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Offlinedreamachine

Registered: 11/17/19
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The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump * 4
    #26331306 - 11/19/19 02:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Is Tulsi Gabbard. She is the only candidate that could shift enough votes away from Trump to win. Doesn't matter how many people go out and vote for Bernie, they were the same ones that didn't vote for Trump last time anyways; those who got Trump elected last time will undoubtedly vote Trump again if their other option is Sanders, or any of the other candidates except perhaps Tulsi; and even then it would be a really tight race.

Tulsi could be the first female president. She's more of an Independent than a Democrat. Her military service, her opposition to regime change wars and many of her opinions are appreciated by many if not most of those people who voted for Trump.

Sadly, I find it highly unlikely for Tulsi to be selected by the democrats. So I hope yall are ready for either another 4 years of Trump, or civil war / tyranny if Trump is removed/killed.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26331327 - 11/19/19 02:32 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

If she received more media exposure, she would get a lot of Democrat votes.  Unfairly, the media does a lot to pick our leaders.  I bet most people never heard of Tulsi.

Her personality and background appealed to me.  I know next to nothing about her policies and agenda, because the media drowns out interest.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinedreamachine

Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26331369 - 11/19/19 02:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Some 'conspiracy' news agencies cover her a little bit; despite being either sycophantic towards Bernie/Trump depending on their political bias.

From what I've heard she legit seems like a liberal conservative; which is pretty much exactly what America needs/wants right now if you ask me. Instead the far extremes of both sides are being pushed and something tells me that's not going to change any time soon unless the people stand up in an unbiased/independent fashion like they did for the Occupy movement.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26331567 - 11/19/19 04:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Tulsi is running a spoiler race against the democrats, whether consciously or not.


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Offlinedreamachine

Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26331577 - 11/19/19 04:12 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The democrats don't need tulsi to spoil their race lmfao


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26331600 - 11/19/19 04:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The dem party tries to be a hip and cool republican party.  The middle age party when replicans tend to be the more old fart party.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26331728 - 11/19/19 05:00 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

They seem more like corporate shills than anything if you ask me; then again that's pretty much everyone in politics; barring a few


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26331752 - 11/19/19 05:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I wonder if 90% of America wants to be a corporate shill.  It pays well, tranfers industries well, good retirment, almost the perfect job.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26331784 - 11/19/19 05:21 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I wonder if 90% of America wants to be a corporate shill.  It pays well, tranfers industries well, good retirment, almost the perfect job.




I would 100% take a job as a corporate lobbyist if offered. Sounds like a pretty big raise, plus I get to hang out with actual power.


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Offlinedreamachine

Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26331809 - 11/19/19 05:34 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Problem is you have to rape children...


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26331841 - 11/19/19 05:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I wonder if 90% of America wants to be a corporate shill.  It pays well, tranfers industries well, good retirment, almost the perfect job.




I would 100% take a job as a corporate lobbyist if offered. Sounds like a pretty big raise, plus I get to hang out with actual power.



Why am I not surprised? :facepalm3:


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26331845 - 11/19/19 05:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

They don't take sellout shroomerites in a poltically charged world.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26331850 - 11/19/19 05:48 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

There are a lot of people that would sell out the world for a bag of gold coins. It's unfortunate... People should know being rich doesn't make you happy; if anything I'd say most rich people are miserable deep down.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26331881 - 11/19/19 05:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Is Tulsi Gabbard. She is the only candidate that could shift enough votes away from Trump to win. Doesn't matter how many people go out and vote for Bernie, they were the same ones that didn't vote for Trump last time anyways; those who got Trump elected last time will undoubtedly vote Trump again if their other option is Sanders, or any of the other candidates except perhaps Tulsi; and even then it would be a really tight race.

Tulsi could be the first female president. She's more of an Independent than a Democrat. Her military service, her opposition to regime change wars and many of her opinions are appreciated by many if not most of those people who voted for Trump.

Sadly, I find it highly unlikely for Tulsi to be selected by the democrats. So I hope yall are ready for either another 4 years of Trump, or civil war / tyranny if Trump is removed/killed.




Only Jesus could beat Trump at this point.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: meltdowner] * 1
    #26331900 - 11/19/19 06:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

We shall see. I voted for Trump; but mainly because I felt the other option was worse; not because I thought Trump was such a great guy...


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26331905 - 11/19/19 06:03 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Cool.

So you can save your soul.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26331920 - 11/19/19 06:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

lol; we'll see if I even vote this time around; if the dems put anyone but Tulsi or Yang in I'll probably vote Trump; they put Bernie in and I probably won't bother voting at all; I personally feel like they're the same person but polarized in different directions (a couple con men playing their roles; but maybe i'm wrong maybe Bernie is legit; hell maybe trump is legit) it might be interesting to see what Bernie could do in 4 years; if he is legit.

I think a lot of more 'independent' people like myself who voted Trump feel similar.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26331924 - 11/19/19 06:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Ner der


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Onlinechristopera
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26331936 - 11/19/19 06:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I like to think the rapture already happened and we are down on earth enjoying ourselves. Meanwhile all the douches that were devoted enough to get raptured are in heaven sucking gods dick. What a blast that must be.

Then again, I'm not a particularly religious man.

All of that said, Independents are polling away from Trump major.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26332003 - 11/19/19 06:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
We shall see. I voted for Trump; but mainly because I felt the other option was worse; not because I thought Trump was such a great guy...



I don't think anyone voted for Trump because he was a great guy.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: christopera]
    #26332004 - 11/19/19 06:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
I like to think the rapture already happened and we are down on earth enjoying ourselves. Meanwhile all the douches that were devoted enough to get raptured are in heaven sucking gods dick. What a blast that must be.

Then again, I'm not a particularly religious man.

All of that said, Independents are polling away from Trump major.




Funny, no one polled me and I'm independent.

I vote for whoever makes America great again.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: YangSupporter]
    #26332005 - 11/19/19 06:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I wonder if 90% of America wants to be a corporate shill.  It pays well, tranfers industries well, good retirment, almost the perfect job.




I would 100% take a job as a corporate lobbyist if offered. Sounds like a pretty big raise, plus I get to hang out with actual power.



Why am I not surprised? :facepalm3:




Because I don't subscribe to "peace love and shrooms are all you need, bro".

My list includes money. I can do everything better with money. It's sorta like a personal UBI, ya know? No stress, no sticks, no seeds, just sticky icky icky.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26332006 - 11/19/19 06:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I wonder if 90% of America wants to be a corporate shill.  It pays well, tranfers industries well, good retirment, almost the perfect job.




I would 100% take a job as a corporate lobbyist if offered. Sounds like a pretty big raise, plus I get to hang out with actual power.



Why am I not surprised? :facepalm3:




Because I don't subscribe to "peace love and shrooms are all you need, bro".

My list includes money. I can do everything better with money. It's sorta like a personal UBI, ya know? No stress, no sticks, no seeds, just sticky icky icky.



Pot smokers, I never dated a dope do'er.  Gross bro.
Shrooms or bust.


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InvisibleYangSupporter
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26332023 - 11/19/19 06:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

[
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

YangSupporter said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I wonder if 90% of America wants to be a corporate shill.  It pays well, tranfers industries well, good retirment, almost the perfect job.




I would 100% take a job as a corporate lobbyist if offered. Sounds like a pretty big raise, plus I get to hang out with actual power.



Why am I not surprised? :facepalm3:




Because I don't subscribe to "peace love and shrooms are all you need, bro".

My list includes money. I can do everything better with money. It's sorta like a personal UBI, ya know? No stress, no sticks, no seeds, just sticky icky icky.



Ok boomer


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: YangSupporter] * 2
    #26332027 - 11/19/19 06:59 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

got'em!


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26332077 - 11/19/19 07:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:

We need a "dolla dolla bills, yo" smiley.


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26333396 - 11/20/19 12:03 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Bernie is the only candidate who can beat trump. Mark my words Warren will get absolutely destroyed in the general. Biden as well.

Bernie is the only one with an open book past and decades of unchanging unflinching ideals. The fact that he will again lose the nomination is the soul cause for both the first 4 years and the impending 4 more. Trump could not debate bernie. Period.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26333461 - 11/20/19 12:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know, socialism in any form is a bad word for anyone born prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinedreamachine

Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26333648 - 11/20/19 02:06 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
Bernie is the only candidate who can beat trump. Mark my words Warren will get absolutely destroyed in the general. Biden as well.

Bernie is the only one with an open book past and decades of unchanging unflinching ideals. The fact that he will again lose the nomination is the soul cause for both the first 4 years and the impending 4 more. Trump could not debate bernie. Period.



