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OfflineEclipse3130
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Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety
    #26348027 - 11/27/19 06:51 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Anyone have any guesses on why high THC levels seem to inherently and directly cause an anxiety, and fear reaction in higher doses than one is use to?

It really got me thinking after an anxiety inducing high I just had recently, the WHY cannabis inherently produces an anxiety/fear reaction for apparently no good reason. Is this part of its "teachings" that maybe we have so easily overlooked? Has anyone ever thought it throws us inherently into this state to help us manage, or learn about our selves while in it?

Or maybe it is just me, but whenever I smoke more than im comfortable with, it automatically triggers a feeling of intense anxiety, that seems to be a direct effect of THC itself, for otherwise I would have no reason to feel anxious other than the overwhelming and unpleasant sensation that it causes during the intense experience. It does this consistently, 100% of the time, repeatedly over years of experience so I know it has to be a direct effect of THC, the question is, how does this effect benefit us? Or are we simply using too much to receive beneficial effects and in turn "over dosing" what our systems can handle, kind of like turning up all the bodies sensitivity and volume nobs to overdrive.

I don't use cannabis that often as it makes me feel defenseless and weak, it dampens my aura of my natural spiritual strength. But I've always been curious as to what other people have benefited from its anxiety inducing highs, and what role do you think it played it potentially helping us develop?


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #26348062 - 11/27/19 07:19 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I have gotten to the point where I have alot of control over that anxiety.

Weed can be used as a mindfulness tool in this way. imho


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: The Mycologist] * 1
    #26348102 - 11/27/19 08:00 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Our brain is finely tuned to keep our ego intact and strong. Certain drugs mess with the process of doing so. I'd guess the anxiety and paranoia is partially a response to the slipping away of control. I don't know that there's anything intentional about it, but it certainly has its benefits


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #26348164 - 11/27/19 09:08 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I used to love it dearly and abuse it regularly. I still do from time to time - I'll have stints where I can, for whatever reason, partake in high-THC strains multiple times a day for months on end.
And then it finally hits that trigger.
I'm suddenly desperately susceptible to severe irrational anxiety induced by the consumption.

I'll note that I have almost always been anxious. I was diagnosed bipolar/manic depressive when I was 12.
I took conventional medicine for all of 6 months before completely disparaging it. (I was the little one who wouldn't take cold medication or advil... I still have that adversity to this day.)
I started using recreational drugs only a year or two after that. For the longest time, cannabis was my ultimate medication - it helped keep all of my fluctuations in check, it helped me to take the time to appreciate the world.
But somewhere around 18 or 19, it started to show its dark side.

I spent about 5 years totally sober.

So, I've had a fair amount of time to personally distinguish the chemical transformations. The entirely irrational and consuming changes in physiological psychology - both sober and with drug interactions.
I'm pretty damn convinced it's more chemical than the usual sense of losing control on psychedelics. I see cannabinoids as having impressively more potential effects on your brain than that of more potent psychedelics that trigger different receptors. If for no other reason than the frequency of use and the concentrations taken.

I do agree that it can be managed with mindfulness, but for those (like myself) with a predisposition to chemical imbalances, it's a bit of a serious exercise that doesn't always favor the user.

I will say though, since the relatively recent rise in popularity of those high-CBD strains, I find that they hit that peaceful median of great relaxation, slight hallucination, and deep introspection that I once got from just about any strain. Landrace strains, too, seem a bit more easy to process. But these, too, can still catch me off guard.

Nowadays, if you asked me to keep either cannabis or µdoses of mushrooms, it would be a no-contest for mushrooms.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: footpath]
    #26348193 - 11/27/19 09:30 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It's excessive THC receptor activation. Generally, the brain maintains a nice homeostatic state. Everything is in balance and fine tuned. When things get wonky, it knows there is a problem and may panic.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: footpath]
    #26348203 - 11/27/19 09:39 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It's always been this way for me ever since I first used it. I could always give myself severe anxiety from intaking more than I was comfortable with, it's not that I freak out or don't have control over it, it's just an innate reaction that occurs in my brain from large doses of THC. The same sensation when you get scared very briefly when very loud music randomly comes on and jolts you, it's like that but for the duration of the peak. All bodily volume and sensitivity knobs instantly turned up to max suddenly!

It's not like I fight it or try to escape it either, I just ride it out because that's all I can do, I'll be sitting there in my mind chatting to myself, well this is great.. guess I gotta ride it through.. sometimes I'll even start convulsing and shaking from the intense anxiety. But I'm totally normal in my thoughts and mind and could have a normal conversation, it just triggers that part of my brain into overdrive


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: badchad]
    #26348209 - 11/27/19 09:42 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
It's excessive THC receptor activation. Generally, the brain maintains a nice homeostatic state. Everything is in balance and fine tuned. When things get wonky, it knows there is a problem and may panic.




I agree with that, also everyone being different and having different sensitivities/brain chemistry. It will always create this guaranteed chemical and physical response in my body, even if I take a year off, that first toke if it's too much I'll go right into overdrive fight or flight mode. I have had weed trips where it's as if I lose all control over my body and mind, become paralyzed and sink to the bottom of an ocean, breathing through a straw, it's a stressful but manageable state.

