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Offlinewolf8312
Pennywise
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: christopera]
    #27020912 - 11/04/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Does anyone think Trump would have a chance against Bernie?




To be honest I assumed Bernie was selected in order to field the weakest and most un-charismatic candidate possible and thus ensure a trump victory! Half the public these days think its all a big reality TV show (hence Trump) and obligingly vote off the most tedious contestant!

My guess is Trump will win, though not sure it will matter much either way. The shitstorm will still continue...


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 1
    #27032070 - 11/10/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

BallHairDandruf said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
The criminal cases are still pending.  They're not going to publicly release the evidence for a pending case, dude.



I never asked for them to publicly release evidence. I said where is your evidence. An indictment is nothing, especially in this case.



Lmao you can't ask for evidence that hasn't been publicly released and indictments don't mean nothing that's just an asinine understanding of law and if you were indicted you probably wouldn't feel like it's nothing




Evidence we're not allowed to see but just take the medias word for it because of how many times they repeated the same message? Propaganda 101. All very familiar...

If there is no honest to God evidence this discussion should be moved to the conspiracy forum until there is, but alas it is a mainstream narrative. Another example of double standards and how 'truth' these days is whatever our wonderful and trustworthy MSM determines it to be.

Why on earth do these narratives (accusations of Russian interference for which self evidently people here can provide no actual evidence) get pushed so incessantly on forums like this on a daily basis, while others will quickly be carted off to be damned and discredited by being placed in the resident lunatic asylum or conspiracy forum?

The media (and those who support it) may pretend to hate Trump, but are responsible not only for his success but also for creating the conditions (and support from large swaths of a disgruntled public) that enabled it.

Two sides of the same coin, and unfortunately the real aim is almost certainly to divide Americans, and set them against each other as we also see here on a daily basis.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Edited by wolf8312 (11/10/20 06:13 PM)


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Offlinewolf8312
Pennywise
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27032305 - 11/10/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Dude, you are ignoring that congress, including both sides of the aisle, determined there was election interference.  This was based on reports from the intelligence community.  Now, it's possible that they're all lying, but it's also possible that you don't get to see it because it's intelligence information, so it is secret for a reason.

Your personal curiosity is wholly irrelevant. When have you ever seen a prosecutor reveal all of his evidence publicly before trial in a criminal case?  That doesn't happen, and you're being intellectually dishonest in pretending that this is somehow a sign that no evidence exists.

The truth is that a grand jury was shown evidence sufficient for them to issue two indictments.  You don't have to agree with them, and the defendants are certainly innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn't make it true to claim that there is no evidence.

In contrast, several of trump's cases have already been dismissed for lack of evidence. That's true because that's how court's work.  If there were no evidence in the criminal cases based on Russian interference, why hasn't the court dismissed them?




I am not saying no evidence of Russian interference in the US election exists. I am saying I haven't seen the evidence and therefore I do not know it exists. You yourself also haven't seen the evidence and cannot present it to us, therefore you too do not know it exists. Therefore people should not be nonchalantly presenting this accusation as a guaranteed fact until there is some evidence to back it up.

As we know the US government/media, and US intelligence fabricated evidence of WMD in Iraq among many other historical crimes and fabrications that I won't go into here. Needless to say though, in my opinion taking their word for anything is utterly insane.

Whenever they repeat things again, and again, and again, and again in the media, providing no actual evidence for their claims besides what some official source, or high intelligence official, may or may not have said, there is indeed a very good chance that the claim will be bogus. Without being proven in court (and more importantly evidence presented before the public) guilt or innocence can not be determined.

I have no problem with people believing that the Russians interfered in the US election as it is quite possible I suppose.

But it's also quite possible the charges are fabricated, and therefore I still want to see the evidence before I'll believe anything that the US/UK state and its support apparatus the MSM tells me.

This is the real problem we have today and why D. Trump has prospered. Nobody truly knows anything anymore about what is actually going on out there. And that is no accident...


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27032315 - 11/10/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Almost everything in that post is false.




Classic Enlil! Arrogant enough to beleive that your simply declaring something automatically makes it true.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27032319 - 11/10/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Close. Me saying it doesn't MAKE it true. I say it BECAUSE it's true.




