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Saribo
journeyman
Registered: 07/17/03
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Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs?
#2635321 - 05/04/04 12:32 AM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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I just want to get a feel for what you experienced fellas thought about this. A friend of a friend has got a very conveniently located garden center that is locally owned and very well supplied. Lately he's been buying the usual suspects there: vermiculite, perlite, bird seed, lime, and some other odd things. They also ask for some personal info upon checkout. Due to the conservative mom and pop nature of the place he's gotten to wondering if they might compile purchase lists using this personal info and alert someone if they see a customer who buys a lot of weird shit without buying basic stuff like seedlings and soil etc. Is this guy being completely paranoid or has this been known to get people busted? (more with pot than mushrooms no doubt, but if someone knew what to look for the same would apply to mushies...)
Anyway, possible solutions for my friend include: Getting his actual garden going again, which he should do anyway, but normal gardening seems a little dull at this point. This would require the purchase of "normal" supplies and give a cover story if anybody came poking around. Obviously starting to give fake personal info on future purchases is a possiblility too. Ideas thoughts about the actual risk level presented here etc.?
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2635769 - 05/04/04 03:15 AM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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I've often wondered this of my local hydroponic's shop. But the guy there is this down to earth, hippie type dude who seems pretty cool. Once I was buying geolite there, and he just kept looking at my husband and I really intensely, like he was trying to read our minds or something. Then when I was leaving, he smiled real big and said, "You kids have a great time."
Strange...but I don't feel threatened by him, because you know...he exudes that certain vibe. 
I don't know man. Is there anywhere else you can go for your supplies?
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Cow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2636002 - 05/04/04 06:11 AM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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You don't have to give your name out for any purchaces. I would either give them fake information, or tell them you don't want to give out your information. Its not like your buying a handgun. And so what your buying birdseed and lime and verm and whatnot? There are a thousand things you can do with this. If in doubt, pay with cash and insist on your own privacy. Do you give your email address out to every website that ASKS for it ? My guess is that this place is just compiling info on all customers in order to promote their products either by mail or by phone. The risk is low IMO. really the best way to find out about the list thing would be to ask why they need your personal information. That way when they say 'for coupons' or whatever, you can kindly decline. GL, maybe others will have ideas on your situation as well.
-------------------- _______________________________________ CSC
Life's a garden, Dig it! ~Joe Dirt Off Topic Website
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2636073 - 05/04/04 07:18 AM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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very little chance... you would have more to wory about buying black powder or bullets at walmart
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Lana
Head Banana


Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
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Right, you don't need to give them information to buy things
If they do ask for your info, politely ask them why they're asking! Its probably a mailing list. I know when I go into some stores and they ask for my zip code. I get them 99999.
The clerk looks at me like I'm nutz, but I know its just for marketing purposes.
When buying items from a store, you should have an idea of what you're buying. In case someone asks you But it is spring time so its not uncommon to buy lots of things from a gardening store this time of year.
Again, I would just ask them why they need your personal info and see what they say
Lana
-------------------- Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products http://www.MycoSupply.com The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies. Visit us online or call us toll free
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valour
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2636081 - 05/04/04 07:29 AM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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Plus growing mushroooms on bird seed isn't something they'd probably be looking for
-------------------- "Remember, son, I didn't sell out- I bought in."
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grib



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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2636270 - 05/04/04 08:51 AM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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I always pay with cash. When they do ask for your name it's typically for marketing purposes. You can always decline to provied the info.
-------------------- <~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>
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Le_Canard
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2636450 - 05/04/04 10:27 AM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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And you have to remember that most garden supply store clerks are minimum wage workers (lots of HS people there as well in the summer months) so I doubt they really care what you buy or what you're going to do with it. But don't stop being a little bit paranoid - in this sort of thing, thats always a good thing!
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ChiefThunderbong
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2637276 - 05/04/04 02:53 PM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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I think if you were buying something a little more serious, the paranoia might be more reasonable. For instance if you were purchasing a huge hydro set up and lots of lights. I doubt anyone is gonna think twice about some birdseed and vermiculite.
-------------------- Yeah spinnin' around again yea caught in a tailspin
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mycoguy
old hand

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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2637730 - 05/04/04 04:58 PM (20 years, 19 days ago) |
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pay with cash, and dont give your personal info.
--------------------
(and no, that's not me in the avatar) Yahoo! Pacific Northwest Mycology Group
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK



