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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Iraq protests * 3
    #26246160 - 10/11/19 09:00 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?

Source Article:

https://theconversation.com/violent-crackdown-against-iraq-protests-exposes-fallacy-of-the-countrys-democracy-124830


When Muhanad Habib, a 22-year-old Iraqi from the Sadr City district of Baghdad, posted on Facebook in late September, he probably didn’t imagine that his demands for a better life and basic rights would be met with bullets.

It will be a huge and angry public revolution in Baghdad … We will take to the streets protesting … Enough silence about what’s going on in Iraq. We cannot just watch Iraq being destroyed when we have armies of jobless and poor.

This was how it all started. Angry youth from Baghdad took to the streets. Unaffiliated with any political party or with well-known activists, the protesters – the majority of whom were born in the late 1990s or early 2000s – despaired about any prospect for change in Iraq.

The crackdown by security forces that followed left more than 100 people dead and thousands more injured. Iraqi president Barham Salih condemned the crackdown in a televised speech on October 7, claiming that orders to shoot at the protesters weren’t made by the state or its apparatus. The interior ministry ordered an investigation into the deaths.

Yet, Salih’s statement raised questions about who is actually running the Iraqi state. And despite his and international condemnation, the crackdown continues on the ground.

Calls for a homeland
Endemic corruption, unemployment, flawed institutions and poor public services linger in Iraq and have prompted protests since 2011, including notably in Basra in 2018. The recapture of Iraqi lands from the grip of Islamic State (IS) gave many Iraqis hope that lessons would be learnt about the repeated failures which gave rise to IS, and that those in power would take sincere steps to reform. But that hope has been diminishing every day.

The most recent protests came in the wake of multiple smaller demonstrations by different groups, including PhD graduates, doctors and engineers in September 2019.

They followed government actions that caused widespread anger. Impoverished people were outraged at a recent state campaign to destroy unlicensed properties and market stalls across Iraq, leaving many homeless and jobless.

It also followed the removal of a key general, Abdul Wahab Al Saadi, from his position as commander of the Counter-Terrorism Service, followed by his demotion to a lower post at the Ministry of Defence. The marginalisation of a figure admired for his role in the military campaign against IS enraged many Iraqis.

The new generation want a homeland. “We want a respected homeland,” and “I am taking to the streets to get my right,” were among the slogans on display during the protests. “The issue is not about water or electricity, but about a homeland,” shouted another protester.

Violent crackdown
The immediate crackdown of the protests has surprised, shocked, and shaken Iraqis. The suppression turned a protest about anti-corruption and unemployment into an uprising against the status quo and what participants see as foreign interference, particularly from Iran.

Tear gas, live ammunition, and snipers were used to quell the protesters. As one protestor put it: “They did things to us they never did to IS. They beat and insulted us. They used live fire and grenades. What have we done? All what we are asking for are our rights and all people’s rights.” The protestor’s words were used as the opening of a new rap song titled “Iran’s tails” released in the wake of the crackdown by an Iraqi expat in solidarity with the demonstrators.




Edited by SirTripAlot (10/11/19 09:04 PM)


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26246243 - 10/11/19 09:49 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

When was the last time US regime change has benefitted a country?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26246293 - 10/11/19 10:34 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Not denying that. It seems the populace is not impacted by military engagements compared to the past.(unless your a vet)


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #26246324 - 10/11/19 11:20 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Too many, as you euphemistically say, "military engagements", and too little time.

By time I mean opportunity at home. People are working their asses off just to stay above water. Nobody has the time or the energy to care about the brown people we bomb.

It's the American way. Right now I work with a machine that costs approximately 1.5 million dollars, and I do about 200,000$ in medical tests per day, according to billing. I make just over six figures a year. Counting the hundred or so employees that work in the same office--five are doctors, the rest are nurses and support staff. The doctors probably clear 200k each, minimum. Support staff average maybe 50-60/yr.

That leaves a lot of money on the table. Of course, just because we bill insurance 2k per test doesn't mean insurance pays 2k per test. Depending on the size of the company and the number of patients, that number can get haggled down to as little as $100, probably less.

