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OfflineKazoo_bard
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What are the actual differences between varieties? * 1
    #26338667 - 11/22/19 05:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I see a lot of people say the usual, a cube is a cube when talking about varieties and potency, which I get.  Then there are people that say penis envy is a standout. I get that the shapes and colors vary a bit between them, but is there any varieties that have really unique properties?  One that tends to grow way bigger, or way faster, or are the differences almost exclusively superficial?
Sorry for the total noob question.


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OfflineOneLoneRanger
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26338677 - 11/22/19 05:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I would love to know this too as a total newb.


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Offlinednkronic
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard] * 2
    #26338711 - 11/22/19 06:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Ive noticed some varieties colonize quicker and put out better results with MS than others. Equador, Brazil, and Costa Rican are a few ime that colozinized faster than others.

Some, like Cambodian, have more pronounced nippled caps, and others like Equador can get to be monster in size..

The regional differences might have something to do with the macro differences in the mushroom but thats purely speculation. Some like Aussies have really neat "hats" and others can be fat and squatty like ksss.. some can put out huge fruits like Orissa, and some may have huge stems like golden teachers.

There are other things to consider that could be impacting growth tho. Temperature Air exchange and other factors can def play a role in growth rates.

Again, this is all in my experience and observations. Definitely not proven, just my opinion.

DK


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: dnkronic]
    #26338734 - 11/22/19 06:12 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

In general, the differences are insignificant.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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Offlinespiritlands
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26338754 - 11/22/19 06:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I agree a cube is a cube but I also disagree bc I think almost every time I eat them it's different. I think of it more like a conversation with a friend, the friend is the same but each conversation with that friend is a little different. I think place and setting steers the experience. I think the experience is very much the same but each strain has its own little vibe too.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26338779 - 11/22/19 06:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I would say varieties do have different effects but its pretty subtle. You have to be "aware" of the differences if that makes any sense. It comes with repeated experiences with homegrown cubes.

The biggest difference is with mutants like PE, APE, KSSS when compared to typical "common" cubes. The mutants are in a class their own, including highly-isolated Dealer Cubes. Theres less of a effect difference with other strains but there is still a difference!

I prefer African Transkei these days. I believe its considered a "mutant" strain. It has a "spiritual effect" mentally. Plus they look awesome when I grow them, like palm trees.


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26338805 - 11/22/19 06:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

A cubes a cubes a cubes because they are not pans.
None colonize faster than another none are more contam resistant some look different but they are all cubes including pe.
Most name's stem from where they were found and some are very stable even from spores due to excessive selfing/ inbreeding.


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Offline99.99
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #26338860 - 11/22/19 07:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
A cubes a cubes a cubes because they are not pans.
None colonize faster than another none are more contam resistant some look different but they are all cubes including pe.
Most name's stem from where they were found and some are very stable even from spores due to excessive selfing/ inbreeding.




The APE i grew for years wear more of a novelty and are normally thought to be more intense and potent
The golden teachers i have are extreame producers and very visual and not intense at all .... so things can vary
But as a rule APE are normally stronger than normal cubes... id say


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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr]
    #26338866 - 11/22/19 07:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Most name's stem from where they were found...




Penis Envy has been a long since stabilized strain first discovered in a remote island located in Norway's Bear Island/Bjørnøya called "Pikkens ønske" which in English roughly translates to "Dick's Desire".


















:trustme:


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Offline99.99
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: CocaineBuffet]
    #26338882 - 11/22/19 07:20 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CocaineBuffet said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
Most name's stem from where they were found...




Penis Envy has been a long since stabilized strain first discovered in a remote island located in Norway's Bear Island/Bjørnøya called "Pikkens ønske" which in English roughly translates to "Dick's Desire".


