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Offlinethirtygoats
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[Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized.
    #26291524 - 11/01/19 09:32 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

https://www.thesun.ie/news/4721924/fentanyl-stash-that-could-have-killed-everybody-in-ohio-uncovered-as-cops-compare-it-to-a-weapon-of-mass-destruction/

"A MASSIVE stash of deadly opioid fentanyl — enough to kill more than 11 million people — has been seized by cops.

The huge seizure was described as "a weapon of mass destruction" by investigators in Ohio as three men were charged trafficking the highly addictive drug.

Special Agent Vance Callender said the 40lbs was “enough to kill the entire population" of the northern US state — "many times over".

Ohio has a population of about 11.7 million.

Acting special agent Joseph M Deters of the FBI's Cincinnati Division, said: "This multi-million dollar fentanyl seizure clearly shows the enormity of the opioid problem in this area.”

The state of Ohio has been one of the worst affected states by America’s growing opioid and fentanyl epidemics, with at least ten users dying every 26 hours last month alone.

Shamar Davis, 31, Anthony Franklin, 30, and Grady Jackson, 37, were arrested in connection with the best and charged with intent to distribute more than 400 grams of fentanyl and a felon in possession of a firearm, according to the Montgomery County Sheriff’s office. "


:mygoditsfullofstars:

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,562
Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: thirtygoats] * 3
    #26291671 - 11/01/19 10:32 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Not to say that this is always the case, but often(I'd venture to say more often than not) when you hear about these seizures with "enough fentanyl to kill the entire country" it has already been cut down into, if not useable by opioid naive people, much less dangerous product that can be handled with less care and isn't going to kill hundreds of people with high tolerances after leaving hot spots the next time it is cut by those lower in the supply chain who have neither the skill, care, nor equipment to properly mix anything that powerful.

To put it succinctly, every time there is a fentanyl seizure law enforcement acts as if it is pure and forwards such information to the media in order to produce better propaganda.

Notice how the purity of "fentanyl powder" is NEVER discussed or mentioned in such articles or in any later propaganda...despite "high purity meth" being touted at every possible opportunity.

So they find 40lbs of powder, which tests positive for fent, but it might be 90+% inactive filler...and they not only purposely fail to share that information...but they purposely fail to discover it in the first place, in their world everyone is better off if we just assume all fent seizures are 100% fent...especially prosecutors.

-------

Just look at the rest of the stash....a few lbs of meth, a lb of heroin, and only $30,000.

...this just clearly just a mid-to-low level stash house and yet has enough fentanyl to produce, after being turned into a useable product, equivalent of MANY HUNDREDS if not a thousand lbs of heroin??? How was these even going to be distributed?

Even 400 grams of fent would be enough to produce ~50lbs of a pure heroin strength product, far more than 100 lbs of a street strength product...yet the stash house only has $30,000 in it? How much do you think the undercover was paying for his ~50lbs of pure product equivalent???

Where do you think a bunch of black guys are getting PURE fentanyl from? Considering pure fentanyl, at those amounts, is singularly being sourced from China or produced in Cartel funded labs and shipped in by Mexican cartels. How much direct cartel link do you think the guys in those pictures have? LOL.

---------------

It's much more likely the fent had previously been cut to put that weight much more in line with the rest of the stash.

Or even this operation was much closer to what I have personally witnessed as a long time but now recovered heroin addict(let's just say I won't incriminate myself further than that), especially among AA heroin dealers, the fent powder was already cut into something fairly weak and it is being used to cut fairly pure heroin...fent lacks an edge found in classical opiates and is an undesirable product on the street if not mixed with enough heroin to balance it out, and often the fent powder is itself being treated purely as "cut" at this point.

They will mix a few grams of heroin with heaping scoop of fent powder along with another inactive cut they provide themselves to produce what they will then sell as a useable product(although it will sometimes get stepped on again on its way to a user).

The batches that often end up being killers are the ones where the mixer isn't using a third agent, generally out of laziness and ignorance.

What happens is the low level distributor receives an OZ or few of strong heroin along with a giant bag of "cut"(such as one of those foil containers) and the "cut" is the weak fent powder, which they will then proceed to cut the heroin with themselves before selling it to street level distributors(who then sell it to dealers).

It's the stupid ones who don't really grasp the situation, and don't understand what they are dealing with, who can't understand why the need to "cut the cut" who end up killing people...

