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stubeez
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Registered: 11/15/19
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Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting
#26325568 - 11/16/19 09:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey all, I am trying my hand at the BRF Tek using this online tek as a guide... http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek
I have followed each step to the T, but am still having trouble with colonization. I believe one of the issues I'm having is getting too much moisture in my jars during the pressure cook (that's what it appears like to me). I am using a Presto 23 qt pressure cooker for my sterilization. I have tried about four rounds and each time there still seems to be water getting in the jars. To avoid this the last time, I put micropore tape over my holes and used three layers of heavy duty tin foil. I also made sure none of the jars were touching the water inside the cooker. I placed about 1 in (maybe a tad more) of water in the cooker. I vented the cooker for over ten minutes and then pressure cooked at 15 PSI for one hour. When I took these jars out, it still looked like the steam messed with the moisture content of the jars. The jars had a fair amount of condensation in them (something that I've read could be normal), but when I took the tin foil off, the tape over the holes was soaked and had lifted some. I'm worried that my dry vermiculite layer on top is getting too saturated. I'm posting because I am kind of at a dead end. I have done everything I thought would keep moisture out, but am still having problems it seems. I would love some input from any pros out there. I will post a little more about my method below. Thanks!
-I'm doing twelve 1/2 pint wide mouth jars at a time -For 12 jars, I used 7 cups vermiculite (adding water until at field capacity) and 2 cups brown rice flour for my substrate -I wiped the upper 1/2 in. of the jar clean and added my dry vermiculite layer on top -I covered inoculation holes with micropore tape, then added three layers of foil -I placed and inch to an 1.5 in of water in my cooker, elevated the trivet so my jars weren't in contact with any water -Vented for 10 mins then cooked at 15 PSI for one hour
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: stubeez] 4
#26325575 - 11/16/19 09:36 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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heres an update tek. welcome to the shroomery
you have a pc? bite the bullet and do grains and agar. you will end up doing it eventually so chop chop
what other troubles? post pics
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Cakemaker91


Registered: 11/16/19
Posts: 36
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: mushboy]
#26325607 - 11/16/19 10:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just jarred and sterilized my substrate in a steam pot for 2 hours. I was worried that water had entered my jars too, because i didn’t even use micropore tape, just a dry Verm layer. After they cooled, i put my ear up to the jar and titled it, and could hear the dry Verm layer moving on the inside (wet Verm won’t sound the same). I just inoculated them and I’ll know more as it develops, but I’ve read that if you can hear the dry Verm layer moving when you tilt the jar, then you didn’t get water in your jars from your PC or steam pot. Condensation can happen just because you’re heating the jars up and theirs water in the jar. As long as it’s not pooling in the bottom of your jar you should be just fine. My logic is that if there’s enough for some droplets to form but not pool in your jar, then you just made some steam in your cakes nooks and crannies and what didn’t stick to the glass just gets reabsorbed into the cake. If the internal temp of the cake is hot enough to make steam then you know you had a successful sterilization.
If anyone can find fault in what I’m saying please correct me, i would love to learn the right way and help spread it.
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stubeez
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: mushboy]
#26326674 - 11/17/19 11:57 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks. What agar/grain tek do you recommend? I'm going to start another BRF batch today and will try and post some pics later.
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stubeez
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: Cakemaker91]
#26326677 - 11/17/19 11:59 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cakemaker91 said: I just jarred and sterilized my substrate in a steam pot for 2 hours. I was worried that water had entered my jars too, because i didn’t even use micropore tape, just a dry Verm layer. After they cooled, i put my ear up to the jar and titled it, and could hear the dry Verm layer moving on the inside (wet Verm won’t sound the same). I just inoculated them and I’ll know more as it develops, but I’ve read that if you can hear the dry Verm layer moving when you tilt the jar, then you didn’t get water in your jars from your PC or steam pot. Condensation can happen just because you’re heating the jars up and theirs water in the jar. As long as it’s not pooling in the bottom of your jar you should be just fine. My logic is that if there’s enough for some droplets to form but not pool in your jar, then you just made some steam in your cakes nooks and crannies and what didn’t stick to the glass just gets reabsorbed into the cake. If the internal temp of the cake is hot enough to make steam then you know you had a successful sterilization.
If anyone can find fault in what I’m saying please correct me, i would love to learn the right way and help spread it.
That makes sense to me. There was no pooling, just condensation on the sides of the jar and on the top, which is why I was worried that water was getting in my inoculation holes.
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MGoMushroom
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: stubeez]
#26326965 - 11/17/19 02:53 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Interesting... That Tek you’re following is showing a different ratio than any other tek on this forum.
Standard ratio for verm, BRF, water = 2:1:1.
So, your recipe could be causing the problem... some type of field capacity issue. I know without the basic ratio, I would struggle to hit the right field capacity.
Also, the 23qt Presto needs 3 quarts of water to work correctly. I don’t know how much 1” - 1.5” of water is but if it’s more/less than 3 quarts it could be a problem.
Finally, are your jars covered in foil individually? If not, water could be getting in from under the lid.
Here is the original PF Tel for reference:
http://www.fanaticus.com/sub-prep.htm
With all that being said, I have yet to successfully fruit a god damned thing yet and I’m 4 months in.... good luck!
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Cakemaker91


