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InvisiblePinkerton
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Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere * 1
    #26348387 - 11/27/19 11:45 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Keep jerking off. That's all there's to it.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #26348390 - 11/27/19 11:49 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

I agree, I'm not even Republican, I just love Trump and dislike what the Democratic party is standing for right now.  I voted Obama twice (regretfully).

Trump 2020!  Don't believe the media lies!


--------------------
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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: meltdowner]
    #26348404 - 11/27/19 11:54 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

I find it cool you agree but that makes me wonder what you're doing here in the politics forum.

You take pride in Trump. He doesn't take pride in you. You're a petty vote for Trump, a puppet at best.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: meltdowner] * 5
    #26348418 - 11/27/19 11:58 AM (7 months, 10 days ago)

It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26348445 - 11/27/19 12:08 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)



--------------------
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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26348454 - 11/27/19 12:11 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:




Quote:

koods said:





You just can't help yourselves. It's like watching ping pong.


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #26348459 - 11/27/19 12:13 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:



Its not the left its the moderate right wing. The US has two right wing parties who hate each other both are not in the peoples best interests.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26348481 - 11/27/19 12:23 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

You should probably support the less right wing then


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 1
    #26348484 - 11/27/19 12:24 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
You should probably support the less right wing then



I will support left wing populists.


--------------------
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Onlinekoods
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26348497 - 11/27/19 12:29 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

And if there isn’t one, you will support the hard right billionaire populist who’s in the pocket of corporate interests just to prove a point? Brilliant.

I guess yang supporters are just as toxic as some Bernie supporters. Thankfully there aren’t very many of you.


--------------------
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Edited by koods (11/27/19 12:30 PM)


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26348502 - 11/27/19 12:31 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Have you gone gay yet to prove a point to women?


--------------------
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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #26348572 - 11/27/19 12:56 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
I find it cool you agree but that makes me wonder what you're doing here in the politics forum.

You take pride in Trump. He doesn't take pride in you. You're a petty vote for Trump, a puppet at best.




Take pride?  Who said that?

You're out of line to call me a puppet.  You don't know my reasoning.


--------------------
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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: meltdowner]
    #26348600 - 11/27/19 01:05 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
I agree, I'm not even Republican, I just love Trump




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 2
    #26348616 - 11/27/19 01:15 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Have you gone gay yet to prove a point to women?



I must have missed a post.  What point would that be?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 2
    #26348623 - 11/27/19 01:20 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:





A single post from a single retard doesn't prove anything.

I'll bet I can find an equally hateful post from the left.  Are you up for a signature bet?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton] * 3
    #26348646 - 11/27/19 01:32 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #26348702 - 11/27/19 02:04 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

:thumbup:  :awesomenod:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26348705 - 11/27/19 02:05 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Have you gone gay yet to prove a point to women?



I must have missed a post.  What point would that be?




Well, the leader of the Proud Boys stuck a dildo in his own ass on live TV to prove...I think it was that he wasn't gay? Might have been that he wasn't a homophobe. I didn't really understand the point of that either.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: meltdowner]
    #26348706 - 11/27/19 02:06 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Quote:

Pinkerton said:
I find it cool you agree but that makes me wonder what you're doing here in the politics forum.

You take pride in Trump. He doesn't take pride in you. You're a petty vote for Trump, a puppet at best.




Take pride?  Who said that?

You're out of line to call me a puppet.  You don't know my reasoning.




Weren't you recently banned for being a puppet?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26348726 - 11/27/19 02:16 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:




The left has a party? This is delightful news.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26348731 - 11/27/19 02:17 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Even if they don't the only thing "both parties are the same!" nonsense accomplishes is moving the Us further right.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26348752 - 11/27/19 02:32 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Have you gone gay yet to prove a point to women?



I must have missed a post.  What point would that be?




It wasn’t directed to you


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26348756 - 11/27/19 02:34 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:





A single post from a single retard doesn't prove anything.

I'll bet I can find an equally hateful post from the left.  Are you up for a signature bet?




Do you post on alt right boards yet?


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 3
    #26348758 - 11/27/19 02:35 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Fal owned you. :lol:


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26348767 - 11/27/19 02:38 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Jealous?


--------------------
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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26348773 - 11/27/19 02:42 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)



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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26348790 - 11/27/19 02:49 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

No


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #26348799 - 11/27/19 02:53 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Fal owned you. :lol:



Yea Fal knows his stuff


--------------------
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Offlinedreamachine


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton] * 2
    #26349096 - 11/27/19 05:13 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:




This sums it up pretty damn well if you ask me. Especially as our current system is concerned. Maybe if a righteous person actually got elected things would change, however, one person cannot fix a broke system like ours. I'm afraid one of the only ways we will see real change is if representative democracy is replace with direct democracy. Till then corruption will continue to run rampant and the people will continue to be under-represented if they are represented at all.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: dreamachine]
    #26349147 - 11/27/19 05:38 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

afraid one of the only ways we will see real change is if representative democracy is replace with direct democracy.