This is generally when it gets re-rocked or turned into a scramble like product...the third(or more) ingredients used at this point may also help facilitate this process.

They already view the cut as free as it gets delivered along with the heroin, and just know "people think their shit is fire" so they can neither see the necessity nor financial advantage of going through the proper lengths of obtaining and using a third inactive ingredient OR they are expecting(without telling them to) the people below them to step on it again.

This is a common practice I have witnessed in person, and let me tell you the people running the show at this point are dumb and ignorant and couldn't even spell fentanyl and half the time don't even understand that its in the cut they are using...they are just following instructions.

Edited by Holybullshit (11/01/19 11:54 AM)

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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26292268 - 11/01/19 02:50 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

These type of articles are not usually written by people that have a good grasp on drugs. Hence the gaps of information seen throughout.

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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
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Loc: Utah
Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #26292320 - 11/01/19 03:11 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Just so we're clear, 40 POUNDS of pure fentanyl is a massive amount. Assuming you're taking 100 micrograms, which I guess is how much the average patch dispenses in an hour (and from what I hear those patches are fucking strong), that's around 181,437,000 hits.

181 million hits. This is no small time guy. He had 40 pounds of fentanyl.


And also, fuck fentanyl.

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InvisibleSigSaur99
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Registered: 10/08/19
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Loc: Moscow, Russia
Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26292369 - 11/01/19 03:41 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Good, seizing fentanyl is what cops are here for. =)
Really happy to read this.

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Offlinestzacrack
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26292420 - 11/01/19 04:15 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Not to say that this is always the case, but often(I'd venture to say more often than not) when you hear about these seizures with "enough fentanyl to kill the entire country" it has already been cut down into, if not useable by opioid naive people, much less dangerous product that can be handled with less care and isn't going to kill hundreds of people with high tolerances after leaving hot spots the next time it is cut by those lower in the supply chain who have neither the skill, care, nor equipment to properly mix anything that powerful.

To put it succinctly, every time there is a fentanyl seizure law enforcement acts as if it is pure and forwards such information to the media in order to produce better propaganda.

Notice how the purity of "fentanyl powder" is NEVER discussed or mentioned in such articles or in any later propaganda...despite "high purity meth" being touted at every possible opportunity.

So they find 40lbs of powder, which tests positive for fent, but it might be 90+% inactive filler...and they not only purposely fail to share that information...but they purposely fail to discover it in the first place, in their world everyone is better off if we just assume all fent seizures are 100% fent...especially prosecutors.

-------

Just look at the rest of the stash....a few lbs of meth, a lb of heroin, and only $30,000.

...this just clearly just a mid-to-low level stash house and yet has enough fentanyl to produce, after being turned into a useable product, equivalent of MANY HUNDREDS if not a thousand lbs of heroin??? How was these even going to be distributed?

Even 400 grams of fent would be enough to produce ~50lbs of a pure heroin strength product, far more than 100 lbs of a street strength product...yet the stash house only has $30,000 in it? How much do you think the undercover was paying for his ~50lbs of pure product equivalent???

Where do you think a bunch of black guys are getting PURE fentanyl from? Considering pure fentanyl, at those amounts, is singularly being sourced from China or produced in Cartel funded labs and shipped in by Mexican cartels. How much direct cartel link do you think the guys in those pictures have? LOL.

---------------

It's much more likely the fent had previously been cut to put that weight much more in line with the rest of the stash.

Or even this operation was much closer to what I have personally witnessed as a long time but now recovered heroin addict(let's just say I won't incriminate myself further than that), especially among AA heroin dealers, the fent powder was already cut into something fairly weak and it is being used to cut fairly pure heroin...fent lacks an edge found in classical opiates and is an undesirable product on the street if not mixed with enough heroin to balance it out, and often the fent powder is itself being treated purely as "cut" at this point.

They will mix a few grams of heroin with heaping scoop of fent powder along with another inactive cut they provide themselves to produce what they will then sell as a useable product(although it will sometimes get stepped on again on its way to a user).

The batches that often end up being killers are the ones where the mixer isn't using a third agent, generally out of laziness and ignorance.

What happens is the low level distributor receives an OZ or few of strong heroin along with a giant bag of "cut"(such as one of those foil containers) and the "cut" is the weak fent powder, which they will then proceed to cut the heroin with themselves before selling it to street level distributors(who then sell it to dealers).

