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OfflineBlipstir
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Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT + MAOI, Healing. * 1
    #26352092 - 11/29/19 01:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

hheelllooooooo my fellow beautiful borts, how are you all feeling this winter?

I questions I bring for you today are about Ayahuasca and DMT with MAOI I have only vaporized DMT a handful of times with my last time being the most authentic experience but still just a threshold dose.

The only Hallucinogens I have done in the past 6 years was the vaporized DMT that I extracted and I started with basically like 4 grains of crystals and just doubled the dosage about 4-5 times until I got an actual effect, so obviously a very small dose. It has taken me along time to integrate my last experience and then time to organize my life a bit.

I know there is a descent amount of emotional stress and trauma that needs to be addressed within me and have had positive experiences with mushrooms helping me navigate such things before.

But from what I understand or hear about Ayahuasca specifically is she is much better at doing that or better for healing in general than mushrooms can be. Does DMT Fumarate cultivate that same level of healing Ayahusaca is known for? Even though their both DMT I don't feel considering them the same thing would be a proper / honest thing to do.

But my question to the open-hearted, helpful, love felt and experienced with Ayahuasca, DMT Fumerate and mushrooms. which substance have you had the best results in while looking for emotional (and even physical and sexual) healing.

***a bit of what I feel my next trip might or might not touch on***

-Been seeing a very good therapist the past few months deciding to finally try to figure out why I go into this low level fight-or-flight state as soon I feel someone can be more than just a friend or acquaintance and that we can establish a deeper emotional and physical connection.
-talked about past sexual trauma that I didn't think really stuck with me, never had nightmares or really thought about it. But apparently such experiences can cause your body itself to be, I guess apprehensive of such ideas of physical and emotional intimacy even though your mind doesn't feel scarred from the experience?


Edited by Blipstir (11/29/19 02:26 PM)


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InvisiblePsyduckMonkey
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Blipstir] * 1
    #26352111 - 11/29/19 01:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

DMT fumarate is not orally active. It's used as part of a pharmahuasca, ie. along with the oral administration of harmaline. It's taking the harmaline that makes any DMT orally active.

Pharmahuasca is very close to ayahuasca in effect, of course potentially missing some of the ancillary actives, but also missing a lot of the chemicals causing the heavy body load of aya.


--------------------
Do you believe in the Third Summer of Love?


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: PsyduckMonkey] * 3
    #26352149 - 11/29/19 02:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Pharmahuasca is so awesome. Probably my favorite psychedelic. Never knew it was possible to have sex with an insectoid until pharmahuasca.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: PsyduckMonkey] * 3
    #26352160 - 11/29/19 02:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

which substance have you had the best results in while looking for emotional (and even physical and sexual) healing.




Every psychedelic is a tool for self examination, introspection, epiphanic revelation, and healing.
Each one (and combination) is a tool -- and each tool can accomplish the task you are set upon.

The operator that wields that tool is the determining factor of it's successful implementation.

Short answer? Try them. Each of them. Spend some time with them, and listen to yourself.

They're all keys to unlocking your inner voice-- nobody here can answer your question but you in the end.


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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OfflineBlipstir
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: PsyduckMonkey]
    #26352165 - 11/29/19 02:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

thanks for the correction.


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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: coAsTal]
    #26352192 - 11/29/19 02:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
Quote:

which substance have you had the best results in while looking for emotional (and even physical and sexual) healing.




Every psychedelic is a tool for self examination, introspection, epiphanic revelation, and healing.
Each one (and combination) is a tool -- and each tool can accomplish the task you are set upon.

The operator that wields that tool is the determining factor of it's successful implementation.

Short answer? Try them. Each of them. Spend some time with them, and listen to yourself.

They're all keys to unlocking your inner voice-- nobody here can answer your question but you in the end.





That and conversing with those that are near and dear that influence your state of being to your reality. You can build the greatest of cars, you need learn ways of the roads and how to drive safely alongside other drivers.


--------------------
Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!!

Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.



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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Blipstir] * 3
    #26352232 - 11/29/19 02:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

coAsTal is right, each psychedelic is a tool, the work must be done by the user.

But the different drugs do have different signatures.

Smoked dmt is heavy, fast, frantic and insane.
Oral dmt is little different. More grounded & slower. Way better for self exploration. Lasts a good bit longer, quite like mushrooms (3 to 5 hours, depending on dose).

Oral DMT and mushrooms are pretty close, as they are almost the same chemical (psilocin is 4-ho-dmt).
I found mushrooms to be more chaotic, whereas oral dmt (aya- or pharmahuasca) is more forgiving.
Well .. a high dose of oral dmt will rip you appart and question your sanity just like a high dose of mushrooms. But in low to moderate doses I think oral dmt is a bit more gentle to the mind, as you can think more clearly.

