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laughingdog
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: FungiMaster]
#26355715 - 12/01/19 02:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FungiMaster said: Well I see the guy tomorrow Ed is his name. He is sure interesting. Oh well I found a job, trading stock. Since he wanted me to work. So something to talk about. Maybe switching meds even though I don't take them mostly.
I hope that is Not his name ! Glad you found work. Would have thought he was the one on meds.
I would be excited if I just got hired, in an exciting business, too! But maybe caution, is in order when handling other peoples money in America? Hence these thoughts come to mind: How do you know there is "15% return 6 month yield, got 20k coming", if you only just found a job, trading stock? And, If you are off & on meds will that effect trading stock? Might be good to know before advertising a service?
Good Luck
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laughingdog
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: laughingdog]
#26355981 - 12/01/19 05:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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....Also many might note that advertising a financial service, on a forum where anonymity is considered good practice, seems at cross purposes. Why? ....Because performing investments for clients should require, that the advisor, not just identify themselves, but also show qualifications etc. ....So if you get a client, ( or someone pretending to be a client), from advertising here, they could "put 2 and 2 together". With a name like "FungiMaster" it suggests the result, may not be what was desired. ....That someone else needs to point this out, suggests, it might be well to (putting it politely, as the funny title says) , "curb your enthusiasm".
.... It "should also go without saying", that anyone here momentarily tempted by your "limited time offer", after a moment's consideration, would notice, if just slightly awake, that the intended provider of the service seems to lack elementary caution, and was just hired by someone, whom Marcos pointed out lacks mental stability, not that it wasn't already obvious.
....All of the above is just simple logic as regards the market place, the nature of the internet, and some very basic law in the USA. Of course I do not know you, and the above is not meant to be a judgement on you as a person. I am simply an older person who had made more than enough mistakes in his own life, from lack of caution, and wishes when possible that others might spare themselves similar misadventures.
Edited by laughingdog (12/01/19 06:02 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: laughingdog]
#26362103 - 12/05/19 12:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: Killer post indeed, of interest to me & possibly others; as to whether it has any effect on the OP, I have my doubts.
Paranoid ideation is not changed by facticity or reason. Look at the Trumpanzees. Nevertheless, sometimes people need correction and I for one am too fucking old to listen to paranoid ideation and NOT say something when it reeks of ignorant and hateful anti-Semitism because then it is aimed at me too and I've decided to take it personally after years of being very marginally Jewish. I have a Christian spirit, but a Jewish soul, and I'm not going to let overt, covert, or subtle hatred and deeply stupid shit pass me by any more without speaking up or acting out if that comes to pass. Hatred and ignorance have no place in any spiritual, philosophical, or psychological discussion and as a 20 year member of these Shroomery forums I trust that I will have agreement from mods and administrators alike here.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (12/05/19 01:15 AM)
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laughingdog
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I believe I understand how you feel. Perhaps you may moderate at some point.
...As regards taking things personally, my sensibility is however the opposite. if as you say: "Paranoid ideation is not changed by facticity or reason." why should I upset my self? That thousands are afflicted with it? And it is just one example of infinite human folly, which includes my own follies.
...This does not mean I condone, immorality or cruelty, it means I extend compassion to myself, by not upsetting my self over the fact that the world is far from ideal. Not a new idea of mine, the serenity prayer is along the same lines: .."grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference."
...A book by Ajahn Sumedho, whose title refers to the human tendency to take everything personally; at some point in the book, analyses how by taking everything personally many torture them selves with self blame for what they see as personal failings and past mistakes. Its been awhile since I read it, so I can't spell it all out now. Of course one effect of taking things personally (& self blame), is that it strengthens the sense of self, although apparently that is not the aim. From a Buddhist point of view that is of course counter productive.
Once again, its great to change the things we can if we can do so without burn out, without the added burden of taking offense, and anger without neglecting our other duties: A Doctor should not run out of the operating room to join a protest march
Perhaps you may moderate at some point. A closer attention to detail might be nice.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: laughingdog]
#26363185 - 12/05/19 03:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Taking something personally does not necessarily mean becoming upset although I suppressed anger until a couple of years into my divorce because I came to 'believe' that anger was not a spiritual emotion. Buddhism asserts anger to be the #1 transgression as it often leads to violence. But then I reflect on the righteous anger depicted of Iesous when he chased out the profane money-lenders in the outer temple. I do not think that acting or acting out - motions that utilize emotion are intrinsically taboo. Acquiescence to haters is the bigger sin. "Not to kill the baby-killer is to kill the baby," something I read in The Living Theatre production of Paradise Now long ago. Non-violent demonstration Mahandas Gandhi style is not the tack to take with goose-stepping Nazi dreck. Self-immolation of 150+ Tibetan Buddhists is not changing Chinese policy, it is doing the Chinese government a favor.
