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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,369
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27826754 - 06/19/22 03:22 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Sorry, I know it's not ok to criticize Joe Biden for being incompetent.  I need to pretend he's still a sharp guy, like the mainstream media does.

It was only ok to criticize Trump for things he didn't deserve criticism for.




Pick on someone your own age!  :oldman:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,755
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 27 minutes, 12 seconds
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27826864 - 06/19/22 06:09 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
They show up because the republicans say “everyone likes abortion but we’re gonna get in power and ban it anyway for you” and then they actually do it.

Democrats won’t act on something that’s got like 80% majority approval, let alone a fucking minority opinion.




I'm having a lot of trouble trusting "majority opinions" nowadays. There was a good article about it in the times a few weeks ago...Basically, some guy went ahead and compared poll results to voting results, and they limited it to small scale elections/ballot initiatives in localities. It was right around the buffalo shooting, so it was focused on guns, but they had an example where a poll of a small town showed nearly 90% support for background checks on gun control, but an actual ballot initiative to force background checks only within that same small town got like, 40% of the cotes.

So I don't know what's real. The poll says 80% support, but the votes say 40% support. Is the poll wrong? Are the votes wrong? Or is this an example of mismatched expectations?

I believe that the most reasonable explanation is that people (democrats) are happy to answer polls but can't be bothered to vote. Another possibility is that people lie on polls, or people lie in the voting booth.

Either way, the outcome is that polls don't matter, elections do. So, your idea having 80% majority support on a poll doesn't mean shit. Either because people are lying on the polls, or because people are refusing to vote for what they support. Either way, the polls don't matter, until democrats start showing up and pushing the blue button, just like they do in the polls.




A great deal of it is messaging and framing, which the Democrats are also intentionally horrible at. When they spend all their political energy telling their base that the things half of them want are impossible, kinda difficult to then adopt that policy with a half hearted effort. Ask Americans if they like the estate tax and they’ll say yes, ask them if they like the death tax and they’ll say no.

Not to mention our voter turnout is laughably low, democrats especially. So rather than develop and expand the excitement around progressive policy (that coincidentally hurts the ruling class), and expand the electorate, they chase the moderate vote that’s 1) already going to turn out, and 2) probably vote Republican anyway (see 2016). Also, totally a coincidence they chase that moderate vote with messaging that benefits the ruling class.


Nobody is saying the Democrats should run on abolishing private property, which is what keeps getting implied when folks say “voters just aren’t that far left.”


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,123
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 17 days, 1 hour
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #27826971 - 06/19/22 08:33 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:

He lied about the election being stolen




We went from Democrats insisting Russia stole the 2016 election to the most secure US election in history.

In 48 months we made that incredible transition. Isn't that magical?  I want Hillary to run again.  She's fun.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 27,369
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #27826984 - 06/19/22 08:41 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

That’s the awesome power of the American dream in action.  It can accomplish anything.  :snub:
And yeah, I want Hillary to run again.  In fact, I want her to be the next President just for the lulz.  It hardly matters which individual has the job of presiding over clown town.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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OfflineKryptos
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Registered: 11/01/14
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27827363 - 06/19/22 02:33 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
They show up because the republicans say “everyone likes abortion but we’re gonna get in power and ban it anyway for you” and then they actually do it.

Democrats won’t act on something that’s got like 80% majority approval, let alone a fucking minority opinion.




I'm having a lot of trouble trusting "majority opinions" nowadays. There was a good article about it in the times a few weeks ago...Basically, some guy went ahead and compared poll results to voting results, and they limited it to small scale elections/ballot initiatives in localities. It was right around the buffalo shooting, so it was focused on guns, but they had an example where a poll of a small town showed nearly 90% support for background checks on gun control, but an actual ballot initiative to force background checks only within that same small town got like, 40% of the cotes.

So I don't know what's real. The poll says 80% support, but the votes say 40% support. Is the poll wrong? Are the votes wrong? Or is this an example of mismatched expectations?

I believe that the most reasonable explanation is that people (democrats) are happy to answer polls but can't be bothered to vote. Another possibility is that people lie on polls, or people lie in the voting booth.

Either way, the outcome is that polls don't matter, elections do. So, your idea having 80% majority support on a poll doesn't mean shit. Either because people are lying on the polls, or because people are refusing to vote for what they support. Either way, the polls don't matter, until democrats start showing up and pushing the blue button, just like they do in the polls.