Oral dmt does not build a physical tolerance. You can trip everyday, if you want to.
Low doses like 15 to 20mg are really nice.
Deep but gentle, clears lots of space for introspection without getting too distracted from overwhelming thoughts or visual effects.

Mushrooms can be combined with a maoi, too. Psilohuasca. The experience gets more dmt-like this way, but lasts also longer (up to 12! hours, depending on dose).

Both pharmahuasca and psilohuasca are my favourite tryptamine trips. Lots of insights and revelations. :mushroom2:

-


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26352586 - 11/29/19 06:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

what's your guy's preferred maoi for oral consumption?


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OnlineIcon
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26352620 - 11/29/19 06:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

@pixelpopper Caapi TPA! (total plant alkaloids) meaning powdered hcl extractions of the harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine. That last harmala, THH, is only found in Caapi and has a unique effect of inhibiting the uptake of serotonin, giving a special synergy at the synapses that DMT uses.

@ OP, pharmahuasca ticks all the same boxes as Ayahuasca in my experience. The DMT + MAOI is the medicine; all the plant fats, tannins, acids, etc. can be removed with extraction. I'd highly recommend pharmahuasca because it's easier on your gut and easier to calculate a dose. Every time I brewed a tea from the plants I got nausea, possibly from overdosing the MAOI; or nothing at all if I didn't prepare it strong enough. Pharma preparations eliminate all that guess work. 200mg caapi harmalas + 50-150mg dmt salt will yield guaranteed results.

And yes, it's a very healing and powerful medicine. People I've shared it with have changed their entire life paths from a single trip. One quit their management position at an office to pursue their passion, another found the courage to divorce their spouse, another was inspired to travel internationally, etc. Seems like a good tool for reflection and a good catalyst for action.


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Icon]
    #26352712 - 11/29/19 07:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Do you prepare your own Caapi extractions? I've been making my own caapi teas of varying strengths to familiarize myself with the effects, and recently combining some tea with small dose of smoked DMT. I have yet to try oral DMT and I think I would like to soon... but I am about out of Caapi, definitely not enough left for an oral dosage.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: pixelpopper] * 2
    #26353098 - 11/30/19 03:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I extract harmalas myself. Sabnock encouraged me to do so, and it is stupidly easy. If you can extract dmt then you can extract harmalas.
It's a totally different extraction and more time consuming though. All all you need is cooking vinegar, washing soda (sodium carbonate), and water to get pure freebase alkaloids.
For the HCl salt you need also pure tablesalt (NaCl).

I wrote a pictorial a few year ago, see the link in my signature.
I use rue as starting material. It's way more potent than Caapi, but has no THH, only harmne and harmaline.
100g of rue should lead to ~3g of pure alkaloids, that's 15 solid doses. 100g of caapi give only a couple of hundred mg, one or two doses at max.
Rue is also really cheap, like 30 to 40 bucks per kilo!

With pure alkaloids it's very easy to dose. Just put 200mg of the stuff into a capsule and swallow half an hour before the dmt /shrooms. No nausea this way for me.

-


Edited by Pandemoon (11/30/19 03:29 AM)


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #26353113 - 11/30/19 03:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
Pharmahuasca is so awesome. Probably my favorite psychedelic. Never knew it was possible to have sex with an insectoid until pharmahuasca.




This sounds incredible and mirrors some "alien abduction" reports.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26353320 - 11/30/19 07:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I would say it was an abduction because when i hit the peak I blacked out and when I came to i had the overwhelming feeling "I just had some sort of sexual experience with that thing" but it was not physical


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/30/19 09:53 AM)


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Pandemoon] * 1
    #26353501 - 11/30/19 10:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pandemoon said:
I extract harmalas myself. Sabnock encouraged me to do so, and it is stupidly easy. If you can extract dmt then you can extract harmalas.
It's a totally different extraction and more time consuming though. All all you need is cooking vinegar, washing soda (sodium carbonate), and water to get pure freebase alkaloids.
For the HCl salt you need also pure tablesalt (NaCl).

I wrote a pictorial a few year ago, see the link in my signature.
I use rue as starting material. It's way more potent than Caapi, but has no THH, only harmne and harmaline.
100g of rue should lead to ~3g of pure alkaloids, that's 15 solid doses. 100g of caapi give only a couple of hundred mg, one or two doses at max.
Rue is also really cheap, like 30 to 40 bucks per kilo!

With pure alkaloids it's very easy to dose. Just put 200mg of the stuff into a capsule and swallow half an hour before the dmt /shrooms. No nausea this way for me.

-





Thanks, great tek! I'm going to follow it soon. I've been loving caapi very much, but will probably try the rue because money is very tight right now and caapi prices seem to have currently gone way up since I bought my last supply. Hopefully plan to start growing some of my own caapi soon


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26354486 - 11/30/19 07:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Just ordered 100 grams of rue seeds to give this a shot. :rockon: Should arrive this week, and if I can get the extract sorted by the weekend, I can try it out on Saturday. Looking forward to trying the harmala with shrooms also.

