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OfflineCrobih
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A couple of questions.
    #2625738 - 05/01/04 01:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Imagine summer in the US. Terroristic actions everywhere. Iraqi extremists are doing retaliation for what the american people did to them. Do you find it to be a fair? Whom would you blame for it?

One more thing, government is now trying to censor Internet, due to the escalation of terror. Are you going to fight for your freedom?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626001 - 05/01/04 02:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

One more thing, government is now trying to censor Internet, due to the escalation of terror.



Examples please.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2626080 - 05/01/04 03:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think the idea that extremists in Iraq would attack us out of revenge is silly. The most extreme guys in Iraq are from Al-Qaeda and they already had had no problem with killing Americans.
I would not think it tit-for-tat, as these guys have been killing large numbers of people since the mid 90s. The ones you have to really worry about aren't going to be swayed by the Iraq war because they already wanted to kill us all.

There really isn't anyone else to blame except the assholes that did it.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Anonymous

Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626157 - 05/01/04 03:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Imagine summer in the US. Terroristic actions everywhere. Iraqi extremists are doing retaliation for what the american people did to them. Do you find it to be a fair?

would it be fair if US citizens went over to japan after pearl harbor and started targetting japanese civilians?

would it be fair if after 9-11, US citizens went over to afghanistan and started targetting afghani civilians?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2626179 - 05/01/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
I think the idea that extremists in Iraq would attack us out of revenge is silly. The most extreme guys in Iraq are from Al-Qaeda and they already had had no problem with killing Americans.
I would not think it tit-for-tat, as these guys have been killing large numbers of people since the mid 90s. The ones you have to really worry about aren't going to be swayed by the Iraq war because they already wanted to kill us all.

There really isn't anyone else to blame except the assholes that did it.



I'm fairly sure there's a lot more resistance groups than just Al Queda. There's Sunnis and Shi'ites, two factions that previously could never get along, suddenly united in their quest to kick out an occupying power. Now, they may be pushing for a type of government that I personally would not want to live under, but it is their right to fight off an occupying power, as long as they are only targeting military targets.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: ]
    #2626214 - 05/01/04 03:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Fair? The said fact is that it is your government. You legitimated it, you are responsible for it. In the good and in the bad. You can not run from it.

Anyway, what I know about Croatia is that I could not blame terrorist hitting Cro targets in the momoment when my army is occupying their land, killing the thousands of people who just want to rid off the occupator.

It is my responsibility and I have to deal with it.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2626241 - 05/01/04 03:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I'm fairly sure there's a lot more resistance groups than just Al Queda. There's Sunnis and Shi'ites, two factions that previously could never get along, suddenly united in their quest to kick out an occupying power. Now, they may be pushing for a type of government that I personally would not want to live under, but it is their right to fight off an occupying power, as long as they are only targeting military targets.




Those are not the guys that are blowing up buildings, marketplaces and schoolbuses. The ones in Iraq that are resorting to large-scale terrorist tactics, that the US would actually have to worry about are Al-Qaeda. We already have to worry about them.

And if it was actual Iraqi militants they would still be at fault because they make the choice to deliberately kill civilians in acts of terrorism. Nobody forced them. There are alot of oppressed people in the world who do not resort to terrorism. That is the terrorists choice and nobody should be held responsible for it except them, and nobody should have to capitulate to their demands to avoid terrorism.


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Anonymous

Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626261 - 05/01/04 04:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Fair? The said fact is that it is your government. You legitimated it, you are responsible for it. In the good and in the bad. You can not run from it.

i, like nearly all american civilians, did not intentionally or unintentionally kill any iraqis, and so did not support the killing physically.

i, like millions of americans, do not pay any federal taxes, and so did not support the killing financially.

i, like 83% of the US population, did not vote for george w. bush, and so did not support the killing politically.

and that's just me. i'm an able-bodied adult male, and i still didn't do any of these things. how about a child? how are you going to say a child is "responsible for it"?

do you honestly believe that killing civilians in retaliation for what their government does is acceptable?


Edited by Anonymous (05/01/04 04:07 PM)


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: ]
    #2626308 - 05/01/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i, like nearly all american civilians, did not intentionally or unintentionally kill any iraqis, and so did not support the killing physically.

i, like millions of americans, do not pay any federal taxes, and so did not support the killing financially.

i, like 83% of the US population, did not vote for george w. bush, and so did not support the killing politically.

and that's just me. i'm an able-bodied adult male, and i still didn't do any of these things. how about a child? how are you going to say a child is "responsible for it"?

do you honestly believe that killing civilians in retaliation for what their government does is acceptable?




The world we live in is not a dream, but something where the karmic cirlce does worth. By ignoring the responsibility of the american people who accepted the WAR IN THEIR NAME, you are ignoring the rule of the karmic circle.

You are ignoring the fact that it is YOU WHO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CORRUPTED government, bacause only in that way you will save those who are really not responsible for what YOU DID to the world. If you want to protect the innocent children, you have to face the reality, not keeping running away from it. Because in that way you wont get far away. And not just that, the whole world is risking to much by keeping this sort of an atitude.

Yes. Responosibilitiy is not something easy. It is not something we love. It is a burden. But that burden is something necessary if you want to proetect the things that are worthy to protect.

And no. You can not say it is not your bussines. It is your bussines. It is the bussines of all of us.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626322 - 05/01/04 04:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How am I, as an American, responsible for the war? I voted against Bush in 2000, I opposed the war from the very beginning, and I went to protests. I never accepted the war in my name, and I am not responsible for the opinions and decisions of other Americans. Unless you can explain how I am responsible for this, your point is null and void.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2626338 - 05/01/04 04:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Posing over this thing is not enough. The World is full of posers who think that by posing they can escape from their own responsibility. Remeber protests in London? It does not worth a dime.

