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OfflineIce9
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #28555760 - 11/25/23 07:57 AM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Meh, presidents "generally speaking" have a lot less power than we give them credit for. A good example is Trump, who would have liked to stay in office after he lost but was unable.  A doddering president is less a risk than a president who has surrounded himself with followers willing to pull the levers of power at his sole discretion.  Bureaucratic inertia is a hell of a thing.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #28555793 - 11/25/23 08:29 AM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Biden is controllable at his current cognitive level, and probably would be after further decline for a few years. That's the only encouraging thing I can think of, other than running against Trump.

If they are the nominees, the situation is bad. If a recession hits, the centre can not hold.




If those two are the nominees, I think enough people will lose faith in the system, that a third party may actually rise up. Who knows, though. The state of American politics is abysmal.


--------------------
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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28556356 - 11/25/23 06:09 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

I don't even know if that can happen at this point.  More likely people will just abstain rather than "waste a vote" or whatever.  People fundamentally dislike the idea of losing.  It's psychologically easier to opt out than lose.  Maybe it's possible still to gradually co-opt an existing party the way the tea partiers have been doing to the Republicans.  Bernie kinda tried to get something like that going but it hasn't worked that well yet.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28556361 - 11/25/23 06:12 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Two worst choices in my lifetime. I almost routed for Nicky Halley but it almost caused me to relapse.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (11/25/23 06:12 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #28556367 - 11/25/23 06:14 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Her plan to require gov't ID to be traced by all websites would definitely get me off the shroomery. And probably the internet.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28556374 - 11/25/23 06:18 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

I didnt know that was apart of her "America one privacy platform" or something like that. Unfortunately, some intelligence alphabet agency probably already does things like this with or without ID.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28556401 - 11/25/23 06:45 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Oh, absolutely. But once it becomes a government run database, then it becomes easier to access. NSA can pull all my shit together and hide it in some databank in Utah. That's fine, if they're pulling everybody. They probably don't actually care about most of the data, they just have it if you do some dumb shit.

But having it be front and center, and possibly run out of the presidential cabinet? That's a lot more iffy, especially with the "ideological alignment" that her party think tanks seems to be professing lately.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28556404 - 11/25/23 06:48 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

People have been saying that for years. So far, none of this secret data has shown up in criminal prosecutions.  Maybe they're waiting for just the right moment.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil]
    #28556411 - 11/25/23 06:58 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

That new avatar Enlil.
:fingerpistol:


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil]
    #28556427 - 11/25/23 07:18 PM (2 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
People have been saying that for years. So far, none of this secret data has shown up in criminal prosecutions.  Maybe they're waiting for just the right moment.




I've heard tales of DEA handing local PD data and telling them to "work backwards and figure out a way to not use this data to make your bust".

But yes, this is the point otherwise. Big 'ol databases in the desert worry me a lot less than big databases in the oval office.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28556732 - 11/26/23 05:41 AM (2 months, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I don't even know if that can happen at this point.  More likely people will just abstain rather than "waste a vote" or whatever.  People fundamentally dislike the idea of losing.  It's psychologically easier to opt out than lose.  Maybe it's possible still to gradually co-opt an existing party the way the tea partiers have been doing to the Republicans.  Bernie kinda tried to get something like that going but it hasn't worked that well yet.




I don't think many people will abstain, except evangelicals offended by Trump saying abortion restriction is bad for GOP, (which in a moment of lucidity he realized, after stacking the Court and causing it).

If we're stuck with these two from the party system, I see two scenarios. Most likely the Dems and GOP get all the electoral votes. Joe would probably win anyway, but will get extra help from conservative anti-Trumpers, throwing money and public support to anybody but Trump, which apparently means Joe.

Although much less likely, the exceptional situation with both candidates declining in appeal, presents an opportunity for real 3rd party impact which means getting electoral votes. RFK JR wont do it even if his 20% polling holds. This so called new middle party has a fit with American mindset especially now, but it's founders are Andrew Yang and Christine Todd Whitman, who lack sufficient appeal. Compared to anybody else on the radar screen Joe Manchin might have the right stuff. He hasn't announced but the media assumes he's running. I think he's waiting to see if Biden shows enough vulnerability for a primary challenge. If not, he'll run 3rd party, probably taking over leadership of that middle party (if they have enough organizational assets to make it worthwhile), or will start from scratch if enough funding shows up. Manchin is a walking definition of centrism taking some from this side and some from the other but not pushing change. He has establishment credentials, executive looks, and is not crazy or senile. He won't win as 3rd party, but would win some states, and probably create some permanence to an alternative party with more than fringe chances. He's not the 3rd party we were looking for, which is exactly why he could make some impact. 