Point is, even our accountants couldn't tell ya where the money goes. The numbers don't even matter half the time. Nobody knows what the fuck is going on, even at home. Why would we care about what's happening abroad?


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26246344 - 10/11/19 11:53 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Nice description.

I get it, no one gonna protest in the little time they have. I fall in that camp. What about even a sense of loss? Because the US will eventually loose a total of 3 trillion dollars for that war. Maybe its me, but it seems Hong Kong gets different coverage?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26246366 - 10/12/19 12:21 AM (8 months, 24 days ago)

US will lose a lot more than 3T. We're gonna be paying for that war, in one way or another, for the next 75 years. Probably 100, maybe 125, depending on human lifespan in the future. How much does Vietnam shape our current perceptions?

Hong Kong isn't getting different coverage. It's getting distant coverage. It's far away. Nobody is involved in the specifics. Protests at home aren't "freedom versus tyranny". They're messy affairs, with dozens of groups involved, all with slightly different ideologies, and more importantly, neighbors that participate. Hong Kong is far enough away that it's a pretty simply red v blue. Nobody knows anyone personally.

Same reason that high schools don't teach US history past the 1970s. Not in detail, at least. We dive deep into the causes and effects of WWII, the bomb, the space race, maybe even Korea. But right around Vietnam, things start getting fuzzy. That's because you've got parents with opposing viewpoints. Teaching one side will piss the other side off.

Same thing in Iraq. Much like the war, it's far away. None of use know the little tiny bullshit details, they're all just protesters versus government.

Of course, we had similar protests not that long ago. BLM, Antifa. Same exact protests, same exact reasons to protest. The local protests were quashed quite effectively.

EDIT: I expect that Tiananmen is going to be discussed in China sometime around 2050. ish.


Edited by Kryptos (10/12/19 12:30 AM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26246534 - 10/12/19 05:04 AM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
It seems the populace is not impacted by military engagements compared to the past.(unless your a vet)




Some people don't seem to understand how lucky we are and how easily it can all crumble.

Thank you for your service SirTripAlot :super:


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 4
    #26246939 - 10/12/19 09:34 AM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Yes. Hong Kong definitely gets different coverage. We are concerned when oppression is caused by communists. Everywhere else we usually have a hand in the oppression.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26247333 - 10/12/19 12:32 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26247387 - 10/12/19 12:59 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

America did not invade Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people.  It was an excess of post 9-11 anger and military funding.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247391 - 10/12/19 01:03 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

The Roman Empire did exactly the same kind of stuff right before it imploded.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26247394 - 10/12/19 01:04 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

The Roman Empire failed due to addopting Christianity.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26247407 - 10/12/19 01:08 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Afaik, that's not commonly offered as an explanation by academics.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26247709 - 10/12/19 03:25 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

It is the consensus that Rome adopted Christanity and became less militarily active, falling to barbarians.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247795 - 10/12/19 03:50 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

No.
Actually, in a way that is true.
By the time Arminius kicked legion ass in germany, it was hard to find actual citizens willing to enlist or even report when drafted despite stiff penalties


Edited by ballsalsa (10/12/19 03:52 PM)


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247968 - 10/12/19 04:54 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
The Roman Empire failed due to addopting Christianity.




Rome adopting Christianity as a state religion was a symptom, not the cause. The adoption of Christianity was supposed to put the people back on their side for one last hurrah. The people were already disillusioned with the 1% and the hoarding of wealth that caused the collapse.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26247973 - 10/12/19 04:55 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

It's speculative conjecture.

An empire is the people, not the 1%.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247985 - 10/12/19 04:59 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

An empire is not the people. An empire is an army.

The people is a government.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26247991 - 10/12/19 05:01 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Not always.

Government is select people with massive power.  An army is people is a structure of power that benefits few people with massive power.

Either way an empire is an illusion of people assuming who has power.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248227 - 10/12/19 06:56 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Still would like to hear specific reasons why the disenchantment.

