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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement * 6
    #26343472 - 11/24/19 09:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate?  I was unable to find a single one.  It’s crazy to me that people are so wrapped up in the PC baby movement that they can’t recognize a simple double standard and that there will never be a biological female who dominates in a strictly male sports league.  I don’t dislike trans people at all, but on a strictly athletic level, they male to female converters have an insane advantage IMO even after hormone therapy.  I doubt that they’re testosterone levels are actually the same as bio women. It’s also even crazier the only south park touches on this fact in the media and that the olympics are allowing trans M to F and degrading the integrity of the women’s sports.  How do you feel?  Please show me a case of F to M success in sports after transitioning.  I’d love to be wrong


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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InvisibleFruitOfLife
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever] * 8
    #26343486 - 11/24/19 09:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

They shouldn't be allowed to compete as "females". Gender equality and shit so they should be still compete with men.

There was a male ufc fighter who switched genders and completely dominated the women HE fought. Like not just win the fights, but literally beat the shit out of these women. If you are born a man, you are a man, and should compete with men, period.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: FruitOfLife] * 1
    #26343493 - 11/24/19 09:42 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Right.  Its so ironic that in the quest for PC equality, they’ve created the biggest unfair advantage in the history of sports
:lolsy:


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineFungiMaster
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26343517 - 11/24/19 09:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha


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https://tinyurl.com/wjuxagb


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InvisibleNiffla
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever] * 2
    #26343519 - 11/24/19 09:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

In day to day life I don't care what you identify as. Male, female -- you could identify as a unicorn for all I care.

But if you were born a male then you should only be able to compete in organized sports as one. Same thing for females obviously.


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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: FungiMaster]
    #26343520 - 11/24/19 09:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha



:canthelpbutlaugh:


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Niffla] * 1
    #26343525 - 11/24/19 09:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
In day to day life I don't care what you identify as. Male, female -- you could identify as a unicorn for all I care.

But if you were born a male then you should only be able to compete in organized sports as one. Same thing for females obviously.



It should be F against F and M against M like you say.  But I would have no problem with a female converting to male and beating men in professional sports; although that will never happen.  Still hoping someone has knowledge of a F to M trans dominating


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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InvisibleFruitOfLife
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26343532 - 11/24/19 10:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Quote:

Niffla said:
In day to day life I don't care what you identify as. Male, female -- you could identify as a unicorn for all I care.

But if you were born a male then you should only be able to compete in organized sports as one. Same thing for females obviously.



It should be F against F and M against M like you say.  But I would have no problem with a female converting to male and beating men in professional sports; although that will never happen.  Still hoping someone has knowledge of a F to M trans dominating



https://www.attacktheback.com/transgender-mma-fighter-fallon-fox-breaks-opponents-skull/

https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/transgender-mma-fighter-destroys-female-opponent/


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Edited by FruitOfLife (11/24/19 10:03 PM)


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: FruitOfLife]
    #26343539 - 11/24/19 10:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Somebody born female transitioning to male.  Not M to af


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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InvisibleFruitOfLife
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26343542 - 11/24/19 10:05 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Somebody born female transitioning to male.  Not M to af



Ohhhhhhh, yeah that won't ever happen lol. The only sport where it could happen would be like golf.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: FruitOfLife]
    #26343543 - 11/24/19 10:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

That’s a good point.  I bet golf will be the deciding factor on trans athletic issues lmao


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sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26343746 - 11/25/19 02:36 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

This has been known for years and years in serious athletic circles. I'm all for helping trans people fell ok about themselves but this shit is bullshit. F to m dominating would never happen in any kind of top level competition even tho they're all jacked up on steroids. I mean it's possible but it would be bullshit too.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 2
    #26343747 - 11/25/19 02:37 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:filosoraptor:
If gender is a construct why do people want to be the other one?


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26343750 - 11/25/19 02:42 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Theres all kinda different people and we have to love and tolerate all. I just feel so bad for the women who actually work really hard to be the best and have it stolen by some freakshow retard cheater.


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InvisibleThe Lizard King
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26343751 - 11/25/19 02:43 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I typically love and agree with Adam Conover,

but when he was talking to Joe Rogan about this on the pod...

...I immediately understood how the left can push people right


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Dipping Swords in Metaphors


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: The Lizard King]
    #26343764 - 11/25/19 02:55 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

When ludicrous beliefs take form in reality.  I really can’t understand how it got as far as to actually take place, and all the world records actually be considered legit.

Not to turn this into a “the end is near” thread but it’s something to take note of.  Looking back through history there are situations where it seems insane that things actually went as far as they did or people as a whole believed what they did.  We’re in a time now where a random push on the internet can make people go insane, and act out on it..  It’s dangerous and is only a matter of time before you catch yourself in the middle of one.

People’s realities are scripts hand written and displayed on a computer/tv.  They live in the tv.  It’s a new level of insanity we’re seeing.  The potential is there for catastrophic things to take place.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86]
    #26343767 - 11/25/19 02:58 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I don’t think a lot of people take into account the degree of “normal” we see everyday that is far from “normal”..


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:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86]
    #26343773 - 11/25/19 03:02 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yah but ppl always say that shit amanita in the face of moral progress. They're usually incredibly wrong and things tend to find a "normal" balance after time. It's like one those things where the first person who says something is considered crazy and like thrown in jail then we go thru the whole thing of changing stuff and maybe over step and have to pull it back a bit. It's just a natural way of working stuff out so ppl can be ok n stuff <3


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343776 - 11/25/19 03:04 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

This isn’t like saying a swear word on stage..:nojustno:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
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:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343780 - 11/25/19 03:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Is this actually happening? I get that it may pop up here and there, but you guys are blowing this out of proportion


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343781 - 11/25/19 03:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Theres all kinda different people and we have to love and tolerate all. I just feel so bad for the women who actually work really hard to be the best and have it stolen by some freakshow retard cheater.




That's your feminist irony coming back to bite society in the ass; when we can just change to the other team, it all goes out the window. Please note I'm not against trans at all in any way, shape, or form. Just philosophically there is an insane amount of contradiction in the majority of what society perpetuates as "acceptable computer code" for behavior/logic/etc.

Which is exactly why I asked my first question above.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineFungiMaster
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26343787 - 11/25/19 03:13 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha



:canthelpbutlaugh:




I guess if I had a gay room mate and they didn't have hiv I'd be tempted to have sex with them.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: FungiMaster]
    #26343802 - 11/25/19 03:30 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It happens koods but yah it's more of those well it pops up but it's like what do you do with it?


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343808 - 11/25/19 03:39 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe we should just end segregation in sports finally but I mean there would just be a bunch of crying and complaints from women over it.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343811 - 11/25/19 03:43 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Why not just create a new trans league?  Men vs men, women vs women, trans vs trans and they can sort out whatever rules they want.  They shouldn’t be able to muddy up already established leagues though.  The evidence is plain as day that it’s not fair.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86]
    #26343813 - 11/25/19 03:45 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Because that goes against being accepting and understanding of trans people.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343815 - 11/25/19 03:48 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

No it doesn’t.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86]
    #26343822 - 11/25/19 03:53 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Sure it does. Apparently they're saying theres people that feel like they're women on the inside but were born as a bro dewd. Theres prob over like a billiondy people alive or something and everybody is different so it makes sense to me that there would be people like that. These people just want to be viewed as the gender they identify with and accepted for being themselves.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343834 - 11/25/19 04:10 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Well that doesn’t fly when it comes to fighting and certain physical sports.  So sorry, just a fact of life.

However, we can start a trans league where everyone signs off on the dotted line what is fair.  It’s no coincidence world records are getting obliterated by men who say they’re women, competing against actual women.

They feel sad they weren’t born women?  Well, actual women feel sad they’re going up against men in a women’s sport.  I side with the actual women.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343841 - 11/25/19 04:14 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

There’s a time and place where you have to drop the fantasy man.  Reality trumps fantasy in this one.

Whether or not you feel like a woman on the inside, you are in fact a man on the outside and when that comes to physical activities, I’m sorry but you don’t get to play this time.  You start your own league where things are fair, that’s the best we’re going to get out of this one.  It’s not going to the bathroom, it’s physical sports and in some cases fighting.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86]
    #26343851 - 11/25/19 04:21 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

yah but if we integrate sports then its totally fair. Fighting should be based solely on weight class. I really feel like women could be contenders but theyre just not given the opportunities or something. It would at least be something to see.



Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (11/25/19 04:24 AM)


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 3
    #26343867 - 11/25/19 04:40 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You do understand that a man vs a woman is like a woman going up against someone who has been on PED’s their entire life right?  There’s a reason that’s not permitted.

What about the feeling of the trans?  We’ll what about all the non trans who have dedicated their lives excel at their sport?  This isn’t even all about a trans person being sad, it’s dangerous to women.

Your novelty sympathy is absured.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86] * 1
    #26343869 - 11/25/19 04:42 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Novelty sympathy; now there's a combination of terms I've yet to hear! I dig that!


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26343880 - 11/25/19 05:00 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

look it doesn't go both ways aminita make up phrases like novelty simpathy. you cant just go around saying women aren't equal to men bro or that trans people don't have rights. yah its bullshit and people are using it to cheat just to win awards and shit or to rub it in women's and trans peoples faces or whatever but of course they would. we cant just throw everything out the window because of some assholes. Either bar trans people from competing or intergrate sports.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343890 - 11/25/19 05:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

maybe your right tho maybe they should just be put in there own league like the do for the retards and disabled. those have already established and accepted as things and like you said they work out thier own special rules. I mean it would be like a guy with robot legs running the 100 yrd dash. its just not fair. I just worry about what trans people would think they might get upset. a lot of them kill themselves because of us theyre saying.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343891 - 11/25/19 05:10 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

My mom plays tennis with a MTF every week. Pretty sure my mom is better.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
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Edited by koods (11/25/19 05:10 AM)


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26343896 - 11/25/19 05:13 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

yah amanita see koods mom is trouncing trans all over the tennis court like hot cakes. that one broad billie jean king won in tennis that one time too so that proves it.


Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (11/25/19 05:14 AM)


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26343915 - 11/25/19 05:35 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Your dodging logic doesn’t discredit my point in any way.. Facts are going to be facts whether you agree with them or not.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26343921 - 11/25/19 05:42 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
My mom plays tennis with a MTF every week. Pretty sure my mom is better.



Who do you think would win in a fight?

We’re not talking about ping pong or chess koods.  Physical sports.

