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OfflineKazoo_bard
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What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried
    #26335800 - 11/21/19 11:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Hey all, so I'm consolidating info before I go into one big grow before the holidays and everything.
My target weight dried is 1lb by new years day. I want to challenge myself and I feel like it's super possible. I've read that a tub can produce as much as 6oz dried. Is this in one flush, or across the life of the substrate before its exausted?
Will i need to do lots of isolation and such to get a tub to produce numbers like that?


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26335825 - 11/21/19 12:10 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The yield entirely depends on genetics, substrate and spawn amounts/ ratios, conditions and cleanliness of spawn.

Short answer: If your spawn is clean, your substrate is prepped correctly and your genetics are good, you can hope to pull 1 ounce (dry) per quart of spawn. You don't have to isolate genetics to pull this off. Ms can certainly do it but there is no guarantee. Clones have a much better chance (imo). When you grow out MS tubs there is no way to know how it'll preform until you grow it out. It may do well and it may suck balls. Cloning a fruit or five and growing them out is a pretty surefire way to get a good culture.

1 ounce per quart is not the best that can happen but it is a reasonable goal. The cultures i have that i like give off a half pound (dry) over two flushes.

here are a few pics of a project i'm working on at the moment. I took spores from a bunch of fruits and germinated and cleaned up on agar. They grew out in shoe boxes like so...



As you can see, the results were ok but not stellar. That's what MS will do sometimes. So i snatched the nicest looking fruits and cloned them. I then grew them out in 66 quart monotubs with 4 quarts spawn and about 8 quarts coir. They turned out like so...





As you can see, cloning from desirable fruits can really really up the game. This is not at all to say that MS tubs can't pull off similar results. It's just not as sure a thing when working with a shitload of unknown genetics.

No amount of isolating genetics will make you result better because, whether 5 or 50 transfers in, you have no way of knowing what you're working with until you see it fruit.

Hope this helps.


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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26335833 - 11/21/19 12:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

10 dry ounces average is what u should be pulling in 2 flushes with 5 qts of spawn :thumbup:


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26335835 - 11/21/19 12:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Edit::whathesaid: (verum) he beat me too it
6+oz is definitely possible out a monotub first flush but highly unlikely if you don’t know what your doing. Iv never had a flush put out more than a qp first flush but I think that’s pretty decent first flush. If u want flushes like that (6oz+) you need to takes some clones and dial in your conditions but that still doesn’t guarantee those kinds of results. Are you experiencing with agar?


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Edited by SFS96 (11/21/19 12:15 PM)


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26335839 - 11/21/19 12:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Just take from the low end of  what you have been averaging per quart of spawn. Multiply that into a pound and you can figure out how much spawn you need to get a pound in 40 days.


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: SFS96]
    #26335873 - 11/21/19 12:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

i'd say since you are placing bets on a big harvest with short timeline then consider shoeboxes versus monotubs, because to lose a shoebox is meh since you have 5-10 going at a time, to lose a monotub when you only have one or two will seriously set you back with massive disappoint...

look at ShaperDreaming's SmallFormFactor teks, she really laid it out nicely both making them and running many for a constant 2month of harvest shoebox assembly and shoebox factory for ideas that may help you reach your new year goal!

and dang verum! :rockon: always puttin up the evidential goodies... what is that ziploc doing in 4b??


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26335881 - 11/21/19 12:34 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I;m trying to stabilize this bitch so i took the nicest specimen from each culture and will be cloning and taking spores from it. That the fruit i chose from this culture but i accidentally yanked her out before documenting the grow. So i just stuck her back in place and snapped a shot. If you look at the last picture (group photo) you can see that each tub has a bagged specimen chillin.


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26335912 - 11/21/19 12:53 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

hah, put back for the money shot:dancer:
had noticed the bottom pic, thought for a sec you finished fruiting in ziploc the one determined best of the best of the best early on, maybe to keep it free from overhead drops or in prep for spore drop to capture but not get everyone all spored up. idk sure looked funny


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26335921 - 11/21/19 12:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

these suckers don't drop spores.


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26335933 - 11/21/19 01:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Most I’ve pulled one flush was 16oz dry using dung/straw. 2nd best was 12z dry. Coir I find between 6-8oz off good genetics a good average. Even if it’s multispore. Recently I’ve been pulling 6-8z dry from multispore tubs.


