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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging
    #26352611 - 11/29/19 06:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Or is that pretty much unavoidable?  I have some good bark I want to try orally.


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OfflineIcon
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: theRealrollforever] * 1
    #26352670 - 11/29/19 07:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It might be a dose issue, too much MAOI can make you sick. Step 1 of Aya is finding that MAOI sweet spot where you're inhibited enough to feel the DMT but not too much to feel nausea. 3g of syrian rue is recommended. There's no harm in taking the rue on its own a few times to find your personal sweet spot before adding the bark factor.

Extracting the harmalas is better, because concentrated syrian rue is so bitter and nauseating for its own reasons besides the MAOI. You only need about 200mg of harmalas to be inhibited. I never got nauseous again after switching to pure alkaloids.

Even better yet is pure alkaloids from the caapi plant. Not all harmalas are equal, the syrian rue plant is about 50-50 harmine-harmaline. Harmaline is a little stronger, more sedating, and even neurotoxic in high amounts. Caapi is almost entirely Harmine, which is reportedly lighter to trip with and technically safer. Caapi also provides a secret bonus that rue lacks, which is THH. Tetrahydroharmine is another harmala that acts like a weak SSRI instead of an MAOI. THH inhibits the reuptake of serotonin (and thus DMT), further increasing the potential length and effects of caapihuasca.


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Icon]
    #26352692 - 11/29/19 07:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
\

Extracting the harmalas is better, because concentrated syrian rue is so bitter and nauseating for its own reasons besides the MAOI. You only need about 200mg of harmalas to be inhibited. I never got nauseous again after switching to pure alkaloids.

Even better yet is pure alkaloids from the caapi plant. Not all harmalas are equal, the syrian rue plant is about 50-50 harmine-harmaline. Harmaline is a little stronger, more sedating, and even neurotoxic in high amounts. Caapi is almost entirely Harmine, which is reportedly lighter to trip with and technically safer. Caapi also provides a secret bonus that rue lacks, which is THH. Tetrahydroharmine is another harmala that acts like a weak SSRI instead of an MAOI. THH inhibits the reuptake of serotonin (and thus DMT), further increasing the potential length and effects of caapihuasca.





Exactly this.


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I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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OfflineLophophora
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: coAsTal] * 1
    #26352801 - 11/29/19 08:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Sabnock's lemon balm tea cleans up some of the body sensations, may still purge but that's part of the experience.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Icon]
    #26352886 - 11/29/19 09:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
It might be a dose issue, too much MAOI can make you sick. Step 1 of Aya is finding that MAOI sweet spot where you're inhibited enough to feel the DMT but not too much to feel nausea. 3g of syrian rue is recommended. There's no harm in taking the rue on its own a few times to find your personal sweet spot before adding the bark factor.

Extracting the harmalas is better, because concentrated syrian rue is so bitter and nauseating for its own reasons besides the MAOI. You only need about 200mg of harmalas to be inhibited. I never got nauseous again after switching to pure alkaloids.

Even better yet is pure alkaloids from the caapi plant. Not all harmalas are equal, the syrian rue plant is about 50-50 harmine-harmaline. Harmaline is a little stronger, more sedating, and even neurotoxic in high amounts. Caapi is almost entirely Harmine, which is reportedly lighter to trip with and technically safer. Caapi also provides a secret bonus that rue lacks, which is THH. Tetrahydroharmine is another harmala that acts like a weak SSRI instead of an MAOI. THH inhibits the reuptake of serotonin (and thus DMT), further increasing the potential length and effects of caapihuasca.



Thank u, 5 shrooms


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Icon]
    #26354546 - 11/30/19 07:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icon said: Harmaline is a little stronger, more sedating, and even neurotoxic in high amounts.




Non-neurotoxic in dosages used though. Iirc, the study that determined neurotoxicity used 6 grams of pure Harmaline, i think you'll find it's impossible not only to find someone willing to take that much Harmaline, but also be able to keep it down long enough for it all to get absorbed as even 300mgs of pure Harmaline can induce severe purging in most people, if not all people, 6 grams of pure Harmaline wouldn't even have a chance to be absorbed before it's all purged back up thus negating serious overdosage risk and therefore never reaching neurotoxic levels.


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26354803 - 11/30/19 11:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I never felt any the one time I had it. Just luck I guess.