What do you think would happen is you put a woman on the football field?  There’s a reason that never happens.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86]
    #26343992 - 11/25/19 06:44 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You know it's a good topic when you can see where everybody's coming from, but also where everybody's coming from...:popcorn:


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever] * 1
    #26344028 - 11/25/19 07:12 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Gender may be malleable but sex isn’t.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

Males = XY
Females = XX

Quote:

In humans, the presence of the Y chromosome is responsible for triggering male development; in the absence of the Y chromosome, the fetus will undergo female development




Pretending otherwise is as stupid a climate change denial or not believing in evolution. It’s just liberal stupidity instead conservative stupidity.

We need to get past the fear of being labeled a bigot. You can call me a bigot and transphobic asshole all day. Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nettie_Stevens

If you can’t accept this you might as well be a flat earther. Wearing a fucking wig doesn’t make you a woman ffs


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26344071 - 11/25/19 07:47 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Gender may be malleable but sex isn’t.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

Males = XY
Females = XX

Quote:

In humans, the presence of the Y chromosome is responsible for triggering male development; in the absence of the Y chromosome, the fetus will undergo female development




Pretending otherwise is as stupid a climate change denial or not believing in evolution. It’s just liberal stupidity instead conservative stupidity.

We need to get past the fear of being labeled a bigot. You can call me a bigot and transphobic asshole all day. Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nettie_Stevens

If you can’t accept this you might as well be a flat earther. Wearing a fucking wig doesn’t make you a woman ffs





Uhhh, we know for a fact that sex isn't always exactly XY or XX, there are anomalies. So your complete certainty isn't that certain at all. In fact, nature produces variations on male and female. There's a good Radiolab on the subject, it even addresses a female track star that was running basically men's times, but she has a vagina and tits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26344096 - 11/25/19 07:58 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Here is an article about the athlete I was thinking of. It wrestles with some of the issues of women being more manly, despite being a woman.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/magazine/the-humiliating-practice-of-sex-testing-female-athletes.html

For the record, I don't really think it's fair for Usain Bolt to strap some tits on and start running in the woman's group. And I think that episode of South Park was fucking hilarious. I also think that these binary outlooks are based on the imaginations of people from 2000 years ago who were by and large all okay with fucking their daughters and a bunch of other shit that we know is insane today. So perhaps we can give up some of these long held beliefs for something a little more understanding.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26344136 - 11/25/19 08:21 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Because that goes against being accepting and understanding of trans people.



No, it doesnt.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #26344162 - 11/25/19 08:36 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
yah but if we integrate sports then its totally fair. Fighting should be based solely on weight class. I really feel like women could be contenders but theyre just not given the opportunities or something. It would at least be something to see.







The worst part is your not being sarcastic.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344186 - 11/25/19 08:55 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:



Uhhh, we know for a fact that sex isn't always exactly XY or XX, there are anomalies. So your complete certainty isn't that certain at all. In fact, nature produces variations on male and female. There's a good Radiolab on the subject, it even addresses a female track star that was running basically men's times, but she has a vagina and tits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies




This isn’t about transexuals, this about a class of folks with gender dysphoria bullying their way into sports divisions of the opposite sex.  Scientifically, they’re not even transexual.  Why you decided to derail this conversation with this tidbit of info, I don’t know.



Quote:

christopera said:


I also think that these binary outlooks are based on the imaginations of people from 2000 years ago who were by and large all okay with fucking their daughters and a bunch of other shit that we know is insane today.




2000 years ago it was this kind of shit that destroyed Roman and Greek society.  They’ll be trying to destigmatize incest pretty soon too.  We already got nine year old drag queens, and we all know what comes after that one.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26344191 - 11/25/19 08:59 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Did you not read the comment above mine? The one I quoted? Because male or female may be determined by chromosomes, but it's not binary.

Proof that non-binary sexuality destroyed Roman and Greek society? I bet you can't find any. (p.s. way to derail the conversation with this made up b.s.)


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Edited by christopera (11/25/19 09:05 AM)


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26344199 - 11/25/19 09:08 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate?  I was unable to find a single one.  It’s crazy to me that people are so wrapped up in the PC baby movement that they can’t recognize a simple double standard and that there will never be a biological female who dominates in a strictly male sports league.  I don’t dislike trans people at all, but on a strictly athletic level, they male to female converters have an insane advantage IMO even after hormone therapy.  I doubt that they’re testosterone levels are actually the same as bio women. It’s also even crazier the only south park touches on this fact in the media and that the olympics are allowing trans M to F and degrading the integrity of the women’s sports.  How do you feel?  Please show me a case of F to M success in sports after transitioning.  I’d love to be wrong




I know(to be fair i only met/shot with him once) a FtM that kicks ass in IPSC shooting.  Maybe not in the scope ov something like fighting or basketball and whatnot, but it is a competitive sport that has separate gender classes.

To be honest, much like immigration, this is one ov the very few subjects i personally do'nt like to address as i'm divisive in my feelings on the matter.  I do understand your viewpoint and also feel that making light ov the issue with comedy should be encouraged.  Despite being gay myself with one ov my best friends being MtF, i equally hate the hypocritical PC libtardation ov modern society that wishes to stifle free expression in favor ov moral placation.  A PC utopia would be totalitarian hell.

That said, a transgender should be allowed to use any bathroom ov hir wishing.  I do'nt believe in bathroom segregation and stand with my transgendered brothers and sisters on that issue!


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26344260 - 11/25/19 09:46 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Gender may be malleable but sex isn’t.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

Males = XY
Females = XX

Quote:

In humans, the presence of the Y chromosome is responsible for triggering male development; in the absence of the Y chromosome, the fetus will undergo female development




Pretending otherwise is as stupid a climate change denial or not believing in evolution. It’s just liberal stupidity instead conservative stupidity.

We need to get past the fear of being labeled a bigot. You can call me a bigot and transphobic asshole all day. Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nettie_Stevens

If you can’t accept this you might as well be a flat earther. Wearing a fucking wig doesn’t make you a woman ffs





Uhhh, we know for a fact that sex isn't always exactly XY or XX, there are anomalies. So your complete certainty isn't that certain at all. In fact, nature produces variations on male and female. There's a good Radiolab on the subject, it even addresses a female track star that was running basically men's times, but she has a vagina and tits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies




Nature is always going to have outliers but no matter how you slice it the XX XY chromosome reality is the cornerstone of reproduction. Grasping at anomalies is nothing more than an attempt to justify absurd beliefs. Sex isn’t a social construct; it’s a biological reality and all the pretending in the universe isn’t going to change that.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: TheFakeSunRa] * 1
    #26344270 - 11/25/19 09:54 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

That's not what you said though, you said " Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century."

I've proven you are wrong, and now you've admitted it, but you've moved the goal posts to suit your stance.

You can believe in binary gender all you want, chromosomal gender is not binary though. There's nothing you, me, or anybody else can do about that.


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Edited by christopera (11/25/19 09:55 AM)


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344281 - 11/25/19 10:02 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Did you not read the comment above mine? The one I quoted? Because male or female may be determined by chromosomes,


of course male and female is determined by chromosomes, for the last time we’re not talking about transexuals so drop the arrogant attitude.

Quote:

christopera said:

but it's not binary.


. This is non-pertinent to the conversation.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26344284 - 11/25/19 10:05 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It's pertinent because when you are trying to make a claim the only men and females can compete (in distinct or combined classes) you are ignoring that there's a spectrum beyond just men and woman in the traditional binary sense. And having an assortment of chromosomes that aren't the standard XX or XY doesn't imply transsexualism, that's you making shit up. If you look, I never even remotely touched on the subject of transsexualism.


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Edited by christopera (11/25/19 10:05 AM)


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344289 - 11/25/19 10:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
That's not what you said though, you said " Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century."

I've proven you are wrong, and now you've admitted it, but you've moved the goal posts to suit your stance.

You can believe in binary gender all you want, chromosomal gender is not binary though. There's nothing you, me, or anybody else can do about that.




This is a rather autistic response.  And still non-pertinent to the conversation.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26344293 - 11/25/19 10:08 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Do you have a rebuttal to the known science? Perhaps you can attempt to discredit my character some more.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow]
    #26344295 - 11/25/19 10:09 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century.

I stand by that. And it absolutely is binary. Two parts. Male and female. That’s how you make babies.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: TheFakeSunRa] * 1
    #26344296 - 11/25/19 10:10 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century.

I stand by that. And it absolutely is binary. Two parts. Male and female. That’s how you make babies.




Modern science disagrees.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344315 - 11/25/19 10:21 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century.

I stand by that. And it absolutely is binary. Two parts. Male and female. That’s how you make babies.




Modern science disagrees.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯




Sure when you dig deeper it’s more complex than what you learned in sixth grade but the basic reality of it remains. The studies you’re pointing to are exploiting a complexity to justify supporting a ridiculous political agenda. XX XY is the basic fundamental truth. That’s why all the scissor sistering in the world will never make a baby. Honestly, it’s just horse sense. Everyone knows it.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: TheFakeSunRa] * 1
    #26344319 - 11/25/19 10:23 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Horse sense? I've never heard that expression.

Is it like common sense?


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26344327 - 11/25/19 10:27 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
It's pertinent because when you are trying to make a claim the only men and females can compete (in distinct or combined classes)


You’ve moved the goal posts.  This is not a conversation about physically sexual anomalies.  This is a conversation about certain individuals suffering from gender dysphoria bullying their way into sports divisions of the opposite sex.

Quote:

christopera said:
you are ignoring that there's a spectrum beyond just men and woman in the traditional binary sense.


This is not a conversation about physically sexual anomalies.  This is a conversation about certain individuals suffering from gender dysphoria bullying their way into sports divisions of the opposite sex.
Quote:

christopera said:
And having an assortment of chromosomes that aren't the standard XX or XY doesn't imply transsexualism, that's you making shit up.


This a rather autistic point, and non-pertinent to the conversation at hand.
Quote:

christopera said:
If you look, I never even remotely touched on the subject of transsexualism.




So you admit you have nothing pertinent to add to the conversation and just jumped in to autistically sperg out on sexual anomalies.  Glad we got that sorted out.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow] * 1
    #26344335 - 11/25/19 10:32 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

No, I responded to the comment above mine that is factually incorrect.

I get that you can't prove me wrong, I also understand that you don't have any proof that the homos killed the Roman empire, and finally I acknowledge your inability to have a discussion like an adult as is clearly indicated by your repeated ad hominem attacks.

You've knocked it out of the park bro.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344344 - 11/25/19 10:36 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I still think that’s neither here nor there.  Why can’t you address the OP topic of the unfair advantage.  Chromosome deficiency might be the exception to the science sunra posted but it doesn’t seem to produce females with the strength of males who compete against biological females.  I didn’t click all the disorders admittedly but come on.  Show me the one that produces this super strong man FEMALE.  That nytimes I have to pay for not gonna fly bud
I want a name


Edited by theRealrollforever (11/25/19 10:37 AM)


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344346 - 11/25/19 10:38 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Do you have a rebuttal to the known science?


