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dreamachine
Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
#26349280 - 11/27/19 06:27 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,722
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 9 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: dreamachine]
#26349286 - 11/27/19 06:29 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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It’s probably a good business.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] 1
#26349327 - 11/27/19 06:47 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
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Pinkerton said: With the right app, I'm sure it's plausible.
So you get to participate in democracy as long as you have the right technology
Or a library if you don't have internet access.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
Stranger
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26349347 - 11/27/19 06:54 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Again, we average 15,000 bills per year, with 15 pages each.
225,000 pages.
A direct democracy requires every citizen to read the equivalent of the entire Harry Potter series every week, in legalese. Which nobody will do, which means whoever is the highest bidder in the propaganda war wins.
Sure, direct democracy would be nice for the big bill, like Medicare for All.
How many people do you think will be able to stomach the 20 or so bills that baseline fund the government?
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dreamachine
Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 663
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos]
#26349350 - 11/27/19 06:55 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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meltdowner
Total Noob
Registered: 09/06/17
Posts: 1,457
Loc: New York City
Last seen: 8 months, 28 days
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26349483 - 11/27/19 08:32 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
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meltdowner said:
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Pinkerton said: I find it cool you agree but that makes me wonder what you're doing here in the politics forum.
You take pride in Trump. He doesn't take pride in you. You're a petty vote for Trump, a puppet at best.
Take pride? Who said that?
You're out of line to call me a puppet. You don't know my reasoning.
Weren't you recently banned for being a puppet?
The mods acknowledged they made a mistake. It's clearly not a puppet account if you look at IPs.
-------------------- I'm a Lightweight. I like to eat like two caps at a time.
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Kryptos
Stranger
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: meltdowner]
#26349497 - 11/27/19 08:40 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok Sesame Street.
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living_failure
unworthy
Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 352
Loc: spain, madrid
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos]
#26349885 - 11/28/19 03:23 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I love the idea of direct democracy with apps. You could also just "join" a party to vote for you everytime. It is more democratic that directly choosing a party to do that for you.
I do not believe in democracy but i am a software analyst and this idea will give a lot of work to my kind.
Also, what is the left for you? ,and the right?
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Brian Jones
Club 27
Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,418
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 21 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26349998 - 11/28/19 06:05 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.
The Democrats have always been the party of war (except Carter). I think being the party of hate is a normal response under these circumstances. It might not be functional, but it is to be expected. It's not like not being the party of hate ever got us anywhere either.
Either way it was a good song by The Clash.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#26350165 - 11/28/19 08:37 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.
The Democrats have always been the party of war (except Carter). I think being the party of hate is a normal response under these circumstances. It might not be functional, but it is to be expected. It's not like not being the party of hate ever got us anywhere either.
Either way it was a good song by The Clash.
What circumstances exactly? Trump won the election and if his haters want him out, they need to vote him out.
So much for the moral high ground when you justify the very thing you're supposedly fighting against.
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koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,722
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 9 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: qman]
#26350182 - 11/28/19 08:46 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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What he was doing with Ukraine was blatantly corrupt. He should at least be impeached, then we can have a trial in the senate where his inner circle will be forced to testify. You can’t ignore a supoena issued by the Chief Justice of the US.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,568
Last seen: 6 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
#26350343 - 11/28/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: What he was doing with Ukraine was blatantly corrupt. He should at least be impeached, then we can have a trial in the senate where his inner circle will be forced to testify. You can’t ignore a supoena issued by the Chief Justice of the US.
Lol, sure you can!
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,471
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: YangSupporter] 2
#26356575 - 12/02/19 02:02 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
Pinkerton said: Fal owned you.
Yea Fal knows his stuff
That only makes statements like the one below even more idiotic and suspicious: "It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office. "
(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology. (2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism. (3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.
Just another example of Falcon91Wolvrn03 blatantly spreading right-wing talking points under the guise of non-partisan criticism, yet coincidentally and completely failing to extend those same criticisms to the right-wing.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26356602 - 12/02/19 03:07 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
Pinkerton said: Fal owned you.
Yea Fal knows his stuff
That only makes statements like the one below even more idiotic and suspicious: "It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office. "
(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.
Yes. I should have said the modern Democratic party, but I guess I've gotten so used to associating the Democrats with the left.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.
True, but I don't think it's to the extent they support militarism today.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.
I'm not denying it. I was expressing my disappointment with what used to be my party.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Just another example of Falcon91Wolvrn03 blatantly spreading right-wing talking points under the guise of non-partisan criticism, yet coincidentally and completely failing to extend those same criticisms to the right-wing.
Again, I think everyone here knows I dislike the right. If I need to come out and say the right is also deserving of criticism, of course I'll say that.
Again, I'm just disappointed in where I think the Democrats are going.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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YangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26356773 - 12/02/19 07:06 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
Pinkerton said: Fal owned you.