No no no. That would be the worst thing we could do


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26349160 - 11/27/19 05:40 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

How so?


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: dreamachine]
    #26349176 - 11/27/19 05:47 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

The fact that that system of government exists nowhere on earth


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Offlinedreamachine


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26349185 - 11/27/19 05:51 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Didn't it exist in Greece for a time? I'm sure it's existed in other places as well. Doesn't it also exist, at least in part, in many states in the US alone?


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: dreamachine]
    #26349186 - 11/27/19 05:51 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
How so?



Direct democracy denies benevolent and smart people power when the masses decide. Besides it will get corrup in short time.

Benevolent dictatorship is the bee's knees.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26349189 - 11/27/19 05:52 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

:yeahthatsfunny:


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: dreamachine]
    #26349199 - 11/27/19 05:55 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Didn't it exist in Greece for a time? I'm sure it's existed in other places as well. Doesn't it also exist, at least in part, in many states in the US alone?




You think the US should be run through ballot initiatives? Do we need to have an election for every decision that needs to be made? It’s absurd


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 2
    #26349204 - 11/27/19 05:57 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

With the right app, I'm sure it's plausible.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26349214 - 11/27/19 06:02 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Yeah it doesn't seem that difficult to me. That said I do understand your point. Perhaps a compromise could be enacted where each state has a single representative to handle all the bullshit, while simultaneously each state could first hold ballot measures for their own state to pass things (i.e. legalization of weed) and then they could have their state representative take the ballot on the federal level, and if 26 states support the measure it is passed into federal law. Or something along those lines.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26349271 - 11/27/19 06:24 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
With the right app, I'm sure it's plausible.




So you get to participate in democracy as long as you have the right technology


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: dreamachine]
    #26349275 - 11/27/19 06:26 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Yeah it doesn't seem that difficult to me. That said I do understand your point. Perhaps a compromise could be enacted where each state has a single representative to handle all the bullshit, while simultaneously each state could first hold ballot measures for their own state to pass things (i.e. legalization of weed) and then they could have their state representative take the ballot on the federal level, and if 26 states support the measure it is passed into federal law. Or something along those lines.




So when we vote to turn your land into a resort for gay bears, you will be fine with the will of the people?


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26349280 - 11/27/19 06:27 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

:sexymeow:


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: dreamachine]
    #26349286 - 11/27/19 06:29 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

It’s probably a good business.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 1
    #26349327 - 11/27/19 06:47 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Pinkerton said:
With the right app, I'm sure it's plausible.




So you get to participate in democracy as long as you have the right technology



Or a library if you don't have internet access.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26349347 - 11/27/19 06:54 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Again, we average 15,000 bills per year, with 15 pages each.

225,000 pages.

A direct democracy requires every citizen to read the equivalent of the entire Harry Potter series every week, in legalese. Which nobody will do, which means whoever is the highest bidder in the propaganda war wins.

Sure, direct democracy would be nice for the big bill, like Medicare for All.

How many people do you think will be able to stomach the 20 or so bills that baseline fund the government?


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos]
    #26349350 - 11/27/19 06:55 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

:mindblown:


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26349483 - 11/27/19 08:32 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:
Quote:

Pinkerton said:
I find it cool you agree but that makes me wonder what you're doing here in the politics forum.

You take pride in Trump. He doesn't take pride in you. You're a petty vote for Trump, a puppet at best.




Take pride?  Who said that?

You're out of line to call me a puppet.  You don't know my reasoning.




Weren't you recently banned for being a puppet?




The mods acknowledged they made a mistake.  It's clearly not a puppet account if you look at IPs.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: meltdowner]
    #26349497 - 11/27/19 08:40 PM (7 months, 10 days ago)

Ok Sesame Street.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos]
    #26349885 - 11/28/19 03:23 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

I love the idea of direct democracy with apps. You could also just "join" a party to vote for you everytime. It is more democratic that directly choosing a party to do that for you.


I do not believe in democracy but i am a software analyst and this idea will give a lot of work to my kind.


Also, what is the left for you?
,and the right?


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26349998 - 11/28/19 06:05 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:




The Democrats have always been the party of war (except Carter).  I think being the party of hate is a normal response under these circumstances. It might not be functional, but it is to be expected. It's not like not being the party of hate ever got us anywhere either.

