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Offlineshutter
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Registered: 11/20/19
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Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc.
    #26334608 - 11/20/19 10:44 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Hello all!

I hope I'm not demonstrating improper form with this post, but I'm a first-time cultivator - working toward 12 jars of first-gen grain spawn - and am unsure of how to proceed with my seemingly stalled colonies. I'll detail my process below and include pictures where I can, but please let me know what I should be improving!

---------- TL;DR
Currently incubating 12 mason jars (1qt) of barley grain spawn, 6 King Oyster and 6 Maitake. 17 days in, I'm seeing decent mycelial growth in one or two jars, but very slow and infrequent growth in most. Incubating at 75°F (±2°F) at +90% relative humidity. Am I missing something, being impatient, or currently nurturing handsome contaminants which I've excitedly misidentified as mycelium? Please check out these pictures and let me know what you think!
----------

Photos: Grain & jar prep | DIY incubator | 6 King Oyster jars | 6 Maitake jars

My concerns:
  • Should I shake them to get them to disperse, or will that more likely end up dooming them?
  • Is there something wrong with the environment I've created for these guys, or maybe something in my process that may have stunted them?
  • Why do my colonies appear cloudy and amorphous (see pics) where most I see online look fibrous and radial?
  • Does the humidity outside the jar have a significant effect on the humidity inside the jars, given that air passes through Tyvek?


My process thus far:
- I'm using barley because I was unable to find some of the more common mediums like rye in my area.
- I live in Northern California at 6500ft above sea level, room temp is roughly 67°F and relative humidity lingers around 25%.

Nov 1: rinse and soak grain
- rinse barley 4 times until water is relatively clear
- strain away filler material (straw pieces and such, using poultry feed)
- leave to soak for around 18 hours

Nov 2: dry grain overnight
- replace water 3 or 4 times throughout duration of soak
- simmer for 10 mins and spread evenly onto screen while hot
- let sit on screen for roughly 18.5 hr

Nov 3: fill jars, sterilize and inoculate
- filled 12 1-quart mason jars 4/5 full with the barley
- fitted each with a Tyvek-filtered lid w/ blue RTV syringe port
- pressurized all jars @ 15psi for 90 minutes using pressure canner
- let cool before beginning inoculation (later that day)
- inoculated 6 jars w/ King Oyster syringe and 6 w/ Maitake syringe
- these were 12cc syringes that I was sure to shake and flame before inoc.
- conducted inoc. in bedroom but wiped everything w/ alcohol and torched needles in between
- very light shake and roll to distribute spores
- initially stored together in a drawer at room temperature (maybe 67°F?)

Nov 6: 3 days after inoc.
- first signs of (very slight) colonization in almost all jars after 3 days
- ordered heading mat and thermostat because jars were cold to the touch

Nov 11: 8 days after inoc., placed jars in "incubator"
- spent past few days trying out different ways of heating jars consistently
- placed two-tiered cookie drying racks into a cooler, with the heating mat on cooler floor
- placed fan in center of lower-tier rack to circulate air from top of cooler into the heat mat below
- placed jars on top tier rack to be heated by circulating air, away from direct heat from the mat
- thermostat hangs around the middle of the jars and regulates temperature there around 75°F
- this seems to keep the air in the cooler circulating within ±2°F of 75°F

Nov 15: 12 days after inoc, add humidity to incubator
- started putting damp paper towels on cooler wall daily (had just noticed how low humidity was)
- wetting paper towel daily keeps relative humidity in cooler above 90%

Nov 20: 17 days after inoc
- I saw a lot of area growth in the first 5 days, then a bit of a stall
- I saw more growth once I got this incubator situation together, but only significantly in a couple jars
- I'm still seeing colonized areas getting whiter and fluffier, but hardly branching out in most jars

If you made it this far, thank you so much for taking the time to hear me out, and I'll greatly appreciate any information that helps me get these dudes grown. If there's anything about my process that I can fine-tune, I welcome all criticism. I really want to understand this, it's fascinating!

Cheers,
Mike


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OfflineFairygodmother
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: shutter]
    #26334674 - 11/20/19 11:37 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Hi Shutter

No need for high humidity at this stage. From spore syringe to full colonization will take about 4 weeks without incubation. Everything looks fine, those jars thats about 30% colonized can get a good shake.

I might be wrong, but that grains look extremely dry?


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Offlineshutter
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: Fairygodmother]
    #26334689 - 11/20/19 11:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for getting back so quickly!