I don't think you're putting into consideration the number of people that disagree with Bernie who voted Trump last time... I don't see many people who voted Trump last time voting Bernie this time, even if he was nominated. I mean every person I've met or heard of who voted for Trump don't like Bernie very much (and that's putting it nicely)

Most Bernie supporters don't seem to understand that.


Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I don't know, socialism in any form is a bad word for anyone born prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall.



exactly; and that's just one part of it (albeit a pretty major part)


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26333670 - 11/20/19 02:21 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Depends on the generation.  If they were older before Vietnam they worship the state as part of their religion.  Young adulthood during or after the Vietnam war they do this less and tend to find it disgusting.  Of course there are many that don't fall that way.  Those that served, overly religious, fox news worshippers.

Right wing propaganda has been thick for decades and has poisoned peoples hearts and minds.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26333728 - 11/20/19 02:34 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Depends on the generation.  If they were older before Vietnam they worship the state as part of their religion.  Young adulthood during or after the Vietnam war they do this less and tend to find it disgusting.  Of course there are many that don't fall that way.  Those that served, overly religious, fox news worshippers.

Right wing propaganda has been thick for decades and has poisoned peoples hearts and minds.




The misery that is upon us is but the passing of greed.


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Offlinedreamachine

Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26333741 - 11/20/19 02:38 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Depends on the generation.  If they were older before Vietnam they worship the state as part of their religion.  Young adulthood during or after the Vietnam war they do this less and tend to find it disgusting.  Of course there are many that don't fall that way.  Those that served, overly religious, fox news worshippers.

Right wing propaganda has been thick for decades and has poisoned peoples hearts and minds.



What's weird too is the contingent in the left that have become state worshippers as well; all those who sycophantically praise the Clintons and Obama and other politicians; despite their insane history of corruption.

Use to be the left and liberals / progressives were 'anarchistic' I remember when the Occupy movement was rolling around. But now it seems a large chunk of that group has sold out to the state so long as their party has power and through their party having power they feel they have power; even if that party is screwing them over at every turn; same kind of shit seen on the right. I guess what happened is a lot of people got older and gave up their idealism and decided to sell and choose a team.


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26333779 - 11/20/19 02:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Depends on the generation.  If they were older before Vietnam they worship the state as part of their religion.  Young adulthood during or after the Vietnam war they do this less and tend to find it disgusting.  Of course there are many that don't fall that way.  Those that served, overly religious, fox news worshippers.

Right wing propaganda has been thick for decades and has poisoned peoples hearts and minds.



What's weird too is the contingent in the left that have become state worshippers as well; all those who sycophantically praise the Clintons and Obama and other politicians; despite their insane history of corruption.

Use to be the left and liberals / progressives were 'anarchistic' I remember when the Occupy movement was rolling around. But now it seems a large chunk of that group has sold out to the state so long as their party has power and through their party having power they feel they have power; even if that party is screwing them over at every turn; same kind of shit seen on the right. I guess what happened is a lot of people got older and gave up their idealism and decided to sell and choose a team.




So we should both wake up and realize bernie is awful but also not like biden.

Bernie is the definition of anti-establishment. Hide behind this "state worshippers" line of semantics all you want. Bernie is the wrench in the system we need but will never get because how heavily he is dismissed as utopian / nonsense.

I dont need permission or admiration to recognize the superior candidate on the field.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26333786 - 11/20/19 02:53 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Whether or not Bernie is righteous unfortunately doesn't matter if he can't sway enough votes from Trump. Which I'm pretty sure he can't. Tulsi has a military record, she's the most independent / balanced candidate; she's probably the only one that can sway enough voters from Trump to have a chance at winning

that said the DNC is probably gonna try put in Hillary or Biden or some other mega-corrupt illuminati fuck, so it probably wont matter; Trump's either gonna win 2020 or we're gonna have a civil war and or a Deep State takeover; that's my bet at least. lol


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26333804 - 11/20/19 03:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Whether or not Bernie is righteous unfortunately doesn't matter if he can't sway enough votes from Trump. Which I'm pretty sure he can't. Tulsi has a military record, she's the most independent / balanced candidate; she's probably the only one that can sway enough voters from Trump to have a chance at winning

that said the DNC is probably gonna try put in Hillary or Biden or some other mega-corrupt illuminati fuck, so it probably wont matter; Trump's either gonna win 2020 or we're gonna have a civil war and or a Deep State takeover; that's my bet at least. lol




Youre preaching to the choir if you are gonna talk about eventual Biden nomination. It was a scam last election and it will be a scam this election.

Biden is the culmination of everything that is wrong with the democrat party. Establishment candidates can go suck eggs.

The point im making is Bernie WOULD DESTROY trump in the general. Bernie has substance and a squeaky clean record and draws the crowd. And he 100 percent WILL lose the nomination due to bullshit. The way every media outlet talks about him is as if he is a stray dog. The bias is insane and is manifesting itself right here in this convo saying that Bernie couldnt pull votes off trump.

Trump EATS establishment candidates. Cruz, Bush, and of course Clinton. He only won the nomination because republicans have been being tricked by these robots for decades and it was easy for trump to steamroll them. He exposes them and they are helpless. Biden is the worst possible choice. It would be like throwing in a house dog in as the practice before the money fight.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26333813 - 11/20/19 03:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I hear you. But tbh I think Bernie had his shot last time and fucked up; especially when he conceded to Hillary and didn't push his position.

Tulsi got the female thing, she's hot, she's not establishment, she echoes a lot of what Bernie and Yang talk about, and most importantly when it comes to defeating Trump she is a veteran and speaks up against the regime change wars (much more so than any of the other candidates; matter fact I think Bernie was one of the folks who joined the attack on Trump when it came to Trumps 'pullout' of Syria; correct me if I'm wrong)

that said; whether or not Bernie could defeat Trump, or Tulsi could defeat both, the system is probably gonna fuck the people again; and


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26333896 - 11/20/19 03:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The less people trust the government, the shittier things get.

This is always been true, this will always be true, and this is likely why the US is gonna stay in the shitter for a while.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26333900 - 11/20/19 03:56 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed. The less trustworthy the government is, the less it is trusted by the people, and thus the less the government represents the people.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26333902 - 11/20/19 03:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
What's weird too is the contingent in the left that have become state worshippers as well; all those who sycophantically praise the Clintons and Obama and other politicians; despite their insane history of corruption.



I've noticed that too.  :thumbup:

Tulsi and Bernie are both fantastic choices.


Quote:

dreamachine said:
whether or not Bernie could defeat Trump, or Tulsi could defeat both, the system is probably gonna fuck the people again



:awesomenod:


--------------------
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Invisiblerelic
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26334661 - 11/20/19 11:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Is Tulsi Gabbard. She is the only candidate that could shift enough votes away from Trump to win. Doesn't matter how many people go out and vote for Bernie, they were the same ones that didn't vote for Trump last time anyways; those who got Trump elected last time will undoubtedly vote Trump again if their other option is Sanders, or any of the other candidates except perhaps Tulsi; and even then it would be a really tight race.






No. There were many Bernie supporters that protest voted trump, or The Reptile, or some other nonsense write in.  Enough of them and swayable independents vote for Bernie in just three states--while holding the states Dems previously won--and we have a new potus.



Quote:

dreamachine said:
I personally feel like they're the same person but polarized in different directions (a couple con men playing their roles; but maybe i'm wrong maybe Bernie is legit;





Whoa, man, whoa.  I'm by no means the biggest berniebro, but an indisputable fact is that Bernie has been real, has been true to his ethics and morals, and has been actively and consistently trying to change america for the better ever since he was being arrested while marching with MLK some sixty years ago.  He's anything but a conman.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: relic] * 1
    #26337160 - 11/21/19 10:42 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Wasn't a good amount of his staff less than $15/hr? I know that's kind of a petty example but... Plus he jumped on Trump when it comes to Russia, which everyone whose honest with themselves knows is BS. and then didn't he decry Trump for 'pulling' out of Syria cuz 'the kurds'?

I don't know I feel like Bernie is like Trump, he tells a large faction of people what they want to hear, but in reality is another puppet of the system; I could be wrong, and Bernie could actually have his heart in the right place (Trump too) but maybe when you get in that arena you are instantly corrupted or destroyed.

who knows, I just get a shady vibe from Bernie, same vibe I get from Trump. Tulsi I don't get that vibe as much. maybe it's just my stupid 'anti-establishment' 'anti-pop culture' ideals and seeing Bernie so propped up by the masses on the left instantly puts me at odds with him. I like underground shit, and Bernie too popular for me; plus he's not quite balanced enough; I hear both the left and right shitting on 'centrists' a lot lately, but I think that a centrist/independent candidate is what America should always have. The idea that we should elect people that half of the country can't stand every 4-8 years, so that congress can completely gridlock every time, and so that the bills people want to get passed never get passed is a stupid way of doing things imo.