I was offered moderator status almost 20 years ago and declined it. I would decline it even today for the same but also for additional reasons. I have a phobia for jury duty, for example. "Judge not that ye be not judged." Judgement entails punishment (banning here) and I do not want to exact punishment even as a corrective (neither have I ver desired to be a father and spend at least 18 years in a perpetual judgement/punishment mode). Now I am 66 years old and I want to be increasingly free of obligations. However, I am still interested in educating and educationmeans both correction and judgement (evaluation, grading). So is a sense there is no escape from judgement but I'd like to minimize this act.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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RJ Tubs 202


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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Acquiescence to haters is the bigger sin.
Would you agree hating (suffering) is a part of all humans experience? Everyone does it, right? We don't have to lay down passively and submit to others attacks but I don't have the time nor the energy to try to eliminate all the suffering that surrounds us all. I do what I can. Whenever we conclude we see "hate" in others, we should stop and appreciate all of the hatred we cling to within ourselves. It's part of being human.
And so much of what's going on these days is fake hate. The Kid Rock rant a couple of days ago is a perfect example. The angry reactions were hilarious. Talk about taking things personally . . .
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laughingdog
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26363997 - 12/05/19 10:18 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Re: MarkostheGnostic ...."Buddhism asserts anger to be the #1 transgression as it often leads to violence."
Not so sure about that...why does anger arise?...
Perhaps belief in self?, perhaps fear?, perhaps belief that others have a self?
A buddhist metaphor in this regard is the empty row boat ( see below). It is not about transgression or sin ( an idea very important to Christians, but not Buddhists ). But about understanding our psychology and how we can suffer less.
....I have no agenda as to how others should behave, in regards to injustice. Very few of us are Ralph Naders, Martin Luther Kings, Edward Snowdens, etc. etc. Many struggle with very ordinary problems that have moral overtones, such as how strict to be with the kids, that cause them much anguish and have no clear answers. It ain't easy being human.
'Empty Rowboat'
"Suppose we are out on a lake and it’s a bit foggy–not too foggy, but a bit foggy–and we’re rowing along in our little boat having a good time. And then, all of a sudden, coming out of the fog, there’s this other rowboat and it’s heading right at us. And…crash! Well, for a second we’re really angry–what is that fool doing? I just painted my boat! And here he comes–crash!–right into it. And then suddenly we notice that the rowboat is empty. What happens to our anger? Well, the anger collapses…I’ll just have to paint my boat again, that’s all. But if that rowboat that hit ours had another person in it, how would we react? You know what would happen! Now our encounters with life, with other people, with events, are like being bumped by an empty rowboat. But we don’t experience it that way. We experience it as though there are people in that other rowboat and we’re really getting clobbered by them. "…
'from Everyday Zen: love and work, by Charlotte Joko Beck'
....Of course as psychologically sophisticated folks know, there is a difference between suppressing a feeling, acting it out, and allowing oneself to feel it without acting on it, or making up a story about it. Many folks miss this and regard anger as bad, just as many meditators think thoughts are an obstacle. There is even the phrase "negative emotions". Vipassana (Buddhist) teachings are hip to all this, and point out that such attitudes hinder any real understanding of, and progress with meditation. And the instructions specifically deal with cultivating an attitude, that avoids these pitfalls.
