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Offlineshroom28
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Rare psilocybe species? ID please * 1
    #26343962 - 11/25/19 06:26 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Since I didn't get an ID in my previous thread I'm trying again.

I found these mushrooms a few days ago in the middle of a deciduous forest in Central Europe while hunting for P. Serbica/Bohemica.

I first thought that they were a darker coloured variation of P. Serbica, but I don't think that's the case anymore due to a complete lack of bruising. All the other P.Serbicas that I found on that day bruised really easily and noticeably.

The shape of the cap is a bit different as well and there is a dark brown almost black line running around the bottom of the cap.

And yet the mushroom has that typical psilocybe look to it.

The only ID suggestion I got in the previous thread was Psilocybe atrobrunnea/fuscofulva, but the pictures don't match 100%.

Any ideas please? I'm super curious.



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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28] * 1
    #26343973 - 11/25/19 06:34 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I believe they are a Psilocybe species, but can't tell if they are in the stirps Serbica or something else. They resemble P. pelliculosa imho.

They don't look like P. fuscofulva, they look quite different and are typically growing in more swampy areas covered in mosses like Sphagnum.


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Offlineshroom28
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26343993 - 11/25/19 06:45 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
I believe they are a Psilocybe species, but can't tell if they are in the stirps Serbica or something else. They resemble P. pelliculosa imho.

They don't look like P. fuscofulva, they look quite different and are typically growing in more swampy areas covered in mosses like Sphagnum.




They're really strange, aren't they? I'm really puzzled as to what they are. Like I said, the lack of bruising is what's throwing me off the most. Could they be a very weak specimen of P. Serbica (in terms of alkaloid content), which would explain the lack of bruising?

They do look a bit like P. pelliculosa, but not quite a 100% match either. And keep in mind they were found in Central Europe, I don't think P. pelliculosa has ever been found here.

I would be willing to send one of the dried specimens to someone here who can get them professionally ID'd if anyone would be interested.


Edited by shroom28 (11/25/19 06:46 AM)


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28]
    #26344004 - 11/25/19 06:55 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe it's just the picture but I think I see some blue on the base of the leftmost stem.


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Offlineshroom28
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26344016 - 11/25/19 07:05 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Maybe it's just the picture but I think I see some blue on the base of the leftmost stem.




Possibly, it could be just dirt though. When the mushrooms were fresh I tried cutting into one of the caps and squeezing the stems which didn't produce any bruising though. Whereas doing the same test on the P.Serbicas that I found on that day resulted in pretty much immediate and very noticeable bruising.


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28]
    #26344035 - 11/25/19 07:18 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

There's definitely blue tints at the base of the stipe and the cap margin, similar to the level of bruising sometimes seen in P. semilanceata

Maybe p. medullosa?


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


Edited by Moria841 (11/25/19 07:24 AM)


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Offlineshroom28
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Moria841]
    #26344047 - 11/25/19 07:26 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
There's definitely blue tints at the base of the stipe and the cap margin, similar to the level of bruising sometimes seen in P. semilanceata



Thanks for the comment. The coloration around the bottom of the cap isn't caused by bruising. It's the natural coloration of the mushroom and it's dark brown/black rather than blueish.

Regarding the base, I think it's just the black dirt showing through the thin white mycelium that makes it look blueish. I didn't observe any bruising while handling the mushrooms and couldn't get them to bruise on stems or caps.


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Offlineshroom28
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28] * 1
    #26344054 - 11/25/19 07:34 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Here are a few high-res close ups on the cap and base of the stem.



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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28]
    #26344062 - 11/25/19 07:41 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, you have a good point on the "blue" being just tones of grey, happens with me a lot too.
Obviously the dark cap margins are from spore deposits. I somehow doubt we'll get any conclusive
answers from these pictures alone. Please memorize the exact spot you found these, and return
to check for more of them. But you should keep the specimens you already found. If you can
spare 20 euros plus postage you could send them to Alvalab in Spain for an ITS sequence.


