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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621609 - 04/23/20 06:26 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Lol, Biden isn't going to cry because Trump used unkind words.  If that's the assumption, this is a silly conversation.  If Biden cries, it'll be because of all of the pain that he sees in the world.


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: relic] * 1
    #26621611 - 04/23/20 06:28 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

relic said:
IDK how I found this, or why, but it's been in an open window for a few days and I've meant to post it here.

I forgot all about this thing Joe has with the truth, an aversion to telling it that is, specifically in reference to his dead wife's car accident, his plagiarism, his academic prowess, etc.  Oh, and that dust up with a New Hampshire voter when he challenged the dude to an IQ matchup.

This guy has had so many do-overs, but the American electorate has a short memory--says the guy who forgot half this stuff--and is seemingly a bunch of gluttons who just love some fuckin liars.

Anyway, from.this post.

Quote:


IT AIN'T SO, JOE

By Celia Cohen
Grapevine Political Writer

If ever there was a crash that tugged at the heart of the entire state, it was the one that took the lives of Joe Biden’s wife and baby daughter and hospitalized his two toddler sons 35 years ago, just weeks after his precocious election to the U.S. Senate.

It was an unbearable turn of events, from one of the most daring political breakthroughs in Delaware political history to unspeakable grief, and there is no reason to make the accident appear worse than it was.

While campaigning in Iowa for the Democratic presidential nomination, however, Biden did.

“Let me tell you a little story,” he was quoted as saying last Friday in the New York Times.

“I got elected when I was 29, and I got elected November the 7th. And on December 18 of that year, my wife and three kids were Christmas shopping for a Christmas tree. A tractor-trailer, a guy who allegedly – and I never pursued it – drank his lunch instead of eating his lunch, broadsided my family and killed my wife instantly, and killed my daughter instantly, and hospitalized my two sons, with what were thought to be at the time permanent, fundamental injuries.”

Except there was no drinking. There was not even speeding. The truck’s brakes checked out, as well. It was not the driver’s fault.

Biden insisted Wednesday in a brief telephone interview from Iowa he told the story as he knew it.

“All I said was what I heard at the time. What I heard from folks at the time is he’d been drinking,” Biden said, sounding agitated. “I don’t want to talk about it. . . . She must have pulled out. . . . It’s still painful to talk about 35 years later.”

The embellishment is reminiscent of one of the problems that undid Biden the last time he ran for president 20 years ago. He was swallowed up mostly by plagiarism charges, but there was also an incident, taped by C-SPAN, in which Biden became irritated with a New Hampshire voter and belittled him by inflating his own uneven academic credentials.

Among Biden’s claims, he said he was named the outstanding student in political science at the University of Delaware and was in the top half of his law school class at Syracuse University, both untrue, and won an international moot court competition, which was true. He also gibed, “I’d be delighted to sit down and compare my IQ to yours.”

In Biden’s memoir, Promises to Keep, his explanation for that blowup was along the lines of his account of the accident – lack of knowledge.

“I lost my temper in New Hampshire. What I’d said about my academic achievements was just faulty memory or lack of knowledge. I hadn’t remembered where I finished in my law school class. I hadn’t cared. But to say, ‘Wanna compare IQs?’ was so stupid,” Biden wrote.

The crash involving the Biden family station wagon and the tractor-trailer driven by Curtis C. Dunn, 43, of Kaolin, Pa., occurred on Monday afternoon, Dec. 18, 1972, a week before Christmas, at the intersection of Valley and Limestone Roads in Hockessin.

Joe Biden, who turned 30 in late November, was in Washington to set up his Senate office. Neilia Biden, 30, was at the wheel with their three young children – three-year-old Beau Biden, now the state’s Democratic attorney general, two-year-old Hunter Biden, now a lawyer in Washington, and 13-month-old Amy Biden.

The tractor-trailer was heading toward Pennsylvania on Limestone Road when it broadsided the station wagon, sending it spinning for 150 feet, breaking the windshield and crushing in a rear door, while the truck itself skidded for 20 feet and landed on its side, according to The News Journal, which was printed in two editions in those days as The Morning News and the Evening Journal.

Old campaign literature littered the road, along with the truck’s load of corncobs. Dunn, the truck driver, heaved himself out of the wreckage and was the first to get to the station wagon, the newspaper said.