Either way it was a good song by The Clash.


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26350165 - 11/28/19 08:37 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:




The Democrats have always been the party of war (except Carter).  I think being the party of hate is a normal response under these circumstances. It might not be functional, but it is to be expected. It's not like not being the party of hate ever got us anywhere either.

Either way it was a good song by The Clash.




What circumstances exactly?  Trump won the election and if his haters want him out, they need to vote him out.  :shrug:

So much for the moral high ground when you justify the very thing you're supposedly fighting against. :lol:


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: qman]
    #26350182 - 11/28/19 08:46 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

What he was doing with Ukraine was blatantly corrupt. He should at least be impeached, then we can have a trial in the senate where his inner circle will be forced to testify. You can’t ignore a supoena issued by the Chief Justice of the US.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26350343 - 11/28/19 10:17 AM (7 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
What he was doing with Ukraine was blatantly corrupt. He should at least be impeached, then we can have a trial in the senate where his inner circle will be forced to testify. You can’t ignore a supoena issued by the Chief Justice of the US.




Lol, sure you can!


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: YangSupporter] * 2
    #26356575 - 12/02/19 02:02 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Fal owned you. :lol:



Yea Fal knows his stuff



That only makes statements like the one below even more idiotic and suspicious:
"It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:"

(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.
(2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.
(3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.

Just another example of Falcon91Wolvrn03 blatantly spreading right-wing talking points under the guise of non-partisan criticism, yet coincidentally and completely failing to extend those same criticisms to the right-wing.


--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26356602 - 12/02/19 03:07 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Fal owned you. :lol:



Yea Fal knows his stuff



That only makes statements like the one below even more idiotic and suspicious:
"It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:"

(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.



Yes.  I should have said the modern Democratic party, but I guess I've gotten so used to associating the Democrats with the left.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.



True, but I don't think it's to the extent they support militarism today. 

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.



I'm not denying it.  I was expressing my disappointment with what used to be my party.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Just another example of Falcon91Wolvrn03 blatantly spreading right-wing talking points under the guise of non-partisan criticism, yet coincidentally and completely failing to extend those same criticisms to the right-wing.



Again, I think everyone here knows I dislike the right.  If I need to come out and say the right is also deserving of criticism, of course I'll say that.


Again, I'm just disappointed in where I think the Democrats are going.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26356773 - 12/02/19 07:06 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Fal owned you. :lol:



Yea Fal knows his stuff



That only makes statements like the one below even more idiotic and suspicious:
"It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:"

(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.
(2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.
(3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.

Just another example of Falcon91Wolvrn03 blatantly spreading right-wing talking points under the guise of non-partisan criticism, yet coincidentally and completely failing to extend those same criticisms to the right-wing.



Alright the Dems are neoliberals by and large however there are factions of more left wing people attempting to take over the Dems see Bernie Sanders AOC etc. In a US context the dems are the left wing party and they hold the keys to real change.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26356837 - 12/02/19 08:19 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.



Yes.  I should have said the modern Democratic party, but I guess I've gotten so used to associating the Democrats with the left.



Yrs it should, because otherwise you only assist with strengthening an incorrect association.


Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.



True, but I don't think it's to the extent they support militarism today.



And what are you basing that opinion on? For example, this 2019 vote on ending support for the war in Yemen appears to support the opposite conclusion: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll083.xml


Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.



I'm not denying it.  I was expressing my disappointment with what used to be my party.

Again, I think everyone here knows I dislike the right.  If I need to come out and say the right is also deserving of criticism, of course I'll say that.




And ut's my opinion that your character on this subforum has become increasingly associated with uncritically sharing political takes that very closely mirror alt-right talking points. I can't speak for the entire board, but I think your perception that everyone here automatically knows you dislike the right without you having to communicate the fact might be wrong.

Statements like "the left has become the party of hate and war", using the rather than an, implies that these qualities apply only to left and not the right. If you are going to use sloppy language like that expect it to be taken at face value and conclusions made from your omissions. If you want to avoid being perceived as a casualty of alt-right propaganda, either be more precise in the language you use to criticize both the Democratic party and left-wing in general, or be more explicit in extending that criticism to the Republican party and/or the right-wing in general.


--------------------


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26356839 - 12/02/19 08:21 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.



Alright the Dems are neoliberals by and large however there are factions of more left wing people attempting to take over the Dems see Bernie Sanders AOC etc. In a US context the dems are the left wing party and they hold the keys to real change.



Can you explain thr apparent change of heart you've had since you made the post below?

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:



Its not the left its the moderate right wing. The US has two right wing parties who hate each other both are not in the peoples best interests.