Lets say somone wronged you monetarily in the amount of over $6,000. I am stricly speaking of financial harm. Now, lets say the government wronged you the same amount (thats what the US population owes, per person for Iraq.).

The outrage is not comparable? Is it due to the immediacy of the monetary impact?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War#Indirect_and_delayed_costs


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (10/12/19 06:59 PM)


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248234 - 10/12/19 07:00 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Iraq is always at war with inner and external elements.  The US invasion upset the stability that a dictator perhaps not entirely favorable preformed.  The damage from the war on minds plus the action that Iraq serves for the US has taken and impossible toll.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248242 - 10/12/19 07:03 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?






I honestly don’t see any coverage of this. I first heard of the protests on this site the other day. I still wouldn’t know anything about it if not for this thread and link which I’m checking out now


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X]
    #26248246 - 10/12/19 07:07 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

It is a US national embaressment.  Our public has largely been uninvolved and disinterested if not shocked by the Iraq war.  We've been in the dark.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26248282 - 10/12/19 07:22 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

I agree with everything everybody has said here, but I’m powerless to stop corruption in my own country how can I possibly help Iraq’s?


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26248293 - 10/12/19 07:27 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

By helping make a small difference in how you see and influence.  How a people are a govt must come to terms with, then how a govt may hopefully conduct themselves.

Sadly all things are much greater than us, no matter the scale.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248382 - 10/12/19 08:07 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Still would like to hear specific reasons why the disenchantment.





What do you mean? The disenchantment of the citizens of the US?

Kinda hard to stay positive and believe the people in charge when you do what they say and they get the results.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26248396 - 10/12/19 08:15 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

I think he means ine Iraqi disenchantment.  Honestly Iraq hasn't had much enchantment.  America didn't bless Iraq with any magical power.  Modern Iraq was created for a regional power to make the best and as a utility of the US.

Iraq isn't known for a highly empathetic governing force


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26248404 - 10/12/19 08:21 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Iraqi disenchantment is for exactly the same reason: Everybody is working harder and somehow becoming poorer, while a few people have become insanely rich insanely quickly.

The US carpet bombing the country over the last two decades didn't help, either.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26248412 - 10/12/19 08:27 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

They didn't carpet bomb as it is outdated with smart weapons.

But yes it is effecient for US to buy off a few than the majority.  That is our global situation summed up.  It requires far less thought.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26248477 - 10/12/19 09:17 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

If I was unclear,

1. American taxpayers
foots Iraq bill...we all owe $6000 individually. Protests dont matter; fiscal debt doesn't matter. What does matter?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248483 - 10/12/19 09:21 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Still would like to hear specific reasons why the disenchantment.





Possibly it's a trip into the Twilight Zone that most people can't handle, can't process and purposely choose to ignore.

The length of the conflict, the events leading up to it, the politics, the death... it's probably too much.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248678 - 10/12/19 11:28 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If I was unclear,

1. American taxpayers
foots Iraq bill...we all owe $6000 individually. Protests dont matter; fiscal debt doesn't matter. What does matter?




Country-level debt doesn't matter. Personal debt matters directly, because it's simply easier to conduct all business through a standardized medium of exchange.

Public debt, or government debt, doesn't have the same effect. A country doesn't have a (more or less) fixed lifespan, and therefore can, in theory, operate a bit like a pyramid scheme, eternally using loans to pay off debt obligations. Next, since a country has control over the creation of currency, it could theoretically just print money to cover the debt. Of course, this has significant potential drawbacks as far as inflation.

What matters a lot more is debt-to-GDP ratio, which tells you if a country is able to pay off its debt. An imperfect comparison would be a mortgage--Yes, you have a massive debt liability in terms of owing money for your house, but if you are employed and able to pay off the monthly payments, then you are in a good place.