Yea Fal knows his stuff
That only makes statements like the one below even more idiotic and suspicious: "It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office. "
(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology. (2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism. (3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.
Just another example of Falcon91Wolvrn03 blatantly spreading right-wing talking points under the guise of non-partisan criticism, yet coincidentally and completely failing to extend those same criticisms to the right-wing.
Alright the Dems are neoliberals by and large however there are factions of more left wing people attempting to take over the Dems see Bernie Sanders AOC etc. In a US context the dems are the left wing party and they hold the keys to real change.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,471
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26356837 - 12/02/19 08:19 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.
Yes. I should have said the modern Democratic party, but I guess I've gotten so used to associating the Democrats with the left.
Yrs it should, because otherwise you only assist with strengthening an incorrect association.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.
True, but I don't think it's to the extent they support militarism today.
And what are you basing that opinion on? For example, this 2019 vote on ending support for the war in Yemen appears to support the opposite conclusion: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll083.xml
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.
I'm not denying it. I was expressing my disappointment with what used to be my party.
Again, I think everyone here knows I dislike the right. If I need to come out and say the right is also deserving of criticism, of course I'll say that.
And ut's my opinion that your character on this subforum has become increasingly associated with uncritically sharing political takes that very closely mirror alt-right talking points. I can't speak for the entire board, but I think your perception that everyone here automatically knows you dislike the right without you having to communicate the fact might be wrong.
Statements like "the left has become the party of hate and war", using the rather than an, implies that these qualities apply only to left and not the right. If you are going to use sloppy language like that expect it to be taken at face value and conclusions made from your omissions. If you want to avoid being perceived as a casualty of alt-right propaganda, either be more precise in the language you use to criticize both the Democratic party and left-wing in general, or be more explicit in extending that criticism to the Republican party and/or the right-wing in general.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,471
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: YangSupporter]
#26356839 - 12/02/19 08:21 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.
Alright the Dems are neoliberals by and large however there are factions of more left wing people attempting to take over the Dems see Bernie Sanders AOC etc. In a US context the dems are the left wing party and they hold the keys to real change.
Can you explain thr apparent change of heart you've had since you made the post below?
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.
Its not the left its the moderate right wing. The US has two right wing parties who hate each other both are not in the peoples best interests.
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YangSupporter
Stranger
Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 1,696
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] 2
#26356842 - 12/02/19 08:24 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.
Alright the Dems are neoliberals by and large however there are factions of more left wing people attempting to take over the Dems see Bernie Sanders AOC etc. In a US context the dems are the left wing party and they hold the keys to real change.
Can you explain thr apparent change of heart you've had since you made the post below?
Quote:
YangSupporter said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.
Its not the left its the moderate right wing. The US has two right wing parties who hate each other both are not in the peoples best interests.
No change of heart just pointing out the American context of our political parties. In general though they are both right wing.
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 6 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26356852 - 12/02/19 08:42 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.
Yes. I should have said the modern Democratic party, but I guess I've gotten so used to associating the Democrats with the left.
Yrs it should, because otherwise you only assist with strengthening an incorrect association.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.
True, but I don't think it's to the extent they support militarism today.
And what are you basing that opinion on? For example, this 2019 vote on ending support for the war in Yemen appears to support the opposite conclusion: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll083.xml
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: (3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.
I'm not denying it. I was expressing my disappointment with what used to be my party.
Again, I think everyone here knows I dislike the right. If I need to come out and say the right is also deserving of criticism, of course I'll say that.
And ut's my opinion that your character on this subforum has become increasingly associated with uncritically sharing political takes that very closely mirror alt-right talking points. I can't speak for the entire board, but I think your perception that everyone here automatically knows you dislike the right without you having to communicate the fact might be wrong.
Statements like "the left has become the party of hate and war", using the rather than an, implies that these qualities apply only to left and not the right. If you are going to use sloppy language like that expect it to be taken at face value and conclusions made from your omissions. If you want to avoid being perceived as a casualty of alt-right propaganda, either be more precise in the language you use to criticize both the Democratic party and left-wing in general, or be more explicit in extending that criticism to the Republican party and/or the right-wing in general.
That's right Fal, every time you're being intellectually honest by calling out the left and their hypocrisies, you need to put a disclaimer in the post that clearly states it doesn't mean you're supporting alt-right talking points. You can never be to careful today, being intellectually honest in this game of left vs right is very dangerous stuff today. You better pick a team and stick with it to avoid any confusion or accusations in the future. It's also a good idea to make sure those opinions are in line with the community standards, in other words, get back into line.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,989
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: qman] 2
#26356956 - 12/02/19 10:16 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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It is important to be intellectually honest. It is also important to not inadvertently carry water for right wing scumsuckers. Its a fine line.
-------------------- Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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