I never debated the known science.
I do have a problem with you coming in spouting about it like we don’t know about the existence of hermaphrodites.  Everything you’ve said is just general science and you’ve been very haughty and arrogant about it. 


Quote:

christopera said:
Perhaps you can attempt to discredit my character some more.


I never attempted to discredit your character.  I don’t know what you mean.

In all honesty, you do a good enough job of discrediting your own character, you don’t need my help.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26344359 - 11/25/19 10:46 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
No, I responded to the comment above mine that is factually incorrect.

I get that you can't prove me wrong,


You’ve gone from autistic sperging to just plain delusional.  Is this a weak attempt at gaslighting?  I can’t tell, but it’s making you look silly.

Personally, i get the feeling your having an ego jerk-off session at everybody else’s expense.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26344372 - 11/25/19 10:51 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Show me the one that produces this super strong man FEMALE.  That nytimes I have to pay for not gonna fly bud
I want a name




Click the link and before the page fully loads hit stop. The paywall will be defeated.

What I am saying is that an argument based on chromosome makeup is not legit, because that was the comment I responded to, i.e. strict male and female makeup doesn't exist like we thought. If we can agree that this is the case, and the science absolutely says that is, do we then make females with male chromosomes compete in the men's category, or the women's category?  I don't think men should be able to compete with woman in many sports, it doesn't make sense no matter their personal identification, but what if its a woman with an unusually man like chromosome makeup? These outliers break the mold for the binary application of the rules.

Here's the article pasted.

Quote:

One day in June 2014, Dutee Chand was cooling down after a set of 200-meter sprints when she received a call from the director of the Athletics Federation of India, asking her to meet him in Delhi. Chand, then 18 and one of India’s fastest runners, was preparing for the coming Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, her first big international event as an adult. Earlier that month, Chand won gold in both the 200-meter sprint and the 4-by-400-meter relay at the Asian Junior Athletics Championships in Taipei, Taiwan, so her hopes for Scotland were high.

Chand was raised in Gopalpur, a rural village in eastern India with only intermittent electricity. The family home was a small mud hut, with no running water or toilet. Her parents, weavers who earned less than $8 a week laboring on a government-issued loom, were illiterate. They had not imagined a different life for their seven children, but Chand had other ideas. Now, as she took the five-hour bus ride to Delhi from a training center in Punjab, she thought about her impending move to Bangalore for a new training program. She wondered if she would make friends, and how she’d manage there without her beloved coach, who had long been by her side, strategizing about how best to run each race and joking to help her relax whenever she was nervous. She thought little of the meeting in Delhi, because she assumed it was for a doping test.

But when Chand arrived in Delhi, she says, she was sent to a clinic to meet a doctor from the Athletics Federation of India — the Indian affiliate of the International Association of Athletics Federations (I.A.A.F.), which governs track and field. He told her he would forgo the usual urine and blood tests because no nurse was available, and would order an ultrasound instead. That confused Chand, but when she asked him about it, she recalls, he said it was routine.

Chand had no idea that her extraordinary showing in Taipei and at a national championship earlier that month had prompted competitors and coaches to tell the federation that her physique seemed suspiciously masculine: Her muscles were too pronounced, her stride was too impressive for someone who was only five feet tall. The doctor would later deny that the ultrasound was a response to those reports, saying he ordered the scan only because Chand had previously complained of chronic abdominal pain. She contends she never had any such pain.

Three days after the ultrasound, the federation sent a letter titled “Subject: Gender Verification Issue” to the Indian government’s sports author­ity. “It has been brought to the notice of the undersigned that there are definite doubts regarding the gender of an Athlete Ms. Dutee Chand,” the letter read. It also noted that in the past, such cases “have brought embarrassment to the fair name of sports in India.” The letter requested the author­ities perform a “gender verification test” on Chand.

Shortly after, Chand says, she was sent to a private hospital in Bangalore, where a curt woman drew her blood to measure her level of natural testosterone, though Chand had no idea that was what was being measured. Chand also underwent a chromosome analysis, an M.R.I. and a gynecological exam that she found mortifying. To evaluate the effects of high testosterone, the international athletic association’s protocol involves measuring and palpating the clitoris, vagina and labia, as well as evaluating breast size and pubic hair scored on an illustrated five-grade scale.

The tests were meant to identify competitors whose chromosomes, hormones, genitalia, reproductive organs or secondary sex characteristics don’t develop or align in the typical way. The word “hermaphrodite” is considered stigmatizing, so physicians and advocates instead use the term “intersex” or refer to the condition as D.S.D., which stands for either a disorder or a difference of sex development. Estimates of the number of intersex people vary widely, ranging from one in 5,000 to one in 60, because experts dispute which of the myriad conditions to include and how to tally them accurately. Some intersex women, for instance, have XX chromosomes and ovaries, but because of a genetic quirk are born with ambiguous genitalia, neither male nor female. Others have XY chromosomes and undescended testes, but a mutation affecting a key enzyme makes them appear female at birth; they’re raised as girls, though at puberty, rising testosterone levels spur a deeper voice, an elongated clitoris and increased muscle mass. Still other intersex women have XY chromosomes and internal testes but appear female their whole lives, developing rounded hips and breasts, because their cells are insensitive to testosterone. They, like others, may never know their sex development was unusual, unless they’re tested for infertility — or to compete in world-class sports.

When Chand’s results came in a few days later, the doctor said her “male hormone” levels were too high, meaning she produced more androgens, mostly testosterone, than most women did. The typical female range is roughly 1.0 to 3.3 nanomoles of testosterone per liter of blood, about one-tenth that of typical males. Chand’s level is not publicly known, but it was above the 10-nanomoles-per-liter threshold that the I.A.A.F. set for female competitors because that level is within the “male range.” As a result, officials said, she could no longer race.

In the two years since, Chand has been at the center of a legal case that contests not only her disqualification but also the international policy her lawyers say discriminates against athletes with atypical sex development. For Chand, who had never heard the words “testosterone” or “intersex,” it has been a slow and painful education. When she was first told she was being barred because of her testosterone level, she didn’t understand anything the officials were saying. “I said, ‘What have I done that is wrong?’ ” she told me by phone in May through a Hindi translator. “Then the media got my phone number and started calling me and asking about an androgen test, and I had no idea what an androgen test was. The media asked, ‘Did you have a gender test?’ And I said, ‘What is a gender test?’ ”

No governing body has so tenaciously tried to determine who counts as a woman for the purpose of sports as the I.A.A.F. and the International Olympic Committee (I.O.C.). Those two influential organizations have spent a half-century vigorously policing gender boundaries. Their rationale for decades was to catch male athletes masquerading as women, though they never once discovered an impostor. Instead, the athletes snagged in those efforts have been intersex women — scores of them.

The treatment of female athletes, and intersex women in particular, has a long and sordid his­tory. For centuries, sport was the exclusive province of males, the competitive arena where masculinity was cultivated and proven. Sport endowed men with the physical and psychological strength that “manhood” required. As women in the late 19th century encroached on explicitly male domains — sport, education, paid labor — many in society became increasingly anxious; if a woman’s place wasn’t immutable, maybe a man’s role, and the power it entailed, were not secure either.

Well into the 20th century, women were discouraged from participating in sports. Some medical experts claimed that vigorous exercise would damage women’s reproductive capacity and their fragile emotional state and would make them muscular, “mannish” and unattractive to men. Critics fretted that athletics would unbind women from femininity’s modesty and self-restraint.


As women athletes’ strength and confidence grew, some observers began to wonder if fast, powerful athletes could even be women. In the 1936 Berlin Olympics, the runners Stella Walsh of Poland and Helen Stephens of the United States were rumored to be male impostors because of their remarkable athleticism, “male-like” muscles and angular faces. After Stephens narrowly beat Walsh in the 100-meter dash and posted a world record, Stephens was publicly accused of being a man, by Walsh or Polish journalists — accounts vary. German Olympics officials had examined Stephens’s genitals before the event and declared her female. Four decades later, in an unexpected twist, an autopsy of Walsh revealed she had ambiguous genitalia.

In 1938, the gender of an athlete was again in dispute. The German high-jumper Dora Ratjen, a former fourth-place Olympian who won a gold medal at the European Athletics Championship, was suddenly identified as male, prompting Germany to quietly return the medal. When Ratjen’s case became public years later — he claimed that the Nazis pressured him to pose as a woman for three years — it vali­dated the growing anxiety about gender fraud in athletics. But in 2009, the magazine Der Spiegel investigated medical and police records and found Ratjen had been born with ambiguous genitals but, at the midwife’s suggestion, was raised as a girl, dressed in girls’ clothes and sent to girls’ schools. Dora lived as a female until two years after the 1936 Olympics, when police were alerted to a train traveler in women’s clothes who looked suspiciously masculine. With relief so apparent that the police noted it in their report, Ratjen told them that despite his parents’ claims, he had long suspected he was male. A police physician examined him and agreed, but reported that Ratjen’s genitals were atypical. Ratjen changed his first name from Dora to Heinrich. But those details were unknown until recently, so for decades, Ratjen was considered a gender cheat.

By the mid-1940s, international sports administrators began requiring female competitors to bring medical “femininity certificates” to verify their sex. In the 1950s, many Olympics officials were so uneasy about women’s participation that Prince Franz Josef of Liechtenstein, a member of the International Olympic Committee, spoke for many when he said he wanted to “be spared the unesthetic spectacle of women trying to look and act like men,” writes Susan K. Cahn, a his­tory professor at the University at Buffalo, in her book “Coming On Strong: Gender and Sexuality in 20th-Century Women’s Sports.” Others were particularly bothered by women in track and field because of the strained expressions on their faces during competition. Such female exertion violated the white middle-class ideal of femininity, as did the athletes’ “masculinized” physiques, prompting Olympic leaders to consider eliminating those events for women.

In 1952, the Soviet Union joined the Olympics, stunning the world with the success and brawn of its female athletes. That year, women accounted for 23 of the Soviet Union’s 71 medals, compared with eight of America’s 76 medals. As the Olympics became another front in the Cold War, rumors spread in the 1960s that Eastern-bloc female athletes were men who bound their genitals to rake in more wins.

Though those claims were never substantiated, in 1966 international sports officials decided they couldn’t trust individual nations to certify femininity, and instead implemented a mandatory genital check of every woman competing at international games. In some cases, this involved what came to be called the “nude parade,” as each woman appeared, underpants down, before a panel of doctors; in others, it involved women’s lying on their backs and pulling their knees to their chest for closer inspection. Several Soviet women who had dominated international athletics abruptly dropped out, cementing popular conviction that the Soviets had been tricking authorities. (More recently, some researchers have speculated that those athletes may have been intersex.)