Neilia and Amy Biden died from the crash. Hunter Biden sustained head injuries. Beau Biden had a broken leg that kept him in the hospital beyond the start of the Senate’s new term, leading their broken-hearted father to decide to take his oath of office in the hospital chapel and to vacillate about whether he should be sworn in at all.

“We can always get another senator, but they can’t get another father,” he said.

The state police investigated the accident. The concern then was not that Dunn would get away with anything as serious as drunken driving, but that he could get railroaded. He had plowed into the family of a United States senator, after all.

As the chief deputy attorney general, Jerome Herlihy was assigned to the incident. Two days later, he issued his report, clearing Dunn.

A story headlined, “No Charges Due for Trucker in Biden Deaths,” in the Evening Journal read: “[Herlihy] said there was no evidence that [Dunn] was speeding, drinking or driving a truck with faulty brakes. In addition, Herlihy said, witnesses to the crash near Hockessin provided no basis for a prosecution.”

No further details were released, although Herlihy knew more about the accident than he let on. Years later, he elaborated.

It is hard to think of anyone better the Attorney General’s Office could have sent. Herlihy was a Republican, a good enough one that he served as the Republican state chairman in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but he also knew the Bidens and thought the world of Neilia.

In the late 1960s, Herlihy and the Bidens were neighbors with a common driveway on Marsh Road in Brandywine Hundred, when Joe Biden was a new lawyer. It was before he was elected to the Senate, even before he was elected to the New Castle County Council in 1970.

The Bidens had two German shepherds, and for better or worse, they were named “Senator” and “Governor.” When Herlihy used to pull into the driveway late at night, he would spy eyes looking at him from the bushes and call out, “Senator, is that you?”

Herlihy, now a Superior Court judge, no longer will talk about the accident because he is constrained by his judicial office from injecting himself into a political campaign. He was interviewed about it, however, in 1998 by this writer as part of the research for Only in Delaware, a history of modern state politics.

In that interview, Herlihy said Neilia Biden either accelerated or drifted through the intersection, and Dunn could not stop. The truck driver said she was not looking at him, her face turned away, and the state police thought she was distracted by one of the children in the back seat.

“She was one of the sweetest people you ever could meet. It was so tragic,” Herlihy said in 1998.

Dunn died in 1999, but Philip A. Lafferty, the truck owner he drove for, still lives in Avondale, Pa. In a telephone interview, Lafferty recalled the state police impounding the tractor-trailer and the station wagon for the investigation for a couple of days and concluding that Dunn was not at fault.

“Nothing came of it. They had people, witnesses,” Lafferty said. “He was a good truck driver, very caring. It shook him up. It was an awful thing for all of us.”

Biden’s remarks in Iowa were not his only version of the accident. He offered another description in a speech on Sept. 19, 2001, at the University of Delaware. His focus that day was the terrorist attack of Sept. 11, but he mentioned his personal tragedy to show he understood the country’s.

“I got one of those phone calls,” Biden said.

“I got a phone call saying, ‘Your wife’s dead, your daughter’s dead.’ And I’ve only said that three times in public before. But I say it here because it’s so important for you to understand. I got one of those phone calls. It was an errant driver who stopped to drink instead of drive and hit a tractor-trailer, hit my children and my wife and killed them.”

Except there was no errant drunken driver. No drinking. No speeding. Not even bad brakes.




Quoted from: http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/12-07bidencrash.asp




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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26621613 - 04/23/20 06:29 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol, Biden isn't going to cry because Trump used unkind words.  If that's the assumption, this is a silly conversation.  If Biden cries, it'll be because of all of the pain that he sees in the world.




brought back the month-old post that triggered the initial relevance in my mind

note this is not about Trump using "unkind words" but honest words to point out Biden's most gross sort of lie
it will be absurd to see a liar calling out a liar, but because the lie being called out is emotionally manipulative people will respond
they will just respond more strongly if Biden attempts to use tears as a cover


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621615 - 04/23/20 06:31 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

What lie, specifically?


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26621617 - 04/23/20 06:33 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What lie, specifically?




Quote:


In that interview, Herlihy said Neilia Biden either accelerated or drifted through the intersection, and Dunn could not stop. The truck driver said she was not looking at him, her face turned away, and the state police thought she was distracted by one of the children in the back seat.
...