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26335938 - 11/21/19 01:07 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

dang! is it all cloning to keep them going then? not to derail too far, you have a grow log for this project? 
now i'm all interested and stuff:jah:


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: eatyualive]
    #26335943 - 11/21/19 01:10 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

eatyualive said:
Most I’ve pulled one flush was 16oz dry using dung/straw. 2nd best was 12z dry. Coir I find between 6-8oz off good genetics a good average. Even if it’s multispore. Recently I’ve been pulling 6-8z dry from multispore tubs.




thems some badass numbers, what spawn:sub ratio and size tub? (assuming these are the same between your results above)


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26335952 - 11/21/19 01:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah eat. what are the numbers man? I know this is possible but don't like to throw those kinds of numbers at noobs because there's almost no way they are going to see anything close.


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26335959 - 11/21/19 01:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Holy shit, I would love to know your tek, i plan on going with coir and Frank's wbs tek. I know I wont be seeing that kind of weight for a long time and a lot of practice.
Still, knowing how you pulled that would be more info in my belt.


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26335966 - 11/21/19 01:24 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
Yeah eat. what are the numbers man? I know this is possible but don't like to throw those kinds of numbers at noobs because there's almost no way they are going to see anything close.



:whathesaid: yup, because...
Quote:

Kazoo_bard said:
Holy shit, I would love to know your tek, i plan on going with coir and Frank's wbs tek. I know I wont be seeing that kind of weight for a long time and a lot of practice.
Still, knowing how you pulled that would be more info in my belt.



we noobs be like daaaaamn, oh please do share thy secrets Sensei!:awedance:


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26335970 - 11/21/19 01:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I'm sure the hoards of noobs asking the same 10 questions does get old 😅


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Offlinefootpath
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard] * 1
    #26335979 - 11/21/19 01:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I like to just go off the 100% biological efficiency scale of 1qt spawn = 1 dry oz.
As you can see, it hardly means anything. But it's a good objective for a noob.
It's definitely obtainable from a wide range of variables, and it gives you a moderate idea of how good your techniques were.


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26335986 - 11/21/19 01:37 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

yup, at least when in military training environment you can get away with the fact there are stupid questions and you're gonna give me 50 pushups to prove it.:lol:

i dont miss those days, but been a long damn time since i was instructing snot nosed privates and shavetails and certainly feel like one now!

curious those numbers, havent really figured out BE yet but thinking that to be some 300%+ level stuff seeing what eatyualive uses (tubs and subs) in threads i've tagged in on this past couple months.


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo] * 1
    #26335991 - 11/21/19 01:39 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You can't even guess at BE without knowing the size of tub and amounts of spawn/ sub. None of which were provided.


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26335997 - 11/21/19 01:42 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Footpath, with the 1qt to 1oz ratio, is that across all flushes or each flush? Also, I do understand that's not a hard and fast rule of any sort


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26335998 - 11/21/19 01:43 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

fruiting conditions play the biggest role in yields if u dont know to fruit a tub your yield will show it :shrug:


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coir tek
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results :thumbup:


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26336003 - 11/21/19 01:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

oh yah, i meant i haven't figured out what BE even is, besides acronym for biological efficiency. footpath's last response told me more than i had come to understand of it so far 100% is 1q spawn = 1 dry oz. that is nice and simple way for me to get it tho i'd still need a scratch sheet of paper and a calculator for anything beyond that simple:facepalm:


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo] * 1
    #26336014 - 11/21/19 01:52 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

5 quarts of spawn to the bulk. Generally same volume I’ve always used. For coir, it’s 1 brick eco earth, 3 quarts Verm, 4.5 cups water. Dung/ straw I can’t remember to be honest but it was 4-6 quarts minimum. It might have actually been 6 quarts in the near yield I had. It was also Burma variety which has arm long size fruits.

For average yield on multispore I mostly run Tex orange cap or yellow cap with those numbers. I had a rustywhyte flush give me similar yield multispore. But I did harvest early due to time restraints on the first flush. It was close to my average though but slightly under.


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo] * 1
    #26336019 - 11/21/19 01:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

1qt spawn to 1 oz dry shrooms has nothing to do with BE. That's just a metric the shroomery
uses for what is acceptable. BE is a ratio between dry sub weights (grain and sub)
and harvest weights.