Though on the other hand, if I take a couple puffs from a joint, I'm in my sweet spot, never any anxiety and actually enjoy it quite a bit


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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Offline330ci
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Registered: 11/22/19
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: footpath]
    #26348236 - 11/27/19 10:04 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Bi polar and manic depressive here as well. would totally take psychedelics over pot if I had to choose as well. last time I was in the hospital they added marijuana induced psychosis to my list of psychological defects. The Medical community sees this anxiety and paranoia as a medical condition in habitual users. Personally I see it as a side effect, once I gave myself an ample period of sobriety I experienced no detrimental effects other than from my excessive alcohol intake though. My consumption is mainly medical at this point, prior to bed and concentrated doses of CBD and THC, activated THC topicals throughout the day. far better than pharmaceutical options for my ailments. as for finding any benefits of it myself? a little, after taking a long sobriety break and taking a dab, I definitely questioned if pot was for me as I was tweaking so much. but like everything in life, I think it's just about finding the right dose.probably the bodies way of saying, I like this but chill out.


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #26348244 - 11/27/19 10:11 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

For me, it's just terribly inconsistent. Could be the first time using in years, could be the the one before bed on a Tuesday, could be eight months into heavy use. No evident rhyme or reason - I can and cannot be depressed or stressed at that time in my life, for instance.
Higher initial intake definitely effects the severity, but not the likelihood - edibles are only reserved for when I'm feeling especially up for a gamble.
Interestingly, I don't think I've ever had a wake and bake hit me with anxiety...

Brain stuff never ceases to fascinate me, even at the expense of my own wellbeing.


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: 330ci]
    #26348245 - 11/27/19 10:12 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

330ci said:
Bi polar and manic depressive here as well. would totally take psychedelics over pot if I had to choose as well. last time I was in the hospital they added marijuana induced psychosis to my list of psychological defects. The Medical community sees this anxiety and paranoia as a medical condition in habitual users. Personally I see it as a side effect, once I gave myself an ample period of sobriety I experienced no detrimental effects other than from my excessive alcohol intake though. My consumption is mainly medical at this point, prior to bed and concentrated doses of CBD and THC, activated THC topicals throughout the day. far better than pharmaceutical options for my ailments. as for finding any benefits of it myself? a little, after taking a long sobriety break and taking a dab, I definitely questioned if pot was for me as I was tweaking so much. but like everything in life, I think it's just about finding the right dose.probably the bodies way of saying, I like this but chill out.





Totally agree, there's a SWEET spot for everyone, this is so greatly overlooked with every drug from psychs to alcohol, etc. Everyone is different! Too much and you will have ill effects, too little you will have no benefit, definitely about finding that sweet spot for what works best for your body. I generally disagree with dosage advice as well, I say always start small because you can always take more, you can't take less.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: footpath]
    #26348250 - 11/27/19 10:14 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

footpath said:
For me, it's just terribly inconsistent. Could be the first time using in years, could be the the one before bed on a Tuesday, could be eight months into heavy use. No evident rhyme or reason - I can and cannot be depressed or stressed at that time in my life, for instance.
Higher initial intake definitely effects the severity, but not the likelihood - edibles are only reserved for when I'm feeling especially up for a gamble.
Interestingly, I don't think I've ever had a wake and bake hit me with anxiety...

Brain stuff never ceases to fascinate me, even at the expense of my own wellbeing.




Haha! That last part is great. I find it always occurs whenever I get too much too fast, this is amplified when your tolerance is very low. I have a sensitive body so I can make this effect occur at any given moment especially with today's potencies. If I'm gradually taken out to sea I have a much better time riding the wave rather than the rogue wave from that initial inertia of the potent effects. This is also why smoked DMT is so difficult for me, because it's too much too fast, I'd much rather prefer Ayahuasca


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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Offline330ci
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Registered: 11/22/19
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: footpath]
    #26348266 - 11/27/19 10:25 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I feel this so much, I tried to get help through tradition avenues for my mental illness and chronic pain. damn near everything I use is or has been illegal at one point since I've started experimenting on myself.

I was prescribed 3600mg of neurotin and 300mg of seroquil for sleep as well as a few other antibuse and a few other addiction/anxiety/depression medications. My BP skyrocketed to 140-150/80-100. I felt better mentally but at what cost? haven't been to the Dr. in almost a year and feel absolutely incredible. has there been plenty of risks taken? of course, but this is the first time i've been relatively depression and anxiety free since I was a kid.


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #26348283 - 11/27/19 10:38 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

For sure. Having that ease in/ease out is certainly preferable for me, too.
But still doesn't necessarily dictate, for me, whether or not I'll have an anxious/unpleasant time of it.

The ocean wave analogy is apt.
I'm not an excellent surfer, but I can catch the waves of Portugal and Hawaii.
But, sometimes, I'll still get wrecked by the tides at the Jersey shore...