Amid complaints about the genital checks, the I.A.A.F. and the I.O.C. introduced a new “gender verification” strategy in the late ’60s: a chromosome test. Officials considered that a more dignified, objective way to root out not only impostors but also intersex athletes, who, Olympic officials said, needed to be barred to ensure fair play. Ewa Klobukowska, a Polish sprinter, was among the first to be ousted because of that test; she was reportedly found to have both XX and XXY chromosomes. An editorial in the I.O.C. magazine in 1968 insisted the chromosome test “indicates quite definitely the sex of a person,” but many geneticists and endocrinologists disagreed, pointing out that sex was determined by a confluence of genetic, hormonal and physiological factors, not any one alone. Relying on science to arbitrate the male-female divide in sports is fruitless, they said, because science could not draw a line that nature itself refused to draw. They also argued that the tests discriminated against those whose anomalies provided little or no competitive edge and traumatized women who had spent their whole lives certain they were female, only to be told they were not female enough to participate.

One of those competitors was Maria José Martínez Patiño, a 24-year-old Spanish hurdler who was to run at the 1985 World University Games in Japan. The night before the race, a team official told her that her chromosome test results were abnormal. A more detailed investigation showed that although the outside of her body was fully female, Patiño had XY chromosomes and internal testes. But because of a genetic mutation, her cells completely resisted the testosterone she produced, so her body actually had access to less testosterone than a typical woman. Just before the Spanish national championships began, Spanish athletic officials told her she should feign an injury and withdraw from athletics permanently and without fuss. She refused. Instead, she ran the 60-meter hurdles and won, at which point someone leaked her test results to the press. Patiño was thrown off the national team, expelled from the athletes’ resi­dence and denied her scholarship. Her boyfriend and many friends and fellow athletes abandoned her. Her medals and records were revoked.

Patiño became the first athlete to formally protest the chromosome test and to argue that disqualification was unjustified. After nearly three years, the I.A.A.F. agreed that without being able to use testosterone, her body had no advantage, and it reinstated Patiño. But by then, her hopes for making the Olympics were dashed.

Dutee Chand was only 4 when she started running, tagging along with her sister, Saraswati, a competitive runner who liked to practice sprints along the local Brahmani River. Saraswati found training boring, so she recruited Dutee, 10 years her junior, to keep her company. For years, Dutee ran in bare feet — even on the village’s mud-and-pebble streets — because she had to protect the only shoes she owned: flimsy rubber flip-flops that she knew her parents could not afford to replace.

When Dutee was about 7, her parents pressed her to stop running and learn to weave instead. But Saraswati argued that with Dutee’s speed, she could earn more as a sprinter. Saraswati, who has since become a police officer, reminded her parents of the benefits her own running had brought to the family. Once the district government realized Saraswati’s athletic potential, she, like other athletes, was given meat and chicken and eggs, food her family had not been able to afford. And she reminded them of the prize money she brought home whenever she did well in marathons. They agreed to let Dutee run.

Not long after, Saraswati used a string to measure Dutee’s foot and took a bus to the nearest city, about 60 miles away, to find an affordable pair of sturdy sneakers for her sister. The ride took three hours, frequently picking up passengers carrying goats or chickens and large bundles. When Saraswati gave Dutee the sneakers the next morning, Saraswati told me over the phone through a translator, Dutee yelped. “She asked me what can happen if she runs wholeheartedly. She asked if she would go abroad like me, and said she had never sat in a bus or a train, and asked where the money will come from for her to go abroad. I said that ‘if, with these shoes, you run well, you will be sent abroad from the money that will come to you, and not just that, but you’ll also get a tracksuit. So run!’ ”

In 2006, 10-year-old Dutee was accepted into a state-sponsored sports program more than two hours from the family’s home. Food, lodging and training were covered. She missed home but appreciated the dorm’s electricity, running water and indoor toilets. And she was happy she could send prize money to her parents.

1936 Stella Walsh and Helen Stephens Stephens, right, narrowly beat Walsh in the 100-meter dash at the Berlin Olympics. Both were rumored to be male impostors. Credit...Bettmann/Getty Images


That same year, though Dutee didn’t know it, a catastrophe was unfolding for another Indian sprinter. Santhi Soundarajan, a 25-year-old from southern India, finished second in the 800 meters at the 2006 Asian Games in Doha, Qatar, all the more impressive given her roots as a member of India’s impoverished “untouchable” caste. The previous decade, the I.O.C. and I.A.A.F. yielded to pressure by the medical and scientific community and stopped sex-testing every female athlete. But the groups retained the right to test an athlete’s chromosomes when questions about her sex arose and to follow that with a hormone test, a gynecological exam and a psychological evaluation.

In Soundarajan’s case, the media noted that she wasn’t just fast; she also had a deep voice and a flat chest. The day after Soundarajan’s race, the Athletics Federation of India drew her blood and examined her body. Some of her results were leaked to the media. Shortly after, Soundarajan was watching TV when she saw a news report that she had “failed” a sex test. Rejected by the local sports federations, stripped of her silver medal, tormented by ongoing scrutiny and unbearably embarrassed, she attempted suicide, reportedly by swallowing poison.

As Chand began competing in national athletics, another runner from a poor rural village, this time in South Africa, burst onto the interna­tional athletic stage. When Caster Semenya blew by her opponents in the 800-meter race at the 2009 African Junior Championships, her performance raised suspicions. Shortly after, sports officials tested her as she prepared for the World Athletics Championship. Unconcerned — she assumed the investigation was for doping — Semenya won gold again. Almost immediately, the fact that Semenya had been sex-tested was leaked to the press. Instead of attending what is normally the celebratory news conference, Semenya went into hiding. The I.A.A.F. spokesman Nick Davies announced that if Semenya was an impostor, she could be stripped of her medal. He added: “However, if it’s a natural thing, and the athlete has always thought she’s a woman or been a woman, it’s not exactly cheating.”

Fellow athletes, the press and commenters on social media scrutinized Semenya’s body and made much of her supposed gender transgressions: her muscular physique, her deep voice, her flexed-biceps pose, her unshaved armpits, the long shorts she ran in instead of bikini shorts, in addition to her extraordinary speed. A story on Time magazine’s website was headlined “Could This Women’s World Champ Be a Man?” One of Semenya’s competitors, Elisa Cusma of Italy, who came in sixth, said: “These kind of people should not run with us. For me, she is not a woman. She is a man.” The Russian star runner Mariya Savinova reportedly sneered, “Just look at her.” (The World Anti-Doping Agency would later accuse Savinova of using performance-enhancing drugs and recommend a lifetime ban.) The I.A.A.F. general secretary, Pierre Weiss, said of Semenya, “She is a woman, but maybe not 100 percent.” Unlike India, South Africa filed a human rights complaint with the United Nations arguing that the I.A.A.F.’s testing of Semenya was “both sexist and racist.” Semenya herself would later write in a statement, “I have been subjected to unwarranted and invasive scrutiny of the most intimate and private details of my being.”

After nearly a year of negotiations (the details of which are not public) the I.A.A.F. cleared Semenya to run in 2010, and she went on to win the silver medal in the 2012 Olympics. She will be running in Rio. But the federation still faced condemnation over leaks, public smears and the very idea of a sex test. The I.A.A.F. maintained it was obliged to protect female athletes from having “to compete against athletes with hormone-related performance advantages commonly associated with men.” In 2011, the association announced that it would abandon all references to “gender verification” or “gender policy.” Instead, it would institute a test for “hyperandrogenism” (high testosterone) when there are “reasonable grounds for believing” that a woman may have the condition. Women whose testosterone level was “within the male range” would be barred. There were two exceptions: If a woman like Maria Patiño was resistant to testosterone’s effects — or if a woman reduced her testosterone. This entails having her undescended testes surgically removed or taking hormone-suppressing drugs.

Not long after the policy went into effect, sports officials referred four female athletes from “rural or mountainous regions of developing countries” to a French hospital to reduce their high testosterone, according to a 2013 article in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. The authors, many of whom were physicians who treated the women, describe telling them that leaving in their internal testes “carries no health risk,” but that removing them would allow the athletes to resume competition, though possibly hurt their performance. The women, who were between 18 and 21, agreed to the procedure. The physicians treating them also recommended surgically reducing their large clitorises to make them look more typical. The article doesn’t mention whether they told their patients that altering their clitorises might impair sexual sensation, but it does say the women agreed to that surgery too.

Chand was unaware of any controversy surrounding Semenya or other intersex athletes. Her gender concerns were much more immediate: She saw other 15-year-old girls becoming curvier and heard them talk about getting their periods. She asked her mother why her body wasn’t doing the same thing, and trusted her answer: Chand’s body would change when it was good and ready.

In 2012, Chand advanced to a national-level athletic training program, which in addition to food and lodging provided a stipend. At 16, she also became a national champion in the under-18 category, winning the 100 meters in 11.8 seconds. The next year, she won gold in the 100 meters and the 200 meters. In June 2014, she won gold yet again at the Asian championships in Taipei.

Not long after that, she received the call to go to Delhi and was tested. After her results came in, officials told her she could return to the national team only if she reduced her testosterone level — and that she wouldn’t be allowed to compete for a year. The particulars of her results were not made public, but the media learned, and announced, that Chand had “failed” a “gender test” and wasn’t a “normal” woman. For days, Chand cried inconsolably and refused to eat or drink. “Some in the news were saying I was a boy, and some said that maybe I was a transsexual,” Chand told me. “I felt naked. I am a human being, but I felt I was an animal. I wondered how I would live with so much humiliation.”

As news spread that Chand had been dropped from the national team, advocates encouraged her to fight back. Payoshni Mitra, an Indian researcher with a doctorate in gender issues in sport who had advocated on behalf of other intersex athletes, suggested Chand send a letter to the Athletics Federation of India, requesting her disqualification be reversed. “I have not doped or cheated,” Chand said in Hindi, and Mitra, who would become Chand’s government-appointed adviser, translated to English. “I am unable to understand why I am asked to fix my body in a certain way simply for participation as a woman. I was born a woman, reared up as a woman, I identify as a woman and I believe I should be allowed to compete with other women, many of whom are either taller than me or come from more privileged backgrounds, things that most certainly give them an edge over me.”

Mitra and others also urged Chand to take her case to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport — the Supreme Court for sports disputes — arguing that the I.A.A.F.’s testosterone policy was discriminatory and should be rescinded. She agreed. Over four days in March 2015, a three-judge panel heard Chand’s appeal, as a total of 16 witnesses, including scientists, sports officials and athletes, testified.