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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #26356842 - 12/02/19 08:24 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.



Alright the Dems are neoliberals by and large however there are factions of more left wing people attempting to take over the Dems see Bernie Sanders AOC etc. In a US context the dems are the left wing party and they hold the keys to real change.



Can you explain thr apparent change of heart you've had since you made the post below?

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.  :shrug:



Its not the left its the moderate right wing. The US has two right wing parties who hate each other both are not in the peoples best interests.






No change of heart just pointing out the American context of our political parties. In general though they are both right wing.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26356852 - 12/02/19 08:42 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(1) The Democratic party is much closer to right-wing neoliberalism than any form of left-wing ideology.



Yes.  I should have said the modern Democratic party, but I guess I've gotten so used to associating the Democrats with the left.



Yrs it should, because otherwise you only assist with strengthening an incorrect association.


Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(2) The Democratic party has always supported US militarism.



True, but I don't think it's to the extent they support militarism today.



And what are you basing that opinion on? For example, this 2019 vote on ending support for the war in Yemen appears to support the opposite conclusion: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll083.xml


Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
(3) Conveniently ignores the hateful rhetoric associated with Trumpism.



I'm not denying it.  I was expressing my disappointment with what used to be my party.

Again, I think everyone here knows I dislike the right.  If I need to come out and say the right is also deserving of criticism, of course I'll say that.




And ut's my opinion that your character on this subforum has become increasingly associated with uncritically sharing political takes that very closely mirror alt-right talking points. I can't speak for the entire board, but I think your perception that everyone here automatically knows you dislike the right without you having to communicate the fact might be wrong.

Statements like "the left has become the party of hate and war", using the rather than an, implies that these qualities apply only to left and not the right. If you are going to use sloppy language like that expect it to be taken at face value and conclusions made from your omissions. If you want to avoid being perceived as a casualty of alt-right propaganda, either be more precise in the language you use to criticize both the Democratic party and left-wing in general, or be more explicit in extending that criticism to the Republican party and/or the right-wing in general.




That's right Fal, every time you're being intellectually honest by calling out the left and their hypocrisies, you need to put a disclaimer in the post that clearly states it doesn't mean you're supporting alt-right talking points. You can never be to careful today, being intellectually honest in this game of left vs right is very dangerous stuff today. You better pick a team and stick with it to avoid any confusion or accusations in the future. It's also a good idea to make sure those opinions are in line with the community standards, in other words, get back into line.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: qman] * 2
    #26356956 - 12/02/19 10:16 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

It is important to be intellectually honest.
It is also important to not inadvertently carry water for right wing scumsuckers.
Its a fine line.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #26356990 - 12/02/19 10:36 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
It is important to be intellectually honest.
It is also important to not inadvertently carry water for right wing scumsuckers.
Its a fine line.




No, it really isn't "a fine line", it only triggers people that very defensive about the failures of their own ideology.

The fact that I point out Trump's economic failures for his supporters doesn't mean I'm now an automatic supporter of left talking points, that's fallacious reasoning.

The pointing out of specific failures of the left or right do NOT define a person and their ideology, that's a childish and potentially dangerous fashion of dealing with criticism.  It's called jumping to conclusions and using prejudice as a weapon against people that get out of line with a movement.

If pointing out failures in particular ideologies sometimes enhances the other side, so fucking be it. What's more important to you, the truth or protecting failures of your own ideology?  I prefer the truth.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: qman] * 2
    #26357008 - 12/02/19 10:56 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Now qman, let's be fair here, I gave Falcon91Wolvrn03 two options to avoid being inadvertently perceived as supporting alt-right politics - be more explicit in your criticism of the right was one suggestion - be more precise in the language you use to criticize both the Democratic party and left in general was also an option.

Imprecise language allows room for misinterpretation - Falcon91Wolvrn03's statement was admittedly imprecise - do you have a problem with my calling this out?

It's weird how the left has become the party of hate and war since Trump took office.

In what ways is this statement imprecise?

Well, using "the left" to refer to the Democratic party, which perpetuates a popular misconception that benefits the right-wing two-party system of the USA - using a definite article to describe the party of hate and war rather than an indefinite article, which implies that these qualities are specific to one side - there's two basic errors of grammar and syntax

'It's weird how the Democrats have become a party of hate and war since Trump took office' is more accurate - but even here, there are inaccuracies. Just looking back to the Obama presidency, we can see widespread Democrat support for wars in Libya and Syria. We can also currently see that although Republicans support withdrawal from Syria while Democrats are opposed, the exact opposite appears to be the case with the war in Yemen. The notion that the Democratic party is displaying massively increased militarism in response to the Trump presidency just doesn't appear to be based in reality, but I would be open to Falcon91Wolvrn03 providing their reasoning.