Finally, the idea that "every citizen" owns the debt of the country is flawed as well. Only people that have bonds own the debt of the country. I think it would be more correct to say that the more money you have, the more public debt you own, as that currency represents a potential obligation.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26248854 - 10/13/19 01:55 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
When was the last time US regime change has benefitted a country?  :shrug:




*Thinks about it*

:hank:

I wish I could actually answer this question.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26249305 - 10/13/19 08:55 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

I agree with alot of what was said. Personal debt has more immediacy and impact on people while taxation is a parasitic drip drip drip from people over time. Until your average citizen cannot handle the taxation waged, there would be no uproar; people continuine thier life unabated. These type of "engagements" will soon add up, at sometime, the bill will have to be paid.

This is in stark contrast to the WW2 cards(the "Sugarbook") Americans were issued for rationing. In this instance, the population feels a tangible loss or hardship. Obviously, there is a closer personal/national connection to a war when this occurs.

So unless this taxation gets to an unmanageable level and or rationing occurs, the average Joe has no specific connection to a war. One has to either be in the military or have a family member in, to feel something.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26249328 - 10/13/19 09:05 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?






I honestly don’t see any coverage of this. I first heard of the protests on this site the other day. I still wouldn’t know anything about it if not for this thread and link which I’m checking out now




I also am not hearing about this. What I keep reading is pulling out of Syria will revitalize ISIS there. IDK, I haven't kept up enough to make an argument. About the only good thing I could eve say about Trump is that he wants to pull out of these Middle Eastern involvements. I like that idea in the long run, but the generals, the right and most of the other establishment figures think it's a bad idea. Definitely will take time to tell.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26249399 - 10/13/19 09:48 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

It's an impossible decision. That's what happens when you start fucking around militarily in the Middle East. The time comes when you have to own your actions. It becomes very difficult to leave.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26249465 - 10/13/19 10:33 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Our involvement in Iraq and Iran imo hasn’t helped those countries. I say that with the utmost respect and gratitude to our service men and women who fought as well as their families who sacrifice a great deal and are often overlooked and not part of the conversation. That’s not easy to say but

Our government has been eyeballing those countries since I was a little boy and they’ve had their way there. Is anybody better off? The lines are blurred. I just don’t know


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X]
    #26249470 - 10/13/19 10:36 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

It's as much those that pull the trigger as those giving orders.

I get that millions of young hopefulls joined up after the 9-11 propaganda thinking they'd be worshipped.  Only to invade Iraq in an illegal war.


--------------------
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In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26249541 - 10/13/19 11:10 AM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Americans have Iraq fatigue.

Re: IS...we should have made a plan to deal with the, what, 10K, 12K? prisoners more permanently than sloughing it off on a people that don't even have a country, the Kurds, and THEN make our exit.

Agree with Brian Jones that just about the one and only thing I can credit Donald with is drawing down and ending our ME involvement, but gawdammit dont cut and run while leaving the Kurds to eat an Isis shit sandwich.  Such bullshit. Edit: not to mention leaving the Kurds' asses dangling in the breeze for turkey to punch holes in.


Edited by relic (10/13/19 11:12 AM)


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: relic] * 1
    #26249689 - 10/13/19 12:13 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Maybe the kurds will finally learn not to trust us.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #26249880 - 10/13/19 02:02 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Citizen X said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?






I honestly don’t see any coverage of this. I first heard of the protests on this site the other day. I still wouldn’t know anything about it if not for this thread and link which I’m checking out now




I also am not hearing about this. What I keep reading is pulling out of Syria will revitalize ISIS there. IDK, I haven't kept up enough to make an argument. About the only good thing I could eve say about Trump is that he wants to pull out of these Middle Eastern involvements. I like that idea in the long run, but the generals, the right and most of the other establishment figures think it's a bad idea. Definitely will take time to tell.




Long term, pulling out of the ME is a good thing, as long as we can stay out. Short term, we've basically done the equivalent of a fresh new MBA that comes in with great ideas, tears everything down to start from scratch, realizes shit's complicated, and walks out without even rebuilding back to the point where it was before.

Pulling out right now simply fucks everyone. It reverses everything we've done (see, ISIS fighters escaping Kurdish prisons--first few thousand escapees reported on today), and it leaves a bunch of destroyed countries that are easy pickings for a totalitarian movement and sectarian violence.