....Incidentally Buddha never said there was no self. The teaching is that self is not what we take it to be. And that our mistaken ideas in regards to 'it' cause us much suffering. He very purposely did not take a specifically totally defined position. Instead 3 mistaken ideas are suggested: that we take 'self' to be stable, separate & uniform (in other words to have some substantiality & be object like & to have some permanence that even leads some to postulate an eternal soul--these notions are rejected.... ....that there maybe some sort of temporary social self, that is to a large degree dependent on constantly changing dynamic relationship(s), and hence insubstantial, interdependent, without any core, and unstable...is a possibility for us to discover, and not a required belief, again unlike the Christian modality.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26364041 - 12/05/19 11:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I do not pay attention to attention seekers. It's like a Playboy Party Joke I remember from the 1960s which said something like, 'You can always tell who the psychologist is in a bar. He is the only one who doesn't look when a beautiful woman walks in.' Additionally, I assiduously avoid Trumpsters. THEY "get my goat," which is to say in agreement with you that they elicit hatred from within myself. And when it does arise it (1) shows me that I'm not all sweetness and light and (2) it gives me an opportunity to Witness that visceral reaction. BUT, I cannot simply love hateful beings. I can be courteous and I can act compassionately if need be, but I do not like them, nor do I want to be in a social situation with them (a situation will arise next month in which I will have to choose to offend a friend who lives amidst a majority of Trumpsters when she invites us to her yearly birthday party by declining the invitation or attend and be surrounded by possible haters and fools who are mostly older than I am. "There is no fool like an old fool." What to do? Can one forgive someone who doesn't think [s]he's sinned? I'm not even talking about a Narcissistic Sociopath like Trump who does not believe he's EVER done anything wrong, who has NEVER apologized for any publicly known offense, and who processes his actions as being right just because they're HIS actions. He is quite mad, 'the Mad King.' I'm talking about the average fool. 
Taking something personally is not a choice for most people in my experience. Most people do not Witness. Most people live by knee-jerk reactions. They are "asleep" as Gurdjieff said. I remember being at a party* many years ago when some woman wanted to make her husband jealous JUST by taking to me. The next thing I knew there was this big, drunk jerk standing over me breathing hard. I did not react to his stupid alcohol-soaked mammalian territoriality and that eventually seemed to defuse his stupid ire. I did not appreciate the woman using me in her female game-playing and her husband was like a marionette to her string pulling. I choose to take things personally else my detached INTP attitude would just intellectually mimic the Witness and I'd wax clinical and impersonal.
*(Parenthetically, this party was at the new home of my former next door neighbor who moved to the next nothern county and who was a Special Agent with the FBI with whom I had a contest in 1989 - who could grow mushrooms first! He had always wanted to try a psychedelic. I won and he and I tripped on the first fresh specimens which was pretty intense as I recall. I got over a lot of FBI paranoia back there in in '89. He gave me his glove box/grow chamber when he moved which I have to this day).
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
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Quote:
Paranoid ideation is not changed by facticity or reason.
I’d agree that facticity or reason does not immediately change idealisations, but from experience I do believe that when delivered respectfully and informatively, it is possible to uncover the roots of their beliefs and at least provide the alternative; to inform them of the for and against of certain ideas.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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laughingdog
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Re: MarkosTG
the way I heard the joke (“'You can always tell who the psychologist is in a bar. He is the only one who doesn't look when a beautiful woman walks in.”) is:
“You can always tell who the psychologist is in a room. He is the one who looks at the other men when a beautiful woman walks in.”
....I can’t even stand to listen to Trump, or watch him on a news feed, so I relate, to your distress regarding, being surrounded by idiots infatuated with the SOB. Indeed a visceral reaction. ....I suppose in theory if you imagined, you were working on a psych ward, there would be less tendency to react personally. And them belonging on a psych ward is not far from the truth. But I wouldn’t chose to be surrounded by such Trumpster folks either if I had a choice.
....“I got over a lot of FBI paranoia back there”…. Yes there are probably a few decent cops etc. , but in general I think some ‘paranoia’, regarding people in these sorts of professions, is actually common sense.
....“BUT, I cannot simply love hateful beings.” ....Me neither. ....I suppose from a psychology view point one could say that, a teacher that monitors say a school playground, and has to break up fights between kids, probably often feels no hatred, because in her or his mind he classifies them as immature, ‘only kids’ (whose brains aren’t fully myelinated), & that they aren’t getting proper training/attention at home & she isn’t involved in the issue, and possibly most important, feels totally unthreatened.
....Metta (loving kindness) meditation, is not one that works for me. I don’t visualize well at this point. Perhaps it is just a method for softening ego, early in the practice. Some folks do various sorts of volunteer work. There are many methods.
...As I understand the Buddhist teachings, true compassion, can only arise after there is no longer any sense of self as a legitimate reality. This being the case, the sense of the ‘other’, as other dissolves. This being the case, there is no reason or possibility for anger or hatred to arise.
....I do see a lot of my grandchildren, and the sibling rivalry, constantly erupts. And there is whining, acting out and anger and crying. A regular emotional circus. If meditation, and reading about Buddhism didn’t teach me anything, just watching people constantly manufacture their own suffering, would demonstrate the dynamics, of the arising and dissipating of emotion and thought. And the consequences of anger and hatred. And my own limitations as regards any sort of cure. On a moment to moment basis of course I do my best. Seems there is also a lesson in detachment here, and perhaps cultivating inner peace in so far as possible.
