasnt your birdseed if you sterilized in for at least 90 min @ 15 psi




That's exactly what I've experienced for 10+ years now, so this one has confused me.  I've tried to purposely contaminate this bag of WBS with wild fungal/yeast/mold spores for days (cooked, uncooked, some more dry, some soaked for 24 hours, some for 48 hours) and _none_ of the seeds have done anything whatsoever.  It's pretty bizarre but the first time I've experienced anything like this.  I'm getting some Agar today per the recommendations in this thread just to make sure I'm not going crazy.

EDIT:  What I mean is I've had every grain be a success with tons of different preparation methods that I wanted to test out, this is the first one with zero success no matter what I do.  I'm going to buy some organic grains after I see some Agar success next up.


Edited by w00tmycelium (12/02/19 09:00 AM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: w00tmycelium]
    #26356895 - 12/02/19 09:18 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

A bag of dry grain isnt going to just mold over.


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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: mushboy]
    #26356985 - 12/02/19 10:34 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
A bag of dry grain isnt going to just mold over.




Check out my posts from earlier.  I have approximately 20 different experiments from the same grain/WBS.

I have 10+ years of very successful grain cultivation so far and this one is the most confusing.

Out of the 20 experiments, 50% have been boiled (which seems to be a big winner for me usually) and 50% soaked for 24-48 hours, with some batches currently being more.  Half of those have been inoculated, half have been exposed to the air for days to see if I could get anything with full soaking just out of curiosity.

Again, I have never had a bag of grain not support spores at all in any condition or temperature.  I've segmented each of the 50/50 into separate temperature conditions as well just to see.

I am receiving Agar today so I can verify the spores themselves but I'm probably going to spawn on other organic grains afterward to make sure it's just this particular bag of WBS that is defective.

I just am now wondering if WBS suppliers are including anti-fungal/bacterial agents, because this was never a problem before.

The next option is that I just pay more for organic grains and go from there, it just costs more money.


Edited by w00tmycelium (12/02/19 10:51 AM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: w00tmycelium]
    #26357037 - 12/02/19 11:20 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You've cultivated grain for 10yrs?


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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: mushboy]
    #26357044 - 12/02/19 11:25 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I mean that I've had mycelium spawn on every grain I've used for at least 10 years now, dozens of batches and casings and jars and grain 2 grain and everything has been amazing and never really many failures aside from 2% contam that I threw out tops.

The pictures I posted earlier were from about 8 years ago, after casing and getting pinsets and whatnot, but I've just always had success and I'm truly thinking it's the current WBS vendor that has something in it that's stopping all spores.


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Offlinew00tmycelium
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Re: Good spores, bad spores, how to tell? Questions in post. [Re: w00tmycelium]
    #26369237 - 12/08/19 03:00 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Update on the situation:

I used the same syringe/spores on sterile agar petri dishes and they are going crazy, fastest growth I've ever seen.  So the spores must be viable, but this particular wild bird seed that I have must be broken somehow.

I am going to experiment by taking cultures and working with a bunch of different grains and grain mixes to see how promiscuous these cubes are.

Thanks for the help everyone, the agar has definitely made things way more obvious!


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