What was the right solution? Significant society-building. We needed to stay and stabilize what needed to be stabilized, and we should have used political means to ensure the creation of a Kurdish country that was capable of defending itself. This would have taken decades.

What's the next best solution? Leave, and don't come back. This means that when the next terrorist attacks are carried out by ISIS, we need to roll with it instead of deciding to blow everything up again. And there will be more terrorist attacks. We've made a whole lot of new enemies that would love to hurt the US.

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Maybe the kurds will finally learn not to trust us.




They never did trust us. They had no choice. It's like the poor person taking out another payday loan. Yeah, they know they're getting fucked, but option B is no food.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26250201 - 10/13/19 04:53 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

From the commander of the Kurds:

Quote:

When the whole world failed to support us, the United States extended its hands. We shook hands and appreciated its generous support. At Washington’s request, we agreed to withdraw our heavy weapons from the border area with Turkey, destroy our defensive fortifications, and pull back our most seasoned fighters. Turkey would never attack us so long as the U.S. government was true to its word with us.

We are now standing with our chests bare to face the Turkish knives.

President Donald Trump has been promising for a long time to withdraw U.S. troops. We understand and sympathize. Fathers want to see their children laughing on their laps, lovers want to hear the voices of their partners whispering to them, everyone wants to go back to their homes.

We, however, are not asking for American soldiers to be in combat. We know that the United States is not the world police. But we do want the United States to acknowledge its important role in achieving a political solution for Syria. We are sure that Washington has sufficient leverage to mediate a sustainable peace between us and Turkey.

We believe in democracy as a core concept, but in light of the invasion by Turkey and the existential threat its attack poses for our people, we may have to reconsider our alliances. The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection. We do not trust their promises. To be honest, it is hard to know whom to trust.




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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26250224 - 10/13/19 05:00 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection.



I wonder what those proposals are.


--------------------
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26250269 - 10/13/19 05:27 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
From the commander of the Kurds:

Quote:

When the whole world failed to support us, the United States extended its hands. We shook hands and appreciated its generous support. At Washington’s request, we agreed to withdraw our heavy weapons from the border area with Turkey, destroy our defensive fortifications, and pull back our most seasoned fighters. Turkey would never attack us so long as the U.S. government was true to its word with us.

We are now standing with our chests bare to face the Turkish knives.

President Donald Trump has been promising for a long time to withdraw U.S. troops. We understand and sympathize. Fathers want to see their children laughing on their laps, lovers want to hear the voices of their partners whispering to them, everyone wants to go back to their homes.

We, however, are not asking for American soldiers to be in combat. We know that the United States is not the world police. But we do want the United States to acknowledge its important role in achieving a political solution for Syria. We are sure that Washington has sufficient leverage to mediate a sustainable peace between us and Turkey.

We believe in democracy as a core concept, but in light of the invasion by Turkey and the existential threat its attack poses for our people, we may have to reconsider our alliances. The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection. We do not trust their promises. To be honest, it is hard to know whom to trust.







A powerful statement


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X]
    #26250277 - 10/13/19 05:31 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Why are The Kurds so disliked?

Isn't that who Saddam gased?


--------------------
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26250325 - 10/13/19 05:56 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
The Russians and the Syrian regime have made proposals that could save the lives of millions of people who live under our protection.



I wonder what those proposals are.




I'm guessing military aid. Seems to be the most direct assistance possible in this case.

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Why are The Kurds so disliked?

Isn't that who Saddam gased?




Yes. People don't like them because they are quite diverse and include a good number of Christians. Further, they are a minority in every country they reside in, which makes them very easy targets for random violence and government scapegoating.

Just like literally any other minority.

---

Speaking of random protests we've never heard of, the Ecuadorian Army just got deployed to help stop the protests in Ecuador. The official US stance is that "Dialogue and respect for rule of law are core democratic values and the best way for the people of Ecuador to enjoy greater economic prosperity" and that the United States deplored "violence as a form of political protest".