Dunn died in 1999, but Philip A. Lafferty, the truck owner he drove for, still lives in Avondale, Pa. In a telephone interview, Lafferty recalled the state police impounding the tractor-trailer and the station wagon for the investigation for a couple of days and concluding that Dunn was not at fault.

“Nothing came of it. They had people, witnesses,” Lafferty said. “He was a good truck driver, very caring. It shook him up. It was an awful thing for all of us.”
...
“I got one of those phone calls,” Biden said.

“I got a phone call saying, ‘Your wife’s dead, your daughter’s dead.’ And I’ve only said that three times in public before. But I say it here because it’s so important for you to understand. I got one of those phone calls. It was an errant driver who stopped to drink instead of drive and hit a tractor-trailer, hit my children and my wife and killed them.”

Except there was no errant drunken driver. No drinking. No speeding. Not even bad brakes.




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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621620 - 04/23/20 06:35 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Yeah, that's not crying because of the lie.  That's crying because people died that he loved.  I don't see that as an issue.


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26621624 - 04/23/20 06:39 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, that's not crying because of the lie.  That's crying because people died that he loved.  I don't see that as an issue.




Biden: "my wife and kid were killed by a drunk driver"
Trump, ignoring question periods like he did with Hillary: "Lies! he wasn't drunk"
Biden: *breaks out into tears*

audience: is he crying because he lost his wife and kids or is he crying because Trump pointed out he lied about the drunk driver

as previously stated, it is all in how the tears come out


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621639 - 04/23/20 06:51 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Not to most people.  Most people will be on the side of the poor old man who's being bullies about his wife and kid dying.  Neither of them were there to know whether the dude was drunk, and it's unlikely that transcripts are going to be trotted out.


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26621655 - 04/23/20 07:02 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Not to most people.  Most people will be on the side of the poor old man who's being bullies about his wife and kid dying.  Neither of them were there to know whether the dude was drunk, and it's unlikely that transcripts are going to be trotted out.




1. Keep in mind that you can pick your least favourite, least informed member of this subforum (let's just presume it is me so no one feels picked on)
and that individual will be above the national average in terms of being informed and opinionated on these issues, no one really just bumbles into this subforum
"most people" will see what they have put in front of them, and choose based on that

2. you are discounting the screen catharsis effect that was mentioned
will have to dig through my course packs to get the actual references on it
but things like timing literally impact how people receive narrative information from their screen
the average watcher won't be sitting and critically thinking, they will be taking in what comes through the screen

cinematic timing demonstrates you can make people empathize with a hero or resent a villian for crocodile tears, based on how and when the scene cuts to the crying

this "should" be trivial, but due to the majority of viewers receiving the debate information through a screen rather than in person (theater requires different queues, and often larger and more substantial actions to evoke the viewer response)
it is a very real point of consideration to me

Trump is a shitty reality star, but he knows when the cameras point at him that it is time to start acting


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621657 - 04/23/20 07:04 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Yeah, most of the viewers won't even know much, if anything, about the story behind the car crash.  To those people, it'll look like Trump just attacking the man out of the blue.


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621666 - 04/23/20 07:10 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, most of the viewers won't even know much, if anything, about the story behind the car crash.  To those people, it'll look like Trump just attackingcalling out the manpolitician out ofon the bluestage.




People won't take calling things lies as an attack is the problem
Trump is not smart enough to throw it out as "the truck driver was found not at fault, you're making that up to make him look bad/your wife look better"
but the average American voter is not intelligent enough to need that much

all they need is to know a politician potentially lied to them in a way that made them feel emotionally vulnerable


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621672 - 04/23/20 07:14 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

First, it's unlikely that biden will say it was a drunk driver.  Trump has no credibility, even with his own base.  They don't need Trump to tell the truth.  They just want him to be outrageous, entertaining, and scathing.  Obviously his base is going to be on his side no matter what.  Most everyone else will see it as an attack below the belt.


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26621679 - 04/23/20 07:25 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
First, it's unlikely that biden will say it was a drunk driver.  ...




Biden has dementia and it is a 30-year old, emotionally formative event
it's a ticking time bomb waiting for him to ramble on telling folks a story about the dangers of evil men who break the law

he apparently at some point recognized the falsehood and apologized (non-publicly)
which is a potential good sign, as long as he doesn't get too wound up being part of the Presidential debates

Quote:

Enlil said:
Trump has no credibility, even with his own base.  They don't need Trump to tell the truth.  They just want him to be outrageous, entertaining, and scathing. ...