The equation is:(weight of wet mushrooms/weight of dry materials) * 100

If you used 1lb of dry materials and grew 1lb of wet mushrooms, you achieved
100% BE.

Proof: (1lb/1lb)*100 = 100%BE

Edit: fixed equation


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Edited by natedawgnow (11/21/19 02:01 PM)


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26336022 - 11/21/19 01:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The shroomery has single handedly played a role in screwing up what BE actually means :lol:


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26336028 - 11/21/19 01:59 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I’d say 1oz from a quart of spawn is a good average number for yield IME


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26336042 - 11/21/19 02:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

that makes sense, thanks natedawgnow! and i imagine you want total harvest all flushes for that wet weight, correct?


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo] * 1
    #26336043 - 11/21/19 02:07 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Correct


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Shroomerquest]
    #26336047 - 11/21/19 02:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Right, what nate said.
Colloquially, BE is spawn volume to dry weight.
Actual BE is weight in/weight out.
Noe you see why I said, 'it hardly means anything.'

There's a lot of terminology the OMC has bastardized the definitions of.


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: footpath] * 1
    #26336058 - 11/21/19 02:16 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

how many quarts do you guys typically use for MS grows in a 66qt tub? i used to do 7 religiously but looks like most do 5 or 6.


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: PsilocyBen17]
    #26336061 - 11/21/19 02:18 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

i do four full quarts... which is roughly 5 myco quarts.


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26336149 - 11/21/19 03:03 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So, 5 qts, at 1:4?  I'm guessing the general idea is more about depth?


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard] * 1
    #26336158 - 11/21/19 03:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Depth equal available water when your sub is properly hydrated. Cubes love water. Too deep and the sub will go anaerobic. This combined with the excess heats generated by thermo genesis create the perfect environment for molds and bacteria and create an inhospitable environment for cubes. So, don't go too deep


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26336172 - 11/21/19 03:18 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26336290 - 11/21/19 04:10 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

1qt=1oz =1 flush


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Hobbit GDF]
    #26336314 - 11/21/19 04:18 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

More is very possible and ive gotten 1.5oz from a 1200ml tray. Can’t remember ratios but it was less than a litre of spawn i reckon


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Shroomerquest] * 1
    #26336343 - 11/21/19 04:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

600 lbs per flush  :awesketch:


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InvisibleTeaforTwo
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Cybin_man]
    #26336383 - 11/21/19 04:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:bow2:
(sure the pet gorilla didnt sneak a toe on that scale?:jah:


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26336515 - 11/21/19 05:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I'm hoping that isolating some rhizomorphic Colombian rustspore, I will be able to get some really strong monotub going fast. Are there any varieties that are more conducive to massive pinsets or anything? Even if it's just a unique shape lol
I know theres not a lot of difference between the varieties, I've seen the phrase "a cube is a cube" a million times on here haha


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26336585 - 11/21/19 05:58 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Most of the time I don’t keep the fruits separate enough to know the exact tub amounts, although I presume on average 1.5oz a jar if everything is going well.  Talking in super generalities an 8 jar tub often goes 6oz, 4oz, 2oz, 1oz.

But like it’s been said, these are all arbitrary numbers since we’re all too lazy (or don’t have the right scale) to weight the total spawn with bulk mix.  So that my average measurement is a bit higher than others, doesn’t actually mean it’s any better, my unmeasured bulk could be more than others and my BE actually less than other people’s average.  There’s also no time scales mentioned here, in some cases that last bit took longer than the first two whole flushes. 

With lots of tubs, tossing things early instead of letting them sit can be beneficial to your overall BE because you aren’t taunting the gnat or mold gods, whereas with one or two, who cares as long as they keep producing.  So even if we knew a single tub BE it doesn’t always apply to a multi tub BE over long time periods.


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OfflineKazoo_bard
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: StygianKnight]
    #26336622 - 11/21/19 06:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I'm guessing by 8 jar, you mean 8 jars of spawn. Earlier verum mentioned "depth equal water available when sub is properly hydrated"  what does that mean?  I've heard 4 inch depth is kind of the rule of thumb I thought. Is sub depth one of those loosey goosey things that you just have to get a feel for?