Your honor its true BECAUSE its true! The prosecution rests!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: psi] * 1
    #27032351 - 11/10/20 09:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
I think his argument is that the indictments could not have happened without evidence, so we can say for certain that evidence supporting the indictments must existed in order for the indictments to occur, even if we don't know what the evidence is.




All I was saying is that having an indictment is not proof of guilt and I'm objecting to people stating that the Russians interfered in the US election without them actually knowing this for certain. There are countless other examples (rape allegations, Syria) as well where we never actually see or really know the evidence, but the media narrative quickly gets carved into stone. It is very dangerous.

But this is now being twisted into a debate over 'evidence' or no 'evidence' when this really wasn't the debate I was having originally (I stated there was no evidence on this forum) and is a straw man to be frank.

I was saying there was no proof or certainty of Russian interference, and mere 'evidence' (which could be anything prepared by anyone) alone is no reason to present Russian interference in the US election as an obvious fact here on the shroomery or anywhere else.

The court of law only works if the evidence is presented to the public/jury/media, and there is an honest media willing to fight for justice when injustices are readily apparent.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27032367 - 11/10/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Proof and evidence are synonymous in the context of court.  There is proof that Russia interfered. You can dismiss that proof all you want and believe truther nonsense, if you so choose.  That's your right.  I have no illusions about ever having anything resembling a rational conversation with you about any of it, so I won't bother.





Truther lol! Attempting to have your opponent sectioned under the mental health act is easier than actually providing evidence to back up your claims I guess! Name calling and declarative statements do not win the argument councilor!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Edited by wolf8312 (11/10/20 09:58 PM)


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27032368 - 11/10/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Russia has been meddling in our elections since 1945 .  I seems foolish to assume they didn't in 2016  or won't in the future . They've  probably tried fuck with every election after ww2 but their efforts were and are mostly lame .  No one really cared until we had a president that asked for their help during his campaign on live tv .  Sucks to be that dumb I guess .


Quote:

Henry Wallace, commerce secretary under Harry Truman, was the first candidate Moscow targeted for support, back in 1948. Broadly sympathetic to Soviet designs, Wallace set the tone for his pro-Soviet views early. “The first thing we have evidence for is, in Oct. 1945, when he was still the secretary of commerce, Wallace contacted




https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/magazine/amp/story/2019/10/26/russias-long-and-mostly-unsuccessful-history-of-election-interference-229884




That’s weak source! You might as well quote Wikipedia!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27032396 - 11/10/20 10:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The evidence that the DNC hack originated in Russia is pretty clear.  "Guccifer 2.0" admitted hacking it.  He was traced back to a Russian IP when he forgot to use a VPN on one of his communications.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this shit out.




It doesn’t take a rocket science either to figure out that something being traced back to Russia or even a Russian doesn’t automatically imply Russian involvement.

I for example am an English man living in China. If I hack an American computer would that automatically mean there is Chinese involvement? In the murky world of espionage nothing can be taken for granted. They get up to all kinds of tricks.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Warrk] * 1
    #27032404 - 11/10/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:

Whenever they repeat things again, and again, and again, and again in the media, providing no actual evidence for their claims besides what some official source, or high intelligence official, may or may not have said, there is indeed a very good chance that the claim will be bogus. Without being proven in court (and more importantly evidence presented before the public) guilt or innocence can not be determined.






Sounds like Trump banging on about voting fraud. Bogus. No evidence.




Wasn’t I myself asking for evidence buddy? Out of interest exactly what did I say that is bogus? I’d be happy to provide you some evidence if you tell me what I need to find you evidence for?


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27032422 - 11/10/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's what we have, at the very least, tracing the DNC hack to Russia.  The ip led to a specific GRU office on Grizodubovoy Street in Moscow.  Now, is that "irrefutable proof?"  Of course not.  There is no such thing as irrefutable proof.  It is, however, more than enough proof for me to form the opinion that Russians were responsible for the DNC hack.




Quote:


Yes, that would mean there is Chinese involvement.  Even more so if you use Chinese software to do it.  Even moreso if that IP led directly back to a Chinese intelligence office in Beijing.




Sigh...


Quote:

Enlil said:
That's what we have, at the very least, tracing the DNC hack to Russia.  The ip led to a specific GRU office on Grizodubovoy Street in Moscow.  Now, is that "irrefutable proof?"  Of course not.  There is no such thing as irrefutable proof.  It is, however, more than enough proof for me to form the opinion that Russians were responsible for the DNC hack.




