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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26350830 - 11/28/19 04:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Its possible that UBI could cause inflation(cost-push), but it would be negligible compared to others, that do.....like reducing interest rates (demand pull). Funny, you never hear pundits bitching about inflation when rates get cut.
Interest rates are used primarily to control inflation. Inflation is usually in control if you are lowering rates.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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FungiMaster
Entrepreneur


Registered: 10/31/19
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: koods]
#26350988 - 11/28/19 06:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well inflation is real. Not sure th job market is worse really.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: koods]
#26351086 - 11/28/19 08:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree , but there seems to be a stigma that a negative income tax would cause inflation,.... That's just like every governement program, it is socialism dude.....just like that type of stigma. Reducing rates create more inflation....definitive proof. Just got 3.74fixed 30y refi.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (11/28/19 08:08 PM)
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living_failure
unworthy



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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: SirTripAlot] 2
#26351254 - 11/28/19 11:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Of course american jobs are getting worse, and european ones too. Hindi and south american are getting better. It is called globalization.
Just choose a job and compare your productivity and salary with a chinnese guy. If you earn more or he works more, you are not competitive enough and should be unemployed.
I work with .Net products, there are a lot of movement of software factories being killed and revived in India
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dreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
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Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
dreamachine said: I'm sure it gives a lot of technical information about how it might not effect inflation (technically) but from a strictly business perspective, if corporations know people have more money, naturally they raise their prices no?
When Christmas comes around companies put on sales. A modest UBI would do little to influence price decisions.
we agree on a lot; but this one we're gonna have to agree to disagree; that said i support UBI over no UBI; it would help a lot of people; even if it might have adverse side-effects as well
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YangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: dreamachine]
#26352132 - 11/29/19 02:09 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dreamachine said:
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
dreamachine said: I'm sure it gives a lot of technical information about how it might not effect inflation (technically) but from a strictly business perspective, if corporations know people have more money, naturally they raise their prices no?
When Christmas comes around companies put on sales. A modest UBI would do little to influence price decisions.
we agree on a lot; but this one we're gonna have to agree to disagree; that said i support UBI over no UBI; it would help a lot of people; even if it might have adverse side-effects as well
If you would just read the article I posted it debunks your fears about inflation. Since UBI is being funded with no new money printing there would be no inflation.
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dreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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See I'm not really talking about inflation though. I'm more referring to capitalistic business practices. I know you like Yang a lot and support his ideas, but you gotta look at it from all sides. If businesses know people have more money, a lot of them will increase the prices of their products simply because they know their customers can afford it.
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YangSupporter
Stranger
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Posts: 1,696
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: dreamachine] 1
#26352163 - 11/29/19 02:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dreamachine said: See I'm not really talking about inflation though. I'm more referring to capitalistic business practices. I know you like Yang a lot and support his ideas, but you gotta look at it from all sides. If businesses know people have more money, a lot of them will increase the prices of their products simply because they know their customers can afford it.
Yea I get that you think that but it just isn't true.
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dreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Okay bro... Here's the last thing I'll say on this. If you're a drug dealer, and you're trying to make money, and you find out everyone in the hood just got $1k+ a month you're going to slowly increase your price per gram until customers complain they can't afford it, or you notice a dip in sales. guarantee
but maybe i'm wrong; all i know is i got family that use to sell used cars, and i'm almost 100% certain that if they new everyone had an extra $1k in their pockets they would sell their cars for more money cuz they new those people could afford the extra payment each month...
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



Registered: 03/16/17
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: dreamachine]
#26352188 - 11/29/19 02:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why on Earth would you compare selling cars to selling drugs?
There's also a big risk of employers using universal basic income as an excuse to never raise wages. A universal basic income might actually enable even more flagrant exploitation of workers if the impetus ends up being more or less to mollify them and pad out some contrived metrics. The Finns didn't experiment with universal basic income because it fit into some principle of social pseudoscience. They did it because they actually cared about the people who they lived with. Americans treat each other like shit compared to most other people. American culture is also pretty hostile to labor movements and ideas like workers' rights, whereas other countries that might do the same thing are already geared to prevent employers from treating their workers like a commodity.
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dreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: chibiabos]
#26352193 - 11/29/19 02:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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sales is sales my bro; i use to sell vacuums door to door and music cds too. lmao
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YangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: chibiabos] 1
#26352279 - 11/29/19 03:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
chibiabos said:
There's also a big risk of employers using universal basic income as an excuse to never raise wages. A universal basic income might actually enable even more flagrant exploitation of workers
Actually UBI allows workers to walk away from exploitative jobs. If the workers want to unionize UBI is a built in strike fund. I think UBI would force employers to treat workers better since everyone now has an income floor.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



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UBI doesn't have any inherent consequences and more or less the same idea has had exactly that effect (among other things). UBI for the sake of preserving the society that Americans have right now won't change the society that we have. There aren't any natural economic forces that will create a better society, if only we implement some disembodied principles the right way.
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dreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: chibiabos]
#26352321 - 11/29/19 04:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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All and all I hope some form of UBI get's implemented. Something tells me it will have to be implemented in the coming years as automation continues to replace human workers.
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YangSupporter
Stranger
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: chibiabos] 1
#26352333 - 11/29/19 04:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
chibiabos said: UBI doesn't have any inherent consequences and more or less the same idea has had exactly that effect (among other things). UBI for the sake of preserving the society that Americans have right now won't change the society that we have. There aren't any natural economic forces that will create a better society, if only we implement some disembodied principles the right way.
This is a good point but I think UBI is a step in the right direction. It certainly is not a panacea for all of societies problems but I do think that if every citizen was guaranteed a UBI we would have a better society.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



Registered: 03/16/17
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Quote:
YangSupporter said: I do think that if every citizen was guaranteed a UBI we would have a better society.
There would be a UBI in a better society. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be tried, but it's not a mechanism of any real change in and of itself (nor is it by proxy). A UBI can fail to make things better and can make them worse if social factors allow it to. It might not be a big, huge problem in societies where some sense of community and neighborhood is valued (like in Finland), but Americans hate their neighbors and basically live by values of an autarchist cult of markets.
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dreamachine


Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: chibiabos]
#26352414 - 11/29/19 04:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not all Americans hate their neighbors. However the psy-op campaign of "dont talk to strangers" has succeeded in many many places; especially high population density areas I think. There are places in America where people are friendly to each other. Here in Hawaii if you wave/shaka at a stranger 9/10 they return the favor.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: dreamachine]
#26352421 - 11/29/19 04:53 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hawaii is pretty typical of volcanic, tropical archipelagos of the United States.
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sh4d0ws
LSx


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 12,086
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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: dreamachine] 1
#26352426 - 11/29/19 04:55 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmmm
336?
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: American jobs are getting worse [Re: YangSupporter] 1
#26352606 - 11/29/19 06:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
dreamachine said: See I'm not really talking about inflation though. I'm more referring to capitalistic business practices. I know you like Yang a lot and support his ideas, but you gotta look at it from all sides. If businesses know people have more money, a lot of them will increase the prices of their products simply because they know their customers can afford it.
Yea I get that you think that but it just isn't true. 
Got a source for any of that, or is this more "UBI FIXES EVERYTHING" bullshit?
Because ths science says all it does is make people marginally happier.
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