It's the stupid ones who don't really grasp the situation, and don't understand what they are dealing with, who can't understand why the need to "cut the cut" who end up killing people...

This is generally when it gets re-rocked or turned into a scramble like product...the third(or more) ingredients used at this point may also help facilitate this process.

They already view the cut as free as it gets delivered along with the heroin, and just know "people think their shit is fire" so they can neither see the necessity nor financial advantage of going through the proper lengths of obtaining and using a third inactive ingredient OR they are expecting(without telling them to) the people below them to step on it again.

This is a common practice I have witnessed in person, and let me tell you the people running the show at this point are dumb and ignorant and couldn't even spell fentanyl and half the time don't even understand that its in the cut they are using...they are just following instructions.




This guy gets the streets

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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Holybullshit] * 1
    #26292538 - 11/01/19 04:55 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Not to say that this is always the case, but often(I'd venture to say more often than not) when you hear about these seizures with "enough fentanyl to kill the entire country" it has already been cut down into, if not useable by opioid naive people, much less dangerous product that can be handled with less care and isn't going to kill hundreds of people with high tolerances after leaving hot spots the next time it is cut by those lower in the supply chain who have neither the skill, care, nor equipment to properly mix anything that powerful.

To put it succinctly, every time there is a fentanyl seizure law enforcement acts as if it is pure and forwards such information to the media in order to produce better propaganda.







You pulled that out of your ass 100%.  You might be right.  You might be wrong.  Let's hope you're right.


--------------------
:goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat:  I dropped a cheesy pop dance track "Be With Me, Baby": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wezFSNS7JDI :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat: :goat:

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 2
    #26292593 - 11/01/19 05:15 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Id say good riddance, also it all depends: is this fentanyl citrate? Is it carfent? Is it mixed with dope? Would someone so high up on the ladder have been so easily caught? It could certainly be for use as is, or maybe not. Either way, id say i have no problem with people seizing fentanyl/fentalogues just leave the rx shit people actually need alone, as well as pure weaker opioids (heroin, morphine, also kratom). The lack of these opis are the reason people start doing fent anyway if its not rx for pain


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Fractal420]
    #26292849 - 11/01/19 07:39 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

People hustle anything they can anyway they can.  For some years now I've seen the beauty of a legal drug diet.  Even some of those are pretty unexpected.  Rhodolia had some visionary/psychotic effects for me and inpart due to the increasing lack of sleep via it's stimulation.  The so called soviet phyto secret was a bit of a potent one mysteriously.

Once you really get a hook into identifying with a drug it is a big deal.  We won't all be buddha and not have attachments.  It is a public health crisis and I know very well why people fear the brain washing influence of treatment.  Being forced to identify with addiction is lower than most users will be willing.  Most of have seen someone far far far weaker at their addiction.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26293403 - 11/02/19 05:44 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Just so we're clear, 40 POUNDS of pure fentanyl is a massive amount. Assuming you're taking 100 micrograms, which I guess is how much the average patch dispenses in an hour (and from what I hear those patches are fucking strong), that's around 181,437,000 hits.

181 million hits. This is no small time guy. He had 40 pounds of fentanyl.


And also, fuck fentanyl.




That's part of the foundation of my thesis...the stash house only had a couple pounds of meth and heroin and just $30,000...yet they have hundreds of millions of dollars worth of fentanyl??? Just 400 grams(what they sold to the undercover) is worth FAR, FAR more than $30,000 if pure.

Which leads me to believe its not pure fentanyl, but it makes a better bust for the cops, a better case for the prosecutors, and a better headline for the media(propaganda)...so of course they ALWAYS play it off like its pure every single time they find a power containing fentanyl...no matter how much inactive matter is actually there, even if they find a powder which is only 1% fentanyl they will always say its pure fentanyl.

Edited by Holybullshit (11/02/19 05:46 AM)

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Fractal420] * 2
    #26293415 - 11/02/19 05:59 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
The lack of these opis are the reason people start doing fent anyway if its not rx for pain





This is exactly right, if you look at data concerning opiate prescriptions written and heroin addiction over the past 10 years...they are almost exactly inverse of each other.

It was the crackdown on prescription opiates that fueled the heroin epidemic.

Except the heroin supply chain couldn't keep up, after all growing and harvesting poppies is a LOT of work and its not so easy to just ramp up production...in fact if poppies weren't grown by some of the absolute poorest people on the world heroin would be far too expensive for use as a street drug, the system only works because poppy farmers in places like Afghanistan are compensated so little for their massive amount of work which requires a lot of labor and land.