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AZZI
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: laughingdog]
#26365245 - 12/06/19 02:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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People like Markos are abusive, possibly, to keep themselves in business. In any case, it's senseless, hateful ad certainly not very intelligent. Proof of the exact thing one is trying to deny.
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laughingdog
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: AZZI]
#26365283 - 12/06/19 03:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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hmmmmmmm.............
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AZZI
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: laughingdog]
#26365295 - 12/06/19 03:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Rofl no, you don't think so?
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AZZI
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: AZZI]
#26365305 - 12/06/19 03:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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"You're stupid newb."
Is the whole of the post.
Such stupidity is contra-indicated, to say the least.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: AZZI]
#26365578 - 12/06/19 05:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AZZI said: People like Markos are abusive, possibly, to keep themselves in business. In any case, it's senseless, hateful ad certainly not very intelligent. Proof of the exact thing one is trying to deny.
"People like Markos?" You do not know Markos newbie. Markos is usually too self-effacing, but you would not know that because you do not know me. YOU on the other hand demonstrate ignorance - of me for one thing and of the rules here for another. Keep you ad hominems to yourself. My "business" is none of your's. It is a part-time practice with 30 years of experience and is intended to be helpful as well as more cost-effective than anyone in my vicinity. I am a much better therapist than I am a businessman since I endeavor to eliminate symptoms in just two sessions. Unprecedented!
So newbie, like a white-belt in a martial arts class, you need to sit in the background, be quiet, observe, and learn before asserting yourself because right now all your words reveal is ignorance, error, and arrogance.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: laughingdog]
#26365632 - 12/06/19 06:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I worked as a crisis intervention specialist (TRUST Specialist) in the nation's 4th largest school system for 27 years, so I can relate to breaking up fights and perceiving that adolescents are far from being socialized, or in Miami-Dade County, enculturated. Whereas I think myelination to be complete by middle school, pre-frontal development certainly is not. I had kids during the whole Nicaraguan fiasco in the late 80's early 90s who had been tortured, forced to watch or perpetrate atrocities, and many other things. I learned compassion as well as detachment in these, and with Haitian kids who were sometimes torture-punished by their parents. Once after being vendetta-raped by two armed assailants in front of the family, a girl was then tortured by her mother (hot peppers inserted into her vagina) for having shamed the family! I was the one who counseled this 14 year old, who then determined that she wanted an abortion (after sustaining a terrible infection from the peppers plus vaginal damage) because she didn't want to bear a rapist's baby. In those days a minor could get an abortion without parental permission.
There were many things like this and I hated the sick, sadistic, often completely illiterate and superstitious parents like this and others but I had to talk with them at times and that required clinical detachment. Compassion was reserved for the young victims. Incest, infant-rape, violence, even murder occurred among junior high and later middle school kids. Often it was obvious that the chronologically adult parents were not anywhere near having fully adult cognitive development, stunted emotional development, and who were also morally retarded, yet they were parents. In order for me to survive in the position for 30 years (federal funding ran out 3 years shy of 30), I had to take care of my own mental health. I had to divert some metta and karuna towards this clinician or leave the position from burnout. I endured until the end of the program.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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AZZI
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Hateful post -- no ad hominems.
No, yours are pure hate and ignorance.
Yours are sheer and pure ignorance.
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AZZI
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: AZZI]
#26365707 - 12/06/19 06:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are proof absolute of the darkness
You purvey.
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AZZI
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: AZZI]
#26365709 - 12/06/19 06:44 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You think your hatred is light,
But it is not.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Try to get psychiatrist to open up [Re: AZZI] 1
#26365748 - 12/06/19 07:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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While these forums is not the place for this, I will only say (before a mod or administrator bans you for a spell) that there is something wrong with your words. Firstly, you are not addressing me, you are addressing your own projection onto my words. You are objecting to something in yourself in other words and projecting your conflict onto me because you don't know Jack about me. Secondly, you are lacking in courtesy and trying (unsuccessfully) insult a total stranger (NOT normal). You have now begun to show your age (or your puerile developmental age) by name-calling, and I do not need to defend my words against your foolish and erroneous accusations because I do not suffer fools for long and I am not your psychotherapist here to be listening to your projections.
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