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MarvelousMagpie
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Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning
#26342688 - 11/24/19 02:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello guys and gals, thank you all so much for your fantastic TEKs and posts, they've gotten me a long way!
I have colonized popcorn birthed into mix of pasteurized vermiculite(soaked to field capacity) and gypsum in a 6qt shoebox, wondering if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions for tweaking my setup. Have some good little guys happening but not sure how to get a nice even flush like some of the fantastic photos I've seen on here.

Thanks again for any advice or thoughts you may have!
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JohnRainy
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You have to keep trying different isolates. Some strains fruit prolifically and some not so much.
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MarvelousMagpie
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: JohnRainy]
#26342707 - 11/24/19 03:00 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ahh, I wondered if that might be part of it, lovely, thank you!
I've got a couple more tubs coming up and a few more bags all of different isolates working their way through the process. I guess when a good one comes through I'll have to dip my toe into cloning.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
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It's unlikely that what you have are isolates unless you transferred each one on agar dozens of times. Best way to get thick flushes, whether its MS, a clone, isolate, etc. is to work on clean spawn and optimal surface conditions.
Pure verm is a terrible sub and worse casing. You'll see better results with a mix of verm and coco used as the sub and casing.
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curious.psychonaut
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: natedawgnow]
#26342759 - 11/24/19 03:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarvelousMagpie said: Ahh, I wondered if that might be part of it, lovely, thank you!
I've got a couple more tubs coming up and a few more bags all of different isolates working their way through the process. I guess when a good one comes through I'll have to dip my toe into cloning.
Beauties! Did you start from spores or really from isolates/clones? If spores, you can go right ahead and clone the best-looking shrooms (check TEKs, if you haven't, because there are a few tricks to do it cleanly). You don't know how any of the fruits you see will perform in isolation.
-------------------- My LAGM2020 grow log
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cronicr



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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: natedawgnow]
#26342764 - 11/24/19 03:27 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: It's unlikely that what you have are isolates unless you transferred each one on agar dozens of times. Best way to get thick flushes, whether its MS, a clone, isolate, etc. is to work on clean spawn and optimal surface conditions.
Pure verm is a terrible sub and worse casing. You'll see better results with a mix of verm and coco used as the sub and casing.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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JohnRainy
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: natedawgnow]
#26342766 - 11/24/19 03:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah.
What's the word then?
If you germinate spores, then take a small piece of what grows out, you do not have a PURE isolate, but never-the-less, some isolation has taken place.
That's what most of us work with here. What's the word for it? Strain-complex, partial isolate?
I think the word isolate works, and pure isolate could be used to distinguish between the two.
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cronicr



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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: JohnRainy]
#26342772 - 11/24/19 03:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: Yeah.
What's the word then?
If you germinate spores, then take a small piece of what grows out, you do not have a PURE isolate, but never-the-less, some isolation has taken place.
That's what most of us work with here. What's the word for it? Strain-complex, partial isolate?
I think the word isolate works, and pure isolate could be used to distinguish between the two.
Multispore monoculture
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: JohnRainy]
#26342776 - 11/24/19 03:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you put spores to agar and did one transfer you still have a MS culture. If you do 10 transfers you have a limited-MS culture. If you transfer down to one set of genetics, you have an isolate.
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A.k.a
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: JohnRainy]
#26342779 - 11/24/19 03:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Coir. And super level surface helped me a lot with pinset.
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LAGM2020     
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JohnRainy
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: natedawgnow]
#26342795 - 11/24/19 03:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you put spores to agar and did one transfer you still have a MS culture. If you do 10 transfers you have a limited-MS culture. If you transfer down to one set of genetics, you have an isolate.
OK, but what distinguishes MS when you put spores to grain, and MS when you partially isolate some mycelium from agar that grew out from spores?
MS stand for 'multi-spore', right?
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cronicr



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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: JohnRainy]
#26342802 - 11/24/19 03:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Two spores create a dikaryon , 2 million can make 1 million dikaryons. So multiple dikaryons on grain took multiple spores to get there
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JohnRainy
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: cronicr]
#26342827 - 11/24/19 03:48 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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What?
What does that have to do with our nomenclature?
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: JohnRainy]
#26342832 - 11/24/19 03:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you put spores to grain, it's a MS inoculation. If you put spores on agar, transferred 10+ times, then put it to grain, it's a limited-MS inoculation.
The only way to get an isolate or true monoculture is to use agar and transfer down to single sets of genetics
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cronicr