If Biden kicks Trump's ass, Manchin or anybody else wont get enough electoral votes to make a difference. But if the vote is close, it could result in no majority and thrown to the House of Representatives. Unlikely but could happen with two unappealing party choices, who both probably get worse and in the next year. If the economy tanks Biden will look as bad as Trump, and the House starts looking better and better.

I don't think the slim GOP majority in the House would name Trump, but it would require a hell of a compromise deal with the small group of hold out Republicans and the Dems who would also probably have to get their little left wing on board.

Doesn't sound so good, but it depends on the alternatives.


--------------------
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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28556946 - 11/26/23 09:30 AM (2 months, 11 hours ago)

Anything that isn't a clear electoral victory for Biden will go to Trump. Keep in mind that the no majority 'House vote' is actually a state legislature vote out of 50 states.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28557002 - 11/26/23 10:12 AM (2 months, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Anything that isn't a clear electoral victory for Biden will go to Trump. Keep in mind that the no majority 'House vote' is actually a state legislature vote out of 50 states.




My scenario was based on Manchin or somebody winning electoral votes IF Trump vs Bidem is close and  nobody gets 270. It goes to the House of Representatives and their state delegations. Won't bet on it, but not convinced State delegations in U.S. House is made up of state legislatures. The delegations are a small group. The vote takes place in the U.S. House chambers.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28557052 - 11/26/23 11:02 AM (2 months, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Anything that isn't a clear electoral victory for Biden will go to Trump. Keep in mind that the no majority 'House vote' is actually a state legislature vote out of 50 states.




My scenario was based on Manchin or somebody winning electoral votes IF Trump vs Bidem is close and  nobody gets 270. It goes to the House of Representatives and their state delegations. Won't bet on it, but not convinced State delegations in U.S. House is made up of state legislatures. The delegations are a small group. The vote takes place in the U.S. House chambers.




Which then leads to a 28 (+3) Trump and 19 (+3) Biden vote, and Trump wins. The +3 could go either way, but Trump wins with 28 of 50 votes minimum.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28557193 - 11/26/23 01:06 PM (2 months, 7 hours ago)

Due to gerrymandering Biden would need to win by +5 or so too.

If he doesn't nothing to make real change he'll continue to rot away in favorability and votes.

Trump isn't going hard on abortion bans I don't think Because it doesn't poll well across the board.

Rfk would probably take Biden's votes and because it's not ranked choice voting, it'll only hurt democrats imo. Manchen will not help democrats, he caved the biggest change that could have helped people and the dems when he voted against the landmark new deal.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28557213 - 11/26/23 01:23 PM (2 months, 7 hours ago)

Nah, RFK will take the antivax vote, which hurts republicans nowadays. That's why they nuked his campaign a month or two ago, they realized he'd spoil the wrong candidate.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28557283 - 11/26/23 02:05 PM (2 months, 6 hours ago)

Is kind of telling if you think now that he's independent he'll take Republican votes when he was originally supposedly Democrat.

That's the neoliberal way though, economically conservative, socially.. accepting.

It's hard to say progressive because usually the acceptance is based upon the idea of expanding markets for profit, and not necessarily the social issues themselves, but I suppose the result is the same.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: sudly]
    #28557425 - 11/26/23 03:56 PM (2 months, 4 hours ago)

He was only democratic on paper. As soon as you heard him talking about vaccines. It was pretty obvious where the votes he would be getting came from.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28557486 - 11/26/23 04:45 PM (2 months, 4 hours ago)

Yeah they ran him as a Democrat spoiler, hoping to piggyback off the Kennedy name. But as soon as he started spouting off the antivax bullshit, his handlers killed his run, since he was pulling GOP votes.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos]
    #28581419 - 12/13/23 02:41 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

So... Who are they gonna swap Biden out for?

Harris? Gavin Douchum?

What's the forecast fellas?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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