Tulsi on the other hand is probably the most centrist of the candidates I can think of that stands a chance. But this is all wasted text, cuz we both know the chances of Bernie or Tulsi getting nominated are close to 0. Unfortunately.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26337175 - 11/21/19 10:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)






Bernie is the wrench in the system we need but will never get because how heavily he is dismissed as utopian / nonsense.





If you are looking for a wrench in the system you cannot deny Donald Trump is that.

He never held office before being elected so he is about as outside the establishment a president as we have ever had.

If you want to shake the political system why would you want to vote in another politician?
</font></font>


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26337196 - 11/21/19 11:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I would have agreed with you a year ago, but I'm starting to think more and more that Trump might have been part of the system this whole time; that all the attacks on him were all planned out so that big tech and the government could engage in censoring the American people under the guise of it being a partisan issue. It's starting to feel more and more that Trump might be a double agent, and I think those of us who elected Trump in particular might want to start considering that as being a possibility.

I hope it's not, but so far it seems 90% of the good that Trump has done has only enriched the richest in America and so far I haven't seen that trickle down (that said one could argue that enough time hasn't passed for that to happen but I don't know) on the other hand, under Trump's watch free speech has been decimated and censorship is rampant, and people are being silenced under the guise of private ownership of social media platforms and partisan differences. (though the left that controls big tech claims its not political but we all know that's BS)

We'll see if I'm right if big tech starts censoring 'alt-left' people like those who support Bernie/Yang/Tulsi; and from what I'm seeing that censorship and silencing has already begun (though nowhere close to the level it is for those on the right; so far)

who knows time will tell, I hope i'm wrong, but I would advice everyone to prep for worse case scenarios asap.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26337241 - 11/21/19 11:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

my wages are up, my stocks are up, my dick is up

I understand if it aint working for you but things have never been better for me


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26337263 - 11/21/19 11:37 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Happy for you; wish that increase was seen leveling across the wealth spectrum. Not that i'm calling for socialism/communism, I think those systems are too vulnerable to corruption. However, something like Yang's $1k/mo across the board I could see really boosting the economy, and encouraging more entrepreneurism and reducing poverty and crime; then again the entire system might just adjust 'inflation' according to that $1k/mo and essentially make it null (like how when wages increase mcdonalds prices increase as well)

I think the only way this system is going to avoid total collapse is that the rich (the really rich in particular) are going to have to engage in WAY more generosity; paying their employees more, running legit programs to help communities (and not to embezzle and launder money and shit)

If the top 10% don't start raining money on the bottom 90% real quick theres gonna be some serious destabilization coming soon to a theater near us. imo

in all honesty this whole system is doomed I think; automation and robotics is going to replace humans at a faster and faster rate, and pretty soon a massive percentage of the population is going to be unemployed; too much for society to handle the way our system currently operates.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26337266 - 11/21/19 11:42 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You must acknowledge that the rich are rich because they have at some point, done something that made a lot of money.

Microsoft, amazon, whatever. These things that made them rich also provided great societal benefit.

Jobs, services, products.

These people do not have to build anything. Yet they do and become rich for it.

They do not need to run those companies that create jobs and service the public.

They do this by choice and that, is generous.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26337273 - 11/21/19 11:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The rise in censorship is abhorrent yet people do not make the effort to learn the fact of the matter anyways. Censorship as it is now, does not stop you from going beyond the mainstream narrative but you can lead a horse to water you cant make em drink.

If they chose to watch a fairytale network spin agendas into hurricanes then its their god given right as americans to do so

Censoring speech on a platform that is owned by a private citizen is something you consent to.

You all agreed to the terms of serivce on the website it doesnt matter if you read the agreement or not you legally signed off on being ok with this. You should not have accepted the terms of service.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26337361 - 11/22/19 02:14 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

This:

Quote:

dreamachine said:
The democrats don't need tulsi to spoil their race lmfao




This:

Quote:

dreamachine said:
They seem more like corporate shills than anything if you ask me; then again that's pretty much everyone in politics; barring a few




:kenthumbup:


--------------------



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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage] * 1
    #26337497 - 11/22/19 06:31 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
my wages are up, my stocks are up, my dick is up

I understand if it aint working for you but things have never been better for me




What stocks do you have that are up?


--------------------
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I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26337540 - 11/22/19 07:12 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Rich people run companies and get richer and that's generous because they could just be average shit-upon workers instead of providing all this richness to themselves. 


Holy shit.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26337574 - 11/22/19 07:53 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
You must acknowledge that the rich are rich because they have at some point, done something that made a lot of money.




Or, at least, someone at some point did something to make themselves rich and passed that money down.

I don't recall donnie ever doing anything except a few bankruptcies.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26337576 - 11/22/19 07:56 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Does being born rich count as doing something that made a lot of money?


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: christopera]
    #26337625 - 11/22/19 08:23 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Tulsi reminds me of McCain in terms of appeal, great on paper but something missing in terms of cult of personality needed to be president. We've had two presidents in a row that have managed to electrify their respective bases and opponents in equal measures, in other words hard acts to follow.

I'm near ground 0 for 2020 and Pete is getting more excitement by far.


--------------------
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OfflineFungiMaster
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: christopera]
    #26337627 - 11/22/19 08:24 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

As far as the rapture goes, just some religious fucks writing another book. I read a version of the bible. It was so annoying when jesus was introduced and then died. After that I couldn't read the book anymore. Got like 3/4 or more done with the book. Couldn't imagine a version with the rapture in it. Some bad trip bullshit some demonic asshole came up with.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: FungiMaster]
    #26337657 - 11/22/19 08:35 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Being born rich still requires that someone made the money.

You can be as jealous as you want and you can be as bitter as you want sitting there hating people for being rich because you aren't

The fact is, these people provided value to society and were rewarded for it. They managed their money responsibly so that they could pass it down.

You hate them for being at the top because you fail to acknowledge that they really do deserve to be there wether you like it or not.

How about you build an empire like these rich men did? It is not easy, nobody got there without making mistakes. These people took risks and it paid off.

Keep working your wage slave jobs and not investing your money and you will keep being bitter at people that have more than you.

Nobody is stopping you from becoming rich except your own lack of drive and ambition and I think this is where the hatred for the rich comes from. People see them at the top and refuse to see what got them there. Instead of trying to better themselves they simply blame the rich because "muh inequality".


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: relic]
    #26337668 - 11/22/19 08:40 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
Rich people run companies and get richer and that's generous because they could just be average shit-upon workers instead of providing all this richness to themselves. 


Holy shit.




Rich people could shut down their corporations tomorrow and hundreds of thousands would lose their source of income instantly.

They do not have to run businesses, we are not entitled to their companies and the jobs they provide.

The rich keep everyone employed and if you cannot see that then how about you go work for poor people, oh wait, THEY DO NOT OWN BUSINESSES


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage] * 2
    #26337682 - 11/22/19 08:48 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Rich people only own businesses as long as there are poor people buying their shit.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26337692 - 11/22/19 08:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Rich people only own businesses as long as there are poor people buying their shit.




This is my point. You all rely on the products created by these companies.

They make our lives more convenient and comfortable because we chose to buy them.

Imagine having to make your own soap, toothpaste, shoes, clothes, car, anything instead of buying it.

The rich people burden themselves establishing the distribution and production networks that make modern standard of living possible.

Not only that but they give you the money you need to buy these things via employment.

People really wana bite the hand that feeds them I guess. Because these people could stop production tomorrow and then what? They do not have to supply you goods you would have to make them yourself.

So we pay them, they grow rich, because they provide value ^


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage] * 1
    #26337725 - 11/22/19 09:08 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You're confusing the 1% with the 0.01%.

Sure, some of the millionaires are providing value by creating companies. Billionaires don't do that. You don't make a billion dollars like that. You make billions through financial speculation, and financial speculation alone.

The richest among us hide behind the 1%, and to an extent, they hide behind the aspirational 15, who include high paid professionals like doctors and lawyers. They want you to equate the two, because those in the top 15% create value through hard work.

The 0.01% do not create value. They simply live off the fact that money begins to attract money at a certain point.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26337740 - 11/22/19 09:15 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The richest men in the world create value. Bezos, Jack Ma, Carlos Slim. Amazon, alibaba, all the telecommunications in Mexico.

Great services that improve the lives of many

You say money attracts money but you are still failing to realize the had to get money in the first place

You cannot financially speculate without finances. There is no spontaneous generation of wealth.

You are also failing to acknowledge the amount of philanthropy the uber rich are involved in, not out of generosity but out of tax incentives.

At a certain point its expensive to make a ton of money so rather than give all of it to the government in the form of taxes they donate to philanthropic programs to save themselves money.