That leaves us with 'it's weird how the Democrats have become a party of hate since Trump took office' and that statement, boiled down, just sounds ridiculous - both parties are victim to petty partisanship but I don't see Democrats holding two minute hate rallies where people chant 'lock her up!' and 'send her back!' Perhaps Falcon91Wolvrn03 could better illustrate the hatred he perceives and provide an actual critique of left-wing or Democratic politics, rather than sharing half-baked opinions that just happen to mirror alt-right rhetoric.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26357040 - 12/02/19 11:23 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

I'm not going to speak for Fal and the reasons why he made certain statements, but to me it really doesn't matter what his OPINION is on certain issues. He has the right to make those assessments without being prejudged on his "motivations" and being accused of making alt-right or alt-left talking points.

Isn't the best fashion to improve a movement is to point out its deficiencies?  I voted for Trump and then made a very long list of his failures after being elected. Some people didn't like that fact and assumed I'm now a Trump basher for illegitimate reasons.  Maybe they're correct (even though I don't think so) and I'm now hurting the movement they hold on to so tightly. At the end of the day, I really don't give a shit. I don't care if I offend the left or right, I don't care if I enhance the left or right. I'm going to tell it how I see it and just let things fall where it lands.

To get back to your original point, I agree that more precise language does help any potential misconceptions that could arise. With that being said, I don't think a disclaimer is needed after every post, it is what it is.


Edited by qman (12/02/19 11:24 AM)


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #26357067 - 12/02/19 11:50 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03's statement was admittedly imprecise - do you have a problem with my calling this out?



Yes.  I probably should have said something like 'It's weird how the Democrats have become more hateful and militant since Trump took office'.

Why didn't you correct me when I first said it?  Someone's compliment seems to have triggered you.  :smirk:

Anyway, it's cool, I agree with your criticism.  :toast:

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
The notion that the Democratic party is displaying massively increased militarism in response to the Trump presidency just doesn't appear to be based in reality, but I would be open to Falcon91Wolvrn03 providing their reasoning.



Speaking of semantics and imprecision, where did I say "massively increased"???  :smirk:

Sure, have a look at the numbers about withdrawal of troops from Syria:



Far more democrats oppose withdrawal.

But what's even more surprising is that we see similar results for Afghanistan:



Don't even get me started on Democratic hostility towards Russia.  We've had countless threads on how Democrats think we should beef up sanctions, get tougher over Crimea, etc.


Ultimately, it seems the only thing Democrats (and possibly Republicans) care about is:  "What does Trump want?  I'm going to oppose (support) it!"  People like koods can't think critically anymore.



More:  As Democratic Elites Reunite With Neocons, the Party’s Voters Are Becoming Far More Militaristic and Pro-War Than Republicans


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: qman] * 1
    #26357078 - 12/02/19 11:59 AM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I'm not going to speak for Fal and the reasons why he made certain statements, but to me it really doesn't matter what his OPINION is on certain issues. He has the right to make those assessments without being prejudged on his "motivations" and being accused of making alt-right or alt-left talking points.



Let me assure you that I am not using any perceived knowledge of Falcon91Wolvrn03's motivations when passing judgment on their statements. I'm taking their statements at face value and pointing out that, regardless of actual intent, they mirror alt-right rhetoric and as a result they will have the same effects as alt-right rhetoric - again regardless of prior intent.

Beyond that, the statements we make do effect how others perceive us, and that perception in turn effects how our statements are perceived. The boy who cried wolf is a classic example of that dynamic. I'm not calling Falcon91Wolvrn03 a liar - but my point is that if they continue to share alt-right rhetoric it is only a matter of time before they are associated with alt-right rhetoric.



Quote:

qman said:
Isn't the best fashion to improve a movement is to point out its deficiencies?  I voted for Trump and then made a very long list of his failures after being elected. Some people didn't like that fact and assumed I'm now a Trump basher for illegitimate reasons.  Maybe they're correct (even though I don't think so) and I'm now hurting the movement they hold on to so tightly. At the end of the day, I really don't give a shit. I don't care if I offend the left or right, I don't care if I enhance the left or right. I'm going to tell it how I see it and just let things fall where it lands.



I fully agree with the importance of internal criticism, and I have never shied away from such discussions. The statement of Falcon91Wolvrn03 that spawned this discussion was not constructive criticism - if anything, my post pointing out its deficiencies is just an attempt to improve their critique of the Democratic party or left-wing politics.