?????  Not because of looks



















:trustme:




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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: 99.99]
    #26338886 - 11/22/19 07:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: 99.99]
    #26338889 - 11/22/19 07:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

No because of what I said and nothing else


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: 99.99]
    #26338912 - 11/22/19 07:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

99.99 said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
A cubes a cubes a cubes because they are not pans.
None colonize faster than another none are more contam resistant some look different but they are all cubes including pe.
Most name's stem from where they were found and some are very stable even from spores due to excessive selfing/ inbreeding.




The APE i grew for years wear more of a novelty and are normally thought to be more intense and potent
The golden teachers i have are extreame producers and very visual and not intense at all .... so things can vary
But as a rule APE are normally stronger than normal cubes... id say



Fun thought..
So pe varieties are a freak of nature for cubes and potency right?
What if this were to happen with a Panaeolus cyanescens....


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Offline99.99
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr]
    #26338930 - 11/22/19 07:41 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

99.99 said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
A cubes a cubes a cubes because they are not pans.
None colonize faster than another none are more contam resistant some look different but they are all cubes including pe.
Most name's stem from where they were found and some are very stable even from spores due to excessive selfing/ inbreeding.




The APE i grew for years wear more of a novelty and are normally thought to be more intense and potent
The golden teachers i have are extreame producers and very visual and not intense at all .... so things can vary
But as a rule APE are normally stronger than normal cubes... id say



Fun thought..
So pe varieties are a freak of nature for cubes and potency right?
What if this were to happen with a Panaeolus cyanescens....




Very interesting you brought that up I have just got a pan print from a trusted member that loves pans and it is insane it’s growing so fast and producing things I’ve never seen before I don’t really have photos yet
It’s probably just my lack of experience in growing these as I’m not an expert

Also  is it just me or I thought the penis envy was developed using snake venom and cross breeding with other albino cubes and lots of work being done by really smart people


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: 99.99] * 1
    #26338946 - 11/22/19 07:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Could u imagine splitting half a gram with 3 friends and being blasted for the night:lol:


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Offline99.99
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr]
    #26338969 - 11/22/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Omg with pans its possible
Half a gram kicks my ass now


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InvisibleAuxin
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: 99.99]
    #26339113 - 11/22/19 09:07 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

99.99 said:is it just me or I thought the penis envy was developed using snake venom and cross breeding with other albino cubes and lots of work being done by really smart people



No. The history is muddy, but the more likely scenario is that PE was selected normally as a mutant derived from a landrace collected by the McKenna brothers in the northern amazon.
Your most likely thinking of PE6, which was selected from a dikaryote-dikaryote hybrid formed between PE and Texas with the help of rattlesnake venom.
The venom, while badass and some good lore, wasn't anything particularly special. It was a shortcut to avoid the work of selecting out multiple monokaryote strains of each for the hybridization and doing a few more crosses. You could do the same thing with a paperclip, an x-acto knife, and some petri dishes. Vegan-style.

As for experiential differences between varieties, there is a possibility people love to ignore. Perhaps some people are sensitive to differences between strains and some simply arent.  :shrug:


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Offlinespiritlands
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Auxin]
    #26339120 - 11/22/19 09:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I have a paperclip, exacto, and pitris. What did you have in mind?


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: spiritlands] * 1
    #26339126 - 11/22/19 09:12 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

any difference is whatever the observer perceives based off the info given. they are mushroooms they do what they do without you being present anyway.

if you could clone identical fruits instantly and give an exact copy to 100 different people i bet youll get 100 different descriptions of effects.


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Offline99.99
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: mushboy]
    #26339169 - 11/22/19 09:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
any difference is whatever the observer perceives based off the info given. they are mushroooms they do what they do without you being present anyway.

if you could clone identical fruits instantly and give an exact copy to 100 different people i bet youll get 100 different descriptions of effects.




I agree 100% ... ive never had the exact same affects on a trip


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Invisiblestaytrippy420
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: 99.99]
    #26339195 - 11/22/19 09:34 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

What if we are always tripping and mushrooms make us sober?...
:mindblown:


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: 99.99] * 1
    #26339202 - 11/22/19 09:36 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Most varieties are like wines.
Some people notice the subtle differences, most people just wanna get drunk.
PE is like Four Loko.
Everyone wants to get fucked up from time to time.


