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Kryptos
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Registered: 11/01/14
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I never said UBI was a bad idea.
I simply reject your argument that UBI is the second coming of Jesus Christ and will fix every possible problem there is.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Kryptos]
#26354096 - 11/30/19 03:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't recall him saying that. 
But I get your point.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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I think good jobs are getting better and more awesome and bad jobs are getting worse.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26354280 - 11/30/19 05:14 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Given the tremendous opposition to socialized medicine, even though a majority of the population supports it, I'm thinking UBI would be a much tougher sell. It would be more feasible in the future when many jobs are replaced. But in the future environmental disaster will be the overarching issue.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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koods
Ribbit



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Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
dreamachine said:
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
dreamachine said: I'm sure it gives a lot of technical information about how it might not effect inflation (technically) but from a strictly business perspective, if corporations know people have more money, naturally they raise their prices no?
When Christmas comes around companies put on sales. A modest UBI would do little to influence price decisions.
we agree on a lot; but this one we're gonna have to agree to disagree; that said i support UBI over no UBI; it would help a lot of people; even if it might have adverse side-effects as well
If you would just read the article I posted it debunks your fears about inflation. Since UBI is being funded with no new money printing there would be no inflation.
That’s not what causes inflation
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Guy1980]
#26354936 - 12/01/19 03:38 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Guy1980 said:
Quote:
dreamachine said: Okay bro... Here's the last thing I'll say on this. If you're a drug dealer, and you're trying to make money, and you find out everyone in the hood just got $1k+ a month you're going to slowly increase your price per gram until customers complain they can't afford it, or you notice a dip in sales. guarantee
but maybe i'm wrong; all i know is i got family that use to sell used cars, and i'm almost 100% certain that if they new everyone had an extra $1k in their pockets they would sell their cars for more money cuz they new those people could afford the extra payment each month...
In your example, all it takes is for a rival to not raise prices. So if someone can make the level of profit they need by selling Product X at $10, and their competitor thinks "Everyone has more cash, I'll sell it for $11", the competitor will find sales are down.
Companies will charge as much as they can, but competition keeps a check on it.
Except more cash on the street would mean more demand, and more demand allows for higher prices.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: koods]
#26354944 - 12/01/19 03:58 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Economic fatalism helped Macnamara reach his grave with more regrets than he could handle in any finity of lifetimes.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#26354957 - 12/01/19 04:18 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: Given the tremendous opposition to socialized medicine, even though a majority of the population supports it, I'm thinking UBI would be a much tougher sell. It would be more feasible in the future when many jobs are replaced. But in the future environmental disaster will be the overarching issue.
A UBI might sell in the US. Problem with the US is that it wouldn't really be in the interest of social improvement and that it would need to be accompanied by a pro-labor attitude that people in this country are very proud of rejecting, or else it's likely to just exacerbate the process of social stratification that's already going on on account of the people who would rather die than see an American labor movement gain any momentum. The problem that the US has isn't that certain economic principles haven't been properly implemented. The problem is that the people who live in the US have a shitty attitude towards each other and, by and large, genuinely believe that (at least on some level) the poor deserve to suffer. People have all sorts of excuses for not giving a shit about their neighbors (beyond whatever contrived bullshit about cowboy hats Kryptos rattled out of his/her skull) and they're proud of the fact that they don't care about each other. The idea of caring for other people just for the sake of community, regardless of whether or not you actually like those people on a personal level, is totally alien to most people to the point that they feel more comfortable ridiculing the idea than baking a loaf of bread for the near invalid old lady down the street. American have all sorts of dumb-fucking reasons for why they should treat each other like crap, and it's basically just Balakanized, bitter, tribal bullshit. We love talking shit about each other, and we don't like people. We sort of like the imprint that people leave through the proxy of computation (pending how favorable we weigh against it) but people will literally trip over their own selves to avoid actually dealing with each other in meat-space.
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YangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26355189 - 12/01/19 09:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
I simply reject your argument that UBI is the second coming of Jesus Christ .
Ok I never claimed that I just proved to you though that it does improve peoples lives that is something to work for and not be rejected simply because you don't like the idea of everyone getting a small stipend.
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YangSupporter
Stranger
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: koods]
#26355191 - 12/01/19 09:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Guy1980 said:
Quote:
dreamachine said: Okay bro... Here's the last thing I'll say on this. If you're a drug dealer, and you're trying to make money, and you find out everyone in the hood just got $1k+ a month you're going to slowly increase your price per gram until customers complain they can't afford it, or you notice a dip in sales. guarantee
but maybe i'm wrong; all i know is i got family that use to sell used cars, and i'm almost 100% certain that if they new everyone had an extra $1k in their pockets they would sell their cars for more money cuz they new those people could afford the extra payment each month...