Registered: 11/16/19
Posts: 36
Loc: Camp Crystal Lake
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: stubeez]
#26328421 - 11/18/19 09:21 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
stubeez said: That makes sense to me. There was no pooling, just condensation on the sides of the jar and on the top, which is why I was worried that water was getting in my inoculation holes.
So long as you wrapped each jar tightly in tin foil before they went into your PC/steam pot, and you didn’t overfill the PC with water, i doubt you have too much in your jars. Definitely posting some pictures of what your jars look like will definitely help us help you.
It doesn’t sound like extra water got into your jars. I never had any condensation on my lid (I’m assuming you mean on the outside, on top of the jar?) if the condensation is on the OUTSIDE then that’s indicative of low temps in your house (and water is condensing on the outside of the jars)
Like i said, from what you’ve explained you sound okay, but pics always make this easier. Here’s what mine have been looking like, sitting at 78-79F
Edited by Cakemaker91 (11/18/19 01:23 PM)
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Cakemaker91


Registered: 11/16/19
Posts: 36
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Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: stubeez] 1
#26328450 - 11/18/19 09:31 AM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
stubeez said: Thanks. What agar/grain tek do you recommend? I'm going to start another BRF batch today and will try and post some pics later.
I only have experience with the PF Tek’s BRF cakes. But, i have a recipe that you can follow that’s seemed to be successful according to my research and experience:
Follow Substrate Base Formula, (2:1:1 ratio vermiculite/brown Rice flour/water)
4 cups fine Verm 2 cups BRF 1.75 cups regular filtered (or bottled) water 0.25 cups weak coffee (standard strength coffee, 2tbsps brewed into 12 cups of water, or one whole coffee pot worth of water) .3125- .46875 cups (5-7.5 tbsp) gypsum
This recipe gets you to perfect field capacity (grabbing a handful and squeezing the shit out of it rendered about 3-4 drops out of the mix). Gypsum (calcium sulphate) is great for water retention in the cake and also provides two very important nutrients to the cake (BRF is notoriously lacking in Calcium and Sulphur) while the coffee adds more nitrogen to the mix.
Edited by Cakemaker91 (11/18/19 01:22 PM)
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stubeez
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: Cakemaker91]
#26333888 - 11/20/19 03:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's great to know. I will try out that recipe for myself. Here are some pics from the jars.
Before steam:

After Steam:



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A.k.a
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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: stubeez]
#26334064 - 11/20/19 05:30 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those look fine man. You might as well just do bird seed jars it’s much faster because you can shake them up and you get way way more shrooms out of it. Look up shoeboxes, I started both wbs quart jars to spawn to coir and brf pf tek jars at the same time and I was bagging up a dry ounce from my first shoebox before the pf jars were even colonized.
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LAGM2020     
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meaculpaUIO



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Re: Newbie BRF Tek Troubleshooting [Re: A.k.a]
#26334070 - 11/20/19 05:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago) |
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if theres no water at all at the bottom, its pretty good. its also better to err on the dry side (but not overboard) with those jars. All the jars I have that look "too dry" are colonizing just fine.
Edited by meaculpaUIO (11/20/19 05:35 PM)
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