A great deal of it is messaging and framing, which the Democrats are also intentionally horrible at. When they spend all their political energy telling their base that the things half of them want are impossible, kinda difficult to then adopt that policy with a half hearted effort. Ask Americans if they like the estate tax and they’ll say yes, ask them if they like the death tax and they’ll say no.

Not to mention our voter turnout is laughably low, democrats especially. So rather than develop and expand the excitement around progressive policy (that coincidentally hurts the ruling class), and expand the electorate, they chase the moderate vote that’s 1) already going to turn out, and 2) probably vote Republican anyway (see 2016). Also, totally a coincidence they chase that moderate vote with messaging that benefits the ruling class.


Nobody is saying the Democrats should run on abolishing private property, which is what keeps getting implied when folks say “voters just aren’t that far left.”




Well, yeah, that's kind of my point. Voter turnout is laughably low, democrats especially.

If I was a democratic politician, I look at the electorate and see: 20% of the country will always voter republican, 10% of the country will always vote democrat, and 20% of the country will, at the very least, vote.

How fucking stupid would I be to take those numbers, and decide to focus my message on the 50% of the country that can't be bothered to show up?

The implication of "voters just aren't that far left" isn't that voters are all right wing. The implication is that the left wing does not vote. I think Bernie's a pretty great example, actually. If his message resonated so well, then why did he lose the nomination? "oh, DNC shenanigans" that's called passing the buck. If his message resonated so well among voters, then DNC shenanigans wouldn't have stopped him because there would have been overwhelming support. The DNC would have been steamrolled.

He lost the nomination because his message resonated across reddit, and the people of reddit can't be bothered to go outside and vote for what they believe in.

Until democrats demonstrate a willingness to show up and vote reliably, doing anything other than slowly sliding right is a stupid strategy. Likes and shares don't matter, votes do. And only the right wing actually shows up to vote. It makes no sense to tailor a message that resonates among the people that aren't gonna show up at the polls anyway.

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Offlinechristopera
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Registered: 10/13/17
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #27827414 - 06/19/22 03:22 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:

He lied about the election being stolen




We went from Democrats insisting Russia stole the 2016 election to the most secure US election in history.

In 48 months we made that incredible transition. Isn't that magical?  I want Hillary to run again.  She's fun.




Very few said Russia stole the election, in fact even mainstream news media said otherwise. The argument was that Russia interfered, manipulated, and played social median in a way to support Trump. Which we know is true. We also know that happened in 2020, again to support Trump.

Trump himself had many, many lawsuits claiming election fraud and lost them all. If there was some evidence of a stolen election Trump, Mike Pillow, and the rest of the retards could have proven at least once example of a stolen election.

The conspiracy theory needs to end. 2016 and 2020 were influenced by Russian involvement. 2020 was easily won by a guy with dementia. That's how retarded Trump is.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,755
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 27 minutes, 12 seconds
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #27827424 - 06/19/22 03:31 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Sure but it’s not an inevitability that only 40ish percent of adults vote, that’s the product being deliberately pursued by the agenda laid forth by the major parties. And since the barrier to entry for a new party is monumental, they don’t have to do shit about it. Democrats don’t care if they lose, it’s actually better for them if Republicans keep taking power. That’s why they don’t bother to pass a new voting rights act or make any serious attempt at inroads into “red” areas of the country. The most reliable voter has concluded that the democrats are worthless and at least the republicans will let me win my culture war shit so they do that. Democrats, despite every fucking demographic advantage, continue to fuck it up because Democrats being in power reveals the farce of them being the party of the working class. Imagine if the Obama coalition had held power since 2009, so over a decade of Democrats deciding policy, not a single thing would be different except the public perception that the democrats can fix things if it weren’t for the GOP messing things up over and over. Only real blue wave of my lifetime and all we got from it was a right wing healthcare plan. So why bother? And somehow the voters are blamed for properly analyzing this situation they’ve been placed in.

I get so tired of seeing people, mouth agape, wondering how on gods green earth could working class people vote against their interests and for Republicans, as if the alternative (voting for democrats) would yield such a better return for their interests.


--------------------

Edited by The Ecstatic (06/19/22 03:40 PM)

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Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,250
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27827443 - 06/19/22 03:43 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
The argument was that Russia interfered, manipulated, and played social median in a way to support Trump. Which we know is true. We also know that happened in 2020, again to support Trump.





:lmao:

Yeah, keep telling yourself that buddy...

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,755
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 27 minutes, 12 seconds
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27827446 - 06/19/22 03:44 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

This meme is Democratic messaging to its voters:





Alright come on lazy ass, it’s the most important election of your life again. We both know nothing will change but if you don’t bother then I’ll just use you as an excuse to market myself even more to the white moderate (whose agenda conveniently aligns with that of my corporate sponsors).