Yes,
but in the event that Trump does tell the truth, even through indirect action
they go wild jerking off over it, and spam posting the media having to admit it
and if Trump calls out Biden on a drunk driver claim in debate, the media will fact check it and Biden will be found to be the one with diminished credibility


Quote:

Enlil said:
...Obviously his base is going to be on his side no matter what.  Most everyone else will see it as an attack below the belt.




again, think you are construing "most everyone else" as pertaining to a larger number than is there
Obviously Biden's base is going to see it as an attack below the belt no matter what

but if it gets back in the news in a format where people can discuss it (again)...
Quote:

Townhall’s Guy Benson called the vice president’s inaccurate references to drinking, which first appeared in 2001, “bizarre and disturbing.”

“The whole situation is sad enough, why embellish it with what amounts to be an unsupported smear of a man who — according to the authorities — was not drunk, did not cause the accident, and immediately sought to ‘render assistance’ to the victims?” asked Mr. Benson in a Thursday op-ed.




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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621685 - 04/23/20 07:27 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

I think we're drifting a bit from the issue of "trump will make biden cry" though.  Attacks on Biden's credibility are inevitable.  Biden losing is inevitable.  I thought this discussion was about crying and how that will play.


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Shenmue] * 2
    #26621687 - 04/23/20 07:29 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Before the virus the world was basically the same...The economy was doing better and I received a better tax return...It's not like he's going to be the president forever.




This is actually the major crux of what bothers me about Trump and so many of his supporters. All they seem to focus on is "here" and "now", it's all short-term "push the problem down the line" mentality.

So Trump threw us a couple bucks this year, that doesn't negate the FACT that the personal tax cut disappears in a few years, while giant corporations get off without paying their fair share. The average taxpayer and the environment is worse off in the long run.

Actions have consequences beyond your immediate gratification, my friend.

Speaking of which, plenty of scholars point to Obama's policies as the reason for that "great economy" you were talking about, it was a trend continuing from the PAST president's actions.

-An independent voter

@Enlil & Tantrika

Y'all are both way off. It's gonna go like this:

Biden: "My wife who'm I was car crashed too for many many years from now wanted me to be presedent of the American state of the union, and I'm proud to tell her, honey, I dids it!

Trump: "IT'S A LIE! JOE NEVER EVEN HAD A WIFE! HE'S GAY AND I HAVE THE PROOF! ITS ALL IN HILLARY'S DELETED EMAILS, WHICH I HAVE ON VHS BUT THE DEMS ARE HIDING FROM US ALL BECAUSE THEY HATE FREEDOM GOD BLESS AMERICA CHURCH SOUNDBITE TWELVE HUNDRED DOLLARS MAGA YOUR VERY WELCOME!

Trump supports:


Everyone else:
:whateverhuman:


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621692 - 04/23/20 07:30 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I think we're drifting a bit from the issue of "trump will make biden cry" though.  Attacks on Biden's credibility are inevitable.  Biden losing is inevitable.  I thought this discussion was about crying and how that will play.




And how/when he cries will dictate how many people question his credibility as a part of it

as stated in my initial response to Shenmue, if Biden cries in a way that evokes cathartic sympathy it will benefit him
if Biden cries after a Trump comment that diminishes his credibility, it will diminish his credibility even further to have cried


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26621693 - 04/23/20 07:32 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

You're making me cry right now.


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil]
    #26621696 - 04/23/20 07:35 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You're making me cry right now.




Does that make you a Khajiit?



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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26621699 - 04/23/20 07:37 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Even though I've no idea what that is, I'd argue that it doesn't "make" me anything.  It might indicate a likelihood of me being something, but the word "make" infers causation.

So, despite my lack of complete information, my answer is a resounding, "No."


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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26621706 - 04/23/20 07:42 AM (2 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Even though I've no idea what that is, I'd argue that it doesn't "make" me anything.  It might indicate a likelihood of me being something, but the work "make" infers causation.

So, despite my lack of complete information, my answer is a resounding, "No."




It's cool,
it was my fault for misremembering that your statement was that "pussy" men don't cry
it was me who pointed out that male furries are fine with crying

Khajiit are the cat-people of the Elder Scrolls lore


am still interested if that was what you meant by "pussy" men not crying
or if it was derived from the tendency to diminish men in stature through relation to women
:tellmeastory:


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