330ci - it's a tough learning curve because there's hardly anyone who can even give you consistent anecdotal evidence.
But, the 'controlled testing' that some of those pharmaceuticals supposedly go through is just as unreliable and often times shown to have far worse potential outcomes - like death.
Ultimately, what each and every one of us will show time and time again is that there is no such one-size-fits-all. It's fucking reckless that conventional medicine tries to suggest there is.


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Offline330ci
the unenlightened =D

Registered: 11/22/19
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: footpath]
    #26348330 - 11/27/19 11:02 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I watched some documentary and it pretty much was like generally in medical studies the placebo group has improvement in up to 75% of people just because they think they're taking something to help and when you look at those results, you can only get marginally better with pharmaceuticals. not to mention companies getting to pick and choose what they release, so many promising drugs are bought and benched because the profit potential isn't there.

I tend to trust the anecdotal evidence more than FDA approval these days. I definitely want to start following a more scientific approach when I trip for therapeutic purposes though, just because there isn't solid evidence, doesn't mean a non biased non approved study couldn't be performed. I never thought I'd see the day pot was legal, when I get back to michigan from vacation the first thing i'm doing is going and buying my first purchased from store legal joint. Im not sure if the public is quite ready for that ammount of freedom with psychedelics, but the FDA has no reason other than antiquated drug laws not to allow research into LSD and psilocybin. anecdotal or not, the evidence is there and it's quite promising.


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: 330ci]
    #26348357 - 11/27/19 11:27 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

There's a good amount of research done on the interactions of psilocybin with 5-HT2A serotonin receptors and the therapeutic significance. I'm pretty sure it's the main reason for it resurfacing for potential use in psychiatry. It was reading into that that made me start to actually put serious consideration into microdosing. I'm really, really thankful that I did.
Not to say that higher doses don't have their significant place, too. But the micro is where I finally found a true medicine. I'm still working out just how often I actually need it, but I can comfortably go unmedicated for over a week without having even minor manic episodes.. which is pretty significant for me.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: The Mycologist]
    #26348865 - 11/27/19 03:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
I have gotten to the point where I have alot of control over that anxiety.

Weed can be used as a mindfulness tool in this way. imho



this is true, while it takes concerted awareness to engage relaxing and begin observation of phenomena in mind and body, it is worth the effort, and for me, it means not being able to do much else at the same time.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinehot damn creek
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26348905 - 11/27/19 03:38 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I no longer smoke because of the anxiousness and self dread.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #26348919 - 11/27/19 03:44 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Eclipse3130 said:
...Is this part of its "teachings" that maybe we have so easily overlooked? Has anyone ever thought it throws us inherently into this state to help us manage, or learn about our selves while in it?








:yesnod:


That's actually the exact view point I've had for a while now.





-OM

.


--------------------


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: openmind]
    #26349012 - 11/27/19 04:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

There's definitely a reason as to why we get anxious, it usually starts with a thought :smile: cannabis definitely needs to be paired with meditation, set and setting are important - a potent psychedelic


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Evolutionary standpoint of cannabis induced anxiety [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #26349522 - 11/27/19 08:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Eclipse3130 said:
Anyone have any guesses on why high THC levels seem to inherently and directly cause an anxiety, and fear reaction in higher doses than one is use to?

It really got me thinking after an anxiety inducing high I just had recently, the WHY cannabis inherently produces an anxiety/fear reaction for apparently no good reason. Is this part of its "teachings" that maybe we have so easily overlooked? Has anyone ever thought it throws us inherently into this state to help us manage, or learn about our selves while in it?

Or maybe it is just me, but whenever I smoke more than im comfortable with, it automatically triggers a feeling of intense anxiety, that seems to be a direct effect of THC itself, for otherwise I would have no reason to feel anxious other than the overwhelming and unpleasant sensation that it causes during the intense experience. It does this consistently, 100% of the time, repeatedly over years of experience so I know it has to be a direct effect of THC, the question is, how does this effect benefit us? Or are we simply using too much to receive beneficial effects and in turn "over dosing" what our systems can handle, kind of like turning up all the bodies sensitivity and volume nobs to overdrive.

I don't use cannabis that often as it makes me feel defenseless and weak, it dampens my aura of my natural spiritual strength. But I've always been curious as to what other people have benefited from its anxiety inducing highs, and what role do you think it played it potentially helping us develop?





Weed kind of sucks. You have to smoke a lot to numb yourself from getting anxiety. Is it really worth being a pothead, being lazy, spending money and forgetting things just so you can comfortably smoke weed? im with you. Also, weed is the only drug(albeit in large amounts) that can make me go psycho.

but i really dont know why it must make us anxious. For me. it gives me paranoid thoughts of death and that i am not doing enough. No matter how much i accomplish or not think about dying, weed is right there to remind me death is coming someday soon and it will suck and end your existence, and that i still havent achieved as much as i could. Weed never gives me positive thoughts. im not asking to give me delusional thoughts, just not to be so goddamn negative.

maybe weed wasnt meant to be smoked.


its sad, the weed nerds are really making me dislike weed. god forbid you dont have the same passion for weed as they do. saying you dont like weed is equivalent to smacking them in face. all this terpine talk...gross


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/27/19 09:06 PM)


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