Quote:

qman said:
To get back to your original point, I agree that more precise language does help any potential misconceptions that could arise. With that being said, I don't think a disclaimer is needed after every post, it is what it is.



And if you use sufficiently precise language, there will be no need for a disclaimer anyways - if the language is imprecise, assume you will be misunderstood.


--------------------


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26357087 - 12/02/19 12:05 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

I think what needs to be proven here is that the democrats have moved farther right because of trump, and not just a natural reorientation post Obama. Not saying Obama was a dove but he was forced to make certain concessions that Hillary or any other dem potus would not have.

I mean look at the Ilhan Omar thing (which was started by Pelosi and other Dems). The establishment is trying to protect their left flank by demonizing any opposition whatsoever to bipartisan mainstays like unquestionably supporting Israel, and regime change in places like Venezuela. As the GOP embraces “trumpism” the Dems have to decide whether to be the party of anti war or try to triangulate that sweet spot of compassionate imperialism that Obama and every other Dem before him occupied.

Maybe you can make an argument that the Dems are moving right on FP to chase Trump, but they aren’t doing because Trump is a dove, or is somehow reversing establishment policy.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26357110 - 12/02/19 12:17 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Why didn't you correct me when I first said it?  Someone's compliment seems to have triggered you.  :smirk:



I was late to the thread and read through it all before responding.



Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Speaking of semantics and imprecision, where did I say "massively increased"???  :smirk:



That was my interpretation of what it means to become "the party of war" - massively increased militarism. What did you mean by that phrase?



Otherwise, I agree that Democrats do not currently support withdrawal from Syria while Republicans do - do you know how much of that support is the result of militaristic imperialism, and how much of that support is the result of not wanting to leave Kurdish allies to the mercy of the Turkish state? Furthermore, you said that this militarism was a result of Trump’s presidency - can you show that support for the war in Syria experienced significantly less support during Obama's presidency?

Finally, the wars in Syria and Afghanistan are not the only wars that the US currently finds itself involved in. As I showed previously, support for the war in Yemen experiences significantly more support among Republicans than with Democrats - how does this reality play into your claim that Democrats are now the party of war?


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #26357136 - 12/02/19 12:33 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I think what needs to be proven here is that the democrats have moved farther right because of trump, and not just a natural reorientation post Obama. Not saying Obama was a dove but he was forced to make certain concessions that Hillary or any other dem potus would not have.

I mean look at the Ilhan Omar thing (which was started by Pelosi and other Dems). The establishment is trying to protect their left flank by demonizing any opposition whatsoever to bipartisan mainstays like unquestionably supporting Israel, and regime change in places like Venezuela. As the GOP embraces “trumpism” the Dems have to decide whether to be the party of anti war or try to triangulate that sweet spot of compassionate imperialism that Obama and every other Dem before him occupied.

Maybe you can make an argument that the Dems are moving right on FP to chase Trump, but they aren’t doing because Trump is a dove, or is somehow reversing establishment policy.




Democrats really need to quit this whole "bipartisanship" thing. Bipartisanship relies on two parties acting in good faith. Just like you don't negotiate with someone by moving closer to their price while they refuse to budge. At this point, "bipartisanship" with the GOP has led to the overton window moving right, as the GOP moves right expecting the "bipartisan" democrats to continue following.

Democrats really need to just grow a spine, and if necessary, pull a Moscow Mitch. Shut down the GOP agenda without even bringing it up for debate.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26357138 - 12/02/19 12:35 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I agree that Democrats do not currently support withdrawal from Syria while Republicans do - do you know how much of that support is the result of militaristic imperialism, and how much of that support is the result of not wanting to leave Kurdish allies to the mercy of the Turkish state?



The only Kurds left "to the mercy of the Turkish state" are the ones who didn't agree to the peace terms.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Furthermore, you said that this militarism was a result of Trump’s presidency - can you show that support for the war in Syria experienced significantly less support during Obama's presidency?



It was in the Glenn Greenwald article I linked to.
Quote:

While Democrats were more or less evenly divided early last year on whether the U.S. should continue to intervene in Syria, all that changed once Trump announced his intention to withdraw, which provoked a huge surge in Democratic support for remaining.




Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
As I showed previously, support for the war in Yemen experiences significantly more support among Republicans than with Democrats - how does this reality play into your claim that Democrats are now the party of war?



First of all, I already agreed I should have said "a" party of war, not "the" party of war.

And in my last post, I said "Ultimately, it seems the only thing Democrats (and possibly Republicans) care about is:  "What does Trump want?  I'm going to oppose (support) it!"  People like koods can't think critically anymore."

