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karn09
w3rd


Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Purdue
Last seen: 14 years, 15 days
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May need alternative substrate ideas
#6205296 - 10/24/06 08:22 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I ordered some hpoo, and probably won't get it by the time one of my bags is done colonizing. I'm not quite sure if I can store it in a fridge or not ? But alternatively anyone have any ideas for some substrate that I can spawn to that I can get from a place like walmart, meijers or even a pet store that they have had a positive experience with?
All I ever see people using is hpoo or straw, and I don't think I can get straw around here, or in the least have no idea where to look.
Would love to hear any ideas for spawning WBS.
thanks
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cookeman
Live and let live


Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 1,077
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: karn09]
#6205315 - 10/24/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Spawning to coco coir is common now in place of hpoo. If you want, you can add a very small amount of blood meal or any of the other ph boosters to the spawn mix to get the ph around where you want it (hpoo is already at a good ph). You could also just do straight WBS. I've done straight WBS with pretty good success. You can pick up coco coir at a pet store. it will be in the reptile section most likely under a different name.
p.s. You can put your myco bag in the fridge to stall it for a while. If it's only going to take a couple extra days for the poo to arrive I would just throw it in the fridge. Besides that you can leave a fully colonized bag in the dark for several weeks w/o any adverse affects when you deside to spawn it.
-------------------- “Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf. I mean shit; they’re both books, right?” Joe Rogan R.I.P. - "Bones" - One of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know and become friends with.
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NuKe_HaDer
FriendlyNeighborhoodMycologist


Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 75
Loc: Colorado
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: karn09]
#6205362 - 10/24/06 08:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, unless you are planning on leaving your bag for several weeks before poo arrives, it won't hurt it to wait a couple of days even at room temps. I wouldn't even put it into the fridge, unless it will be a month or so until poo.
-------------------- Don't look twice, things are flying faster than ever anymore....you know.
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Quake3
Total Carbohydrate



Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 924
Loc: Relatively New York
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: cookeman]
#6205363 - 10/24/06 08:58 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cookeman said: Spawning to coco coir is common now in place of hpoo. If you want, you can add a very small amount of blood meal or any of the other ph boosters to the spawn mix to get the ph around where you want it (hpoo is already at a good ph).
Blood meal is usually added to increase nitrogen levels, not as a pH booster/stabilizer.
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royer
±±±±±±±±±±

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 4,801
Loc: anywhere but here
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: Quake3]
#6205387 - 10/24/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quake3 said:
Quote:
cookeman said: Spawning to coco coir is common now in place of hpoo. If you want, you can add a very small amount of blood meal or any of the other ph boosters to the spawn mix to get the ph around where you want it (hpoo is already at a good ph).
Blood meal is usually added to increase nitrogen levels, not as a pH booster/stabilizer.
i have used worm castings as a nitrogen boosted in coir .
-------------------- ================================================= if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: royer]
#6205526 - 10/24/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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People need to make a distinction between growing plants and fungi.
Worm castings are an excellent substrate additive material, but not because of nitrogen content. They are lower in nitrogen then either straw or horse manure, which are both lower in nitrogen than steer manure.
Blood meal is high in nitrogen, but is totally unusable to fungi unless it is applied in the composting process, which most home mushroom growers do not do. The use of blood meal added to manure or coir is a waste of resources and actually encourages algae to form on the surface of the substrate or casing layer, leading inexperienced growers to throw out a perfectly fine project thinking they have 'green mold'.
Chicken manure is high in nitrogen, but once again it needs to be added at the composting stage. However, composted chicken manure available in bags at nurseries is an excellent additive to manure or straw because it's already composted, therefore available to the fungi.
Fish emulsion, available at garden centers is also an excellent additive to manure or coir substrates because it has already been composted or otherwise broken down anaerobically at the processing facility.
Gypsum should be added to all substrates for the texture it helps to provide as well as the calcium and sulfur, both essential nutrients for mycelial metabolism. An added benefit of gypsum is that it tends to hold Ph levels steady, preventing wild swings as the mycelium colonizes a substrate.
Coir, worm castings, horse manure, chicken manure etc., are all acidic and should be buffered with lime to a starting Ph of around 8. This high Ph favors mushroom mycelium which is tolerant of sweet substrates, but prevents germination of contaminant spores which favor sour substrates. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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karn09
w3rd


Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Purdue
Last seen: 14 years, 15 days
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6206118 - 10/24/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for all the great responses, definitely gives me an idea of what i'm going to do. It also helped a lot in finding out what to search for, so I can do more research
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memes
Blessed


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: karn09]
#6206168 - 10/24/06 01:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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so RR what your saying is when using coir dont bother adding bloodmeal? and that gypsum should be used in its stead?
what then (if not bloodmeal) would one use to bump up the nitrogen levels?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: memes]
#6207112 - 10/24/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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No. I said don't add blood meal, period. Gypsum adds zero nitrogen. I listed chicken manure and fish fertilizer as nitrogen supplements if you feel you need such. Coir is fine by itself. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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memes
Blessed


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6207126 - 10/24/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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thanks again.
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Quake3
Total Carbohydrate



Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 924
Loc: Relatively New York
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6207268 - 10/24/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: People need to make a distinction between growing plants and fungi.
Worm castings are an excellent substrate additive material, but not because of nitrogen content. They are lower in nitrogen then either straw or horse manure, which are both lower in nitrogen than steer manure.
Blood meal is high in nitrogen, but is totally unusable to fungi unless it is applied in the composting process, which most home mushroom growers do not do. The use of blood meal added to manure or coir is a waste of resources and actually encourages algae to form on the surface of the substrate or casing layer, leading inexperienced growers to throw out a perfectly fine project thinking they have 'green mold'. RR
I was confused, because I usually read the teks first and then the forum posts after, because most of the teks seem outdated. I came across this post: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5159152#Post5159152
In which you say:
Quote:
Except, coir is ten to one hundred times the price of straw, so it's not really a fair comparison. Coir is a great substrate material though. Too bad about the price. For nitrogen, you can add blood meal to all substrate materials including horse manure, at the rate of one tablespoon to ten cups of substrate. It really does make a difference in the quality of your crop after harvest.
and being that you're experienced I just blindly believed this to be true. Yesterday was the first time I heard (from you) that blood meal shouldn't be used. All is well though, but one should really update the teks so people wouldn't have to post asking the same questions over and over (not that I'm not guilty of that).
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: Quake3]
#6207310 - 10/24/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yup, I remember that thread and I was waiting for it to come back and bite me in the butt. Thanks for using the search feature. I had read blood meal was a good additive, so I ran a series of experiments on it to find out. Those experiments showed it to have absolutely no effect whatsoever. I then found that many health departments around the world have banned mushroom crops from markets that were grown with any blood additives due to transmission of disease to the workers from pathogens in the blood.
Sorry for the confusion, but when I learn something is no good, such as "incubate in total darkness" or "86F ambient temperature is best for colonization" or "horse manure increases potency due to nitrogen" I believe in changing my ways and adjusting parameters to suit the new knowledge.
Unfortunately, I can't change other people's teks. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6207336 - 10/24/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Yup, I remember that thread and I was waiting for it to come back and bite me in the butt. Thanks for using the search feature. I had read blood meal was a good additive, so I ran a series of experiments on it to find out. Those experiments showed it to have absolutely no effect whatsoever. I then found that many health departments around the world have banned mushroom crops from markets that were grown with any blood additives due to transmission of disease to the workers from pathogens in the blood.
Sorry for the confusion, but when I learn something is no good, such as "incubate in total darkness" or "86F ambient temperature is best for colonization" or "horse manure increases potency due to nitrogen" I believe in changing my ways and adjusting parameters to suit the new knowledge.
Unfortunately, I can't change other people's teks. RR
What was the difference it made in the quality of the crop after harvest then?
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness HC Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.............. I LUV My Greenhouse http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848 My First Pans http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: HippieChick]
#6207371 - 10/24/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ouch, another bite, but you're kinda cute so it's Ok. Actually, I was repeating what another grower had said. My bad. I was getting some awesome flushes then, and incorrectly attributed it to the blood meal. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Quake3
Total Carbohydrate



Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 924
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6207374 - 10/24/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Unfortunately, I can't change other people's teks. RR
Ah but with the introduction of the new Shroomery CMS, you can
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Pensamientos
Stranger
Registered: 10/15/19
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Re: May need alternative substrate ideas [Re: RogerRabbit]
#26347573 - 11/26/19 08:43 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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RR - then why does horse poo increase potency if not nitrogen. I'm reading all your work so I'm sure i'll come across the answer soon.
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