Was really loving the caapi tea and would like to try this with caapi, but for now its going to have to be rue due to cost/availability.

I only have freebase DMT and I've read to mix it with either orange juice, vinegar or coke(soda) to get citrate/acetate/phosphate... any one have any preferrences on using freebase for oral ingestion?


Edited by pixelpopper (11/30/19 07:07 PM)


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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26354972 - 12/01/19 04:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
Just ordered 100 grams of rue seeds to give this a shot. :rockon: Should arrive this week, and if I can get the extract sorted by the weekend, I can try it out on Saturday. Looking forward to trying the harmala with shrooms also.

Was really loving the caapi tea and would like to try this with caapi, but for now its going to have to be rue due to cost/availability.

I only have freebase DMT and I've read to mix it with either orange juice, vinegar or coke(soda) to get citrate/acetate/phosphate... any one have any preferrences on using freebase for oral ingestion?




It supposedly works, but like the rue, it's a cheaper, less effective way compared to converting the freebase to a salt beforehand.

I've swirled 100mg of freebase in a pint glass of OJ before for over 20 minutes thinking that'd be good. Upon draining the glass, at least half the powder stuck to the glass and apparently didn't dissolve. No effects that try. Other times I just swallowed a capsule of freebase and still nothing.

If you're going to extract the harmalas, might as well order some fumaric acid and convert the freebase too IMO. It's ridiculously easy to make. Dissolve the freebase in acetone in a 3:1 ratio with fumaric acid, then let it crystallize back out.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Icon] * 1
    #26355388 - 12/01/19 11:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Harmala freebase works absolutely fine for oral ingestion, it's the only extract i use, i don't use salt forms of Harmalas or Rue extract, i've always used freebased Rue/Harmala extract or ground Rue seed in capsules, the Rue/Harmalas always works and always gets absorbed properly, even if i've taken zantac which can decrease stomach acid. DMT freebase on the other hand apparently doesn't absorb as well, so it should probably be converted to a salt form, but as far as the Rue/Harmala extract goes, freebase is perfect and can be used orally, or smoked, or even snorted.


--------------------


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Sabnock]
    #26355474 - 12/01/19 12:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

For oral ingestion I mix the dmt with lukewarm water and a splash of vinegar. Just very little liquid, like half a shotglass full of water (10ml) and a tablespoon of vinegar.

Then I stirr in the dmt and let it sit for like 15 to 20min. Stirr accosionally. Most (if not all) of the dmt should dissolve completly.
Depends on the purity of the dmt though. White crystals should dissolve well. Impure dmt leaves some yellow clumps that won't dissolve properly.
If there's some dmt stuck in the glass after drinking, just fill it up again with water or whatever, swirl it around a bit and drink.

Usually I start dissolving the dmt right after I took the harmala capsule. Then after 20 to 30min I just drink the shot and chase it with some fruit juice. Dmt in vinegar tastes really bad.

The vinegar turns the freebase into the acetate salt which gets absorbed fast by the stomache.
Never tried it with lemon juice, but it should work the same way. It's dmt citrate then.

The harmalas can be taken orally as freebase or salt. It doesn't seem to differ much.

-


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Sabnock]
    #26355626 - 12/01/19 01:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pandemoon said:
The vinegar turns the freebase into the acetate salt which gets absorbed fast by the stomache.
Never tried it with lemon juice, but it should work the same way. It's dmt citrate then.
-




Yeah & I also read that mixing the DMT with coca cola will produce DMT phosphate and supposedly less problems with nausea, not sure if there's any truth to that.

I have read a lot of reports of using freebase orally working fine, when converted to citrate/acetate/phosphate by mixing with juice/vineger/coca cola... wonder why it didn't work out for Ion? Anyone else have problems with freebase not working orally, when mixed? I'd probably use vinegar because the taste doesn't bother me and it seems the best way to go

I may try taking the harmala extract on its own a few times prior to using with DMT, not sure yet. I'd maybe like to familiarize myself with effects of the rue alone to get a feel for it versus when combined with DMT. Although I have been drinking the Caapi tea already.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26355653 - 12/01/19 02:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I jumped right in without trying the harmalas on it's own first and had no problems with nausea or bad sideeffects.

But it might be a good idea to get familiar with it. :sun:

-


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Offlinepixelpopper
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Re: Questions: Ayahuasca vs DMT fumarate, Healing. [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26357178 - 12/02/19 01:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not so much worried about the side effects of the rue or nausea, I just like to become acquainted with substances individually before combining when they are active on their own. Both just to know the individual character of the one, and so I can recognize how it is different when combining.

And I've liked the Caapi tea so much that I am interested in using harmala on its own in general


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