That seems to be why Democrats now support war.  That's likely why we're seeing this shift.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos] * 4
    #26357154 - 12/02/19 12:49 PM (7 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I think what needs to be proven here is that the democrats have moved farther right because of trump, and not just a natural reorientation post Obama. Not saying Obama was a dove but he was forced to make certain concessions that Hillary or any other dem potus would not have.

I mean look at the Ilhan Omar thing (which was started by Pelosi and other Dems). The establishment is trying to protect their left flank by demonizing any opposition whatsoever to bipartisan mainstays like unquestionably supporting Israel, and regime change in places like Venezuela. As the GOP embraces “trumpism” the Dems have to decide whether to be the party of anti war or try to triangulate that sweet spot of compassionate imperialism that Obama and every other Dem before him occupied.

Maybe you can make an argument that the Dems are moving right on FP to chase Trump, but they aren’t doing because Trump is a dove, or is somehow reversing establishment policy.




Democrats really need to quit this whole "bipartisanship" thing. Bipartisanship relies on two parties acting in good faith. Just like you don't negotiate with someone by moving closer to their price while they refuse to budge. At this point, "bipartisanship" with the GOP has led to the overton window moving right, as the GOP moves right expecting the "bipartisan" democrats to continue following.

Democrats really need to just grow a spine, and if necessary, pull a Moscow Mitch. Shut down the GOP agenda without even bringing it up for debate.




Well this is assuming the Democrats ARE acting in good faith. We’ve all seen how they legislate when they have a supermajority: enact a healthcare plan created by right wing think tank Heritage Foundation, popularized by Governor Mitt Romney..

Trust me, the Democrats LOVE having their hands tied. It means they can keep pretending to be the good guy without having to actually prove it.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26359221 - 12/03/19 02:23 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I think what needs to be proven here is that the democrats have moved farther right because of trump, and not just a natural reorientation post Obama. Not saying Obama was a dove but he was forced to make certain concessions that Hillary or any other dem potus would not have.

I mean look at the Ilhan Omar thing (which was started by Pelosi and other Dems). The establishment is trying to protect their left flank by demonizing any opposition whatsoever to bipartisan mainstays like unquestionably supporting Israel, and regime change in places like Venezuela. As the GOP embraces “trumpism” the Dems have to decide whether to be the party of anti war or try to triangulate that sweet spot of compassionate imperialism that Obama and every other Dem before him occupied.

Maybe you can make an argument that the Dems are moving right on FP to chase Trump, but they aren’t doing because Trump is a dove, or is somehow reversing establishment policy.




Democrats really need to quit this whole "bipartisanship" thing. Bipartisanship relies on two parties acting in good faith. Just like you don't negotiate with someone by moving closer to their price while they refuse to budge. At this point, "bipartisanship" with the GOP has led to the overton window moving right, as the GOP moves right expecting the "bipartisan" democrats to continue following.

Democrats really need to just grow a spine, and if necessary, pull a Moscow Mitch. Shut down the GOP agenda without even bringing it up for debate.




Well this is assuming the Democrats ARE acting in good faith. We’ve all seen how they legislate when they have a supermajority: enact a healthcare plan created by right wing think tank Heritage Foundation, popularized by Governor Mitt Romney..

Trust me, the Democrats LOVE having their hands tied. It means they can keep pretending to be the good guy without having to actually prove it.




On the one hand, yes.

On the other hand, there is a bit of a genius in implementing what was, in effect, a GOP health plan. It completely fucked the whole "repeal and replace" idea, while still being marginally better than the previous status quo.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos]
    #26359647 - 12/03/19 05:27 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

On the other hand, being only 'marginally better' led a lot of people to believe that healthcare overseen by the Government isn't as good as people like Bernie know it can be.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26359747 - 12/03/19 06:29 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Yeah being shitty ineffectual dumbasses is actually a good quality for a politician. Then they can say “see how much of a dumbass I am? Don’t trust the government with healthcare. Trust private corporations!”


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26360210 - 12/03/19 11:50 PM (7 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...can you show that support for the war in Syria experienced significantly less support during Obama's presidency?



It was in the Glenn Greenwald article I linked to.
Quote:

While Democrats were more or less evenly divided early last year on whether the U.S. should continue to intervene in Syria, all that changed once Trump announced his intention to withdraw, which provoked a huge surge in Democratic support for remaining.



In my last post, I said "Ultimately, it seems the only thing Democrats (and possibly Republicans) care about is:  "What does Trump want?  I'm going to oppose (support) it!"  People like koods can't think critically anymore."



Since there's no rebuttal, and since there are polls backing this up, it appears that indeed democrats have turned into a party of war since Trump took office.