--------------------

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27827479 - 06/19/22 03:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
The argument was that Russia interfered, manipulated, and played social median in a way to support Trump. Which we know is true.



We do know that???  Can you please link to the evidence that I must have missed?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,939
Loc: United States Flag
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27827527 - 06/19/22 04:25 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Yo for the millionth time just because you don't want to face facts doesn't mean that history will remember both the Russian interference and trumps insurrection coup attempt as a gross attack on freedom and democracy. :facepalm:

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 1
    #27827528 - 06/19/22 04:27 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Yo for the millionth time just because you don't want to face facts doesn't mean that history will remember both the Russian interference and trumps insurrection coup attempt as a gross attack on freedom and democracy. :facepalm:



So no facts to share, just make believe?  I thought so.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
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Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27827575 - 06/19/22 05:13 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Gustavo Petro appears to have been elected President of Columbia.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27827624 - 06/19/22 05:52 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Sure but it’s not an inevitability that only 40ish percent of adults vote, that’s the product being deliberately pursued by the agenda laid forth by the major parties. And since the barrier to entry for a new party is monumental, they don’t have to do shit about it. Democrats don’t care if they lose, it’s actually better for them if Republicans keep taking power. That’s why they don’t bother to pass a new voting rights act or make any serious attempt at inroads into “red” areas of the country. The most reliable voter has concluded that the democrats are worthless and at least the republicans will let me win my culture war shit so they do that. Democrats, despite every fucking demographic advantage, continue to fuck it up because Democrats being in power reveals the farce of them being the party of the working class. Imagine if the Obama coalition had held power since 2009, so over a decade of Democrats deciding policy, not a single thing would be different except the public perception that the democrats can fix things if it weren’t for the GOP messing things up over and over. Only real blue wave of my lifetime and all we got from it was a right wing healthcare plan. So why bother? And somehow the voters are blamed for properly analyzing this situation they’ve been placed in.

I get so tired of seeing people, mouth agape, wondering how on gods green earth could working class people vote against their interests and for Republicans, as if the alternative (voting for democrats) would yield such a better return for their interests.




Yup. The best people can hope for is right wing policy. That will remain true until democrats start going out and voting.

The alternative being, of course, a mixture of no policy or actively harmful policy.

You're right, voters should be able to analyze the situation, and realize that they can either vote for the lesser of two evils or vote for the party that literally has no platform apart from Joe Biden is not legitimately president, the legislature needs to be banned from legislating anything regarding guns, and otherwise we do what Trump says. Oh, and also gay people need to be exterminated.

The problem here is that the boomers essentially decided that the government should do nothing except pay them their social security checks. It's gonna take time to change that. Probably our entire lifetimes, actually. You and I are gonna have to deal with the bullshit because our parents wanted to have a good time.

So the question becomes, do we want to to that, or should we whine and pass the problems further down the line?

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Offlinechristopera
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Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,436
Last seen: 1 hour, 56 minutes
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27827763 - 06/19/22 07:43 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
The argument was that Russia interfered, manipulated, and played social median in a way to support Trump. Which we know is true.



We do know that???  Can you please link to the evidence that I must have missed?




Well let's not forget the domestic interference operations too, most of which were in favor of Trump too.

You've probably missed those too.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: christopera]
    #27827788 - 06/19/22 07:57 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I dunno if "missed" is the right word.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: christopera]
    #27827873 - 06/19/22 09:00 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
The argument was that Russia interfered, manipulated, and played social median in a way to support Trump. Which we know is true.



We do know that???  Can you please link to the evidence that I must have missed?




Well let's not forget the domestic interference operations too, most of which were in favor of Trump too.

You've probably missed those too.



Yes I missed those too.  Can you share how Russia supported Trump?

The Nation published the only in-depth study I'm aware of on this.  Did the Bernie cartoon that the NY Times shared push everyone towards Trump?  :lol:



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,939
Loc: United States Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27827883 - 06/19/22 09:08 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Are you being serious?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #27827891 - 06/19/22 09:18 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Yes.  I posted extensively about it here.

As always, if you have counter-evidence, I'm willing to listen, but it seems no one ever does.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,250
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27827916 - 06/19/22 09:44 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

CNN is now claiming that Russia plans to "undermine the midterm elections" as "revenge" for our response to their invasion of Ukraine lmfao.

I genuinely feel sorry for anybody who is dumb and zombified enough to believe this crap. They probably rode the short bus...

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