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Invisibletruekimbo2
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human centric belief systems.
    #2629762 - 05/03/04 12:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

hi there, just some thoughts of mine.

like this is meant as kind of a vauge complaint against those who hold thier spiritual philosophies to be very advanced, but since i can't think of any specifics i think i'll just have to let the complaint part go and just have it be something to think about.

almost all early cultures assumed that animals and even plants had consciousness/awareness/intelligence whatever you want to call it (or whatever combination there-of) that poeple usually assume makes humans unique.  in addition almost all of these cultures including many present cultures assume that there are spiritual invisible entities of equal or greater complexity than human beings, BUT COMPLETELY UNCONNECTED TO HUMANITY, except very generally sharing the same space.
i've noticed many poeple taking a human centric view of their spirituality, thinking along the lines of "i am an angel" "i am god" i am evolving" etc etc.  alot of stuff about entities from other dimensions being concerned with human welfare and about human evolution being very much in line with god.

seems to me that the human spiritual experiance is very limited considering the incredible scope of the universe, and taking very human spiritual experiances and saying they're the hieght of being seems oftly EGOTISTCAL te he.

the shamans of old didn't focus on humans, they didn't place humans at the center of the wheel of life.  they communicated and respected the intelligence in all things.

ugh, i don't think i communicated what i meant to imply at all.

oh well.  just here to make sure those who think they're hot shit get the intellectual beat down :smile:


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Edited by truekimbo2 (05/03/04 12:23 AM)


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2629821 - 05/03/04 12:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i think thats important to remember. That we are not the only things that are here, that there are other things experiencing this which we call existence as well. remembering that makes me feel much more connected with the rest of the world.

but i cannot without contradiction give some credit to the human centric view. Without it i would be fairly nothing.  Nothing wrong with a dose of humiliation, aye?  :cheers:


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InvisibleClean
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2629828 - 05/03/04 12:36 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i see what you're getting at...maybe lol.
maybe it's just our limited frame of reference as humans that prompts us to think of such spiritual experiences as the height of existence.
we've never been a rock or a tree or a camel or an ET lifeform, only ourselves.
now i want some lsd to think more about this :lol:


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OfflineLux
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2629847 - 05/03/04 12:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps you should point out the people you are speaking of to better make your case with them?

I understand what you're saying, but I do believe there may be some misunderstandings. This largely depends on who and of what you're talking about though.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: Lux]
    #2629855 - 05/03/04 12:43 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

like i said, i can't really think of any specific poeple. basically anyone who says they know a whole lot about enlightenment or spiritual evolution thats never shifted thier consciousness enough to not be human anymore and then communicate with other non-human consciousnesses (that ordinarily don't care or can't interact with humans) about the way they percieve the world.

edit: in other words, in my mind, if you're still considering yourself solely human, and solely progressing along the path of human knowledge, you probably should consider yourself a specialist and not the top of the spiritual knowledge chain.
AND HUMAN TYPE ALIENS DON"T COUNT te he.


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Edited by truekimbo2 (05/03/04 12:45 AM)


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2629868 - 05/03/04 12:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

do you think this has to be with other entities that can communicate... can they be entities like cats? or monkeys?


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2629909 - 05/03/04 12:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i'm assuming cats and monkies are intelligent, spiritual entities with alot on thier mind. so yes i'm going to say animals and plants count too. also rocks.

to further my idea a little bit is, in addition to your spirit, your mind and emotions can exsist completely independently of the human hardware and the reality perception that comes with it. progress solely along the lines of that hardware and reality perception is limited.

(although, to be perfectly honest, i think its the extremely rare person indeed who has the karma or mental setup to get any sort of benifit from doing that though. i am certainly not one of those poeple so i can understand why poeple would focus on the positive aspects of thier self imposed limitations :P )


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OfflineLux
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2629921 - 05/03/04 12:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I really don't see what it matters. If you see someone sending a message and see alot of ego instilled in it then cut through that uselessness and see if there's an underlying truth, try to see the essence of things. Anything other than that isn't worth our time.


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OfflineLux
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2629946 - 05/03/04 01:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

to further my idea a little bit is, in addition to your spirit, your mind and emotions can exsist completely independently of the human hardware and the reality perception that comes with it. progress solely along the lines of that hardware and reality perception is limited.




Absolutely. You would word it much differently than I would but the essence is there. Anyone can observe from outside of this 'hardware' as you put it though. I do not believe there are any special people, we are all very much alike, the only thing seperating us is that foreign element.