Edited by Kazoo_bard (11/21/19 06:14 PM)


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OfflineSFS96
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26336664 - 11/21/19 06:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

3-4 inches is good for mono tubs. 4-6qts spawn + 1brick coir + 2qt verm puts you right around 3-4 inches in a 66qt tub.


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: SFS96]
    #26336909 - 11/21/19 08:24 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Depends on your tub. Mine is 2.5-3”.


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OfflineShroomerquest
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: eatyualive]
    #26338322 - 11/22/19 02:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Add water to a tub to the desired level, measure the amount of water then work from that number


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26347924 - 11/27/19 05:20 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Verum, I like where you going with cloning. How did you select the fruits to clone - by size?


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: bacillus]
    #26348327 - 11/27/19 11:01 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

That's actually a really good question. How do you decide which mushroom to clone, and how do you decide which part of the agar to copy?  The thickest ropiest part?  The fattest shroom? Straightest? Quickest to pop up and pop open? What do experienced growers look for for signs of quality?


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard] * 4
    #26348464 - 11/27/19 12:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It depends what you are trying to accomplish. Sometimes a clone is taken for it's unique appearance. Phenotypes are fun to isolate when you find a cool one. In general though, we clone from the fastest growing, prettiest, thickest, clusteringest mutha fuckin lady around. It's a lot like pickin up girls at the bar. Just look around, find the one you'd like to have thousands of, rip her in half and put a tiny piece of flesh on agar. Don't drink too much when making this decision because it may in fact change the rest of your life.


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26349382 - 11/27/19 07:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:lol: great description


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26349394 - 11/27/19 07:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
It depends what you are trying to accomplish. Sometimes a clone is taken for it's unique appearance. Phenotypes are fun to isolate when you find a cool one. In general though, we clone from the fastest growing, prettiest, thickest, clusteringest mutha fuckin lady around. It's a lot like pickin up girls at the bar. Just look around, find the one you'd like to have thousands of, rip her in half and put a tiny piece of flesh on agar. Don't drink too much when making this decision because it may in fact change the rest of your life.



:laugh2: Perfect


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: LtLurker]
    #26364810 - 12/06/19 11:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you very much verum, yet again you come through with some serious practical knowledge and explanations.  You should make your title "educates with sass" man, haha.
Between this and learning what to look for in agar culturing, I'm feeling pretty confident.
Hopefully in a month or so I will be posting pics of some beautiful monotub, or at least the bonfire I make out of the subs If they go bad haha


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Kazoo_bard]
    #26364855 - 12/06/19 11:56 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Have fun trying to burn moist coir. I'd advise starting a compost pile. "Educates with sass"... I like it.


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26365077 - 12/06/19 01:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Good genetics and PERFECT growing conditions..

it's impossible to know the genetics your working with without  perfect grow environment.  most of the information available give no parameters on what makes the condition perfect.

It took me years to realize stale basement air would completely destroy grow potential, opening windows don't cut it.  It's ok for one or two tubs, but try 10 monotubs, it's a must i pump fresh air from outside.

I also experienced a year of growing in a high carbon monoxide environment -carbon monoxide does something very interesting to your fruits.. makes the flesh pourus as if it's being burned.

i would love to buy a air probe to stick in my monotub, would love to get official measurements on air pressure, and fresh air ppm parameters. I do think that such very easily collected technical information is essential, but it's not available to us amatuer growers.


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OfflineMarmie
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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: trippleblack]
    #26365108 - 12/06/19 01:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Is the fresh air constantly pumped in or is it on a timer,  what %rh do you try and keep your space at


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Re: What is a truly average monotub flush weight once dried [Re: Marmie]
    #26365132 - 12/06/19 01:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I modified a window with good duct work and one of those can fans usually used for marijuana grows, these force tons of outide air into room with excellent positive pressure.  don't know the rh -likely about 50/ with one humidifier going.. i have 2 humidifiers, one cycled on and off/ the other is always -low or high settings depend on the time of year.

best test is spraying monotub wall with water, measure the amount of time it takes for water to competely evaporate..  this will give you an idea on how to cycle humidifier.  I adjust the cycled humidifier so that the monotub walls become coated with water droplets by the time it cycles off again.


Edited by trippleblack (12/06/19 01:56 PM)


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