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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: JohnRainy]
#26342841 - 11/24/19 03:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am saying nothing distinguishes the two. You still have multiple genetics on grain whether you used agar or spore solution. 1 set if genetics= isolate More than 1 set=multispore 1 species per plate= monoculture( in literal terms monoculture translates to a clean culture not necessarily an isolate)
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MarvelousMagpie
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: natedawgnow]
#26342843 - 11/24/19 03:58 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ah fair enough, not quite isolates sorry, though they are agar transfers.
Not been having the easiest time getting coir here, and was nervous about it after seriously struggling with mold on coir my amaryllis plant came potted in. But I think now that I've gotten my other methods dialed in I should give it a try. Might just have to bite the bullet and order some online.
Thanks for the tip!
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natedawgnow
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: cronicr]
#26342862 - 11/24/19 04:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Cron that bit about monocultures is only true in the agri industrial definition of the word. A genetic monoculture still means a single set of genetics. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoculture#Genetic_Monocultures
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MarvelousMagpie
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Thanks curious.psychonaut!
I started with a spore print on agar and then agar to agar transfers. I have 3 spawned bags (the photo is the most mature one), a few inoculated bags coming up, and a handful of colonized agar plates in the fridge.
I think before I use the agar plates I'll wait and see how my current grows fare, if I get some really good fruiters it would be fun to try cloning. I'm fortunate enough to have access to a laminar flow hood and an autoclave which really simplifies some of the process. It's the cobbling together of TEKs and techniques that fit the materials and growing space available to me that's been the adventure!
(ps. sorry guys, clearly I don't know what I'm doing lol, how do I quote the post I'm replying to specifically? Will have to go read the how-tos more thoroughly...)
Edited by MarvelousMagpie (11/24/19 04:13 PM)
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MarvelousMagpie
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: A.k.a]
#26342909 - 11/24/19 04:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: Coir. And super level surface helped me a lot with pinset.
Thanks, that's a beautiful set you have there!
PS - I think I figured out the quoting, thanks for your patience peeps.
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A.k.a
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Make sure if you get coir it’s the kind made for pets like reptiles. Apparently there are types for gardening that come with trich in it already because it benefits some plants.
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LAGM2020     
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MarvelousMagpie
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: A.k.a]
#26342945 - 11/24/19 04:34 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: Make sure if you get coir it’s the kind made for pets like reptiles. Apparently there are types for gardening that come with trich in it already because it benefits some plants.
Oh that's a good tip! I definitely just put the plant kind in my amazon cart, that would have sucked...
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cronicr



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Nothing wrong with the plant type. Trich is killed off at pastirinzing temps
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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MarvelousMagpie
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Re: Tips for Fuller Flush/Pinning [Re: cronicr]
#26342970 - 11/24/19 04:43 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Nothing wrong with the plant type. Trich is killed off at pastirinzing temps
Oh I suppose it would wouldn't it? Though, I wonder if it matters that I'm the world's LAZIEST pasteurizer.. does dumping boiling water on my sub and leaving it in a slow cooker on low until I remember to turn it off count? I mean probably, it's been working so far. But I haven't been applying very scientific methods to it. lol. I'll make sure to borrow my infrared thermometer from work the next time I'm pasteurizing, just to make sure I'm holding the right temp for long enough.
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cronicr



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Even if it didn't, trich hates terminating on coir which is why it's added in the first place and your pots don't mold and we spawn and fruit in open air so Reich will be there regardless
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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mushboy
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It's fine dont overthink
Coir+boiling water(or just room temp)=good2go mushroom substrate. Its impossible to fuck up.
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curious.psychonaut
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Quote:
MarvelousMagpie said: [...] if I get some really good fruiters it would be fun to try cloning.
I was trying to say that you don't really know whether the mushies you got from the multi-spore culture are really from strains that are bad fruiters. Apart from the sub-optimal substrate, the flush might be sparse because of the other strains present.
It may be that none of your tubs will produce a full, even canopy, but that doesn't necessarily mean you don't have the genetics of good fruiters there. If you clone a few of the best shrooms from each tub and start trying them out, you will probably find something good. That's my understanding at least, I'm still waiting on my first harvest!
-------------------- My LAGM2020 grow log
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