If you presented them as opinions fine, but the problem is Enlil you present your ideas as irrefutable facts, while being contemptuous (truther) of anyone with his own opinions, and only bending ever so slightly if chased to the very ends of the earth.

I don't know the truth, but I do know that you don't either. Anyway take care, gotta do some work!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27032566 - 11/11/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No one knows the truth.  The truth is unknowable.  All humans can do is use our brains to rationally try to get as close to the truth as we can.  Some people are better at that than others, though, which is why we have idiots out there believing in nutjob conspiracy theories.

Like anything else in human existence, it's a spectrum.  Omniscience on one end and ignorance on the other.  We're all born ignorant, and we'll never reach omniscience.  So, we all fall somewhere on that spectrum as we move through life.  Depending on many factors, a certain population will have an acceptable range of knowledge on that spectrum.  Some people will exceed that range and be considered genius, brilliant, whatever.  Others will fall below that range and be idiots. 

I don't presume to have a brain powerful enough to find some absolute truth, but I think I'm within the acceptable range of "normal" or "rational" for humans at this point in evolution.  Still, everything anyone ever says about anything is really just an opinion based on available information gathered by limited senses and a priori analysis.





But what you call 'conspiracy theory' is a catch all derrogative that implies all so called conspiracy theories are equally foolish, when in fact they too exist on a spectrum ranging from believing all world leaders are lizards, to that there was CIA involvement in the Kennedy assassination(s).

You might not agree with the later, but to dismiss those who do as 'nut-jobs' on par with people who believe in reptilian overlords would in itself be ignorant and dismissive (or something worse) especially as something like about 80 percent of the American public these days apparently believe the same thing. In the end history itself will be the judge and the truth will usually come out.

Joseph Lister was at one time considered by his peers a 'nut job' but that certainly didn't make them right!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Edited by wolf8312 (11/11/20 01:04 AM)


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Offlinewolf8312
Pennywise
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: BallHairDandruf]
    #27032615 - 11/11/20 01:07 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BallHairDandruf said:
Usually dont do the liberal way and feel like beating people up for doing something I dont like or being a little smart ass. But this is my only exception. My brother and now added on, Enlil.





Yeah politics can be annoying. I just try to keep in mind that my opinions can't change anything, especially other peoples opinions!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Warrk]
    #27032681 - 11/11/20 02:22 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
Who would like to put down some money on whether Joe Biden becomes President or not?

Call it a bet if you will.

I’m willing to bet $1000 that Joe Biden will be sworn in as President and that claims of voting fraud by the Trump camp are nothing more than bluster.

Who’s in?




I don’t know man. Gotta bad feeling about it!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Warrk]
    #27032749 - 11/11/20 04:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hell no! :smile:


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: qman]
    #27034004 - 11/11/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
That's really stupid logic.  Voting for Hitler despite his shortcomings doesn't make one any less fascist.  Trump defined his Presidency by his racist policy agenda.  Other than that, he accomplished nothing except increasing the trade deficit, unemployment, and environmental destruction.






No, his Presidency wasn't defined with a "racist policy agenda". His Presidency was more defined by being pro-business, anti-Establishment and anti-media with slight coatings of anti-PC rhetoric.




Media shares a lot of blame. They make themselves and the mendacious/manipulative form of politics they represent so utterly disliked that many people voted for him just to spite them. But after these last 4 years how anyone could think to themselves you know what I want more of the same please is just unbelievable. Not hopeful about Biden but at least we can imagine now that things might just get better. Other than having more opportunities to vent their vitriol these people did not personally benefit from Trumps presidency in any way. So why on earth would they vote for him again? What can they possibly hope to gain from it? Just such a sham democracy when those two were the only realistic candidates!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #27034307 - 11/11/20 10:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Why would you vote for someone because your mad at the media ?  The media has no control over your life , doesn't tax you or make policy that will affect your future  . That makes zero sense .




I’m sorry I don’t really understand what you’re saying! Did you mean why wouldn’t I vote for someone if I was mad at the media?

Well I’m not American so I can’t vote anyway, but you seem there to be arguing against what you would like me to have said, rather than what I actually said, or maybe need to explain yourself better and use quotations from what I wrote.