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Offlinechinaman9
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: footpath]
    #26339280 - 11/22/19 10:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

footpath said:

PE is like Four Loko.





:bigyesnod:


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InvisibleAuxin
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: spiritlands]
    #26339340 - 11/22/19 11:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spiritlands said:
I have a paperclip, exacto, and pitris. What did you have in mind?



Thats how crosses and hybrids have been made for a hundred years.
Make the wire into a loop, spread spores thinly on a petri, isolate monokaryotes onto new petris, put dissimilar monokaryotes next to eachother on new petris, when they fuse grow mushrooms.
Some crosses are possible without monokaryotic isolates, but monokaryotes allow for wider and more exact crosses. A commercial oyster culture and a commercial shiitake culture wont cross without snake venom, but use monokaryotes and they will. Those arent even the same genus!


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Auxin]
    #26339342 - 11/22/19 11:29 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Monokaryons of oysters and shiitake will not cross and even if they do with venom they won't make fruits  just mycelium.


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InvisibleAuxin
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr]
    #26339397 - 11/23/19 12:48 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

They made fruiting hybrids in this study:
'Strain improvement of edible fungi with Pleurotus eryngii neohaplonts'
They used the term neohaplonts to mean regenerated monokaryons derived from dedikariotization of commercial dikaryotic clonal lines.
No snakes were annoyed in the making of that study.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Auxin] * 1
    #26339512 - 11/23/19 05:37 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Roadkill who was a mod here believed in differences in effects. He is in the RR videos with Roger. Meanwhile I think Roger was firmly in the cube is a cube camp.

Quote:

Roadkill said:
Phychotron,

This is has been done.
I have been testing people with different strains of Cubensis for over a year now.

I use test subjects (people I know) to test strains out....I use 4 to 6 people.
They all pretty much give me the same trip report...all are given 3.5 dry grams of the strain I am testing at the time.
I listen to what they have to say they were feeling and experiencing....and compare it to what I felt...and never lead them on to what I was feeling.
They are told which mushroom they are taking...and they are not told what I think the trip will be like....or what the others thought the trip was like.

I tested 8 people with the smaller Cambodian strain.
One test subject had a very bad trip...and it was due to getting into a fight with his X wife several hours before tripping...he should have never tripped that night...if your in bad space...you just might have a really bad time.
The rest all had a great trip...and the same exact visuals and such.
Very colorful and visual and a little bit speedy feeling. :smile:

I had 5 people try the Allen strain.
They all had the exact same trip.
I won't share what they felt...find out for yourself.  :smirk:

I have 4 people trying out the Burma strain right now.
I'm waiting on hearing the test results from these people.
I can't try this strain out myself at this time...cause as some of you know I had a mild heart attack a few weeks ago and I won't be able to trip for quite awhile. :frown:
I always trip and compare my trips to my test subjects...not this time.
But my best friend has been tripping with me since 1974...and I trust his judgement totally. :smile:


Bluemeanie,

I have alot of respect for you too.
You have brought this up for along time...and we pretty much see eye to eye on the potency issues.
I also agree that what substrate is used...will increase or decrease the potency of the mushroom that you are growing.
And I also agree about people testing several strains out and seeing for themselves the differences between different strains of Cubensis.


I have always said grow out the Cambodian and the Gulf Coast and compare them to each other...there is a big difference between these 2 strains!!!!
You must wait at least a week to 2 weeks inbetween trips.
And take the same amount of mushrooms... 3.5 dry grams is a good number for testing.
Write down your findings on paper to compare the experiences.
If you had a bad trip....try them again in a few weeks and see if you have a better one...mind set does play a part in trippin....but not in potency and visuals...etc.

Then grow out the Puerto Rican and the Acadian Coast and compare those to each other.

Then grow out the South American and the Keepers Creeper and compare those to each other.

continue til you have tried all the strains several times.
     