Female athletes, intersex and not, wondered just how this case would affect their lives. At the hearing, Paula Radcliffe, the British runner who holds the women’s world record for the marathon, testified for the I.A.A.F., saying elevated testosterone levels “make the competition unequal in a way greater than simple natural talent and dedication.” She added, “The concern remains that their bodies respond in different, stronger ways to training and racing than women with normal testosterone levels, and that this renders the competition fundamentally unfair.”

Madeleine Pape, a 2008 Olympian from Aus­tra­lia, testified for Chand. Pape lost to Caster Semenya in the 2009 World Championships, Semenya’s last race before her sex-test results were made public. Pape had heard runners complain that Semenya was a man or had male-like advantages, and she was angry that Semenya seemed to win so easily. “At the time, I felt that people like Caster shouldn’t be allowed to compete,” Pape told me. But in 2012, Pape began work on a sociology Ph.D. focusing on women in sport. “With my running days behind me, I had the space to think more critically about all that,” she says. “Until that point, I had no idea that the science of sex differences is extremely contested and has shifted over time, as have the regulations in sports, which change but don’t improve as they try to get at the same questions.”

Just what role testosterone plays in improving athletic performance is still being debated. At the hearing, both sides agreed that synthetic testosterone — doping with anabolic steroids — does ramp up performance, helping male and female athletes jump higher and run faster. But they disagreed vehemently about whether the body’s own testosterone has the same effect.

I.A.A.F. witnesses testified that logic suggests that natural testosterone is likely to work the way its synthetic twin does. They pointed to decades of I.A.A.F. and I.O.C. testing showing that a disproportionate number of elite female athletes, particularly in track and field, have XY chromosomes; by their estimates, the presence of the Y chromosome in this group is more than 140 times higher than it is among the general female population. Surely, witnesses for the I.A.A.F. argued, that overrepresentation indicated that natural testosterone has an outsize influence on athletic prowess.

Chand’s witnesses countered that even if natural testosterone turns out to play a role in improving performance, testosterone alone can’t explain the overrepresentation of intersex elite athletes; after all, many of those XY female athletes had low testosterone or had cells that lacked androgen receptors. At the Atlanta Games in 1996, one of the few times the I.O.C. allowed detailed intersex-related data to be released, seven of the eight women who were found to have a Y chromosome turned out to be androgen insensitive: Their bodies couldn’t use the testosterone they made. Some geneticists speculate that the overrepresentation might be because of a gene on the Y chromosome that increases stature; height is clearly beneficial in several sports, though that certainly isn’t a factor for Chand.

In court, the I.A.A.F. acknowledged that men’s natural testosterone levels, no matter how high, were not regulated; the rationale, it said, was that there was no evidence that men with exceptionally high testosterone have a competitive advantage. Pressed by Chand’s lawyer, the I.A.A.F. also conceded that no research had actually proved that unusually high levels of natural testosterone lead to unusually impressive sports performance in women either. Nor has any study proved that natural testosterone in the “male range” provides women with a competitive advantage commensurate with the 10 to 12 percent advantage that elite male athletes typically have over elite female athletes in comparable events. In fact, the I.A.A.F.’s own witnesses estimated the performance advantage of women with high testosterone to be between 1 and 3 percent, and the court played down the 3 percent figure, because it was based on limited, unpublished data.

Chand’s witnesses also pointed out that researchers had identified more than 200 biological abnormalities that offer specific competitive advantages, among them increased aerobic capacity, resistance to fatigue, exceptionally long limbs, flexible joints, large hands and feet and increased numbers of fast-twitch muscle fibers — all of which make the idea of a level playing field illusory, and not one of which is regulated if it is innate.

Bruce Kidd, a former long-distance Olympic runner, told me in May that Olympians themselves sometimes joke that they’re all freaks of nature, with one or another genetic abnormality that makes them great at what they do. Kidd, a Canadian who has long pushed for gender equity in sports, noted that there are also many external variables that influence performance: access to excellent coaching, training facilities, healthy nutrition and so on. “If athletic officials really want to address the significant factors affecting advantage, they should require all athletes to live in the same place, in the same level of wealth, with access to the same resources,” he says. “Boy, oh, boy, there are so many unfair advantages many Olympians have, starting with who their parents are.”

But the I.A.A.F. argued that testosterone is different from other factors, because it is responsible for the performance gap between the sexes. That gap is the very reason sports is divided by sex, the I.A.A.F. says, so regulating testosterone is therefore justified.

Chand’s hearing, though, was about more than just testosterone. Implicitly, it questioned the decades of relentless scrutiny of female athletes — especially the most successful ones. Veronica Brenner, a Canadian who won a silver medal in freestyle skiing in 2002, told me she first learned that female Olympians had to pass a sex test when she arrived at the ’98 Games in Nagano, Japan. “I said: ‘Are you kidding?’ I’d been competing my whole life, and my gender has never been questioned!” Brenner’s test confirmed that she had XX chromosomes, and she was given what was commonly called a “femininity card” to prove she was the gender she claimed to be. But she was irked that despite the many advances of female athletes in the last half-century, powerful male athletes are celebrated and powerful female ones are suspect. “We’d hear comments all the time: ‘She’s really strong — she must be part guy.’ ”

Other critics see testosterone testing as simply the old “gender verification,” the latest effort to keep out women who don’t adhere to gender norms or have a standard female body. Katrina Karkazis, a bioethicist at Stanford University who is a leader of the international campaign against banning intersex athletes and who testified in Chand’s case, says that if an athlete’s androgen test shows she has high testosterone, she must undergo the same gynecological exam that has existed for decades. “The rationale behind the I.A.A.F.’s ‘hyperandrogenism regulation’ is to make it sound more scientifically justifiable and less discriminatory, but nothing in those exams has changed from the old policy except the name,” she says. “It’s still based on very rigid binary ideas about sex and gender.”

Critics of the I.A.A.F. policy argue that if sports officials were truly concerned about fairness, they would quit policing a handful of women with naturally high testosterone and instead rigorously investigate athletes suspected of taking drugs that indisputably enhance performance. They note that in the last year, the I.A.A.F. has faced bribery and blackmail charges and widespread allegations that it intentionally ignored hundreds of suspicious blood tests.

Stéphane Bermon, an I.A.A.F. witness who took part in the efforts to identify females with high testosterone, acknowledged that doping was a significant threat to fairness but said that didn’t negate the need to also regulate the participation of women with naturally high testosterone who may have an advantage. He offered an analogy: “Air pollution, like tobacco smoking, contributes to lung cancer, but one should never have to choose between these two before implementing prevention measures,” he wrote in an email. “As a governing body, I.A.A.F. has to do its best to ensure a level playing field. ... These two topics are different but can lead to the same consequence, which is the impossibility for a dedi­cated athlete to compete and succeed against an opponent who benefits from an unfair advantage.”

Last July, the Court of Arbitration for Sport issued its ruling in Dutee Chand’s case. The three-judge panel concluded that although natural testosterone may play some role in athleticism, just what that role is, and how influential it is, remains unknown. As a result, the judges said that the I.A.A.F.’s policy was not justified by current scien­tific research: “While the evidence indicates that higher levels of naturally occurring testosterone may increase athletic performance, the Panel is not satisfied that the degree of that advantage is more significant than the advantage derived from the numerous other variables which the parties acknowledge also affect female athletic performance: for example, nutrition, access to specialist training facilities and coaching and other genetic and biological variations.”

The judges concluded that requiring women like Chand to change their bodies in order to compete was unjustifiably discriminatory. The panel sus­pended the policy until July 2017 to give the I.A.A.F. time to prove that the degree of competitive advantage conferred by naturally high testosterone in women was comparable to men’s advantage. If the I.A.A.F. doesn’t supply that evidence, the court said, the regulation “shall be declared void.” It was the first time the court had ever overruled a sport-governing body’s entire policy.

Chand was thrilled. “This wasn’t just about me,” she said, “but about all women like me, who come from difficult backgrounds. It is mostly people from poor backgrounds who come into running — people who know they will get food, housing, a job, if they run well. Richer people can pay their way to become doctors, engineers; poor people don’t even know about their own medical challenges.”

Chand hoped that the ruling would prompt the I.O.C. to suspend its testosterone policy, too, so she would be eligible to try to qualify for the Rio Games. After all, the I.O.C. policy — which also called on national Olympic committees to “investigate any perceived deviation in sex characteristics” — was based on the same science that the court deemed inadequate.

In November 2015, the I.O.C. established new parameters for dealing with gender. But it never actually addressed whether it would suspend its testosterone policy, as the I.A.A.F. was forced to do. That ambiguity left intersex athletes in limbo. Finally, in late February, the I.O.C. said it would not regulate women’s natural testosterone levels “until the issues of the case are resolved.” It urged the I.A.A.F. to come up with the evidence by the court’s deadline so the suspended policy could be resurrected. It also said that to avoid discrimination, high-testosterone women who are ineligible to compete against women should be eligible to compete against men.

Advocates for intersex women were dismayed. “It’s ridiculous,” says Payoshni Mitra, the Indian researcher. “They say the policy is not for testing gender — but saying that a hyperandrogenic woman can compete as a man, not a woman, inherently means they think she really is a man, not a woman. It brings back the debate around an athlete’s gender, publicly humiliating her in the process.” Emmanuelle Moreau, head of media relations for the I.O.C., disagreed, writing in an email, “It is a question of eligibility, not gender or (biological) sex.”

A separate section of the I.O.C. gender guidelines addressed a different group of atypical women (and atypical men): transgender athletes. Unlike the intersex section, the transgender section stresses the importance of human rights, nondiscrimination and inclusion. It eschews most of the I.O.C.’s former requirements, including that trans competitors have their ovaries or testicles removed and undergo surgery so their external genitalia matches their gender identity. In the new guidelines, female-to-male athletes face no restrictions of any kind; male-to-female athletes have some restrictions, including suppressing their testosterone levels below the typi­cal male range. And once they’ve declared their gender as female, they can’t change it again for four years if they want to compete in sports.

Reactions among trans advocates ran the gamut. Many trans advocates viewed the liberalized regulations as a victory. But some trans­women athletes who long ago had their testicles removed (and as a result, make virtually no testosterone) were unhappy with the policy; they argued that lifting the surgery requirement gave transwomen who still had testosterone-producing testicles an unfair advantage over trans­women who didn’t. And still other advocates said that requiring transwomen to suppress their testosterone below 10 nanomoles is premised on the very same claim about testosterone that the court rejected — that naturally made testosterone is the primary cause of men’s competitive advantage over women.

Without evidence that “male range” testosterone levels really do provide that advantage, some say it’s premature to base a policy on speculation — especially one that requires people to transform their bodies. In May, the Canadian Center for Ethics in Sports, which manages the country’s antidoping program and recommends ethics standards, issued trans-related guidelines for all Canadian sports organizations. The statement says policies that regulate eligibility, like those related to hormones, should be backed by defensible science. It adds, “There is simply not the evidence to suggest whether, or to what degree, hormone levels consistently confer competitive advantage.” And yet it’s hard to imagine that many female athletes would easily accept the idea of competing against transwomen athletes without those regulations in place.

