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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26335727 - 11/21/19 10:57 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

the russians are adjusting

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: cannabinated]
    #26335736 - 11/21/19 11:04 AM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Lol, we're all "adjusting"


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26336109 - 11/21/19 02:40 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
None of this is going to bring peace anywhere.  It wasn't long ago that Ukraine was the same nation as Russia.  Slavic people are Slavic people and if history had been different, Russia would be part of Europe and the European Governmental system.

This tribal stuff goes way way back.  Thing with America is that we are so cross culturally bred that we don't even know what to think.  We feared the cold war stance a lot.

Propaganda does more to motivate bad issues than bring peace and harmony.




That’s plain wrong. Saying Ukraine used to be part of Russia is like saying India used to be a part of the UK. Google “Holodomor” for an example of Russia-Ukraine “relations”. To a Ukrainian, being called russian is the worst insult imaginable.
Plus, Russia isn’t populated by Slavic people...maybe 25% or so are slavic. You can google that as well.




You are part wrong. My friend J was born in Ukraine. She totally identifies as being Russian. She's Jewish and I don't know if that enters into it at all. She moved from Ukraine to Italy then Israel before Chicago. My old friend B from grad school is Ukrainian. His views are anti-Russia. I don't know what the breakdown is but there are sizable amounts of Ukrainian people on each side of the issue.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26336125 - 11/21/19 02:51 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

well all the dissenters and minorities were slaughtered anyway

population bias

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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26336127 - 11/21/19 02:51 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
None of this is going to bring peace anywhere.  It wasn't long ago that Ukraine was the same nation as Russia.  Slavic people are Slavic people and if history had been different, Russia would be part of Europe and the European Governmental system.

This tribal stuff goes way way back.  Thing with America is that we are so cross culturally bred that we don't even know what to think.  We feared the cold war stance a lot.

Propaganda does more to motivate bad issues than bring peace and harmony.




That’s plain wrong. Saying Ukraine used to be part of Russia is like saying India used to be a part of the UK. Google “Holodomor” for an example of Russia-Ukraine “relations”. To a Ukrainian, being called russian is the worst insult imaginable.
Plus, Russia isn’t populated by Slavic people...maybe 25% or so are slavic. You can google that as well.




You are part wrong. My friend J was born in Ukraine. She totally identifies as being Russian. She's Jewish and I don't know if that enters into it at all. She moved from Ukraine to Italy then Israel before Chicago. My old friend B from grad school is Ukrainian. His views are anti-Russia. I don't know what the breakdown is but there are sizable amounts of Ukrainian people on each side of the issue.



Friend 1 left Ukraine young, that’s all. I bet she doesn’t know what Holodomor was either.
I left Ukraine young myself, and couldn’t understand the animosity towards Russia....until I took a relevant history class. I still have friends (and more than 2 lol) and family in Ukraine, and none of them identify as Russian. I’m also Jewish, so no, that has nothing to do with it. Ukraine has a much larger Jewish community than Russia.
Your grad school buddy is “anti-Russian” because, well, he’s in grad school. As in not an uneducated.

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114] * 3
    #26336197 - 11/21/19 03:31 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

It is my understanding that the vast majority of Ukranians in the Crimea region are pro-Russia. Is this not correct? I also have a friend of a friend who is Ukrainian whose family and friends are pro-Russia. So is it really black and white?


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336221 - 11/21/19 03:43 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
None of this is going to bring peace anywhere.  It wasn't long ago that Ukraine was the same nation as Russia.  Slavic people are Slavic people and if history had been different, Russia would be part of Europe and the European Governmental system.

This tribal stuff goes way way back.  Thing with America is that we are so cross culturally bred that we don't even know what to think.  We feared the cold war stance a lot.

Propaganda does more to motivate bad issues than bring peace and harmony.




That’s plain wrong. Saying Ukraine used to be part of Russia is like saying India used to be a part of the UK. Google “Holodomor” for an example of Russia-Ukraine “relations”. To a Ukrainian, being called russian is the worst insult imaginable.
Plus, Russia isn’t populated by Slavic people...maybe 25% or so are slavic. You can google that as well.




That's accurate if you ignore everything prior to about 1900.

The Rus tribes spanned both modern Ukraine and Russia, as well as pretty much all of eastern Europe.




Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, is over 1500 years old. It was a major city in the year 550...what “tribes” are you talking about?

A bad decision by a Ukrainian Knyaz (ruler) led to Russian occupation of Ukraine in the late 900s. He requested Russian help to stop the endless Byzantine invasions, and got a Russian invasion instead.

No idea where you get your info, but a quick Google search can prove the above.




The Kievan Rus was the direct ancestor of the Duchy of Moscow and Russia more generally. Prior to that, it was ruled by the Varangians, and prior to that, it was ruled by the Turks.

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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26336227 - 11/21/19 03:45 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
It is my understanding that the vast majority of Ukranians in the Crimea region are pro-Russia. Is this not correct? I also have a friend of a friend who is Ukrainian whose family and friends are pro-Russia. So is it really black and white?



Not black and white at all. But what you’re suggesting is that there’s an evenly matched struggle going on in Ukraine. It’s not 50/50. More like 95/5.

Rural Crimea is mostly populated by Ukrainians. However, all the major cities are on the coast and were always populated by Russians because crimea has only been part of Ukraine for less than a century, and Russians never succeeded in modernizing it. There was literally no plumbing system or electricity before the peninsula joined Ukraine. As living conditions improved, people moved into the mainland areas.
There is also a large population of Native Crimeans (the Crimean Turks) who hate Russians for trying to exterminate them during Stalin’s reign. They were gathered and shipped to Siberian “work” camps just like Jews were shipped to German camps in WW2.