Maybe the goal is to keep people looking up and cursing at those above them so they miss that the path to the top is laid in front of them.


Edited by CornboySavage (11/22/19 09:17 AM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26337798 - 11/22/19 09:45 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
You say money attracts money but you are still failing to realize the had to get money in the first place




Maybe they're born with it, maybe it's maybelline.

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
You are also failing to acknowledge the amount of philanthropy the uber rich are involved in, not out of generosity but out of tax incentives.

At a certain point its expensive to make a ton of money so rather than give all of it to the government in the form of taxes they donate to philanthropic programs to save themselves money.




Yeah, Sorta like how the Waltons run a "philanthropic" art gallery. A private art gallery. In a wing of their mansion. Sorta like donnie ran a "philanthropic" campaign slush fund for "veterans" (I hear dodging STDs is harder than dodging bullets).

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
Maybe the goal is to keep people looking up and cursing at those above them so they miss that the path to the top is laid in front of them.




The path to the top does not exist for any individual person. The path to the top exists for their dynasty. Even Bezos is small fry compared to the Rothschilds. You, personally, will never make it to the 0.01% unless you are either born wealthy or run into insane luck. Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, Ma, they were born into wealth, and they were very lucky. Which is why they're billionaires.


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26337813 - 11/22/19 09:52 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, you refuse to entertain any contrary argument in favor of clinging to your beliefs.

You have every right to do that it just baffles me that someone would waste the time "Debating" with no intention of entertaining opposing argument.

Seems like you just like to hear yourself reinforce your beliefs and that is fine. I have seen how you treat people of differing opinions in political threads I should have never entertained you as you do not argue in good faith and you seek to destroy the other rather than work towards a solution.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage] * 1
    #26337832 - 11/22/19 10:00 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Idolizing billionaires gets people nowhere.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineCornboySavage
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26337840 - 11/22/19 10:06 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Idolizing billionaires gets people nowhere.




Idolizing
verb (used with object), i·dol·ized, i·dol·iz·ing.
to regard with blind adoration, devotion, etc.
to worship as a god.

I am pointing out that there are benefits provided to society by the wealthy if you equate this to idolization I refer you to a dictionary


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26337866 - 11/22/19 10:16 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

v. i·dol·ized, i·dol·iz·ing, i·dol·iz·es
1. To regard with great or uncritical admiration or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.
2. To worship as an Idol

The world very rarely separates admiration from Idolization.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26338162 - 11/22/19 01:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Idolizing billionaires gets people nowhere.



Nor will demonizing them.

They're just people with more money, some like Bezos were not born rich, some were. Some people like shaq were born with physical talents that made them rich, others like gates were born with mental talents that made them rich.

Hate the game if you want but don't hate the winners cause they won, that just makes you a sore loser.


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Indirect Weighing tek


Edited by Sugabearcrisp (11/22/19 01:20 PM)


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OfflineOmnipotenTurd
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26338172 - 11/22/19 01:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Tulsi is a controversy magnet.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: OmnipotenTurd]
    #26338225 - 11/22/19 01:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Either puppets or new trolls that will not last long.

Nobody is demonizimg billionaires anymore than they deserve for their cheating the system.  Why should a billionare pay less taxes?


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26338303 - 11/22/19 02:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

What makes you think they pay less taxes?

Income tax rates on ordinary income are quite progressive. If you don't like the way the rest of the tax code breaks down blame your legislators.

Cheating is only cheating if you break the rules so unless we're talking pablo Escobar or el chapo, these billionaires played within the rules, so again blame the rule makers not the people who exploited the rules.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage] * 1
    #26338324 - 11/22/19 02:49 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
You can be as jealous as you want and you can be as bitter as you want sitting there hating people for being rich because you aren't

The fact is, these people provided value to society and were rewarded for it.



Speaking for myself, I'm not jealous of people that started a business and made themselves a lot of money.  I'm jealous that their kids who didn't do shit, and get to keep everything.  That's like divine right.

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
Rich people could shut down their corporations tomorrow and hundreds of thousands would lose their source of income instantly.



False.  If the rich shut down their corporations, others could quickly move in to fill the void.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #26338325 - 11/22/19 02:49 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
What makes you think they pay less taxes?

Income tax rates on ordinary income are quite progressive. If you don't like the way the rest of the tax code breaks down blame your legislators.

Cheating is only cheating if you break the rules so unless we're talking pablo Escobar or el chapo, these billionaires played within the rules, so again blame the rule makers not the people who exploited the rules.




Who lobbies in Washington to buy off "the rule makers"?  Yeah, the billionaires!!!!!


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26338329 - 11/22/19 02:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
What makes you think they pay less taxes?



The super rich generally get taxed on capital gains rather than income, which is lower.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26338439 - 11/22/19 03:38 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
What makes you think they pay less taxes?

Income tax rates on ordinary income are quite progressive. If you don't like the way the rest of the tax code breaks down blame your legislators.

Cheating is only cheating if you break the rules so unless we're talking pablo Escobar or el chapo, these billionaires played within the rules, so again blame the rule makers not the people who exploited the rules.





Billionaires are very politically active to affect the legislation as it pleases them.


--------------------
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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26338617 - 11/22/19 05:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The NRA is a super powerful lobby driven by individuals. Many strong lobbies are driven by corporations and unions or trade orgs.

I think we can all agree lobbyist should be outlawed or vastly limited in their ability to use money.

Capital gains is a bit tricky, in one respect it hits all people with gains equally, on the other hand it is not a progressive tax structure, in part because it is a tax on money made on already taxed money. Make it progressive and linked to income and investment dries up or leaves for more favorable climates. End of the day investment money is highly mobile and you quickly find you get less of what you projected because the tax you inacted changes behaviors.


Income, property and consumption taxes work better because people generally can't avoid them.


Quote:

OmnipotenTurd said:
Tulsi is a controversy magnet.




She's a dud.


Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Either puppets or new trolls that will not last long.




This is so juvenile ... maybe I mistook your gamer chat for a real open discussion


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26338631 - 11/22/19 05:32 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Independents aren't polling strongly for anybody.  Trump is going to keep on acting like himself, and all the Democrats running have veered so far left that they're shooting themselves in the foot.  It's not going to be pretty, but as long as the economy keeps like it is there is no doubt that DJT will be in the White House another 4 years.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26338696 - 11/22/19 06:00 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:


This is so juvenile ... maybe I mistook your gamer chat for a real open discussion




:puppetmaster:


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26338828 - 11/22/19 06:56 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

CornboySavage said:
my wages are up, my stocks are up, my dick is up

I understand if it aint working for you but things have never been better for me




What stocks do you have that are up?



AMD
most stocks are up.  As is my 401k.
Not.sure why anyone is hating Trump.  He's doing a great job...exactly what he ran on.  First honest politician ive ever seen.  If the media hates you, youre doing it right.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26338838 - 11/22/19 07:01 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

C'mon man.  Keep the reddit responses on reddit.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #26339102 - 11/22/19 09:03 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Capital gains is a bit tricky... Make it progressive and linked to income and investment dries up or leaves for more favorable climates.



That's like saying make income tax progressive and work will dry up.

Capital gains only taxes gains.  Anyone would rather take a gain taxed at 50% than no gain at all taxed at 0%.

Example:
$1,000,000 gained taxed at 50% = $500,000 pocketed
$0 gained taxed at 0% = $0 pocketed.

Would you rather have $500,000 or $0?


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 2
    #26339380 - 11/23/19 12:22 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Idolizing billionaires gets people nowhere.



Nor will demonizing them.

They're just people with more money, some like Bezos were not born rich, some were. Some people like shaq were born with physical talents that made them rich, others like gates were born with mental talents that made them rich.

Hate the game if you want but don't hate the winners cause they won, that just makes you a sore loser.




Bezos' family owned a 25,000 acre ranch, he is related to a guy known as "The King of Country" (music), and his father is an engineer.

He was born into the top 1%.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: meltdowner] * 1
    #26339465 - 11/23/19 04:00 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

CornboySavage said:
my wages are up, my stocks are up, my dick is up

I understand if it aint working for you but things have never been better for me




What stocks do you have that are up?



AMD
most stocks are up.  As is my 401k.
Not.sure why anyone is hating Trump.  He's doing a great job...exactly what he ran on.  First honest politician ive ever seen.  If the media hates you, youre doing it right.




You are making shit up. Trump had good market gains with his tax cut that future generations have to pay for. His trade war screwed the stock market and made American consumers pay higher prices. It was a complete lose/lose.  If you disagree, post CURRENT data that shows that Trump's stock market rates well compared to other Presidents.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26339500 - 11/23/19 05:18 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Capital gains is a bit tricky... Make it progressive and linked to income and investment dries up or leaves for more favorable climates.



That's like saying make income tax progressive and work will dry up.

