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Rot
Worlds best trichoderma farmer


Registered: 11/09/18
Posts: 908
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Giving up on grains
#26339566 - 11/23/19 07:18 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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So this is pretty disheartening when I've spent months growing out my agar, waiting for the grain to colonize, never had a freaking contam EVER before getting a at least a first flush when using BRF to bulk.
My grain jars looked perfect, had no mold or anything, my agar was carefully grown out and now all of my tubs have mold. It is some kind of pin mold with little black heads, and it also has some form of green mold.
I'm not going to be doing grains again but does anyone know why these all contamed in the very last stage?
https://i.imgur.com/2BlSwjq.png
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339574 - 11/23/19 07:24 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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What kind of grain are you using? What's your prep like? What are you using as filter material? I wouldn't give up, I would troubleshoot the issue.
Most cultivators go through a contam phase. I had a solid year a few years back where my success rate was 50% or less. It happens, dude. Best thing is to change 1 or 2 variables at a time to narrow down the source. I'd start with filters.
Back when I had my issue I was using sfd siliconed onto metal lids. Terrible. After getting fed up and finally switching my filters to tightly stuffed poly covered with a round of ez felt, I haven't had any issues.
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Hobbit GDF
Deadhead



Registered: 02/14/19
Posts: 3,385
Loc: Terrapin station
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339576 - 11/23/19 07:27 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Out of 12 tubs 10 got mold after first flush. One before it. I just had 10 fully colonized qt jars of oats have mold. I feel ya rot. This is with oats. Which I like better than brf and wbs. Good luck
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Hobbit GDF] 2
#26339596 - 11/23/19 07:44 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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All that can be said is your problems are not BECAUSE of grains.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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Rot
Worlds best trichoderma farmer


Registered: 11/09/18
Posts: 908
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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This was Rye berries. I am fully aware that contams happen and ways to prevent it from happening, but this is like $200+ spent and nearly 3 months of waiting to waste my damn time. I could of had 3-4 successful BRF grows in that time.
I was led to believe that grains were so much faster and amazing than brf. This has been nothing but a headache.
I was relying on taking a clone from this grow so now I have to start from square one and order more damn spores and spend 1-2 months growing it out on agar.
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insutama
No pain no gain



Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 1,207
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339606 - 11/23/19 07:51 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rot said: This was Rye berries. I am fully aware that contams happen and ways to prevent it from happening, but this is like $200+ spent and nearly 3 months of waiting to waste my damn time. I could of had 3-4 successful BRF grows in that time.
I was led to believe that grains were so much faster and amazing than brf. This has been nothing but a headache.
I was relying on taking a clone from this grow so now I have to start from square one and order more damn spores and spend 1-2 months growing it out on agar.
PM me and ill send you some spores buddy no need to spend any money
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339607 - 11/23/19 07:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you using agar?
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Rot
Worlds best trichoderma farmer


Registered: 11/09/18
Posts: 908
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: insutama]
#26339617 - 11/23/19 07:58 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Are you using agar?
Yes. I did MS to agar, then did 2 transfers. Had beautiful rhizo growth.
I'm going to attempt to take a transfer from my old agar that has been sitting for a while.
Quote:
insutama said:
Quote:
Rot said: This was Rye berries. I am fully aware that contams happen and ways to prevent it from happening, but this is like $200+ spent and nearly 3 months of waiting to waste my damn time. I could of had 3-4 successful BRF grows in that time.
I was led to believe that grains were so much faster and amazing than brf. This has been nothing but a headache.
I was relying on taking a clone from this grow so now I have to start from square one and order more damn spores and spend 1-2 months growing it out on agar.
PM me and ill send you some spores buddy no need to spend any money
I greatly appreciate that offer. Let me attempt to do a transfer today and if that fails I will definitely hit you up.
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PsyduckMonkey
witch



Registered: 10/12/18
Posts: 273
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339630 - 11/23/19 08:10 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Man your problems have nothing to do with grains, and everything to do with substrate. I suspect you partially sterilized the thing. Pasteurizing substrate properly is a bloody chore, but it's unskippable.
Several of the pasteurization teks here are of questionable repeatability, as it really depends on your specific stove, your specific ambient temperature, your specific kettle. You need to babysit it, with a thermometer in the water bath, and a thermometer in the middle of a substrate jar. All of the substrate need to be above 140F for at least an hour, and none of it can go above 170F for more than a few minutes. If it went above 170, it's garbage, nothing can be done to fix it.
-------------------- Do you believe in the Third Summer of Love?
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SpunkyMonkey88
Stranger



Registered: 10/08/19
Posts: 1,331
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Quote:
PsyduckMonkey said: Man your problems have nothing to do with grains, and everything to do with substrate. I suspect you partially sterilized the thing. Pasteurizing substrate properly is a bloody chore, but it's unskippable.
Several of the pasteurization teks here are of questionable repeatability, as it really depends on your specific stove, your specific ambient temperature, your specific kettle. You need to babysit it, with a thermometer in the water bath, and a thermometer in the middle of a substrate jar. All of the substrate need to be above 140F for at least an hour, and none of it can go above 170F for more than a few minutes. If it went above 170, it's garbage, nothing can be done to fix it.
Or you could just dump 3 qts of boiling water in a bucket with a brick of coir...
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SpunkyMonkey88
Stranger