The surface of the grains are dry, but they're plumped up to two or three times the size they originally were before soaking.
The grains were somewhat moist and there was condensation on the inside of the jars when I took them out of the pressure canner, but all that visible moisture was gone after 5 or 7 days.

Here's a photo of the raw grains on the left, and the soaked/dried grain on the right:


Edited by shutter (11/20/19 11:52 PM)


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: shutter]
    #26334705 - 11/20/19 11:55 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Well just going with the high points.
1) barley is good, prep is probably too dry, I would do the soak and spread on screen for maybe 30 minutes and put in jar and cook.
2) remember spores take longer than liquid culture or agar, grain to grain is fastest. So if you don't get spores spread around well they will be slow. Dry grains will slow colonization.
3) I would forget the incubator, no need. Kings (maitake are cool) are cold weather species ,so room temp is fine.
4) I like about 20-30% colonized when shaking.


--------------------


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OfflineFairygodmother
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: shutter]
    #26334712 - 11/21/19 12:04 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)







I can see a tiny bit of moisture at all stages in my masters and also spawn bags. Also I must say it depends what grain I'm using. With my millet I can see the moisture, with sorghum a little less. But give them a little longer and see what happens after the shake.

I recommend moving away from spore syringes and start working with agar. Faster and a whole bunch of fun.

Good luck with your first grow. Keep us updated and most importantly enjoy!


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Offlinemariapilz
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: Fairygodmother]
    #26335009 - 11/21/19 05:19 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I see you are using grain with peel. I once tried barley with peel .... It is much drier than peeled grain.

but your glasses look good.:thumbup:


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: mariapilz]
    #26335788 - 11/21/19 11:44 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Once your jars are colonized use a couple of jars to do grain to grain. It will save you a lot of time. I use whole oats and millet for my grain 50/50 by weight. 24-hour soak 1/2 hour strain and in the jars then off to the PC they go. No boil or simmer my grains are perfect every time.

As already stated no need for an incubator. Humidity is not needed at this stage of the process. Room temp will be fine.


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OfflineFairygodmother
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26337016 - 11/21/19 09:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I also use the lazy mans tek for millet prep in masters. 175ml millet, 75ml H2O, 2ml CaCo3, 2ml CaSo4, directly in jar. PC for 90min. Give it a shake or two as it cools down and inoc. Works like a charm every time.


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Offlineshutter
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: Fairygodmother]
    #26337751 - 11/22/19 09:20 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

---------- EDIT
one more question before proceeding:

I know a few said that the incubator isn't necessary but my room temperature is 63°F - 67°F. I know they wouldn't be harmed at this temperature but since they're already struggling I want to do what I can. Would it be more beneficial to keep them in an incubator at the recommended 75°F, or keep them out in a colder environment with fresher air?
----------

Thanks, everyone! This is all super useful information. I shook the 5 most colonized jars and found that the grains seemed to fall in clumps even where there was no visible mycelium. I'm wondering if the mycelium is having a hard time because of that clumping - either less room to grow or less air exchange? Anyway, I lightly agitated the rest of the jars as well to separate the grains... I hope I haven't doomed them.

Next round I'll take care to keep more moisture in the grain, and probably see if I can find other grains to try as well!

Cheers,
Mike


Edited by shutter (11/22/19 10:17 AM)


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: shutter]
    #26338213 - 11/22/19 01:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yea if it is that cold I would use the incubator it will speed thing up. I would keep the incubator at 70F to 72F though. The mycelium creates heat in the bag/jar so you should adjust for that.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Grain Spawn Stalled - 17 Days After Inoc. [Re: Fairygodmother]
    #26338229 - 11/22/19 01:52 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Fairygodmother said:
I also use the lazy mans tek for millet prep in masters. 175ml millet, 75ml H2O, 2ml CaCo3, 2ml CaSo4, directly in jar. PC for 90min. Give it a shake or two as it cools down and inoc. Works like a charm every time.




That is cool but the whole point of soaking for 24 hours with no boil or simmer is to take all the work out of making grains. If you are only doing a few jars I guess measuring out water would be ok. Or do you use a flow meter to measure out the water?

This is what I use. It saves a lot of time making sub bags...

https://www.amazon.com/YF-S201-Controller-Display-Solenoid-Indicator/dp/B07RX97L7J/ref=pd_sbs_469_t_1/142-0490911-3417556?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07RX97L7J&pd_rd_r=0a80cb1a-9412-47ff-87ab-b8253e95d0c5&pd_rd_w=g8Tqx&pd_rd_wg=QmpGM&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=3NZE5TA2J2KRF5F723AY&psc=1&refRID=3NZE5TA2J2KRF5F723AY


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