Capital gains only taxes gains.  Anyone would rather take a gain taxed at 50% than no gain at all taxed at 0%.

Example:
$1,000,000 gained taxed at 50% = $500,000 pocketed
$0 gained taxed at 0% = $0 pocketed.

Would you rather have $500,000 or $0?



No it is not. People make income where they live and pay taxes on it where they live. Investment income as I mentioned is highly mobile. If I am rich I can move my money to somewhere else and avoid the 50% capital gains tax. And I'll do it before Warren or Bernie even gets into office and way before any law is passed.

In terms of work drying up if they make the top rated high enough either my wife or I will stop working. Plain and simple, we are high tech workers in the top earning stage of our lives, already paying close to 50% to the govts local and fed. If you bump the top rates higher she will stop working, maybe grow shrooms for cash and tax revenue will be down.

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Idolizing billionaires gets people nowhere.



Nor will demonizing them.

They're just people with more money, some like Bezos were not born rich, some were. Some people like shaq were born with physical talents that made them rich, others like gates were born with mental talents that made them rich.

Hate the game if you want but don't hate the winners cause they won, that just makes you a sore loser.




Bezos' family owned a 25,000 acre ranch, he is related to a guy known as "The King of Country" (music), and his father is an engineer.

He was born into the top 1%.




Try reading the wiki next time. Bezos parents were school teachers and bike shop owners. A 25000 acre ranch in Texas doesn't put you in the to 1% ... unless it's sitting on a huge oil deposit.


--------------------
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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26339934 - 11/23/19 11:05 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Capital gains is a bit tricky... Make it progressive and linked to income and investment dries up or leaves for more favorable climates.



That's like saying make income tax progressive and work will dry up.

Capital gains only taxes gains.  Anyone would rather take a gain taxed at 50% than no gain at all taxed at 0%.

Example:
$1,000,000 gained taxed at 50% = $500,000 pocketed
$0 gained taxed at 0% = $0 pocketed.

Would you rather have $500,000 or $0?



No it is not. People make income where they live and pay taxes on it where they live. Investment income as I mentioned is highly mobile. If I am rich I can move my money to somewhere else and avoid the 50% capital gains tax. And I'll do it before Warren or Bernie even gets into office and way before any law is passed.

In terms of work drying up if they make the top rated high enough either my wife or I will stop working. Plain and simple, we are high tech workers in the top earning stage of our lives, already paying close to 50% to the govts local and fed. If you bump the top rates higher she will stop working, maybe grow shrooms for cash and tax revenue will be down.





Lol "If taxes go up, I'll just stop working!"

Gonna be a welfare queen?


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26339955 - 11/23/19 11:20 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Thats how it works, bruh.  Thats why nobody worked until Reagan


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 2
    #26339957 - 11/23/19 11:21 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Capital gains only taxes gains.  Anyone would rather take a gain taxed at 50% than no gain at all taxed at 0%.

Example:
$1,000,000 gained taxed at 50% = $500,000 pocketed
$0 gained taxed at 0% = $0 pocketed.

Would you rather have $500,000 or $0?



No it is not. People make income where they live and pay taxes on it where they live. Investment income as I mentioned is highly mobile. If I am rich I can move my money to somewhere else and avoid the 50% capital gains tax. And I'll do it before Warren or Bernie even gets into office and way before any law is passed.



Incorrect.  All US citizens are subject to US taxes on both their income and capital gains, no matter where the money is located, and no matter where that person is living.  You get a foreign tax credit for any taxes you already paid abroad, but you still have to pay whatever balance is left to the US, so moving money doesn't reduce your tax burden.

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
In terms of work drying up if they make the top rated high enough either my wife or I will stop working. Plain and simple, we are high tech workers in the top earning stage of our lives, already paying close to 50% to the govts local and fed. If you bump the top rates higher she will stop working, maybe grow shrooms for cash and tax revenue will be down.



Using my example above, if you'd rather take home peanuts taxed at 0% than $500,000 taxed at 50%, then you're not the brightest.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26339960 - 11/23/19 11:23 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Thats how it works, bruh.  Thats why nobody worked until Reagan




Interesting. So the golden age of the post war US never happened?


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26339962 - 11/23/19 11:24 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Fake news.  :lol:


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26340007 - 11/23/19 11:42 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

If you think there aren't ways for billionaires to transfer wealth outside the country and continue to earn on it you are naive.

Even in your scenario the tax credit for foreign taxes paid is still money not in the fed reserve.

Lolz at your 500k scenario, do you even know tax code? Cause that ain't how it works and you showed how ignorant you are with that statement


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26340039 - 11/23/19 11:55 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Of course they can transfer wealth outside the country.  My point is that it doesn't matter, it's still subject to US taxes.

Yes, I know the tax code, I have an MBA.

If you can show I'm wrong about this with links, please do.  I'm always happy to learn something new.  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26340058 - 11/23/19 12:01 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I think suga is suggesting that since you're using hypothetical numbers, your argument is bullshit.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26340073 - 11/23/19 12:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

It is still a tax shelter to protect investments

Money gets a fee for transfer in or out of the country but nobody pays taxes on money outside of the nation that is increasing interest.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26340075 - 11/23/19 12:09 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Lolz at your 500k scenario, do you even know tax code? Cause that ain't how it works and you showed how ignorant you are with that statement



Of course they can transfer wealth outside the country.  My point is that it doesn't matter, it's still subject to US taxes.

Yes, I know the tax code, I have an MBA.

If you can show I'm wrong about this with links, please do.  I'm always happy to learn something new.  :popcorn:



I think suga is suggesting that since you're using hypothetical numbers, your argument is bullshit.



If so, my numbers might be slightly different using today's actual tax rates, which I'll use instead if asked.  But the concept is the same.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340090 - 11/23/19 12:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
It is still a tax shelter to protect investments



No, it is not.  US citizens are subject to US taxes no matter where their money is, and no matter where they are.

If You Trade Around The World, You Need To Know IRS Rules


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26340102 - 11/23/19 12:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Proof and proof it actually works?

If it is like us customs it's a huge fail.


--------------------
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In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340106 - 11/23/19 12:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_shelter

I don't have a fancy schmancy know it all degree


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340378 - 11/23/19 02:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_shelter

I don't have a fancy schmancy know it all degree



Did I say there were no such thing as a tax shelters?  No, I said capital gains are taxed whether they are earned in the US or abroad.

Can you tell us where in your link it says capital gains made abroad are exempt from the US capital gains tax?


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: CornboySavage]
    #26340379 - 11/23/19 02:08 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CornboySavage said:
The rise in censorship is abhorrent yet people do not make the effort to learn the fact of the matter anyways. Censorship as it is now, does not stop you from going beyond the mainstream narrative but you can lead a horse to water you cant make em drink.

If they chose to watch a fairytale network spin agendas into hurricanes then its their god given right as americans to do so

Censoring speech on a platform that is owned by a private citizen is something you consent to.

You all agreed to the terms of serivce on the website it doesnt matter if you read the agreement or not you legally signed off on being ok with this. You should not have accepted the terms of service.



Have you heard of Section 230 of the Telecommunications Act? If I'm not mistaken it provides 'platforms' with liability protection against being sued because they are 'platforms' and thus cannot logical be held responsible for what individuals post on said 'platform'. However, as soon as these 'platforms' decided to curate/censor their content they became, in effect, publishers, like newspapers, and under law they broke their own 'terms of service' with the Law.

And thus they should now be liable under law for the content that they curate and provide. In effect this means they're protection on S230 should be revoked (meaning that people will be able to sue them out of business) for content on their site that constitutes itself in anyway as being illegal (slander/libel would probably be one of the easiest, however I can imagine that death threats and all kinds of other illegal activity is hosted on these private companies 'platforms'.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26340382 - 11/23/19 02:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The kind of tax shelter you're talking about is insanely illegal.

There is a reason that Obama put in a bunch of banking regulations that banks had to adhere to worldwide if they wanted to do business with (a) US banks and (b) US citizens (legally). And there is a reason donnie scrapped most of those regulations.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340386 - 11/23/19 02:12 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
Quote:

CornboySavage said:
The rise in censorship is abhorrent yet people do not make the effort to learn the fact of the matter anyways. Censorship as it is now, does not stop you from going beyond the mainstream narrative but you can lead a horse to water you cant make em drink.

If they chose to watch a fairytale network spin agendas into hurricanes then its their god given right as americans to do so

Censoring speech on a platform that is owned by a private citizen is something you consent to.

You all agreed to the terms of serivce on the website it doesnt matter if you read the agreement or not you legally signed off on being ok with this. You should not have accepted the terms of service.