In your example, all it takes is for a rival to not raise prices. So if someone can make the level of profit they need by selling Product X at $10, and their competitor thinks "Everyone has more cash, I'll sell it for $11", the competitor will find sales are down.
Companies will charge as much as they can, but competition keeps a check on it.
Except more cash on the street would mean more demand, and more demand allows for higher prices.
Not necessarily Koods https://medium.com/basic-income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-income-just-cause-massive-inflation-fe71d69f15e7
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,837
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: chibiabos]
#26355264 - 12/01/19 09:57 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
chibiabos said: People have all sorts of excuses for not giving a shit about their neighbors (beyond whatever contrived bullshit about cowboy hats Kryptos rattled out of his/her skull) and they're proud of the fact that they don't care about each other.
That was me with the cowboy hat thing, but in all seriousness, you aren't entirely wrong. You might be seeing things as a little worse than they are, but the general principle is sound. That being said, I stopped the other day even though I was late in order to help a guy load a stump into his pickup. He never would have gotten it himself. Not the most selfless act ever, but a far cry from treating strangers like crap. I've pulled over to check on people who crashed their cars with the expectation of having to render first aid. I've injected myself into a domestic dispute on the street and gotten death threats for the trouble. I'm not trying to make you think I'm any better than anyone else, on the contrary, I'm trying to show that it isn't as cut and dried as youre trying to make it. I've also driven right past a car that got hit by a semi and burst immediately into flames. I've stepped over and ignored many a bum. I've committed numerous petty road rage acts including tossing a fast food drink on someone's windshield (double whammy for littering).
I guess what I'm saying is that some people care about each other sometimes and there is even a possibility that with some of the cutthroat nature of our existence mitigated( by UBI?) more people might find the time and inclination to care about each other more of the time
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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YangSupporter
Stranger
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: ballsalsa] 2
#26355297 - 12/01/19 10:14 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea Ball peoples reasoning and decision making goes down with stress and most stress in the US is related to paying bills. When people could pay all of there basic bills I am positive you will see an increase in kindness and better behavior as the studies I linked showed.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,837
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Don't misunderstand me. While I am not against the idea of UBI, I don't think it likely to curb much of society's ills. It's a band-aid on a bullet wound.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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YangSupporter
Stranger
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: ballsalsa]
#26355351 - 12/01/19 10:50 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Don't misunderstand me. While I am not against the idea of UBI, I don't think it likely to curb much of society's ills. It's a band-aid on a bullet wound.
Its not perfect but I believe it is superior to many other assistance programs that some poor people get.
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: I simply reject your argument that UBI is the second coming of Jesus Christ .
Ok I never claimed that I just proved to you though that it does improve peoples lives that is something to work for and not be rejected simply because you don't like the idea of everyone getting a small stipend.
You have proven less than a quarter of what you claimed. Would you like me to link that graphic you posted, next to the articles you posted that supported 3 of the 14 bullet points?
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said: Don't misunderstand me. While I am not against the idea of UBI, I don't think it likely to curb much of society's ills. It's a band-aid on a bullet wound.
Its not perfect but I believe it is superior to many other assistance programs that some poor people get.
Why are you limiting yourself to "meh, it's a little better than literally nothing" instead of trying to solve the underlying issues?
It will lead to a violent rejection and backlash ala Obamacare--why not at least make it worth it?
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Morel Guy
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Kryptos]
#26363126 - 12/05/19 02:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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UBI stinks. What we need is love from the Govt.
I have no idea what people need nor want. Things are not that bad but yep jobs are usually pretty low on the totem pole. Not everyone is college material. It used to be easier to be trained on the job by a professional. These days employers want experience and are very strict on records.
I do not believe we can be a society that locks everyone up, yet fails to employ minor traffic violators.
If the govt fails to support people that they've mares for life, crime will only increase drastically. Do we really want to be a nation that locks people up more than the Soviets or Chinese?
Hard to speak of freedoms when the politics are all but that.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Morel Guy]
#26363928 - 12/05/19 09:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Morel Guy said: Do we really want to be a nation that locks people up more than the Soviets or Chinese?
We already are, and have been for like, two decades.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,837
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Kryptos]
#26363937 - 12/05/19 09:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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There's big money in it
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: ballsalsa]
#26363949 - 12/05/19 09:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know, prison stocks have been doing great lately. Especially when diaper don floated the idea of using private facilities for migrants.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,837
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: Kryptos]
#26363958 - 12/05/19 09:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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isn't the incarcerated segment of the population approaching 10% or some such?
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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