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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: mycoguy]
#2640971 - 05/05/04 09:42 AM (20 years, 18 days ago) |
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I have heard reports that if a hydro-shop could be correlated to a grow-bust (iow, the grower gets busted and the lights are proven to come from the shop) then the feds can and will request to see compiled information and even erquest that information be compiled. I don't remember any of the specifics but I read a case in High Times where this happened and several growers utilising the shop were busted.
Simply pay with cash and leave no personal information.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: debianlinux]
#2641064 - 05/05/04 10:18 AM (20 years, 18 days ago) |
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^^^^^ pay cash...bogus names FORGOTTEN MAN Very detailed, well worth the read. http://www.drugsense.org/lists/restore/2002/v2002.n268 a summation for the lazy ones http://www.hr95.org/Tuckers.html By July, 1992, the DEA was involved in Operation Green Merchant, a campaign to eradicate indoor marijuana cultivation across the USA. Their targets were hydroponics stores and their customers all over the country. They would copy down the license plate numbers of customers, follow and spy on them, steal their garbage, and subpoena utility bills to check electrical usage, among other tactics in their effort to catch and arrest people. Out of Operation Green Merchant grew Operation Triox. This time their target was a small, hydroponics store called Southern Lights and Hydroponics, Inc. in Norcross, Georgia. The owner, Gary Tucker, was approached by the DEA to put cameras in this store to secretly film all of his customers. His refusal to cooperate led to a promise to shut him down. The feds did more than that before they were done. Gary Tucker, his wife Joanne, and his brother Steven, were convicted of conspiracy to manufacture marijuana based on the offenses of a few of their customers, with whom they had no contact beyond selling equipment which is completely legal. The Tuckers had no marijuana, none on their person, none in their homes, none in their store. Nor did they have any drug paraphernalia. They were never caught selling drugs or buying drugs. http://www.lp.org/lpn/9405-Tucker.html
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Ekstaza
stranger than most