Those debates are far from Chand’s thoughts. Her focus now is on making the most of the window the ruling provides: allowing her to try to qualify for next month’s Olympics without having to change her body. In the miserable months after her test results were revealed, Chand’s training time and concentration were interrupted, and her hope of ever competing seemed out of reach. Once the ruling was issued, though, she returned to the Indian national team, and intensified her training for the 100 meters, the 200 meters and the 400-meter relay. In addition to working out six hours a day, she tries to relax with naps and Facebook. She has made frequent trips to nations holding qualifying competitions. In May, she competed in India, China and Taiwan; in June, in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. She has until July 11 to meet the I.O.C. time requirement.

She is painfully aware that if she doesn’t make this summer’s Olympics, she may not have an­­other chance. The I.A.A.F. may still come up with evidence that satisfies the court and would exclude women like her from competing without altering their bodies. Chand’s best shot to qualify for Rio is in the 100 meters, which she must complete in 11.32 seconds or less. She remains one-hundredth of a second short.

Note: On June 25, Dutee Chand qualified for the Rio Olympics, running the 100 meters in 11.30 seconds in Almaty, Kazakhstan, and breaking a national record for India. Later that day, she posted an even faster time of 11.24 seconds. She will be the first Indian woman to run the 100 meters in the Olympics since 1980.




--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26344373 - 11/25/19 10:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Gender may be malleable but sex isn’t.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_sex-determination_system

Males = XY
Females = XX

Quote:

In humans, the presence of the Y chromosome is responsible for triggering male development; in the absence of the Y chromosome, the fetus will undergo female development




Pretending otherwise is as stupid a climate change denial or not believing in evolution. It’s just liberal stupidity instead conservative stupidity.

We need to get past the fear of being labeled a bigot. You can call me a bigot and transphobic asshole all day. Whether you’re male or female is determined by your chromosomes. We’ve known this with complete certainty for over a century.

Of course their will be anomalies, but that’s not the main subject at hand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nettie_Stevens

If you can’t accept this you might as well be a flat earther. Wearing a fucking wig doesn’t make you a woman ffs




Here.  I fixed the scientific inaccuracy for you.

Now you don’t have to autistically sperg anymore.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow]
    #26344378 - 11/25/19 10:54 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
I never debated the known science.
I do have a problem with you coming in spouting about it like we don’t know about the existence of hermaphrodites.  Everything you’ve said is just general science and you’ve been very haughty and arrogant about it. 

I never attempted to discredit your character.  I don’t know what you mean.

In all honesty, you do a good enough job of discrediting your own character, you don’t need my help.






--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344388 - 11/25/19 10:58 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

lowbrow said:
I never debated the known science.
I do have a problem with you coming in spouting about it like we don’t know about the existence of hermaphrodites.  Everything you’ve said is just general science and you’ve been very haughty and arrogant about it. 

I never attempted to discredit your character.  I don’t know what you mean.

In all honesty, you do a good enough job of discrediting your own character, you don’t need my help.








What a silly response.  And after all that sperging too.

You really didn’t follow this conversation at all.  Awaiting the next belated response with bells on my shoes.


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Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera] * 1
    #26344397 - 11/25/19 11:04 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Trans ideology (along with broader progressive left  wing social justice) is ridiculous. Ideologically tyrannical, anti liberty. I feel bad for the people whose clearly lamentable condition has been weaponised by political radicals


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow]
    #26344400 - 11/25/19 11:05 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I'm going to be so pissed when they ruin women's tennis. Some guy ranked #325 in the world is going to switch to the women's game and make millions.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #26344405 - 11/25/19 11:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mongo lloyd said:
Trans ideology (along with broader progressive left  wing social justice) is ridiculous. Ideologically tyrannical, anti liberty. I feel bad for the people whose clearly lamentable condition has been weaponised by political radicals




Lamentable in what way?


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow]
    #26344409 - 11/25/19 11:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Idk man.  That’s tough.  I think natural intersex individuals are about the only exception.  Still if the T is what’s responsible for their performance and they aren’t PEDing I guess it’s ok to have them be an exception.  She does have an unfair advantage but such is genetics.  I don’t think that grays up the whole M to F trans being unfair though


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: qman]
    #26344410 - 11/25/19 11:08 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I'm going to be so pissed when they ruin women's tennis. Some guy ranked #325 in the world is going to switch to the women's game and make millions.




That'll never happen. Women, with vaginas and boobs, are already getting thrown out of women's events for having too much testosterone or the wrong combination of chromosomes.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344416 - 11/25/19 11:09 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I still don’t think a dorito is a pizza though , change my mind.


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26344419 - 11/25/19 11:11 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Bro, Doritos are in the shape of a slice of pizza, they are made from a loaf, just like pizza, and they have cheese on top, also like pizza. Start the thread.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344424 - 11/25/19 11:14 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

qman said:
I'm going to be so pissed when they ruin women's tennis. Some guy ranked #325 in the world is going to switch to the women's game and make millions.




That'll never happen. Women, with vaginas and boobs, are already getting thrown out of women's events for having too much testosterone or the wrong combination of chromosomes.




I think women's tennis already has some guidelines for it, it's not impossible but it's difficult.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344426 - 11/25/19 11:15 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

i thought it was hilarious they used randy savage as the trans


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26344428 - 11/25/19 11:16 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Idk man.  That’s tough.  I think natural intersex individuals are about the only exception.  Still if the T is what’s responsible for their performance and they aren’t PEDing I guess it’s ok to have them be an exception.  She does have an unfair advantage but such is genetics.  I don’t think that grays up the whole M to F trans being unfair though



This was never part of this conversation though.  It got shoe-horned in through someone suffering from intellectual insecurity.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Dorfnob]
    #26344430 - 11/25/19 11:17 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dorfnob said:
i thought it was hilarious they used randy savage as the trans




Fuck yeah, dude. The episode is my favorite of the season. I was cracking up.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26344452 - 11/25/19 11:29 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

mongo lloyd said:
Trans ideology (along with broader progressive left  wing social justice) is ridiculous. Ideologically tyrannical, anti liberty. I feel bad for the people whose clearly lamentable condition has been weaponised by political radicals




Lamentable in what way?



To go through an experience where you realise both your physical body and social standing feel wrong and have to be changed through intensive medical procedures and social upheaval... that sounds pretty horrible for anyone to go through. Fuck that, I'm glad I don't want to cut my knob off


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: mongo lloyd]
    #26344465 - 11/25/19 11:36 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I guess. It's not something I'm compelled to do either. I'm not sure it's anti-liberty though.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26344623 - 11/25/19 01:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate? ...




Yeah,
but the reason they dominate is because the law dictates they have to fight against their birth gender, rather than fighting other men that they identify as
so they get jacked up on testosterone and dominate women's matches

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/25/transgender-wrestler-mack-beggs-wins-texas-girls-title

Quote:

For the second year in a row, a transgender wrestler has won the Texas girls’ Class 6A 110lbs division.

Mack Beggs, an 18-year-old senior from Euless Trinity High School near Dallas, entered the tournament in Cypress outside of Houston with an undefeated record. He beat Chelsea Sanchez – who he beat for the title in 2017 – in the final match on Saturday.

Video posted online showed a mix of cheers and boos from the crowd following Beggs’ win.

Beggs is in the process of transitioning from female to male and taking a low-dose of testosterone. It was his steroid therapy treatments while wrestling girls that stirred a fierce debate about competitive fairness and transgender rights last season. His march to a state championship was dogged by a last-minute lawsuit that tried to stop him.

Beggs asked to wrestle in the boys’ division but the rules for Texas public high schools require athletes to compete under the gender on their birth certificate.

He entered this year’s state tournament with a 32-0 record, beating three female wrestlers on his way to the championship.


“He has so much respect for all the girls he wrestles,” said Beggs’ mother, Angela McNew. “People think Mack has been beating up on girls … The girls he wrestles with, they are tough. It has more to do with skill and discipline than strength.”

McNew would not make Beggs available for interviews. The solitude allowed him to concentrate on the task ahead and perhaps shield him from attacks on social media and occasional insults from the stands – or even other wrestling mats – during meets.

Beggs’ road to the championship last season included two forfeits in the regional tournament by wrestlers who feared injury. Beggs faced only one forfeit this season. The opposing coach and team-mates had insisted the girl wrestle Beggs but she refused, McNew said.

The birth certificate rule was approved in 2016 by the University Interscholastic League, the governing body for Texas high school sports. It was done to help schools determine competition, said Jamie Harrison, UIL deputy director.

Last year, Beggs told ESPN: “[Texas policymakers] should change the laws and then watch me wrestle the boys. Because I’m a guy. It just makes more sense.”




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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26344630 - 11/25/19 01:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Is this actually happening? I get that it may pop up here and there, but you guys are blowing this out of proportion




Well, it's not politically correct to say that black people make better athletes because of their genes
but it is currently still politically correct to say that trans people make better athletes because of their genes

so the crowd that wants to talk shit, but is afraid of being politically incorrect, focus their attention on trans athletes now


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26344640 - 11/25/19 01:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Give me a fuckin break.  You posted an example of an UNFAIR advantage.  That wrestler will not dominate men he/she is a girl with jacked up T levels beating up on girls.  Of course says he wants to wrestle boys but I wonder how he will feel when he gets his ass handed to him at a collegiate level; let alone professional.  Yeah he might be glad he identifies a male but he will understand how unfair it is when he faces a male professional wrestler or mma fighter


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


Edited by theRealrollforever (11/25/19 01:15 PM)


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26344669 - 11/25/19 01:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Give me a fuckin break.  You posted an example of an UNFAIR advantage.  That wrestler will not dominate men he/she is a girl with jacked up T levels beating up on girls.  Of course says he wants to wrestle boys but I wonder how he will feel when he gets his ass handed to him at a collegiate level; let alone professional.  Yeah he might be glad he identifies a male but he will understand how unfair it is when he faces a male professional wrestler or mma fighter




Am not saying my agreement is not with you
but are you saying you would, as an observer, rather watch him fight girls and stomp all of them
or watch him fight guys, stomp some and get stomped by others

interestingly, buff FTM individuals seem to be more into modeling than sports careers


perhaps they perceive the same thing you do

tho, also,
what weight class would a 5'0'' buffed up transman end up in while wrestling men?
is there a weight class for 6'0''+ transwoman, or are they getting thrown into the ring against 5'5'' cis women?