Apparently Ecuadorians aren't too happy that the guy they elected on a democratic socialist platform decided that the best way to go was to remove regulations on the wealthy and banks, to impose fiscal austerity, and to create an arm of government law enforcement which is not bound by the constitution and is in charge of "evaluating authorities and judges".

Oh, and he also decided to back out of local agreements with Venezuela, to buy a bunch of US guns and helicopters, and to revoke Assange's asylum, conveniently after meeting with Mike Pence.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26250362 - 10/13/19 06:17 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Why are The Kurds so disliked?



I believe they want their own country, much like the Jews once did, but who's going to give it to them?


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26250406 - 10/13/19 06:36 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

They has their own country between 1920-1923, before Turkey seized it by military force.

They also had their own pseudo-state within Iraq between 1992-2003 which, while technically part of Iraq, had an independent government and parliament.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26250502 - 10/13/19 07:37 PM (8 months, 23 days ago)

Glad to see its not just me that sees the lack of coverage...my bias may shine through a lttle, though. You would think the major Hong Kong coverage would automatically pick up another protest where 100 died and many injured. (Estimated 6,000)


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (10/13/19 07:43 PM)


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26419982 - 01/06/20 08:29 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:

The crackdown by security forces that followed left more than 100 people dead and thousands more injured. Iraqi president Barham Salih condemned the crackdown in a televised speech on October 7, claiming that orders to shoot at the protesters weren’t made by the state or its apparatus. The interior ministry ordered an investigation into the deaths.

Yet, Salih’s statement raised questions about who is actually running the Iraqi state. And despite his and international condemnation, the crackdown continues on the ground.

--------

It also followed the removal of a key general, Abdul Wahab Al Saadi, from his position as commander of the Counter-Terrorism Service, followed by his demotion to a lower post at the Ministry of Defence. The marginalisation of a figure admired for his role in the military campaign against IS enraged many Iraqis.

-----------

Violent crackdown
The immediate crackdown of the protests has surprised, shocked, and shaken Iraqis. The suppression turned a protest about anti-corruption and unemployment into an uprising against the status quo and what participants see as foreign interference, particularly from Iran.

-----------

They used live fire and grenades. What have we done? All what we are asking for are our rights and all people’s rights.”






Worth a bump seeing as Iran just got belted

Removal of Abdul Wahab Al Saadi


Edited by Stable Genius (01/06/20 08:43 PM)


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Stable Genius] * 3
    #26420117 - 01/06/20 09:51 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Yes, this is the other powder keg. Iran is ready to start another, new type of proxy war in Iraq . The Shia would jump at that (thats about 70% of Iraq).

From your link:

"The root causes of grievances in Iraq have never been addressed; when heavily armed and trained fighters return home to a lack of jobs and housing in a country suffering from widespread corruption, that is a recipe for civil unrest."


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26420142 - 01/06/20 10:18 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Well, Trump isn't jumping at the opportunity to bring the troops home and get out of these forever wars. 

He really wants to keep the troops deployed.  He leveraged Iraq with devastating sanctions should they dare to exercise sovereignty on this issue.

And they are sending more.

Fort Bragg, North Carolina (CNN)More than 3,000 service members are set to be deployed to the Middle East as tensions rise following the killing of an Iranian general by the United States.

I don't know what it's going to take for some people to wake up to who the fuck this psychopathic liar really is.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26420510 - 01/07/20 07:48 AM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.





I too was forced to leave a piece of my soul in the deserts of Jordan. The vendors at Petra are merciless. I was compelled to buy multiple small figurines and a metal incense burner. I was lucky to escape with my life.

:rofl:

But seriously, Petra is amazing. I loved all of Jordan.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: waves]
    #26421523 - 01/07/20 05:05 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

Jordan was one of the roughest schools in the LAUSD.  My time there was not enjoyable.


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26421551 - 01/07/20 05:19 PM (5 months, 30 days ago)

How awesome is it going to be for Russia if we file out of there and leave a noce power vacuum for them to take advantage of?


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