Have you heard of Section 230 of the Telecommunications Act? If I'm not mistaken it provides 'platforms' with liability protection against being sued because they are 'platforms' and thus cannot logical be held responsible for what individuals post on said 'platform'. However, as soon as these 'platforms' decided to curate/censor their content they became, in effect, publishers, like newspapers, and under law they broke their own 'terms of service' with the Law.

And thus they should now be liable under law for the content that they curate and provide. In effect this means they're protection on S230 should be revoked (meaning that people will be able to sue them out of business) for content on their site that constitutes itself in anyway as being illegal (slander/libel would probably be one of the easiest, however I can imagine that death threats and all kinds of other illegal activity is hosted on these private companies 'platforms'.




Curating content does not make you a publisher, and being a publisher does not make to liable for what people say on your platform.

Otherwise, Fox wouldn't have so many "opinion" and "entertainment" segments, they'd get sued out of existence.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine] * 2
    #26340388 - 11/23/19 02:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)



That image should really cut through the bullshit when it comes to the righteousness of the rich and wealthy; or should I say lack there of.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26340392 - 11/23/19 02:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
Quote:

CornboySavage said:
The rise in censorship is abhorrent yet people do not make the effort to learn the fact of the matter anyways. Censorship as it is now, does not stop you from going beyond the mainstream narrative but you can lead a horse to water you cant make em drink.

If they chose to watch a fairytale network spin agendas into hurricanes then its their god given right as americans to do so

Censoring speech on a platform that is owned by a private citizen is something you consent to.

You all agreed to the terms of serivce on the website it doesnt matter if you read the agreement or not you legally signed off on being ok with this. You should not have accepted the terms of service.



Have you heard of Section 230 of the Telecommunications Act? If I'm not mistaken it provides 'platforms' with liability protection against being sued because they are 'platforms' and thus cannot logical be held responsible for what individuals post on said 'platform'. However, as soon as these 'platforms' decided to curate/censor their content they became, in effect, publishers, like newspapers, and under law they broke their own 'terms of service' with the Law.

And thus they should now be liable under law for the content that they curate and provide. In effect this means they're protection on S230 should be revoked (meaning that people will be able to sue them out of business) for content on their site that constitutes itself in anyway as being illegal (slander/libel would probably be one of the easiest, however I can imagine that death threats and all kinds of other illegal activity is hosted on these private companies 'platforms'.




Curating content does not make you a publisher, and being a publisher does not make to liable for what people say on your platform.

Otherwise, Fox wouldn't have so many "opinion" and "entertainment" segments, they'd get sued out of existence.



So what is the purpose of S230? Why are social media platforms protected by it if there is no difference between them and news publishers?


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26340394 - 11/23/19 02:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You are completely off topic.  I swear, you're as bad as koods.  You take one thing someone says, because you always ONLY argue, you turn it into something else completely.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine] * 3
    #26340395 - 11/23/19 02:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I think that image should really be split up more.

Conflating the 0.01% with the aspirational 15% (who, while somewhat well off, are generally sitting in the same paycheck-to-paycheck existence that most Americans sit in) provides the richest with a scapegoat and a human shield.

There is no equivalence between a hedge fund billionaire and a small business owner. One spends his day getting hammered on the golf course, and the other busts his ass for 80-100 hours a week. They are both in the top 20%.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26340407 - 11/23/19 02:23 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I could agree with you on that account for sure. That said it speaks volumes that the top 20% holds that much wealth in comparison to the rest. That said when you boil it down to 1% and the 0.01% it exacerbates the ridiculous inequality that is displayed.

This is the shit people should be focusing on, not partisan politics that is a clear smokescreen and diversion imo.


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340416 - 11/23/19 02:27 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)


This one is a little more telling no?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Kryptos]
    #26340507 - 11/23/19 03:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
The kind of tax shelter you're talking about is insanely illegal.



That's what I suspected he was talking about.  :thumbup:


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26340512 - 11/23/19 03:15 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Actually if you'd read the link they discuss details which are not illegal at all.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340515 - 11/23/19 03:16 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Please quote the part where it says money moved abroad is not subject to US taxes.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26340521 - 11/23/19 03:20 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

They give loopholes.

Nobody wants your mind games dude.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340525 - 11/23/19 03:24 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

The illegal ones that Kryptos mentioned.  :shake:

If you disagree, quote the part where it says money moved abroad is not subject to US taxes.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26340530 - 11/23/19 03:26 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I just told you but apparently your mba wasn't in sinple english.

Loopholes.

Give me a second and I'll post where they loophole the taxes and don't pay.  Since your mba cannot read a simple wiki page.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340540 - 11/23/19 03:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

However, tax benefits can be exploited if Import Co. is to set up an offshore subsidiary in the British Virgin Islands to buy the same goods for $1, sell the goods to Import Co. for $3 and sell it again in the domestic market for $3. This allows Import Co. to report taxable income of $0 (because it was purchased for $3 and sold for $3), thus paying no tax

As for tax havens I do not believe you must pay by law money out of the country.  That's why trillions sit in tax havens. 

If I send a million to a bank in africa, I pay fees to export and import it but I don't pay income gax on the account interest to anyone other than that african nation.  Until I move that money back to the us and even then uncle sam doesn't usually trck how much I tranferrd overseas.

It's like you are claiming I have to pay sales tax on a purchase overseas.  I don't.  The account is out of us jurisdiction.  Just like when you go overseas your us funds go through a currency exchange.  The US has no jurisdiction nor authority on money outisde the US that is not their currency.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #26340542 - 11/23/19 03:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:

Lolz at your 500k scenario, do you even know tax code? Cause that ain't how it works and you showed how ignorant you are with that statement





Ok, you've gratuitously declared falcon to be wrong.  Now show and tell us regular Joes how and why he's wrong in your understanding.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340543 - 11/23/19 03:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I mean if I take a trip overseas and become a citizen of whatever country and open an account there.  I don't have to pay taxes on interest gained in a foriegn account just because I am a citizen of the us.

It is retarded to think otherwise


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340551 - 11/23/19 03:37 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

are we really arguing whether or not the elite syphon their money to avoid taxation? lmfao; we know they all do; hell Trump admitted in 2006. (still voted for him, cuz Hillary seemed move evil to me)


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340554 - 11/23/19 03:39 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

He is thinking people are hiding untaxed income overseas.  Which they do and proves my point further.

I am saying you can move your money pretty much as you wish legally.  I don't get taxed because I made money overseas until I Transfer that money to a us bank.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340556 - 11/23/19 03:39 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
are we really arguing whether or not the elite syphon their money to avoid taxation? lmfao; we know they all do; hell Trump admitted in 2006. (still voted for him, cuz Hillary seemed move evil to me)





Falcon claims it doesn't happen via suggestion


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26340570 - 11/23/19 03:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:

As for tax havens I do not believe you must pay by law money out of the country.  That's why trillions sit in tax havens. 

If I send a million to a bank in africa, I pay fees to export and import it but I don't pay income gax on the account interest to anyone other than that african nation.  Until I move that money back to the us and even then uncle sam doesn't usually trck how much I tranferrd overseas.

It's like you are claiming I have to pay sales tax on a purchase overseas.  I don't.  The account is out of us jurisdiction. 





From IRS dot Gov

Quote:



Many United States (U.S.) citizens and resident aliens receive income from foreign sources. There have been recent reports about the interest of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in taxpayers with accounts in Liechtenstein. The interest of the IRS, however, extends beyond accounts in Liechtenstein to accounts anywhere in the world. Consequently, the IRS reminds you to report your worldwide income on your U.S. tax return.

If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, you must report income from all sources within and outside of the U.S.
This is true whether or not you receive a Form W-2 Wage and Tax Statement,  a Form 1099 (Information Return) or the foreign equivalents.  See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information.

Additionally, if you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate and gift tax returns and for paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are living in the U.S. or abroad.

Hiding Income Offshore

Not reporting income from foreign sources may be a crime.
  The IRS and its international partners are pursuing those who hide income or assets offshore to evade taxes. Specially trained IRS examiners focus on aggressive international tax planning, including the abusive use of entities and structures established in foreign jurisdictions.  The goal is to ensure U.S. citizens and residents are accurately reporting their income and paying the correct tax.
Foreign Financial Accounts

In addition to reporting your worldwide income, you must also report on your U.S. tax return whether you have any foreign bank or investment accounts.  The Bank Secrecy Act requires you to file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) (FinCEN Form 114, previously Form TD F 90-22.1),

    You have financial interest in, signature authority, or other authority over one or more accounts in a foreign country, and
    The aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.






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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340572 - 11/23/19 03:45 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I see. So you're fighting over semantics and technicalities vs the overall problem of elite wealth inequality and how they avoid taxation via various loopholes and tricks? lulz


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26340578 - 11/23/19 03:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
  I don't get taxed because I made money overseas until I Transfer that money to a us bank.