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Offlineermine
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #26356934 - 12/02/19 09:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

It's been a while for me but... I always found that using the minimum amount of seeds (for me, 2.5g) and doing a quick brew in slightly acidic water was best. I would just soak finely ground seed in sub-boiling water for about 15-20 mins, with no boiling.  Strain well, good luck!


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: ermine]
    #26486935 - 02/15/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

So I picked some harmine free base from a highly rated eBay vendor...all five star reviews with references to “visionary, magical, etc” in the reviews.  How much would you recommend to start working up to find my sweet spot?  And can I just make a tea with my bark? Any safety concerns with MAOIs I really don’t know much.  Thank u to any help


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: theRealrollforever] * 1
    #26486990 - 02/15/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
So I picked some harmine free base from a highly rated eBay vendor...all five star reviews with references to “visionary, magical, etc” in the reviews.  How much would you recommend to start working up to find my sweet spot?  And can I just make a tea with my bark? Any safety concerns with MAOIs I really don’t know much.  Thank u to any help




Ime, 200mgs of pure Harmine seems like a good dose, not a high dose imo, a good start spot. Dosage recommendation from the DMT-Nexus for pure Harmine is 150mgs to 250ms, 300mgs is too much ime. Link to all Harmala/DMT need to know info here - https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=39239

No safety concerns with Harmalas when it comes to diet/Tyramine, do need to avoid SSRI anti-depressants, Amphetamines/Meth/MDMA, be careful with things metabolized by CYP1A2 or CYP2D6 (which Harmalas also inhibit, so dosage of CYP1A2 or CYP2D6 substrates can be quite potentiated so like Caffeine for example with CYP1A2, so dosage of said substrate needs to be lowered). Also be careful with things that may increase Noradrenaline, but Dopamine isn't too much of a concern with RIMA's as Dopamine is primarily metabolized by MAO-B, not MAO-A, so like SNRI's (Serotonin/Noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor) or NDRI's (Noradrenaline/Dopamine reuptake inhibitor) should be avoided due to the Noradrenaline increase by MAO-A inhibition. Other than that, pretty safe.


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OfflineCosmic Eye
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Sabnock]
    #26487368 - 02/15/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting stuff. I JUST got some syrian rue seeds. Is it any different from encapsulating the seeds raw or should it boiled down and extracted instead like posted above. Do the seeds induce purging even at 2g or less?


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Cosmic Eye]
    #26487387 - 02/15/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cosmic Eye said:
Interesting stuff. I JUST got some syrian rue seeds. Is it any different from encapsulating the seeds raw or should it boiled down and extracted instead like posted above. Do the seeds induce purging even at 2g or less?




It is different, the Rue seed contains the full spectrum chemical composition, so it's going to offer a wider range of effects and feelings and even personality/character compared to purified/isolated Harmine or even Harmine/Harmaline extract or even full spectrum Rue extract, i much prefer the Rue seeds over extracts but if i go for extracts, i go for the full spectrum Rue extract over Harmine/Harmaline or pure Harmine, although that's not to say isolated compounds can't be useful in their own right, one could also add extra Harmine to the Rue seed for a boost in Harmine concentration. Raw Rue seed powder capsules can no doubt cause nausea and gut discomfort, but Harmalas in general are purgatives so they will make you vomit if enough is consumed, though Harmine in itself is way more tolerable on the gut compared to Harmaline or Rue, but enough Harmine and you'll still vomit. In terms of Rue seed powder capsules, roasting the whole seeds prior to powdering and encapsulating reduces a lot of the nausea and gut discomfort that seed powder ingestion can cause, so i roast my seeds before grinding now and haven't had any complaints compared to the raw seed. Rue seed powder capsules will not cause nausea or vomiting at 2 grams, or even 3 grams, 4 to 4.5 grams and up though will usually cause nausea and vomiting, at least for me, but i've found even with 4 to 4.5 grams of Rue seed powder, if the seed is roasted prior to grinding, i still haven't had much in the way of nausea or gut discomfort, and no vomiting, adding DMT to the mix though may be a bit of a different story, but roasted Rue seed seems a lot gentler on the gut compared to raw Rue seed. Alternatively one can boil up the Rue seed and evaporate it down for a sticky residue that can be eaten or encapsulated, i hear that can be a good way to go but haven't yet tried it myself.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26487408 - 02/15/20 05:40 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

What’s your roast tek?