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26344697 - 11/25/19 01:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Give me a fuckin break.  You posted an example of an UNFAIR advantage.  That wrestler will not dominate men he/she is a girl with jacked up T levels beating up on girls.  Of course says he wants to wrestle boys but I wonder how he will feel when he gets his ass handed to him at a collegiate level; let alone professional.  Yeah he might be glad he identifies a male but he will understand how unfair it is when he faces a male professional wrestler or mma fighter




Well said. See if his mom still thinks it’s not about strength then.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26344771 - 11/25/19 02:05 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

MALE BONES ARE BIGGER AND STRONGER, in both size and density. Peak male bone mass is around 50% more than women’s, and women lose bone faster as we age. Black people have significantly stronger bones than whites: black women’s peak bone mass is the same as white men’s.

MEN HAVE BIGGER HEADS AND LONGER ARMS AND LEGS than women, relative to body size. Sources differ on comparative limb length but they all agree women have smaller, lighter heads & necks.

WOMENS ELBOWS AND SHOULDERS are slightly different from men’s. Our arms bend a little further from our bodies and are more mobile at both joints.

WOMEN HAVE A LONGER TORSO. Our skeleton accommodates extra reproductive organs and finds space to push things out of the way during pregnancy. It makes our legs shorter than men’s.

THE LARGER FEMALE PELVIS is better adapted for childbirth. It’s wider, longer, and held together by ligaments that soften during pregnancy, allowing the two halves to slide apart because of their narrow pelvis. Women’s slanted thigh bones put extra pressure on the knee joints, which have to rotate while men’s do not.

WOMEN’S SKULLS ARE THICKER by 10% but men tend to have a bony ridge on the brow line and a heavier jaw. The male forehead is likely to slope backwards; women’s are more vertical.

EYESIGHT:: Women’s colour perception and peripheral vision are better than men’s. Men do better on long distance focus. These may be evolutionary adaptations for childcare and hunting, respectively.

Is There A Difference Between Male and Female Muscles?
women are around 30-35% muscle by weight, while men are 40-50% muscle. This varies a lot by age, health, fitness, body type and genetics. Any averagely healthy person can build more muscle by exercising and, to an extent, change the composition of their muscles. But women can’t match the bulk or strength of men’s skeletal muscles – unless they artificially raise their androgens by a significant amount, which would be dangerous.

IT’S UNFASHIONABLE to say women can’t build strength & muscles like men – but it is demonstrably true, so I think it worth offering a little evidence.

male/female grip strength distribution Male vs female grip strength
Hand grip is one of the most widely-used markers for strength. The strongest 10% of females can only beat the bottom 10% of men! Weight for weight (lean body mass only), women’s grip remains pretty feeble compared to the men. These were large samples that included plenty of fit, young sportswomen with good upper body strength. Taking the 60 elite women separately, they were still only as good as an average to weak man.

In Olympic weightlifting, the biggest total weight achieved by a woman was 333kg by Zhou Lulu in the heaviest women’s body weight category, 75kg+. She also won the Clean & Jerk with 187kg, while Tatiana Kashirina lifted 151kg in the snatch.

You have to go down to men under 62kg to find a champion Zhou Lulu could beat, and under 56kg for a male champion Tatiana Kashirina could beat in the Snatch. Women of less than 75kg couldn’t beat any of the male winners, not even the smallest men.

INTENSIVE RESISTANCE TRAINING can elevate steroid secretion in both males & females but, as seen above, we’re simply not built for the muscular bulk and explosive strength of those who were born with a Y chromosome – and the female limit is a long, long way behind the male maximum.

MEN HAVE MASSIVE UPPER BODY STRENGTH ADVANTAGE, but women do (somewhat) better with our lower-body muscles. Females generally have 40% less skeletal muscle than males on the top half; 33% less below the waist. These data are often wrongly reported – it means men have 66% more upper-body muscle than women, and 50% more lower-body muscle.

MEN ALSO HAVE LOWER BODY STRENGTH ADVANTAGE. A 70kg elite male athlete can squat 35% more weight than a 70kg elite female; this goes up to 57% more when both athletes are 120kg.

MEN’S MUSCLES ARE MORE SOLID, due to a higher proportion of Type 2 fast-twitch fibres. This type of muscle fibre contains a lot of protein but not much blood. It can expand/contract rapidly with great force and generate its own energy, but it draws on the rest of the body for oxygen. Because of this, Type 2 muscle fibres get tired more quickly. Although it varies by body type & genetics, men’s muscles are, proportionally, about 50% more Type 2 than women’s.

WOMEN’S TYPE 1 MUSCLE FIBRES PROTECT HEALTH. Type 1 (slow-twitch) fibres are more loosely packed and have their own capillaries. This means they can keep going for a long time. They interact with other metabolic processes, which helps to protect against insulin resistance and heart disease, supports the immune system and promotes hormonal functions.

WOMEN ACTIVATE BOTH TYPES OF FIBRE. Olympic athletes aside, both female & male bodies use Type 1 fibres first, then shift to Type 2 when those get fatigued – but women have been found to switch between the two throughout exertion. This is the secret of our famed endurance: not the slow-twitch fibres themselves, but neuromuscular activity which uses all the fibres.

WOMEN ARE 90% AS FAST AS MEN. Across all speed events, women consistently achieve 90% of the men’s speeds. This seems to be where our multi-tasking muscle fibres come good, but they still can’t close that 10% gap.

Ligaments
WOMEN’S ARE THINNER AND SOFTER than men’s – apart from around our reproductive organs, where they can be phenomenally strong and elastic. At puberty our ligaments become “lax” compared to men’s. This would seem to be a hormonal effect designed to facilitate separation of the pelvic bones for childbirth – pity it weakens all of the ligaments all of the time, as our “laxity” causes joint instability. It’s responsible for a high number of sporting injuries.


Just sayin'.


--------------------
"We are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world.” - T. Mckenna


Edited by Aegis (11/25/19 02:19 PM)


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Aegis]
    #26344789 - 11/25/19 02:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Transgenders in sports is a circus.  and no one involved knows how to address it or even talk about it without saying something offensive I love it.
Surprised it took south park so long to parody it. saw a clip tho and looks like a pretty weak episode tbh. but thats what happens I guess when the real life situation is already at that level of absurdity.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: mt cleverest]
    #26345023 - 11/25/19 04:21 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I liked the episode! Give it a watch


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26345050 - 11/25/19 04:36 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate?  I was unable to find a single one.  It’s crazy to me that people are so wrapped up in the PC baby movement that they can’t recognize a simple double standard and that there will never be a biological female who dominates in a strictly male sports league.  I don’t dislike trans people at all, but on a strictly athletic level, they male to female converters have an insane advantage IMO even after hormone therapy.  I doubt that they’re testosterone levels are actually the same as bio women. It’s also even crazier the only south park touches on this fact in the media and that the olympics are allowing trans M to F and degrading the integrity of the women’s sports.  How do you feel?  Please show me a case of F to M success in sports after transitioning.  I’d love to be wrong



South Park is definitely right, at the end of the episode the pc babies didn’t care that the dad said he was tolerant but that it was unfair and stupid. He says I don’t understand? Strongwoman: I guess they must see the nuisance. That’s the point is people are babies about trans issues but even those people understand that it’s just ridiculous and we shouldn’t have to pretend to tolerate it to not look like a bigot. There’s two places in society trans people don’t get the right to. One is not telling someone what sex u are before you bang and then competitive sports especially mixed martial arts.

Funny episode tho


--------------------
R.I.P
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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26345079 - 11/25/19 04:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Post the pussy pic!  This thread is now about tasTy triangles


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26345085 - 11/25/19 04:53 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Nah man. You’ve confused this thread with the dorito thread.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera]
    #26345093 - 11/25/19 04:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Lmao I did
:lolsy:


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26345150 - 11/25/19 05:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate?  I was unable to find a single one.  It’s crazy to me that people are so wrapped up in the PC baby movement that they can’t recognize a simple double standard and that there will never be a biological female who dominates in a strictly male sports league.  I don’t dislike trans people at all, but on a strictly athletic level, they male to female converters have an insane advantage IMO even after hormone therapy.  I doubt that they’re testosterone levels are actually the same as bio women. It’s also even crazier the only south park touches on this fact in the media and that the olympics are allowing trans M to F and degrading the integrity of the women’s sports.  How do you feel?  Please show me a case of F to M success in sports after transitioning.  I’d love to be wrong



South Park is definitely right, at the end of the episode the pc babies didn’t care that the dad said he was tolerant but that it was unfair and stupid. He says I don’t understand? Strongwoman: I guess they must see the nuisance. That’s the point is people are babies about trans issues but even those people understand that it’s just ridiculous and we shouldn’t have to pretend to tolerate it to not look like a bigot. There’s two places in society trans people don’t get the right to. One is not telling someone what sex u are before you bang and then competitive sports especially mixed martial arts.

Funny episode tho



Actually the PC babies represented social justice warriors and the snowflake generation.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: lowbrow]
    #26345156 - 11/25/19 05:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah that’s what he’s saying I thought


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26345286 - 11/25/19 06:36 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate?  I was unable to find a single one.  It’s crazy to me that people are so wrapped up in the PC baby movement that they can’t recognize a simple double standard and that there will never be a biological female who dominates in a strictly male sports league.  I don’t dislike trans people at all, but on a strictly athletic level, they male to female converters have an insane advantage IMO even after hormone therapy.  I doubt that they’re testosterone levels are actually the same as bio women. It’s also even crazier the only south park touches on this fact in the media and that the olympics are allowing trans M to F and degrading the integrity of the women’s sports.  How do you feel?  Please show me a case of F to M success in sports after transitioning.  I’d love to be wrong



South Park is definitely right, at the end of the episode the pc babies didn’t care that the dad said he was tolerant but that it was unfair and stupid. He says I don’t understand? Strongwoman: I guess they must see the nuisance. That’s the point is people are babies about trans issues but even those people understand that it’s just ridiculous and we shouldn’t have to pretend to tolerate it to not look like a bigot. There’s two places in society trans people don’t get the right to. One is not telling someone what sex u are before you bang and then competitive sports especially mixed martial arts.

Funny episode tho



Actually the PC babies represented social justice warriors and the snowflake generation.



Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Yeah that’s what he’s saying I thought



Yup that is what I'm saying is even those PC babies in the world see the nuisance to the situation and people are starting to realize that being against trans athletes that grew up in a man's body and goes and wins a few tournaments like Ferrah Fox did isn't bigotry it's highlighting true injustice taking away from amazing women athletes. Sports is not a place for gender feelings and even the most PC people don't really jump to defend it because most see it for what it is.


--------------------
R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineCootermonkey
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26345729 - 11/25/19 10:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I think south park hit the nail on the head, as usual haha


--------------------
MyLAGM2020Growlog


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Cootermonkey] * 2
    #26345777 - 11/25/19 10:42 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

We already got nine year old drag queens, and we all know what comes after that one.