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Offlinecosmicchic
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2629968 - 05/03/04 01:09 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

True,

You sure are struggling to spit it out huh? :lol: I had to read your original post twice and it's funny how it read completely different to me the second time. Made me realize I should read everything twice before I respond. :lol:

It sounds like you are trying to say that some people are yet coming from an "earth being the center of the Universe" perspective with a view that human existance is as profound as it gets "spiritually speaking"?

Is that it?

If so, I think it all goes back to things being relative to the one describing or judging the experience. Depends on what something is being compared to and not everyone has the same experiences to use for comparison.

Does this quote apply?

" We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, but rather we are spiritual beings having a human experience"

If that doesn't resonate with your implied intent, it almost could be read 2 ways, I would suggest reading the post I did called 'the Brilliance of You" an inaugural speach by Nelson Mandella. He talks about how people are afraid to shine the brilliance of the glory within and of those who shrivel and shrink to make the insecure feel comfortable. He says that we did not come here to shrivel but rather to burst open and shine.
For anyone doing that, can it not be simply that having nothing to do with the EGO, but rather having everything to do with feeling overwhelmed by the expanse of Light?

I was just trying to cover it from the different ways i read it to sound. Maybe I am waaaaaaaaaay off from what you meant to say! :lol:

Love,
Cindy


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: cosmicchic]
    #2630000 - 05/03/04 01:15 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

one of my assumptions in this post, based on various mythologies/personal experiance, is that there are humans still living on the planet, who are no longer human, and who no longer share the human reality.

my intention was to remind poeple that since its not neccassary, diving deeply into the human experiance and relating all experiance to the basic understanding that you're a human in a human world doing human things could perhaps be the ultimate deception of the ego. the deception that you are somehow tied to your humanity.


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OfflineLux
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2630016 - 05/03/04 01:18 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Assuming by human you mean that foreign element which has been instilled in us, yes I can definetly agree with you.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: Lux]
    #2630051 - 05/03/04 01:25 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i just thought of an example.  for those of you who are familar with very high doses of dxm, you know that tis very possible to be in this reality, and yet not at all related to anything human :smile:

a poor example, but perhaps that'll help explain what i mean by not human anymore.  (and of course i know that dxm is differnt for everyone.  alot of my experiances were experiancing realities too abstract to explain, thats kind of the point i was getting at).


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Offlinecosmicchic
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2630100 - 05/03/04 01:36 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That cleared it up! I read you correctly the second time! Yes, I totally agree. Oh Boy, if people who knew what a tight squeeze it is for spirit to experience the full of itself in the human form, they'd know why there is a lot of emphasis in the spiritual community to get it to house more light for comfort.

To think some believe the spiritual consciousness is limited to just the 5, physical, perceptual, senses of the human being is quite restrictive indeed! And I would agree that it is the Ego fighting to keep such a limited belief to maintain control of the human experiences versus giving the wheel up over to spirit.

The Ego says "I want control over you so I can feel Great and superior to all things. Spirit is there saying "Allow me to guide you and I will show you the greatness of ALL that is equal to you.

This was fun to play with!

love,
cindy


Edited by cosmicchic (05/03/04 01:39 AM)


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OfflineLux
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2630139 - 05/03/04 01:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Oh I definitely understand what you've been saying, I was just simply saying that people's comments should not be ignored because they are covered with ego, there still may be some truth underneath it.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: Lux]
    #2630164 - 05/03/04 01:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

lux, not ignored just argued with  :wink:


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OfflineLux
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2630176 - 05/03/04 01:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Haha, who said I was accusing you of anything?


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OfflineParabolaChair
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: Lux]
    #2630553 - 05/03/04 03:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I know what you are saying. I agree with you man. With the vastness that exists around us, it seems very egotistical to posit ourselves and our own mental conditions and ideas as being absolute, somehow taking these notions that were conceived in our heads, and putting them as absolutes on the continium of existence.

This is what the teachings of the Tao, Siddhartha and the mushroom are all pointing us towards, through ourselves. It is also what i was trying to explain in my post on Language, logic and human evolution. The way we experience the world is defined by how we perceive the world which is defined by how we describe the world to ourselves, which we do through language, which is defined by our society and culture. When you stop and listen to the river, experience nature without the constraints and mechanims that we have infringed on it, you realize that this thing that is natural, is real in its context, and to try to make any definition of it, seems like a silly abstraction.


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Offlinevalour
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: ParabolaChair]
    #2630953 - 05/03/04 09:40 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

But we live as limited, perceiving beings, so the "silly abstraction" is how we interact with the world.


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I didn't sell out-
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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: human centric belief systems. [Re: valour]
    #2631903 - 05/03/04 03:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

but we're not limited, thats self imposed to keep things safe and for some sort of undefined yet tangible human purpose that i have very mixed feelings about.


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