:justno:


Have fun. Y'all.  I'm out :peace:


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: relic]
    #26340579 - 11/23/19 03:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I said you have to receive it.  If it is sitting offshore it's arguably not taxable until you recieve it in the us.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: relic]
    #26340583 - 11/23/19 03:48 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:


From IRS dot Gov

Quote:



Many United States (U.S.) citizens and resident aliens receive income from foreign sources. There have been recent reports about the interest of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in taxpayers with accounts in Liechtenstein. The interest of the IRS, however, extends beyond accounts in Liechtenstein to accounts anywhere in the world. Consequently, the IRS reminds you to report your worldwide income on your U.S. tax return.

If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, you must report income from all sources within and outside of the U.S.
This is true whether or not you receive a Form W-2 Wage and Tax Statement,  a Form 1099 (Information Return) or the foreign equivalents.  See Publication 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income, for more information.

Additionally, if you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate and gift tax returns and for paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are living in the U.S. or abroad.

Hiding Income Offshore

Not reporting income from foreign sources may be a crime.
  The IRS and its international partners are pursuing those who hide income or assets offshore to evade taxes. Specially trained IRS examiners focus on aggressive international tax planning, including the abusive use of entities and structures established in foreign jurisdictions.  The goal is to ensure U.S. citizens and residents are accurately reporting their income and paying the correct tax.
Foreign Financial Accounts

In addition to reporting your worldwide income, you must also report on your U.S. tax return whether you have any foreign bank or investment accounts.  The Bank Secrecy Act requires you to file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) (FinCEN Form 114, previously Form TD F 90-22.1),

    You have financial interest in, signature authority, or other authority over one or more accounts in a foreign country, and
    The aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.










I doubt many people or business do that.


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Edited by Morel Guy (11/23/19 03:50 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26340592 - 11/23/19 03:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Quote:

dreamachine said:
are we really arguing whether or not the elite syphon their money to avoid taxation? lmfao; we know they all do; hell Trump admitted in 2006. (still voted for him, cuz Hillary seemed move evil to me)



Falcon claims it doesn't happen via suggestion



Let's take a step back because you've ran in so many circles you forgot where this started.

I said we should make the capital gains tax higher and more progressive.

Sugabearcrisp said this would cause people to invest overseas.

I said it doesn't matter where they invest, because the money is taxable regardless.

You're saying people could illegally not pay.  Of course I agree, but that has nothing to do with the original argument.  If people are criminals, they won't pay regardless of the rate.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26340594 - 11/23/19 03:51 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I said you have to receive it.  If it is sitting offshore it's arguably not taxable until you recieve it in the us.





The very first sentence above:

Quote:

Many United States (U.S.) citizens and resident aliens receive income from foreign sources. There have been recent reports about the interest of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in taxpayers with accounts in Liechtenstein. The interest of the IRS, however, extends beyond accounts in Liechtenstein to accounts anywhere in the world.




Ok, really out now.

Laterz


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340595 - 11/23/19 03:52 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Look at bitcoin as a current example.

The US cannot generally support the efforts to enforce that entirely.  Look at how much gets past customs.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340600 - 11/23/19 03:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Your argument is that criminals can dodge taxes.  No one is disagreeing.


--------------------
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: relic]
    #26340601 - 11/23/19 03:54 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I said you have to receive it.  If it is sitting offshore it's arguably not taxable until you recieve it in the us.





The very first sentence above:

Quote:

any United States (U.S.) citizens and resident aliens receive income from foreign sources. There have been recent reports about the interest of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in taxpayers with accounts in Liechtenstein. The interest of the IRS, however, extends beyond accounts in Liechtenstein to accounts anywhere in the world.




Ok, really out now.

Laterz




Yes arguably

We usually only hear of someone with foreign assets in conmected cases.  A divorce case, a other tax problem, drugs.  I do not recall exact details bit they found aome interesting accounts down south from a Russian hacking effort.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26340604 - 11/23/19 03:56 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Your argument is that criminals can dodge taxes.  No one is disagreeing.





Well ya sure argued about it.

Anyhow 10 grand can still be an offshore account.  But I don't think,the govt generally can know where to look other than your passport.

I'm sure lot's of elites get away with a ton of things.

Anyhow I am not going to be rich enough to do that and if I was I wouldn't need to hide it or invest out country.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26340615 - 11/23/19 04:01 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

when do you think we the people are going to remember we're on the same team and that both the democrats, the republicans, and all the politicians and elite in general are our real enemy?


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340619 - 11/23/19 04:03 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think that's our enemy.  I find it's mostly ignorance, which I do believe the Republicans are simply the most ignorant.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26340626 - 11/23/19 04:05 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Come on man... You really falling for that partisan divide and conquer shit? They're all on the same team. They all go to the same parties. They're actors that are playing WWE. It's professional wrestling. And we the people are paying for it.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340637 - 11/23/19 04:11 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So what is you plan and what is the end result?

We don't have much power nor options.  Most people just do not have those.

I find the best option is secrecy.  Just minding your own business should be the American way.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340664 - 11/23/19 04:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with that. People should stop spending so much energy on global/national/state issues and focus more on city and county issues and actually spend time improving their own communities; that said we need to reduce the power federal and state law has over individual counties/cities imo.

all that said I think the best thing people could do is to leave the cities, buy cheap land, and move towards self-sustainability. Then once they are self-sustainable or near-self sustainable they can focus their energy on improving their city/town, then when they are satisfied with their local they can put energy into their county; etc. I think too many people put their hope and faith in federal change; top down/trickle down change; both the left and the right do this; focusing on presidential candidates, senators, etc. While I do understand federal policies are important, I think individuals, the people, need to focus on local policies.

it's the old saying, you got to help yourself before you can help anyone else.

so long as the federal and state governments don't overstep their bounds (which they have long ago, and they continue to do so under both republican and democrat support); so I think the only energy the people should really put into federal and state government is to ensure that they do not infringe on city and county government.

but like I said (i'm kinda repeating myself now) I think individuals first need to focus on achieving as much self-sustainability for themselves and their family first; then they can use that to perhaps create their own business and then they can use that to help others in their community as well become independent and on and on; unfortunately most people are broke af, so for this to work families and friends would be wise to pool their resources; but that can be a lot harder said than done. especially for city folk; folks who love the city (except for the rich) will always be prisoners and slaves to the system without any hope of escape from debt and without any promise of becoming financially independent... imo


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine] * 1
    #26340671 - 11/23/19 04:31 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

*starts chanting*

Beeeerniie Beeeernie Beeeeernie!


We need to only vote on politicians who will get money out of politics.

Lobbyists are a plague. Wealthy intervening interests are an aberration. The peoples will MUST be done. If 51 percent of the people in america want the color Pink in starburst to be outlawed then BY GOD we will have NO MORE PINK STARBuRSTS!

DEMOCRACY!!!!


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Oldnameforgotten] * 1
    #26340677 - 11/23/19 04:35 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:nojustno:

nah son; voting for representation is not only outdated but is completely broken in today's system. We need to do away with representation and return to a individual democracy where everyone votes on the policies not the politicians.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340687 - 11/23/19 04:38 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

That sounds much like XUL.

We don't have land to support 300 million hobby farms.  Not everyone wants to live that lifestyle either.  I've done some goat farming and it's pretty darn difficult.

Yet yep, a small farm will survive a very large family through the worst of depressions.  My Great Grandpa, my mom's mom's Dad, did that and they always had plenty of food.  He also worked a job and did that.

I just don't think that the hippy dream is so easily accomplished.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340706 - 11/23/19 04:46 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with you. It won't be easy; and the majority of the population won't even try; but it is possible; here on the big island of Hawaii the land is pretty cheap and super arable; got 6 acres and a run down 2bd/1ba house (squatters got to it before we did) for $59K. albeit it's all jungle and it's gonna be hard to clear land for farming. Luckily there were already avocado and some fruit trees here when we got here. I planted some tomatoes and I've been harvesting them regularly.

I've been lazy and haven't really gone full board into planting, but I plan on doing so soon. lol

and when I really get serious there are chickens, and wild boar all over the place; had some wild chickens at my last place that I was renting at; got some fresh eggs from them; lol


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340716 - 11/23/19 04:50 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

That is a steal.

We paid 53k for my house and it's likely in a lot better shape than yours.  But it's only on less than an acre.

Plus side of being in town is I don't have a car.  I get good city services.

I do wish I had some land and could get growing.  Animals take up to much land to sustain them.  Put I could grow a lot of produce on 6 acres.

You are lucky you can grow avocados and coffee.  I'd poly-crop on that land.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340723 - 11/23/19 04:53 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

If you can raise enough food to feed your people, pay taxes, and fix up the house...that's golden.