Registered: 10/08/19
Posts: 1,331
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339639 - 11/23/19 08:17 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rot said: So this is pretty disheartening when I've spent months growing out my agar, waiting for the grain to colonize, never had a freaking contam EVER before getting a at least a first flush when using BRF to bulk.
My grain jars looked perfect, had no mold or anything, my agar was carefully grown out and now all of my tubs have mold. It is some kind of pin mold with little black heads, and it also has some form of green mold.
I'm not going to be doing grains again but does anyone know why these all contamed in the very last stage?
https://i.imgur.com/2BlSwjq.png
Bro I'm interested in how many grams you get per cake spawned to bulk?
Edited by SpunkyMonkey88 (11/23/19 08:18 AM)
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Doyledozo
Humble student



Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 156
Last seen: 7 months, 18 days
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If my shoeboxes go south ill be in the same boat. Having a very hard time putting MS syringes to agar. My expections have gotten so low i'll be happy to wind up with a print and a clone. Starting over from scratch would be very disheartening.
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SFS96
AstroMan



Registered: 12/09/18
Posts: 2,144
Loc: Valleys Of Neptune
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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coir/verm doesn’t require pasteurization. Almost anyone who uses coir just bucket teks it but you don’t even have to do that. With coir you can literally just add water and use it. Pasteurization is required for shit and other substrates but not coir.
-------------------- How I make and preserve tea
Consuming consumes a man That was never a purpose of life To only crave for material joys Is believing the lie - Mellow Mood
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PsyduckMonkey
witch



Registered: 10/12/18
Posts: 273
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339656 - 11/23/19 08:32 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rot said: this is like $200+ spent and nearly 3 months of waiting to waste my damn time. I could of had 3-4 successful BRF grows in that time.
I was led to believe that grains were so much faster and amazing than brf. This has been nothing but a headache.
Sorry I'm quite lost here. What on Earth did you spend 3 months and 200 bucks on? You didn't have a pressure cooker and just bought one? A jar, when handled correctly, will colonize fully in a week from LC, and in two weeks from an agar wedge. Isolating strains on agar can be slower, but not 3 months...
The way your tub looks, you got a contam pretty much right after spawning... If the grains had a good smell, the fault is 100% in your substrate.
Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said: Or you could just dump 3 qts of boiling water in a bucket with a brick of coir...
That only works with coir. Speaking of which, @Rot what was your substrate?
-------------------- Do you believe in the Third Summer of Love?
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Rot
Worlds best trichoderma farmer


Registered: 11/09/18
Posts: 908
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Quote:
PsyduckMonkey said:
Quote:
Rot said: this is like $200+ spent and nearly 3 months of waiting to waste my damn time. I could of had 3-4 successful BRF grows in that time.
I was led to believe that grains were so much faster and amazing than brf. This has been nothing but a headache.
Sorry I'm quite lost here. What on Earth did you spend 3 months and 200 bucks on? You didn't have a pressure cooker and just bought one? A jar, when handled correctly, will colonize fully in a week from LC, and in two weeks from an agar wedge. Isolating strains on agar can be slower, but not 3 months...
The way your tub looks, you got a contam pretty much right after spawning... If the grains had a good smell, the fault is 100% in your substrate.
Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said: Or you could just dump 3 qts of boiling water in a bucket with a brick of coir...
That only works with coir. Speaking of which, @Rot what was your substrate?
Coir.
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PsyduckMonkey
witch



Registered: 10/12/18
Posts: 273
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Re: Giving up on grains [Re: Rot]
#26339681 - 11/23/19 08:51 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rot said:
Quote:
PsyduckMonkey said: That only works with coir. Speaking of which, @Rot what was your substrate?
Coir.
How did you prepare it?
-------------------- Do you believe in the Third Summer of Love?
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SpunkyMonkey88
Stranger



Registered: 10/08/19
Posts: 1,331
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Quote:
PsyduckMonkey said:
Quote:
Rot said:
Quote:
PsyduckMonkey said: That only works with coir. Speaking of which, @Rot what was your substrate?
Coir.
How did you prepare it?
Dude I seriously doubt he contaminated his tubs with his coir...
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alaskappalachian
Entitiologist


Registered: 10/22/19
Posts: 1,674
Loc: The 49th Dimension
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...what are your temps? I dunno... if yo're making it through colonization just fine and then growing mold, you might be having an issue with high temps and not enough fae... What was your ratio for that tub anyway?
Don't let me talk you out of it though: I got a bunch of brown rice for free lately (a bunch...) and am on a wbr kick now and loving it. Simple and quicker than wbs, rye, or popcorn IME. What contams?
-------------------- "First we build the tools, then they build us." THE 49th MYCOJOURNAL: Exotics, Auroras, and Entities
Edited by alaskappalachian (11/23/19 10:00 AM)
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PsyduckMonkey
witch



Registered: 10/12/18
Posts: 273
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Quote:
SpunkyMonkey88 said: Dude I seriously doubt he contaminated his tubs with his coir...
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
The thing is, it couldn't have been the grains, as if the grains had been infected, the contam would have appeared in the jars. You hear about jars going bad all the time, while most growers agree that fully colonized grains are pretty much like a fortress of mycelium, you can wipe your ass with them and they will still be good.
If there were a lot of popped grains, it could have provided an easy attack surface after spawning, but the only thing that could have carried the contamination is the substrate.
(Another possibility is that the grains weren't fully colonized at spawn time... but let's not assume that, nobody does something that silly.)
-------------------- Do you believe in the Third Summer of Love?
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footpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
Posts: 1,367
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Any pics of your agar dishes? It's almost certainly stemming from that. 2 transfers isn't a solid guarantee from MS Rhizo growth doesn't necessarily equate to clean growth. I've had shit hide out in very uniform rhizo growth that didn't present itself until a fifth transfer.
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