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OfflineCosmic Eye
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26487419 - 02/15/20 05:48 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I have not read about roasting them first. I think over time I will experiment with raw vs roasted. Both being ground up and encapsulated. I dont think Im trying to shake hands with Death any time soon but I want the deep dive for longer. Thanks for the info!


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Cosmic Eye] * 1
    #26487637 - 02/15/20 09:00 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

For roasting the whole Rue seed, i usually just put a bunch on a pan, trying to cover the pan but get them evenly spread out so they're not like too much on top of each other, then i put them in an oven pre-heated to 350 degrees f for about 17 to 19 minutes. The time and temp is just what i do so feel free to experiment around with the time and temp, but be careful that you don't burn them. You'll notice when they're roasted because the color will be more of a light brownish color and smells a bit like peanut butter or chocolate or something, compared to the smell and color of raw Rue seed. Then when they're cooled down a bit i grind them up in a coffee grinder bit by bit until it's all powdered, and store the powder in a container or bag, it seems to keep for a good long while, i've had some powder in a bag for like at least 6 months i think and it still seems good. Then i encapsulate them by using a gram scale, putting however many empty capsules i'm gonna fill up on the gram scale, tare it (to account for the weight of the capsules+the lid which is what i put the capsules in so they don't roll away while sitting on the scale), then i take the empty capsules and scoop the Rue seed powder into it, packing the seed powder as tightly as possible using a drill bit, i fill the big part of the capsule up as fully as possible, and then fill the cap up about halfway or a little more than halfway, then cap it, kinda twisting/pushing the capsule together to make sure it's good and closed. I use 00 capsules btw, but 000 capsules may work better for some people, for me 2 00 capsules weighs about 2 to 2.3 grams depending on how tightly i pack it.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Sabnock]
    #26487786 - 02/16/20 12:59 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

i bet the roasted rue seeds with creamer and sugar taste like coffee :P i always thought the raw stuff tasted and smelled like coffee from the seventh hell, after all.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Psion]
    #26487792 - 02/16/20 01:04 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Lol, maybe, but still would probably taste like bitter crap, just roasted :P

Idk, can't remember if i ever tried roasted Rue seed tea, may one day though.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: theRealrollforever] * 2
    #26487820 - 02/16/20 01:59 AM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I have done a crude extraction with everclear and crushed/powdered plant matter. Soak for 24 hours and then strain with coffee filters at least 3 times  or more, then let evaporate on a flat plate or dish, scrape up and then put in capsules. I have done this with both rue seeds and mhrb. Worked fantastically. It eliminated all nausea for me actually. I had tried the boil and strain brew twice and puked both times. Then I found this recipe of everclear. little to nausea, worked great.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26488664 - 02/16/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I tasted a pinky dip of some tea I made to get an idea of how much salt was in it and good God son, it tasted horrendous.  I have a pretty good handle on drinking funky stuff (calea takes first prize) and I gotta say Syrian Rue is up there man.  I can see why your stomach would want to veto it.

Have you ever gotten ‘acid gut’ or any sort of acidic reflux kind of thing from drinking it?


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:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Is there any way to take Syrian rue / harmalas and NOT get nausea/purging [Re: Amanita86]
    #26488839 - 02/16/20 06:17 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
I tasted a pinky dip of some tea I made to get an idea of how much salt was in it and good God son, it tasted horrendous.  I have a pretty good handle on drinking funky stuff (calea takes first prize) and I gotta say Syrian Rue is up there man.  I can see why your stomach would want to veto it.

Have you ever gotten ‘acid gut’ or any sort of acidic reflux kind of thing from drinking it?




Yes, i've gotten heartburn from consuming Rue seed, iirc even from consuming Rue/Harmala extract as well. Zantac helps a lot, like 75mgs to 150mgs, too much Zantac and digestion will slow down. Limonene/Lemon EO (but primarily Limonene) seems to be really useful for heartburn and counteracts heartburn from the Rue/Harmalas, in fact i'm off Zantac now because of Limonene/Lemon EO, i still occasionally get some heartburn when using Limonene/Lemon EO (moreso Lemon EO whereas Limonene is great for heartburn) but it's rather mild when i do get it. I think probiotics can help too. Just don't take tums on a good dose of Rue/Harmalas, it made me purge every single time that i'd take a tums, for some odd reason.


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