Heirloom tomatoes can go for a lot and don't require much space to yield a large amount.  Plus your growing season is extensive.

It's much harder in Ohio to do something like that.  But the Amish do, at least some do.  Almost all have gardens.

Amish either do carpentry or they farm.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Offlinedreamachine

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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340727 - 11/23/19 04:56 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah man, Big Island of Hawaii is a secret place most people don't know about, and most who do are too afraid to move here because of the active volcano... lmao

animals don't take up that much land if you are just feeding yourself and your family; I mean on the six acres we got we could probably have a hundred or more chickens if we wanted; and multiple cows and goats and boars; but that might take a while for me to accomplish.

we need to have a car though; our property is miles down a single lane road that turns into a road that is essentially a river bed of rocks; lmao

Terence McKenna had a large property on this island somewhere. Spent his last years here; and his kids grew up here.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340729 - 11/23/19 04:59 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I'm speaking of growing the hay and grain for animals.  Animals consume a lot of grain and hay.  Most farmers grow their own animals feed.

I could raise chickens here but I'm not thrilled about cleaning those.  Plus neighbors could complain but I believe it's legal to have a few chickens and a goat.

There was some coyote for awhile.  That'd be an issue with chickens or goat.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340736 - 11/23/19 05:02 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I see. Here in Hawaii there's so much growth people more or less let their animals run loose on their property and don't even need to feed them. For the most part at least. I see some people give their animals extra food, but more to be nice then out of necessity it seems.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340745 - 11/23/19 05:05 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I don't really enjoy grass fed meat.  I'd hate to eat a goat just grass fed.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340779 - 11/23/19 05:19 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

lolz. that'd be the least of my problems with it; my issue would be morally just feeling bad about slaughtering my own animal; as far as eating it, I feel I could make anything taste good with enough butter. XD


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340784 - 11/23/19 05:22 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I'd go to a slaughtering house and pay money for it to be done.  Not that it's any 'better'.  It's less hands on.

I never learned how to carve one up.  I don't think a lot of hunters around here even do that.  Some do.  I've seen them go to the butcher with grocery bags of badly cut meat.  I'm not sure why, venison jerky or sticks or something.

You want the animal slaughtered right.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340794 - 11/23/19 05:25 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I suppose you're right. Though to be honest I'd probably bypass all that and just trade with someone local; produce for meat. lol

though fishing is real popular here and I do imagine I'm going to get into that; and that's going to be hard enough to do; killing poor little fishies and shit. lmao


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340800 - 11/23/19 05:27 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Eating fish is no problem for me.  I'd fish a lot in the pacific.  In-fact, having a boat to live on would be great.  If I just could get a dog to piss and shit off the boat or on the deck.


It'd take a pup to teach that to.  They'd get confused on land though.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340804 - 11/23/19 05:28 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You ever fish before?


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340811 - 11/23/19 05:33 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Yep.  Lake Erie and some smaller places.

I have a lot of fishing gear actually.  We stock the pond out at the family farm but I haven't been motivated. The bass are getting big so I might have to snag one of those.

The poles are all professional.  Don't even have a release button for the line.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26340830 - 11/23/19 05:40 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You ever feel bad for killing the fish? I imagine after a while you get numbed out about it, but it's still gotta be a little sad each time; hell I feel bad when I harvest my pot plants. lol


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340850 - 11/23/19 05:49 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I didn't feel too bad about goats.  Ate curly sue because she couldn't have good kids.  Sometimes I felt a little responsible.  But fact is the world will probably pressure me to put my dog down some day.

Negative reflection doesn't help much.

Fish only seem to suffer as they are starving for air.  I don't feel much of their suffering, plus Jesus ate fish.  So that makes it ok, right?

Fish seem to be the easiest source of 'meat' and no worries.  I worry more about over fishing and pollution, that the sources won't be available.

I think that red meat is simply very valuable and the market tends to raise a lot of not great meat.  People don't realize how valuable red meat is.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26340967 - 11/23/19 06:37 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dreamachine said:
You ever feel bad for killing the fish? I imagine after a while you get numbed out about it, but it's still gotta be a little sad each time; hell I feel bad when I harvest my pot plants. lol




I'm a hunter. Late 20s very non-chad type.

I enjoy the thrill of the hunt. I will eat hunted meat over grocery store meat every single time possible.

I reckon people who eat meat but dont have the stomach for killing their meat should stop eating meat.

If that makes any sense.



I can tell you this. After many many deer killed... everytime I kill one there is a good 5 minutes of "something big just happened here". It is never a non-nonchalant kill for a well-adjusted human being. I know I did something wrong but I have to overcome that emotional reaction and think about it logically. I'm going to survive off that 80 pounds of venison for a long time. 3 deer easily last my family a full year. And I give out a lot as well.



I started hunting out of economic strife and looked at it from the optimist perspective. "i get free meat and it even tastes better than beef!" I would say. It was true too.


At some point I reckon you need to put that sin of the kill on your soul if youre going to be a meat eater.


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26341042 - 11/23/19 07:14 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

word up; time will tell if I get to where you are in that regard


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26341044 - 11/23/19 07:18 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Capital gains is a bit tricky... Make it progressive and linked to income and investment dries up or leaves for more favorable climates.



That's like saying make income tax progressive and work will dry up.

Capital gains only taxes gains.  Anyone would rather take a gain taxed at 50% than no gain at all taxed at 0%.

Example:
$1,000,000 gained taxed at 50% = $500,000 pocketed
$0 gained taxed at 0% = $0 pocketed.

Would you rather have $500,000 or $0?




Yeah exactly. It makes no sense that people will stop investing if they have to pay 30% tax as opposed to 15.

Why do you pay more tax when you work for a living than sit by the pool for one?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: koods] * 1
    #26341162 - 11/23/19 08:13 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

benevolent job creators and shit


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26341682 - 11/24/19 05:07 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Okay ribbit, if I am an investor facing a doubling of the capital gains tax I will switch my investments to a foreign entity registered in a country that does not have this tax structure. Or I will switch to real estate investments that yield ordinary income and significant tax credits and deductions. 

As I mentioned above wife and I are high earners in prime earning years of our life, if we get a president Warren or Sanders she will stop working and we will buy rental properties which she will manage. Our tax burden will go down.

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
  Most farmers grow their own animals feed.





I see farms are something you know as little about as you know about taxes. The blue seal silos in my agricultural hometown aren't there next to the railroad tracks because most farmers grow their own feed.

You also don't bring your livestock to slaughter unless you're bringing it to auction. If you have a small heard which you are selectively culling you bring in a mobile slaughter house.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26341838 - 11/24/19 07:24 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

You don't know what you are talking about sugar bear.

So your town has some silos.  Big whoopie.  That's for farmers that sell grain.

Damn you are dense.

A farmer cannot afford to buy hundreds or thousands of tons of feed nor hay.  Farming is a touch and go operation, that is highly market sensitive.

Now in Texas they do have to import some hay.  Because it's too dry down there.  So yep farmers up here make a bundle shipping hay down south.

Small bales of hay cost $3 to $8 and sometimes more on a bad season.  Those aren't even close to big bales.  Big bales are up to 1,000 pounds.  That's just hay, grain is also very very expensive.

Ever see how much a cow eats?  You'd not stay in biz buying hay and grain.  Market price isn't that high for an animal.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


Edited by Morel Guy (11/24/19 07:38 AM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 2
    #26341876 - 11/24/19 08:00 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Cool story, bro.
I'm not sure why you think anyone gives a shit about whether or not your wife works.  Go ahead a quit when Bernie wins.  If all the sour grapes losers quit,  someone else will take their places.  The old "if you elect someone decent, rich people will blow up the economy" ruse isn't going to work this time, pal.  Rich folk will leave the country?  Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.  Investment capital will dry up?  That cash is getting used for buybacks anyway. 

Go ahead, seek your rents while you still can.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/housing-all/


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 2
    #26342076 - 11/24/19 10:12 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Okay ribbit, if I am an investor facing a doubling of the capital gains tax I will switch my investments to a foreign entity registered in a country that does not have this tax structure. Or I will switch to real estate investments that yield ordinary income and significant tax credits and deductions. 





So, are you going to do the criminal tax evasion bit, are you going to leave the US and renounce your citizenship, or are you going to willfully neuter your own income potential because you wanna take your ball and go home?

Because those are the three things you just proposed.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #26342240 - 11/24/19 11:30 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26342684 - 11/24/19 02:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

yall need to take some shrooms; have a group hug and relax; lmao


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: The Only Person Who Can Defeat Trump [Re: dreamachine]
    #26345693 - 11/25/19 09:57 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

N
Quote:

dreamachine said:
yall need to take some shrooms; have a group hug and relax; lmao



I agree!


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