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Offlinefootpath
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: blackout]
    #26339694 - 11/23/19 09:00 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I mean it's common to hear, 'whiskey makes me x drunk, vodka make me x drunk,' etc. Sure, you're getting different minute botanical extracts in each distillate, but you're ultimately just getting drunk on alcohol.
I assume, so too can be said for minute differences in the levels of compounds from variety to variety - I imagine especially regionally.


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InvisibleAuxin
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: footpath]
    #26339745 - 11/23/19 09:39 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Who says the differences are minute?
Not only are there three different confirmed primary psychoactives in cubensis mushrooms which can vary in concentration, but it has never been established how many adjuvant compounds there are working to alter the effects of the others.

I think part of the confusion/disagreement may just be how people are choosing to look at their trips. I've heard stories numerous times about first timers taking a low 'safety' dose and clearly tripping but insisting they arent high because of no visuals. So what if they are having trouble walking and energetically talking about monkey men on the moon while laughing hysterically at the shape of a leaf.
I dont think the perception that all cubes are the same is quite as blatant as that, but in some cases I think its an equivalent phenomena.

It should stand out that half of the most experienced people here see a difference in varieties.


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: footpath]
    #26339749 - 11/23/19 09:42 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So variety really doesnt make MUCH difference, and it's all about origin really. That's cool to know. Tha is for the info, really helps us noobs find our way haha


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Auxin]
    #26339759 - 11/23/19 09:46 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Auxin said:
Who says the differences are minute?

It should stand out that half of the most experienced people here see a difference in varieties.




I use 'minute' in consideration of the half who do not see those differences.
Because it may indeed not be in such concentrations for them to notice.


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: footpath]
    #26340768 - 11/23/19 05:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Given that cubes are essentially all so similar as to be functionally the same,  what is the level of difference between cubes and pans? Do they feel different?  I know they're supposed to be harder to grow and noticeably stronger, but is the trip experience different?


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Offlinechinaman9
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26341113 - 11/23/19 07:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I'm curious to know what people think about the difference in effect between cubensis and other psilocybe species like cyanescens and azurescens. I've read they're "stronger" but is there much a difference in the experience? I only have experience with cubes.


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: chinaman9]
    #26341161 - 11/23/19 08:12 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

That's what I can't wait to find out, what is the difference between species and experience? I've got pans and atl7 and several cubes well on their way. I've never had truffles before but I was reading that they only contain Psylocibin which might change the trip. I've not had the pleasure of pans but that is my focus so that will be fun;-}>


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: spiritlands]
    #26346756 - 11/26/19 01:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Good luck and update us on your finds spirit haha.
I'm gonna stick to cubes until I can know I'm not gonna fuck up some special spore print of a rare strain.  I'm willing to fuck up b+ all day long lol


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OfflineTweeq
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26346898 - 11/26/19 02:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I would argue a cube is pretty much a cube potency wise but I can certainly tell you some differences between at least my clone culture of Huautla vs ie my clone culture of RW in terms of general colour or the spirit of the trip. My most potent cube is a mckenna clone. Tripping on them can feel like being drilled by a shaolin master :smile:


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InvisiblePsyduckMonkey
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Tweeq]
    #26346981 - 11/26/19 03:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The "potency-wise cubes are all the same" adage is widespread but I disagree. Even in a single MS grow you can have 2-3x differences between each fruit body, and I've seen two varieties that consistently, when powdered, had a 3x difference between them in potency - of course when someone tries to sell a variety with slogans about how ultra potent it is, they are usually full of crap. :laugh:

Psilocybe Cubensis is at home around the world, and of course this means a lot of genetic variety. :smile: So yes there are differences in looks, color, even sometimes in potency. I have the subjective experience of cubes from Asia and America having different "spirits", but without resorting to animistic reasoning, this is probably due to the power of suggestion, like how the blotter art tends to affect your acid trip.