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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#2641957 - 05/05/04 02:18 PM (20 years, 18 days ago) |
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This shit literally made me cry. I just don't know how to take this kind of stuff. How do we get through to our lawmakers.
http://www.hr95.org/hr95faces.html
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Ekstaza]
#2643940 - 05/06/04 12:04 AM (20 years, 17 days ago) |
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I actualy knew them... their shop was a couple miles from my house...
in the insuing raids after they seized the customer lists, the raided a bunck of older people growing flowers.... they had the highest purchase amounts.. lots of complaints files....
I was questioned over a couple purchases I made...
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SillyWilly
member
Registered: 05/04/04
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2644120 - 05/06/04 01:36 AM (20 years, 17 days ago) |
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Actually, I have a very reliable source who works with the managers at Home Depot who told me that when somebody buys the combination of suspicious items, they have a flag put on them. The example he gave me was acetone and chlorine---which I think is used to make meth? I dont think you have to worry because mushroom cultivation is at the bottom of the authorities lists and I doubt anybody who buys bird seed and vermiculite will be looked at twice. Even if you pay with cash and not credit or check, you will always notice they will ask for a phone number, name and address at checkout. The way flags work are if somebody keeps coming back to buy ingredients for Angel Dust or Meth synthesis etc... an investigation can be lauched. Feds watch more carefully and are more concerened with ingredients made to make bombs especially after 9/11. If a homemade bomb goes off and they know what supplies were used to make it, the first places they check are the records at places like Home Depot an Loews. Then again, who is dumb eneoph to give there real information when makin bombs. If it makes you rest any easier, just pay with cash and give a false identity.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: SillyWilly]
#2644642 - 05/06/04 08:23 AM (20 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
SillyWilly said: Actually, I have a very reliable source who works with the managers at Home Depot who told me that when somebody buys the combination of suspicious items, they have a flag put on them. The example he gave me was acetone and chlorine---which I think is used to make meth?
there is a list of chemicals and precursors that are watched available at the DEA website and a smaller list at errowid http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/law_watched_chemicals.shtml
the suspicious combination is to difficult for a store like Home Depot to track when paying cash
Quote:
Even if you pay with cash and not credit or check, you will always notice they will ask for a phone number, name and address at checkout.
My home depot asks for a zipcode and occasionaly a phone number, I give the 555-1212 for the phone and 99999 for a zip code, the do it for demographics and nothing more... if they ask for my name and address they need to supply me with a valid reason because I will ask why... as of yet I have only had Walmart ask for personal information when I was buying bullets, they had a form they wanted me to fill out that was aparently issued by walmart corporate... I refused and made my purchase elsewhere... they have since changed their ammuntion policies
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2645764 - 05/06/04 01:51 PM (20 years, 17 days ago) |
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> the suspicious combination is to difficult for a store like Home Depot to track when paying cash
Spread it around as well... but one thing at a home depot with cash, another thing at the local garden store with cash... another thing at another wally world, etc...
For places like a garden store, I always combined innocent things with my other list. A bottle of nutrients along with some outdoor flowers and a lawn sprinkler for example.
Also, buy in season... looks kinda odd when you are buying a case of quart canning jars in April, but nobody thinks twice when you do the same in August.
I would also make runs where I bought nothing out of the ordinary... just to see how much different it feels and I act when I am not buying anything risky... and to make it harder for anybody watching... more to keep track of, etc. (What do you mean he only bought tulip bulbs? Do we follow him or not?) Sometimes I would buy these items with credit, to create a clean record.
For the really risky stuff, I would always ride the bus downtown and then walk to the store. With three or four stops for different busses, a quick one-way walk through the mall, a few more busses, a quick bite to eat, etc... it becomes very difficult for somebody to follow you without being noticed.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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SillyWilly
member
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#2646309 - 05/06/04 03:38 PM (20 years, 17 days ago) |
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>>>My home depot asks for a zipcode and occasionaly a phone number, I give the 555-1212 for the phone and 99999 for a zip code, the do it for demographics and nothing more... if they ask for my name and address they need to supply me with a valid reason because I will ask why Well, if I were buying items in question, I would not supply them with a zip, phone# and address that is obviously bogus or ask "why" they are asking. That makes you look even more suspicios. Just supply them with an address and name that is totally not yours or atleast sounds valid...even memorize a real one. These are measures that arent neccessary for mushroom cultivation unless you are paranoid. I would only consider them for other more serious drug operations.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: SillyWilly]
#2649299 - 05/07/04 07:17 AM (20 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
SillyWilly said: Well, if I were buying items in question, I would not supply them with a zip, phone# and address that is obviously bogus or ask "why" they are asking. That makes you look even more suspicios.
no it doesnt... it makes you sound concerned as to what sort of crap they are gonna start sending you... regardless of my purchases I do not supply my name and address to any one, $2500 TV with a warranty... doenst matter what the name is as long as I have the reciept for an exchange or refund
the people in my area are somewhat paranoid anyway about giving out personal information, if there is an inquiry made about the information for DEA tracking purposes they are going to want to see ID so then the only way around it is to provide a phony ID, one that looks legit... there is a such thing as too paranoid
Quote:
These are measures that arent neccessary for mushroom cultivation unless you are paranoid. I would only consider them for other more serious drug operations.
since I dont cultivate anything I wouldnt have much to worry about when purchasing any watched item, after the bust involving Southern Lights I became much more aware of where that information goes... you're throwing out speculation on what happens regarding these purchases...
every time I'm in Home Depot they ask for a zip code... every time I give them 99999... according to most cashiers there its one of the most common.... most will give the real thing but plenty of people wont... some cashiers even put in their own or the stores zip code
as I stated before that I dont give legitimate info, if its a hand gun purchase I have little choice, on chemicals or other supplies there is no fucking way... I've on a couple of occasions gone to make a purchase at different suppliers for items that are on a watch list, when the subject of proper ID comes up I refuse, I dont need what ever it is that bad when there are 1000 other sources for it
what makes you suspicious in this type of situation is when you act nervous about the questions... refusing to divulge information makes you sound concerned about your safety and privacy
I dont even give my SSN to anyone other than my employer, the Tax agencies and my bank... I can choose 2 options with most other places like the power and phone companies... pay a higher deposit or do without the service... even when I've been asked by a cop for my SSN I will refuse... ask for his and se what his excuse is...
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phi1618
old hand

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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2654686 - 05/08/04 08:11 PM (20 years, 15 days ago) |
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If all you're growing is shrooms, the items you buy are totally non-suspicious. If you need a high pressure sodium halide lamp, there might be a little risk.
Just pay cash, and don't give your name. Even if you pay credit, and give all your information, and buy all your (shroom) supplies at the same place, there is almost certainly no risk - except of getting adds in the mail. You're probably taking a bigger risk posting here...
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HypnoToad
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Saribo]
#2655764 - 05/09/04 02:46 AM (20 years, 14 days ago) |
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" Lately he's been buying the usual suspects there: vermiculite, perlite, bird seed, lime, and some other odd things."
Bird Seed,vermiculite,lime and perlite are all quite ordinary things a gardener might buy.Perlite is often used for rooting cuttings,growing plants hydroponically and as a carrier/retainer for fertilizers.It works very well for hydroponics because it holds moisture well but still allows plenty of oxygen to reach roots.Vermiculite is used in the same ways as perlite.Birdseed is bought by many gardeners to feed the birds in their area obviously.And lime is used to raise the ph levels in soil making it less acidic.
I dont see why anyone would be suspicious.Now if you bought items which have very limited purposes or you have no valid reason for obtaing the items like alot of chemicals or precursors.lol Then you can start being paranoid.But otherwise I wouldnt worry.
-------------------- "There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."
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Randolph_Carter
НơĻ?ĢΉōsŧ