...so Cartels were pushed to find another way to keep up with demand, and fent from China was the answer, also producing morphinan opiates synthetically is not feasible either economically or just plain possible due to the skill and equipment involved, fentanyl a relatively easy synth, not meth easy, but easy enough and doesn't require a whole bunch of special equipment so they've also been able to set up labs of their own(and there have been reports which point to Cartels playing around with super potent fent analogues, but I think for them handling it and finding a way for it to reach the user as a useable product has been a barrier.

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OfflineCrispy224
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: SigSaur99] * 1
    #26293654 - 11/02/19 08:31 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SigSaur99 said:
Good, seizing fentanyl is what cops are here for. =)
Really happy to read this.



Law enforcement is one of the reasons there are so many fentanyl deaths. Their enforcement of prohibition is what artificially inflates prices and causes people to cut heroin with fentanyl in the first place. So giving them a pat on the back for removing a small amount isn't going to change anything. Drugs need to be legalized and treated like alcohol. Only then will deaths fall, only then will people who need help but might be scared or ashamed step forward to get help, only then will people not be given felony charges that disqualify them from anything but minimum wage jobs that make it impossible to provide for a family.


--------------------
Matsesherbs.com is a SCAM site. Do not send them any money!!!!

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26293766 - 11/02/19 09:38 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
People hustle anything they can anyway they can.  For some years now I've seen the beauty of a legal drug diet.  Even some of those are pretty unexpected.  Rhodolia had some visionary/psychotic effects for me and inpart due to the increasing lack of sleep via it's stimulation.  The so called soviet phyto secret was a bit of a potent one mysteriously.

Once you really get a hook into identifying with a drug it is a big deal.  We won't all be buddha and not have attachments.  It is a public health crisis and I know very well why people fear the brain washing influence of treatment.  Being forced to identify with addiction is lower than most users will be willing.  Most of have seen someone far far far weaker at their addiction.





Addictive behavior is not the same as the behavior of taking a medicine (even say a benzo or barb) unless youre abusing it.

Sometimes you have to take a medication, side effects and all, to improve your life. Sometimes you have no choice but to grow dependent, and its hard to deal with in many cases, especially with fascist pharmacies rules. Its not all "addiction" though, most people just want relief which usually will not get you high (referring to just any pharm, but opis too stop getting you high unless you increase the dose, and even then the high itself is nowhere near as good as it was). Many people at some point in their life need help dealing with either mental health issues or perhaps even more serious things.

And people on here are quick to say "take mushrooms, smoke weed/dab, use kratom, stay away from pharma" but this is also kind of a boycott. I hate the pharm industry in general but they are the primary source of alot of important chems that go way past the whole weed/shrooms thing


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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OfflineGlockshooter
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Fractal420] * 1
    #26295612 - 11/03/19 06:46 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

All drugs should be legal.  If you want to do meth, fentanyl, smoke weed, drink booze, huff paint, bang your head against a brick wall, change your gender, tattoo your face and penis, get fake tits or stuff yourself with pizza and cake until you're 450 lbs that is your right to do so.  I may not condone it but that is your right and nobody can take that away from you.

Edited by Glockshooter (11/04/19 08:24 PM)

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Fractal420] * 1
    #26296249 - 11/03/19 12:48 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
Addictive behavior is not the same as the behavior of taking a medicine (even say a benzo or barb) unless youre abusing it.

Sometimes you have to take a medication, side effects and all, to improve your life. Sometimes you have no choice but to grow dependent, and its hard to deal with in many cases, especially with fascist pharmacies rules. Its not all "addiction" though, most people just want relief which usually will not get you high (referring to just any pharm, but opis too stop getting you high unless you increase the dose, and even then the high itself is nowhere near as good as it was). Many people at some point in their life need help dealing with either mental health issues or perhaps even more serious things.

And people on here are quick to say "take mushrooms, smoke weed/dab, use kratom, stay away from pharma" but this is also kind of a boycott. I hate the pharm industry in general but they are the primary source of alot of important chems that go way past the whole weed/shrooms thing




People have a lot of trouble understanding the difference between addiction and dependence...after all even the medical community is just now coming to officially recognize the difference when treating drug users, and defining clear differences between the two in medical literature.