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: PsyduckMonkey]
    #26347019 - 11/26/19 03:48 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I would agree. Knowing it's from a different type shapes your mental image of it.  If I told you I babied and nurtured them in every way before taking them, you will most likely have at least a slightly different trip than if I just go. "eh, i kind of forgot about them and just dried whatever i got. Not too sure how they turned out"


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard] * 1
    #26347083 - 11/26/19 04:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

What exactly is there to suggest when you're simply designating a region?
Should I feel twangy banjo swamp when I eat something from Florida?
Should I feel tranquil bamboo flute rainforest when I eat something from southeast Asia?
Not even the most willy myco vendor out there is telling you, 'alright, with this strain, you're gonna feel like vanilla custard is flowing all over your skin and you'll see dancing polka dots emanating from the teat of fractal cupcakes.'

Obviously your preconceptions are going to alter the experience to an extent.
But not the way the composition of the chemicals are going to effect your brain.
Yeah, that can, of course, change from each set of pairing spores of a given variety. But I'd seem to believe they have set parameters of their potential composition, especially when given a variety that can very certainly be designated to a region.


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: footpath]
    #26347091 - 11/26/19 04:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You eat thai shrooms have bad trip about sex trafficking no fail every time bro... Cus that's like where they're from yo

I feel like if we gave people shrooms double blind all the people that say they know X variety because of its quality of trip would get a guessing average at identifying the variety they got fed


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26347162 - 11/26/19 05:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I imagine most people, yeah.
Most people also couldn't tell you a $5 bottle of wine from a $500 bottle of wine. Shit, most people couldn't tell you a pinot noir from a nebbiolo.
I don't put much stock into the masses, even less when those masses are on drugs.

But I'd think there are some who could tell you the varieties they're familiar with.
Some psilo sommeliers.

I don't consider myself exceptionally well-versed, but I am confident in my awareness of the varieties I've grown - surely I've had many many stashes go unlabeled or 'oh, I'll remember which is which' and then smoke, but I definitely noticed repeated differences from jar A to jar B.
I dunno. Chemical makeup, I don't think there's any question that regional varieties maintain differences. Whether those differences are genuinely perceivable? :shrug: I'm absolutely willing to accept that it's psychosomatic. But I'm not convinced it is.


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26347170 - 11/26/19 05:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I fully support the idea of a pepsi challenge strain test 😂😂😂
It's interesting to see everyone's opinions on this topic, it seems to be quite divided, yet almost in agreement on certain parts.


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr]
    #26347296 - 11/26/19 06:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Could u imagine splitting half a gram with 3 friends and being blasted for the night:lol:




What?? Really?

Guess it's time to grow some pans.


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: newtomyc] * 2
    #26347406 - 11/26/19 07:10 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

newtomyc said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
Could u imagine splitting half a gram with 3 friends and being blasted for the night:lol:




What?? Really?

Guess it's time to grow some pans.



Lol no I'm just saying...you know how pe is a super potent cube? Imagine if we found an ultra potent pan


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr] * 2
    #26347509 - 11/26/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I must try them all to know the truth
:trippydoc:


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: spiritlands]
    #26347515 - 11/26/19 08:07 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Thats the spirit!

And over time with enough experience, you will notice the subtle differences :mushroom2:


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26348304 - 11/27/19 10:50 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Is the difference between cubes and pans that stark?  Or is it a matter of a few percents increase in potency?


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26348469 - 11/27/19 12:18 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Cubes and pans are worlds apart. Pans are three to five times stronger per gram


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Tweeq]
    #26348792 - 11/27/19 02:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I dont mean to doubt, but is that a verifiable thing, or is it just guesstimates from experience and anecdotal reports?


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26348824 - 11/27/19 03:03 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Verified to be one of the most potent psilocybin mushrooms


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: cronicr]
    #26348976 - 11/27/19 04:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Awsome, how much harder are they to grow in bulk?


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26348983 - 11/27/19 04:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

With clean spawn easy as cubes


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Re: What are the actual differences between varieties? [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26349174 - 11/27/19 04:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
Enough strain talk


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