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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336231 - 11/21/19 03:47 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, a Kyivan knyaz (ruler) built and named Moscow. How is this contradictory to what I wrote?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336260 - 11/21/19 03:56 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
It is my understanding that the vast majority of Ukranians in the Crimea region are pro-Russia. Is this not correct? I also have a friend of a friend who is Ukrainian whose family and friends are pro-Russia. So is it really black and white?



Not black and white at all. But what you’re suggesting is that there’s an evenly matched struggle going on in Ukraine. It’s not 50/50. More like 95/5



He also asked about Crimea.  Crimea is vast majority pro-Russian, correct?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26336289 - 11/21/19 04:09 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
It is my understanding that the vast majority of Ukranians in the Crimea region are pro-Russia. Is this not correct? I also have a friend of a friend who is Ukrainian whose family and friends are pro-Russia. So is it really black and white?



Not black and white at all. But what you’re suggesting is that there’s an evenly matched struggle going on in Ukraine. It’s not 50/50. More like 95/5



He also asked about Crimea.  Crimea is vast majority pro-Russian, correct?




Errr I answered that pretty thoroughly

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336292 - 11/21/19 04:10 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Falcon does not care for strait answers that do not support his position, which is never clear.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336295 - 11/21/19 04:13 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Yes, a Kyivan knyaz (ruler) built and named Moscow. How is this contradictory to what I wrote?




Ukraine wasn't a thing back then. Neither was Russia.

They were both Rus tribes.

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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26336311 - 11/21/19 04:17 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Here is the one takeaway I am trying to supply:

The struggle in Ukraine is not between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian people, but rather between the Ukrainian people and the Russian government (the propaganda machine, security services, etc.)

The only Ukrainians who are pro-Russia are undereducated, misinformed and manipulated by Russia’s very active efforts to destabilize the country.

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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26336329 - 11/21/19 04:25 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
The only Ukrainians who are pro-Russia are undereducated, misinformed and manipulated by Russia’s very active efforts to destabilize the country.




So, to summarize, those that don't agree with you are all idiots and should be ashamed?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336333 - 11/21/19 04:29 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

No, you dodged the numbers for Crimea.  You just said "There is also a large population of Native Crimeans (the Crimean Turks) who hate Russians", but the actual percentage of Tatars in Crimea isn't that large.

I previously started a thread about Crimea here and covered my experience with the Tatars here.

You might want to read just those two posts and let me know if you disagree with anything based on your own experience.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: Kryptos]
    #26336334 - 11/21/19 04:29 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Yes, a Kyivan knyaz (ruler) built and named Moscow. How is this contradictory to what I wrote?




Ukraine wasn't a thing back then. Neither was Russia.

They were both Rus tribes.




Cmon man, I said “Kyiv” and “Moscow”. I never said Ukraine or Russia...

Kyiv was a city that grew into the Kyivan Rus. One of the major cities in Europe during the year 500 is not a fucking tribe in 800.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336339 - 11/21/19 04:30 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Here is the one takeaway I am trying to supply:

The struggle in Ukraine is not between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian people, but rather between the Ukrainian people and the Russian government (the propaganda machine, security services, etc.)

The only Ukrainians who are pro-Russia are undereducated, misinformed and manipulated by Russia’s very active efforts to destabilize the country.




Which is ENTIRELY to destabolize the west and the reach they/we have.  Which isn't stupid as the west (Germany) hurt the hell out of the Soviets.  As well as there are very serious and world endangering efforts by America political and military/intellignce people to destroy Russia.

There are people that seriously think WW3 would be revenge for the totally fucked up theory that the Soviets killed JFK.

Ever meet a US Marine that was RECON?  These are dense people that do not know how to trully secure world peace.  Their sole design is to start a war.

Then there are very simliar personalities in Russia or any other nation.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114]
    #26336341 - 11/21/19 04:30 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

anyone posting here with under 300 posts and claims theyre from russia should be banned:shrug:

its a situational thing

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OnlineKryptos
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Re: Impeachment Hearings Chat [Re: feldman114] * 2
    #26336344 - 11/21/19 04:31 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Morel Guy said:
None of this is going to bring peace anywhere.  It wasn't long ago that Ukraine was the same nation as Russia.  Slavic people are Slavic people and if history had been different, Russia would be part of Europe and the European Governmental system.

This tribal stuff goes way way back.  Thing with America is that we are so cross culturally bred that we don't even know what to think.  We feared the cold war stance a lot.

Propaganda does more to motivate bad issues than bring peace and harmony.




That’s plain wrong. Saying Ukraine used to be part of Russia is like saying India used to be a part of the UK. Google “Holodomor” for an example of Russia-Ukraine “relations”. To a Ukrainian, being called russian is the worst insult imaginable.
Plus, Russia isn’t populated by Slavic people...maybe 25% or so are slavic. You can google that as well.




Quote:

feldman114 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Yes, a Kyivan knyaz (ruler) built and named Moscow. How is this contradictory to what I wrote?




Ukraine wasn't a thing back then. Neither was Russia.

They were both Rus tribes.




Cmon man, I said “Kyiv” and “Moscow”. I never said Ukraine or Russia...

Kyiv was a city that grew into the Kyivan Rus. One of the major cities in Europe during the year 500 is not a fucking tribe in 800.




No, I'm pretty sure you said "Ukraine" and "Russia".

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