If you seriously believe the media has no control over western society and its people’s then I beg to differ. The media has enormous power and influence over what we believe and how people behave. Even in a healthy democracy. There are people on this forum whose entire worldview is a reflection of that right/left media narrative whereas any who question or deviate from it will be adjudged to be mentally ill!

If you genuinely believe that the state has no control of the media, or the media our lives then respectfully I think that’s very naive, especially in these times.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] * 4
    #27048564 - 11/20/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Why can't we do the good old American thing and make these think theyre getting free shit but really make up the loss on the backside? Who's gonna pay for all this shit enlil?




I don't think you understand how it works mate. It isn't free. It's just not run for obscene profit margins (though this is sadly changing). You still pay towards it through taxation. I for example as a British expat cannot get free medical care in the UK unless I go back home and start earning again (paying tax).

Health-care for profit is just about as decadent and corrupt (for many reasons) as anything possibly could be, while anyone (or maybe not wealthy conservatives) who has lived in a country with 'free' health-care will tell you they consider themselves blessed.

You seem to have bought into US propaganda that relies upon the ignorance of great swaths of the American public, whom rather than actually sticking their head out of America and finding out about these things for themselves, prefer instead to just believe what the television is telling them about decadent communist/socialist health-care!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #27430427 - 08/16/21 02:33 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I’m not sure what you’re implying. That I’m okay with the suffering as long as the Taliban does it? I’m not. I agree that we should be alleviating suffering around the world, especially when we’ve caused that suffering. But I’m also smart enough to know that extending the war indefinitely isn’t feasible, or good, even if the goal of the war was to alleviate that suffering (which, again, it isn’t). I also know that the media’s sudden interest in protecting feminism in Afghanistan is an absolutely craven excuse to continue the war, it’s just one they think will sell better.




It's also lining up yet another (albeit the same) pretext for future conflicts, bringing us full circle once again to the kind of good vs evil rhetoric that kicked off the Afghan and certainly the Iraq war in the first place.

As it will be portrayed as a failure that occurred on the democrats' watch (as if both sides didn't know full well what the plan was) it won't be long before the republican's will once again adopt the old Churchillian rhetoric and in speaking of the next designated "bad guy" will declare:

The next time won't be another Afghanistan we'll see it through to the end this time and won't abandon those poor people like the democrats did the Afghans...

In doing this not only can they evade responsibility for a disaster they themselves are responsible for (along with the Democrats) but can actually now spin the war -and indeed war itself- as a good thing that but for the ‘meddling Democrats’ would have been a great and noble success!

As if the whole lesson here is not that intervention of this kind will kill hundreds of thousands of people and leave you in exactly the same place as you started. That is assuming of course one is gullible enough to believe that the US and it’s kindly leaders go to war for ethical reasons!

I used to believe that the history I learned as a kid, hammering it into me how evil the Nazi's were, was to ensure such wars and atrocities never occurred again.

I know now it was to ensure that such wars and atrocities could occur again.

The ironic thing is is it's the exact same MO used by Hitler and the Nazis themselves oh those poor oppressed Sudeten Germans!

Sham morality is the one and only way to start a war.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



Edited by wolf8312 (08/16/21 03:42 PM)


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Joe Biden? Really? [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27831490 - 06/22/22 09:30 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolverine03 said:
I guess I'm in a minority for doing that (see my signature)




No, you're in the minority because most people don't get paid by the Kremlin.

A man who must declare himself king is no true king, and a man who must declare himself logical and truthful is neither.




You really believe he's paid by the Kremlin to post on the shroomery?

But if so, would it not then be safe to assume that the US government employs its own operatives on high activity websites like this one, maneuvering them into positions of authority to have them filter out sensitive discussion topics (election fraud) while happily allowing other more permissible topics (Russiagate) topics that they wish to promote?

Are you, as a tireless supporter (with Neoliberal/marxist tendencies if some of our past conversations were anything to go on) of the US d-state/MSM, on every topic from Assange, to Covid, to the Canadian truckers, and Ukraine, not a much more plausible shill/sockpuppet of the US d-state, than Falcon is one of Russia?


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Buckomcdoogle 729 26 10/09/20 10:31 AM
by CHeifM4sterDiezL

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