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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: phi1618]
#2659633 - 05/10/04 01:16 PM (20 years, 13 days ago) |
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HPS lights are completely innocuous assuming you don't wander in to the store looking like a hippy and smelling of pot. They're a common lighting fixture, and the outdoor ones can be rigged for indoor usage with very little work and a very good safety record (assuming you can do some basic wiring/electrician shit)
As far as paranoia, seuss has it right. Take your time....the only real way that you're going to get caught buying a bunch of licit items is if you're followed, or being tracked. Almost all the stores i'm aware of don't keep their video records more than a day or two at a time, unless there's a robbery or some other need to keep them. And everything you'd buy for the growth of illicit fungus is completely legal. If you want to be paranoid, spread the purchases around....no harm in that. Chemicals and other precursors for various clandestine chemistry methods, however, are a bit more difficult. As was mentioned, certain combinations can be watched as well as individual chems....a basic rule is to not buy more than one item containing a precursor/solvent/whateva at a time, and NEVER keep them all in the same location, or even on the same property. Kinda hard to track an individual, making single purchases of suspicious items (which aren't even that suspicious) in cash, at multiple locations. Just food for thought....i wouldn't be worried about it, unless you're going to the same store 3 times a week for 10 pouonds of parakeet seed.
-------------------- "..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street." Gibson Nuke baby seals for Jesus! (This has been a +1 production.)
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Saribo
journeyman
Registered: 07/17/03
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2668724 - 05/12/04 01:39 PM (20 years, 11 days ago) |
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Thanks for all the responses everyone. This place still seems pretty creepy, but you guys are right, the supplies aren't that unusual and mushroom growing is not that high on the radar. Still, I think my friend will limit the amount of times that he shops there as he feels conspicuous and out of place compared to shopping at larger stores.
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pazuzu
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: MOTH]
#2802716 - 06/17/04 02:47 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah the same thing happened to me at a hydro store: I was buying two large bags of hydroton and the hippy behind the counter looked at me as if to see into my soul. As I was leaving, she said, "Have a great time." It must be a hydro store thing. They can smell a stoner a mile away.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: pazuzu]
#2803595 - 06/17/04 08:36 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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ask a guy who works at a hydro store how many people use the lights for legal grows and they'll probably tell you none. hydroponic shops basically exist for pot growers. hands down. very very few people actually buy a hydro setup and light to grow tomatoes or herbs or whatever.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: ]
#2803679 - 06/17/04 09:11 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
jono1 said: ask a guy who works at a hydro store how many people use the lights for legal grows and they'll probably tell you none. hydroponic shops basically exist for pot growers. hands down. very very few people actually buy a hydro setup and light to grow tomatoes or herbs or whatever.
you should really rethink that... I'm setting up several greenhouses and like many others across the nation we are the largest purchaser of hydroponic equipment, grow lights included... this allows us consistant growth all year even if we soil grow our produce... these companies couldnt remain in business if they depended on a hand full of pot growers for their income...
the average greenhouse is 24x96 feet, you do the math on the number of lights it will take to fill 30 greenhouses to produce a crop of anything and then come back with the same answer... do we buy from the manufacturer.. occasionaly but we would generaly get the same price as if we purchase from a local and by purchasing from locals we have additional service options not available through the manufacturer.
walk into any hydroponics shop I am aware of and ask about who grows and yu will most likely be asked not to return... Southern Lights and Hydroponics sold to many people that grew african violets, they were also raided by the DEA (both the customers and the store) and the owners jailed with no evidence of complicity or cultivation... do you think other shops arent aware of this...
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Could the Local Garden Center be Narcs? [Re: ]
#2804764 - 06/18/04 07:42 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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> very very few people actually buy a hydro setup and light to grow tomatoes or herbs or whatever.
I've had a small hydro setup as a hobby for years. I have never once grown cannabis with it. Saying that only cannabis growers buy hydro equipment is like saying only bank robbers buy guns at gun stores... maybe the police think that way, but it isn't true.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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