Some of us maintain our principles, but the koods of the world only care about supporting whatever is opposite of Trump.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26360347 - 12/04/19 02:39 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

People are disturbed with the way trump withdrew, not that it shouldn’t be done.

Stop misrepresenting other peoples opinions


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26360701 - 12/04/19 09:29 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Republicans were happy about the withdrawal.  I was happy about the withdrawal.

You wanted the Kurds to keep fighting to the death.  Get out of here with your fake concern.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26360714 - 12/04/19 09:36 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Really? Republicans were happy about the withdrawal?

Seems to me you're bullshitting again.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos]
    #26360783 - 12/04/19 10:16 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Really? Republicans were happy about the withdrawal?



Yes.  I provided the evidence in the Glenn Greenwald article.

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Seems to me you're bullshitting again.



You confuse Congress with Republicans.  It's no surprise that people funded by the military industrial support war.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26360801 - 12/04/19 10:30 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

A majority of Republican rabble think diaper don is better than Lincoln and would trust his word over the literal second coming of Jesus Christ.

Their opinions on this are next to worthless. diaper don has spoken, so they agree.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Kryptos]
    #26360855 - 12/04/19 10:58 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

We’ve all seen how they legislate when they have a supermajority:




I don’t think anyone has had a supermajority in the past 30 years


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26360860 - 12/04/19 11:01 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Republicans were happy about the withdrawal.  I was happy about the withdrawal.

You wanted the Kurds to keep fighting to the death.  Get out of here with your fake concern.



The fighting was over.

We didn’t even leave Syria. Now we’re guarding the oil.

https://twitter.com/cherijacobus/status/1202078653691109376?s=21


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26360877 - 12/04/19 11:14 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
We didn’t even leave Syria. Now we’re guarding the oil.

https://twitter.com/cherijacobus/status/1202078653691109376?s=21



Yes, I was the first person to bring that point up.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26360908 - 12/04/19 11:30 AM (7 months, 3 days ago)

You were first?

Here ya go:🏅


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26360967 - 12/04/19 12:06 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

We’ve all seen how they legislate when they have a supermajority:




I don’t think anyone has had a supermajority in the past 30 years




By supermajority do we mean enough votes to override a veto, or do we mean one party holding the white house, senate and house?


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26361110 - 12/04/19 01:46 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Or do we count all establishment politicians in the same party???


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26361163 - 12/04/19 02:12 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Me: I think healthcare should be free.

Them: BUT OBAMA!!!!!

Also Them: LEFTY DOESNT UNDERSTAND ECONOMICS!


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26361184 - 12/04/19 02:25 PM (7 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

We’ve all seen how they legislate when they have a supermajority:




I don’t think anyone has had a supermajority in the past 30 years




By supermajority do we mean enough votes to override a veto, or do we mean one party holding the white house, senate and house?




I’m this context I would think it means a filibuster proof senate. If you have the house, 60 senate seats and the White House, you don’t really have any need to negotiate with the other party.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 1
    #26366177 - 12/07/19 02:02 AM (7 months, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
People are disturbed with the way trump withdrew, not that it shouldn’t be done.

Stop misrepresenting other peoples opinions




Lol "people".  Was this people named "koods"?  Gimmie a break.  You're so full of hate and anger you would complain if Trump teleported you to gay heaven.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: meltdowner]
    #26366182 - 12/07/19 02:07 AM (7 months, 22 hours ago)

Ya, I'm not disturbed about withdrawing from an illegal war either.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26366240 - 12/07/19 03:46 AM (7 months, 20 hours ago)

Of course YOURE not. You support whatever benefits Russia. You have no problem when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods]
    #26366241 - 12/07/19 03:48 AM (7 months, 20 hours ago)

Of course we haven’t left Syria, just moved to different areas so not sure what Fal is happy about actually .


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: koods] * 1
    #26366932 - 12/07/19 01:05 PM (7 months, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Of course YOURE not. You support whatever benefits Russia.



No, I support whatever keeps the most people alive.  You very clearly complain against ANYTHING Trump does.

Quote:

koods said:
You have no problem when Russia illegally invaded Ukraine.



Source, or make believe?

Quote:

koods said:
Of course we haven’t left Syria, just moved to different areas so not sure what Fal is happy about actually .



I'm happy that people aren't dying like they used to.  You care less, obviously.


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Re: Debating left contra right on The Shroomery is not taking us anywhere [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26388052 - 12/18/19 03:30 AM (6 months, 20 days ago)

Lmao at OP making this thread, then attempting to argue against someone (the next post under his) trying to agree with him.

Holy. Fucking. Shit. Batman.


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