Ten year old drag queens


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26345781 - 11/25/19 10:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

lowbrow said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate?  I was unable to find a single one.  It’s crazy to me that people are so wrapped up in the PC baby movement that they can’t recognize a simple double standard and that there will never be a biological female who dominates in a strictly male sports league.  I don’t dislike trans people at all, but on a strictly athletic level, they male to female converters have an insane advantage IMO even after hormone therapy.  I doubt that they’re testosterone levels are actually the same as bio women. It’s also even crazier the only south park touches on this fact in the media and that the olympics are allowing trans M to F and degrading the integrity of the women’s sports.  How do you feel?  Please show me a case of F to M success in sports after transitioning.  I’d love to be wrong



South Park is definitely right, at the end of the episode the pc babies didn’t care that the dad said he was tolerant but that it was unfair and stupid. He says I don’t understand? Strongwoman: I guess they must see the nuisance. That’s the point is people are babies about trans issues but even those people understand that it’s just ridiculous and we shouldn’t have to pretend to tolerate it to not look like a bigot. There’s two places in society trans people don’t get the right to. One is not telling someone what sex u are before you bang and then competitive sports especially mixed martial arts.

Funny episode tho



Actually the PC babies represented social justice warriors and the snowflake generation.



Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Yeah that’s what he’s saying I thought



Yup that is what I'm saying is even those PC babies in the world see the nuisance to the situation and people are starting to realize that being against trans athletes that grew up in a man's body and goes and wins a few tournaments like Ferrah Fox did isn't bigotry it's highlighting true injustice taking away from amazing women athletes. Sports is not a place for gender feelings and even the most PC people don't really jump to defend it because most see it for what it is.




Sports participation is divided on gender lines. Sports seems to be one of the only places where gender feelings are still a legitimate factor


--------------------
NotSheekle said
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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26346437 - 11/26/19 10:16 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

We already got nine year old drag queens, and we all know what comes after that one.



Ten year old drag queens



Nope.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..


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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: FungiMaster] * 1
    #26346460 - 11/26/19 10:30 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha




Jeez dude it's 2019 you never spent some time around a gay man?

They are humans. I know, it's crazy but they are just like you and me.


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: FungiMaster]
    #26346462 - 11/26/19 10:31 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FungiMaster said:
Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha



:canthelpbutlaugh:




I guess if I had a gay room mate and they didn't have hiv I'd be tempted to have sex with them.




I missed this. Maybe you need to explore your gay feelings further.


--------------------


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: sh4d0ws] * 1
    #26346473 - 11/26/19 10:39 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sh4d0ws said:
Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha




Jeez dude it's 2019 you never spent some time around a gay man?

They are humans. I know, it's crazy but they are just like you and me.



Not when they’re in the next room over going at it with whoever they brought home.  I imagine it would be borderline traumatic, you wouldn’t know if they’re fighting or what over there..:whattefuck2:


--------------------
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: sh4d0ws] * 1
    #26346482 - 11/26/19 10:41 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sh4d0ws said:
Quote:

FungiMaster said:
Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha



:canthelpbutlaugh:




I guess if I had a gay room mate and they didn't have hiv I'd be tempted to have sex with them.




I missed this. Maybe you need to explore your gay feelings further.




He must go deeper.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26347166 - 11/26/19 05:07 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

a decent male college basketball player could go trans and go to the WNBA and she'd be dunking on them ladies like



:ohmy:


--------------------


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Amanita86]
    #26347212 - 11/26/19 05:34 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Quote:

sh4d0ws said:
Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha




Jeez dude it's 2019 you never spent some time around a gay man?

They are humans. I know, it's crazy but they are just like you and me.



Not when they’re in the next room over going at it with whoever they brought home.  I imagine it would be borderline traumatic, you wouldn’t know if they’re fighting or what over there..:whattefuck2:



Freud would say you have a repressed memory of hearing your dad getting raw dogged


--------------------
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Niffla] * 1
    #26347225 - 11/26/19 05:41 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
a decent male college basketball player could go trans and go to the WNBA and she'd be dunking on them ladies like



:ohmy:




A good high school player would go ham on their asses.


--------------------
[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: TheFakeSunRa]
    #26347241 - 11/26/19 05:49 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheFakeSunRa said:
Quote:

Niffla said:
a decent male college basketball player could go trans and go to the WNBA and she'd be dunking on them ladies like



:ohmy:




A good high school player would go ham on their asses.




a good high school player would be running his (well her I mean) own solo fast break like



the wnba fans would be all

:ohwow:


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26347302 - 11/26/19 06:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Quote:

sh4d0ws said:
Quote:

FungiMaster said:
lol. I looked up on Craigslist in SF room mates and came up with one too many gay men. I wonder what it's like having a gay room mate. Hope it's not like my moms cats that act all strange. hahaha




Jeez dude it's 2019 you never spent some time around a gay man?

They are humans. I know, it's crazy but they are just like you and me.



Not when they’re in the next room over going at it with whoever they brought home.  I imagine it would be borderline traumatic, you wouldn’t know if they’re fighting or what over there..:whattefuck2:



Freud would say you have a repressed memory of hearing your dad getting raw dogged



He would also say I NEED MORE COCAINE !!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
R.I.P
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Zappa
Slothie
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split_by_nine
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OfflineShiVersblood
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #26347487 - 11/26/19 07:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Like if a man started punching a girl in the face and beat her up and then said, “I beat up a girl. Wow, I really am strong!”


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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: ShiVersblood]
    #26347677 - 11/26/19 10:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It’s not wrong though because they identify as female also
:cookiemonster:


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,535
Loc: United States Flag
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Niffla] * 4
    #26349179 - 11/27/19 05:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
a decent male college basketball player could go trans and go to the WNBA and she'd be dunking on them ladies like



:ohmy:



This already happened before I watched a documentary about it called juwanna mann


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Offline1uptoadstool
procrastinator
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 09/01/19
Posts: 324
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: theRealrollforever]
    #26349603 - 11/27/19 09:53 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theRealrollforever said:
I was watching an episode of South Park and they touched on the issue of male to female trans athletes having an unfair advantage in athletic competition.  It made me wonder, ARE there any FEMALES who transition to MALE and dominate?  I was unable to find a single one.  It’s crazy to me that people are so wrapped up in the PC baby movement that they can’t recognize a simple double standard and that there will never be a biological female who dominates in a strictly male sports league.  I don’t dislike trans people at all, but on a strictly athletic level, they male to female converters have an insane advantage IMO even after hormone therapy.  I doubt that they’re testosterone levels are actually the same as bio women. It’s also even crazier the only south park touches on this fact in the media and that the olympics are allowing trans M to F and degrading the integrity of the women’s sports.  How do you feel?  Please show me a case of F to M success in sports after transitioning.  I’d love to be wrong





Theres more people speaking out about it. Joe Rogan goes off about it all the time and YouTube demonetises those podcasts. YouTube has also banned physicians for stating biological facts and deemed it hate speech. Mario Lopez lost his job for suggesting that maybe giving children hormones and puberty blocker isn't such a great idea. They called him a transphobe. The whole thing is psychotic. Trey Parker and Matt stone have balls southpark is great


--------------------


Edited by 1uptoadstool (11/27/19 10:09 PM)


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Offline1uptoadstool
procrastinator
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 09/01/19
Posts: 324
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26349624 - 11/27/19 10:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Is this actually happening? I get that it may pop up here and there, but you guys are blowing this out of proportion




The equality act of 2019 would prohibit organisations from denying trans women to complete against biological women. It passed the house but I don't think it passed the Senate.


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Invisibledeucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,594
Loc: UK
Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: 1uptoadstool]
    #26349693 - 11/27/19 11:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Theres more people speaking out about it. Joe Rogan goes off about it all the time and YouTube demonetises those podcasts. YouTube has also banned physicians for stating biological facts and deemed it hate speech. Mario Lopez lost his job for suggesting that maybe giving children hormones and puberty blocker isn't such a great idea. They called him a transphobe. The whole thing is psychotic. Trey Parker and Matt stone have balls southpark is great




I listened to a radio programme discussing "Detransitioning" recently.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bmy9

"File on 4 has spoken to some who now regret the taking of cross-sex hormones or undergoing surgery, and who are now detransitioning. They and experts working in the field of gender identity fear that other mental health issues are not being adequately explored before life-changing decisions are made and have told the BBC more help is needed for this vulnerable group".


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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Offlinespirit_shadow
Feature not a bug
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,665
Last seen: 1 hour, 12 minutes
Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: deucedbi9]
    #26349706 - 11/27/19 11:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

There is an easy solution here: have the women surgically implant brass knuckles on themselves to "transition" to cyborg then beat the shit out of that guy.


--------------------
ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


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Offlinekoods
Ribbit
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: 1uptoadstool]
    #26349974 - 11/28/19 05:49 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Quote:

koods said:
Is this actually happening? I get that it may pop up here and there, but you guys are blowing this out of proportion




The equality act of 2019 would prohibit organisations from denying trans women to complete against biological women. It passed the house but I don't think it passed the Senate.




That’s not what I asked


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflinePsyche delics
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Registered: 09/24/15
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26350064 - 11/28/19 07:17 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Id imagine a gay man would be a perfect roommate


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Offlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
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Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Psyche delics]
    #26350079 - 11/28/19 07:25 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I’m alright. I got along better with my straight roommates, actually.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineliving_failure
unworthy
Male


Registered: 06/13/19
Posts: 352
Loc: spain, madrid
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: koods]
    #26350164 - 11/28/19 08:36 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Testosterone, HGH, DHT and insuline are anabolic.And three of those are more present in people with testicles that without them.
Far as i know, even if they are necessary for the joints, estrogens and other ovarian hormones are not anabolic and favour liquid retention and are often linked to emotional unstability.

A XY with vagina and underdeveloped testes have advantage over normal XX. As do XYX, XY with testes removed or XX who takes HRT.
Honestly, XX with ovarian is almost the weakest combination of chromosomes and sex organs (worst is single Y followed by single X)

Separating athletes by this criteroa is pointless. Is like choosing an inferior product, it makes no sense in the olympic spirit.


Edited by living_failure (11/28/19 08:41 AM)


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Invisiblemt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: Niffla]
    #26351314 - 11/29/19 12:42 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Niffla said:
a decent male college basketball player could go trans and go to the WNBA and she'd be dunking on them ladies like



:ohmy:



holy shit that could be best dunk ever?


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Invisiblemt cleverest
clevendafodil

Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: Trans M to F athletes are cheaters; South Park only sane media in backwards PC movement [Re: mt cleverest]
    #26351315 - 11/29/19 12:43 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

he had to push him on the floor


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