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28]
    #26344077 - 11/25/19 07:51 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I'll take your word for it then, it could just be the lighting in the picture. Given those particular photographs though, it does look to me like there's both blackish-purple tones from spore deposits and light-bluish to olivish tinted regions

Then again my computer is notorious for making grey show up as blue :rolleyes:


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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Offlineshroom28
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26344088 - 11/25/19 07:56 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Yeah, you have a good point on the "blue" being just tones of grey, happens with me a lot too.
Obviously the dark cap margins are from spore deposits. I somehow doubt we'll get any conclusive
answers from these pictures alone. Please memorize the exact spot you found these, and return
to check for more of them. But you should keep the specimens you already found. If you can
spare 20 euros plus postage you could send them to Alvalab in Spain for an ITS sequence.




You guys might actually be right though. I used RGB color picker to analyze the color of the base of the mushroom and it turns out to be greyish blue. So there are definitely some blue undertones in there, just not very strong. Then again, I took the picture on my Samsung phone, which doesn't have the most color accurate camera.

I will definitely follow your recommendation and have the mushroom tested. Can you please tell me which exact service I need to order from here? http://www.alvalab.es/orders.html


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28] * 1
    #26344116 - 11/25/19 08:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I did the same thing, here's what I saw:

But the lighting could be affecting the colour. Some of the leaves come up dark-blue too


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Moria841]
    #26344379 - 11/25/19 10:55 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The blue on the base is very blue in my opinion.

I think it looks like an active Psilocybe in the Psilocybe serbica complex. :smile:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: knarkkorven] * 1
    #26345844 - 11/25/19 11:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Likely Psilocybe medullosa


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Offlineshroom28
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26345946 - 11/26/19 02:02 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Likely Psilocybe medullosa



Thanks a lot for the ID Alan. That's a pretty cool find if that's what it is.

Can you (or someone else) please tell me how I can get the mushroom DNA sequenced? Anglerfish mentioned Alvalab.es but I'm not sure which exact service I need to order from here: http://www.alvalab.es/orders.html

Also, I understand that DNA sequencing will 100% confirm what exact psilocybe it is, correct?


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #26345980 - 11/26/19 03:10 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I guess you'll need to do a DNA extraction -> purification -> sequencing -> upload to GenBank.
I must admit I'm not sure on this, I never did this myself. Contact them by mail and ask, they'll know.

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Likely Psilocybe medullosa




It doesn't look very similar, from what I have seen in pictures.
How about P. pelliculosa?


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OfflineTheDuder
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26346425 - 11/26/19 10:03 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Those are not Ps. pelliculosa, i would have to agree with Alan though i still think its possible those are just slightly weird looking serbica


--------------------

|-------------------[Ps. Azurescens]------------------------------------------[Ps. Semilanceata]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Allenii]------------------------|


|--------------[Ps. Ovoideocystidiata]------------------------------------------[Ps. Stuntzii]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Baeocystis]----------------------|


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: TheDuder] * 2
    #26346973 - 11/26/19 03:21 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I spoke with European Psilocybe expert Jan Borovicka about these, he said they aren't Psilocybe medullosa, and are instead in the Psilocybe serbica complex, likely "bohemica".


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Offlineshroom28
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 2
    #26347029 - 11/26/19 03:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
I spoke with European Psilocybe expert Jan Borovicka about these, he said they aren't Psilocybe medullosa, and are instead in the Psilocybe serbica complex, likely "bohemica".



Thanks a lot for doing that Alan. It's really cool to have expert mycologists looking at my find.

Would you say the fact that I couldn't get these 2 specimens to bruise on caps and stems could be explained by them being unusually weak in terms of alkaloid content?

Because I found a bunch of other P.Serbicas on that day which bruised really heavily. That's what initially threw me off and why I didn't immediately assume that this is P. Serbica/Bohemica, like my other finds (also combined with some slight differences in terms of its color and shape compared to the "typical" serbicas/bohemicas that occur in this area).

Edit: For reference, this is what most P.Serbica specimens look like in this particular area.



Edited by shroom28 (11/26/19 04:01 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Rare psilocybe species? ID please [Re: shroom28]
    #26347329 - 11/26/19 06:39 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Cool Psilocybe!

Definitely unique. Kinda reminds me of millipede insects....:strokebeard:


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