In my experience opiates were never really all that "addictive" compared to drugs like cocaine or meth, it's not that they caused compulsive dosing and cravings took a while to develop...the thing is, is that opiates are so easy to take all the time day in and out.

You can't do that with other drugs, people will notice, your body will fall apart. And it's not even so much the euphoria opiates bring, it's that they silence everything negative inside of you.

And then you find yourself dependent without even realizing it.

After that you can not function, not even for a day in an even slightly demanding capacity such as going into work, without using. That's why opiate addicts will do anything to "get their fix"...it's not a compulsion like a cocaine/meth addict, it's to quench withdrawals.

Don't get me wrong, addiction also persists alongside the dependence...that's what prevents people from wanting to get help. That's what makes them go back even after getting clean.

But it's a far different animal than addiction alone, and it's not solely(or even primarily) compulsion which drives an opiate addict to find their next dose...and makes it a far harder proposition to go without even for a short time and creates an extra wall(a high one) between the addict and treatment/sobriety.

Addiction and the compulsion it brings shares a lot of similarities with the urge for one to eat and drink.

The drive that dependence brings is more in line with pain avoidance or survival instinct...except the pain it brings lasts for days and it creates logistical issues such as the ability to go to work, or to meet social demands.

Edited by Holybullshit (11/03/19 01:00 PM)

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OfflinesetarcoS
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Holybullshit] * 1
    #26296792 - 11/03/19 05:06 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

11 million, unbelievable. It was described as "chemical warfare" by an outlet I read.

Wasn't there a bust this year coming over the border big enough to kill 43 million?


--------------------
All comments are for entertainment or legal research purposes only


"Nothing can be done, except bit by bit"

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: setarcoS]
    #26297541 - 11/04/19 04:26 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Opioids do usually start off not so noticeable, eventually will lead to increased tolerance which means either increase dose (and amount of $, since you cant just increase your script every time) and everytime you do lose some of the high even with 2x as much of the opi. I agree that eventually you wouldnt be able to keep it up if it were just self medication.

The difference between benzos and opioids is tolerance to the high may increase (even to the point of having to take pretty crazy doses to get "high" but one doesnt need benzos to get them high - just to stop panic, and that keeps on working, as well as making people sleepy when it needs to). So basically IMO benzos are unavoidable for some people (gad/panic disorder/ptsd) and the high doesnt really matter.

If youre using truly recreational drugs on a regular basis, like, ghb for sedatives (to detox, you cant even just use one drug apparently to cover the withdrawal), alcohol too really, or ketamine, whatever, yes, eventually that will take its toll. Even worse is the regular use of things like mdma IMO (these should be blue moon type things).  I also see it happening to coke heads, tho i see people who can maintain their adderall use taking it also for years and years with little issue (according to research being on ADHD stims actually decreases the chance of drug addictions in life- kinda makes sense actually cause for many people its fill a void)

I think that people use drugs differently when they are "indicated" (prescribed) for daily use vs drugs that everyone knows are recreational. That is, doing K every morning and evening from a black market source will prolly eventually cause problems, but its def not just ketamine. All drugs take their toll differently when theyre abused, theyre also not made equal.

I guess if weed cured everything, thatd be a good scenario. Cause thats the only drug i can think of that truly seems to be mostly safe after millenia of use


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


Edited by Fractal420 (11/04/19 11:01 AM)

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OfflineFailboat
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Fractal420]
    #26298734 - 11/04/19 03:33 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

7g of Ketamine a day will really affect your body and social life heavily. K-pains are no fun.

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Fractal420]
    #26298907 - 11/04/19 04:47 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, benzos and opis are a lot alike as far as dependence and usage pattern.

And if you don't get too crazy with benzos you can go under the radar with them too, and even if you do go too heavy people will notice and just try to ignore it. It's really easy to enable benzo use since they aren't viewed the same way as opis or stims by the general public.

Biggest difference for people dependent on each is the cost...fueling an opi addiction takes a huge amount of income, you can get benzos(especially RCs) fairly cheap...that's a blessing and a curse because it lets you get in REALLY deep and go for so long without hitting rock bottom. With opis the cost kind of controls your use and generally you can keep the show going for so long before everything falls apart.

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Registered: 10/23/19
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Re: [Ohio] Enough fentanyl to kill 11 million people seized. [Re: Holybullshit]
    #26298938 - 11/04/19 04:58 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

let those fuckers burn

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