As long as the World is going downward, all the effort that has been undertaken does not worth a dime. So, you have to change the tactics, you have to create the political alternative that will change those corrupted structures.

Because that is the only way to stop this nonsense.

And no more posing around.


Edited by Crobih (05/01/04 04:26 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626340 - 05/01/04 04:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Answer my question, please. How am I responsible for the decisions and opinions of others?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2626355 - 05/01/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You are the one who legitimazed these actions. The same thing is with those 84% Spanish who said NO in a wanking manner and accepted the governement who send the troops to the Iraq. You are a part of those who are responsible. You have to face it.

Because saying no and oposing in this manner is nothing. And on the contrary american troops in Iraq is not nothing.


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Anonymous

Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626363 - 05/01/04 04:32 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The world we live in is not a dream, but something where the karmic cirlce does worth.

you're right, it's not a dream. you have a rather strange idea of karma.

By ignoring the responsibility of the american people who accepted the WAR IN THEIR NAME, you are ignoring the rule of the karmic circle.

i'm not ignoring them, i'm just saying that all citizens do not fall into that category.

You are ignoring the fact that it is YOU WHO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CORRUPTED government, bacause only in that way you will save those who are really not responsible for what YOU DID to the world.

excuse me... i thought i made this clear. I DID NOT do anything. nor did millions of other civilians who you have decide are still somehow game for terrorists.

Yes. Responosibilitiy is not something easy. It is not something we love. It is a burden. But that burden is something necessary if you want to proetect the things that are worthy to protect.

people are responsible for THEIR OWN ACTIONS.


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Anonymous

Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626374 - 05/01/04 04:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

are iraqi civilians responsible for their own government's actions?

if so, is it acceptable for iranians, kuwaitis, and israelis to begin intentionally killing iraqi civilians?

if america, in response for 9-11, carpet bombed afghanistan, would that have been ok? hell, it's just karma, right?  :smirk:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626380 - 05/01/04 04:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Crobih said:
You are the one who legitimazed these actions. The same thing is with those 84% Spanish who said NO in a wanking manner and accepted the governement who send the troops to the Iraq. You are a part of those who are responsible. You have to face it.



I have nothing to face except the fact that I did all I could within legal limits to prevent that war from happening. I am not those Americans who supported the war. I am an individual who opposed it. Typical collectivist bullshit.

Quote:

Because saying no and oposing in this manner is nothing. And on the contrary american troops in Iraq is not nothing.



What do you expect me to do? Blow up the White House? Do it yourself if that's how you feel.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: ]
    #2626883 - 05/01/04 06:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
The world we live in is not a dream, but something where the karmic cirlce does worth.

you're right, it's not a dream. you have a rather strange idea of karma.




Fuck it. I wish it was different, but it is not.

Quote:

By ignoring the responsibility of the american people who accepted the WAR IN THEIR NAME, you are ignoring the rule of the karmic circle.

i'm not ignoring them, i'm just saying that all citizens do not fall into that category.




You are absolutelly right. Yet! It is obvious that your karma is attached to the karma of your entity and of the whole World. This karma has nothing to your wish, but to the reality we all face. The reality we might not like. But we choosed to live, so we have to obey to the rules of nature.

Quote:

You are ignoring the fact that it is YOU WHO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CORRUPTED government, bacause only in that way you will save those who are really not responsible for what YOU DID to the world.

excuse me... i thought i made this clear. I DID NOT do anything. nor did millions of other civilians who you have decide are still somehow game for terrorists.




If you and 100 000 000 of people did not do anything, but elected somebody who is the greatest threat to the World today, than you already did too much. You migh say it was not you who elected Bush, but it is your entity, something that is hardly attached to your destiny and you as human being. Now, you have to correct the mistake you did. You must stop ignoring your part of responsibility. You have to start working on correcting this World problem.

Quote:

Yes. Responosibilitiy is not something easy. It is not something we love. It is a burden. But that burden is something necessary if you want to proetect the things that are worthy to protect.

people are responsible for THEIR OWN ACTIONS.




Doing nothing is thing that makes you responsible for doing nothing when you had to do something!


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: ]
    #2626892 - 05/01/04 06:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
are iraqi civilians responsible for their own government's actions?




Yes, they are. It was them who legitimated their government. It was them whose ignorance has been too costly for themselves.

Quote:

if so, is it acceptable for iranians, kuwaitis, and israelis to begin intentionally killing iraqi civilians?




Why should Iranians, Kuwaitis and Israelis do that?

Quote:

if america, in response for 9-11, carpet bombed afghanistan, would that have been ok? hell, it's just karma, right?  :smirk:




Whose responsibility is 9-11? Do you know it?


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2626901 - 05/01/04 06:59 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I have nothing to face except the fact that I did all I could within legal limits to prevent that war from happening. I am not those Americans who supported the war. I am an individual who opposed it. Typical collectivist bullshit.




No, it is not bullshit. You are part of your society.

Quote:

Quote:

Because saying no and oposing in this manner is nothing. And on the contrary american troops in Iraq is not nothing.



What do you expect me to do? Blow up the White House? Do it yourself if that's how you feel.




No. It is time to start being political.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: A couple of questions. [Re: Crobih]
    #2626960 - 05/01/04 07:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You're a Karma extremists.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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