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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248234 - 10/12/19 07:00 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Iraq is always at war with inner and external elements.  The US invasion upset the stability that a dictator perhaps not entirely favorable preformed.  The damage from the war on minds plus the action that Iraq serves for the US has taken and impossible toll.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248242 - 10/12/19 07:03 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?






I honestly don’t see any coverage of this. I first heard of the protests on this site the other day. I still wouldn’t know anything about it if not for this thread and link which I’m checking out now


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X]
    #26248246 - 10/12/19 07:07 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

It is a US national embaressment.  Our public has largely been uninvolved and disinterested if not shocked by the Iraq war.  We've been in the dark.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26248282 - 10/12/19 07:22 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

I agree with everything everybody has said here, but I’m powerless to stop corruption in my own country how can I possibly help Iraq’s?


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26248293 - 10/12/19 07:27 PM (8 months, 28 days ago)

By helping make a small difference in how you see and influence.  How a people are a govt must come to terms with, then how a govt may hopefully conduct themselves.

Sadly all things are much greater than us, no matter the scale.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248382 - 10/12/19 08:07 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Still would like to hear specific reasons why the disenchantment.





What do you mean? The disenchantment of the citizens of the US?

Kinda hard to stay positive and believe the people in charge when you do what they say and they get the results.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26248396 - 10/12/19 08:15 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

I think he means ine Iraqi disenchantment.  Honestly Iraq hasn't had much enchantment.  America didn't bless Iraq with any magical power.  Modern Iraq was created for a regional power to make the best and as a utility of the US.

Iraq isn't known for a highly empathetic governing force


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26248404 - 10/12/19 08:21 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Iraqi disenchantment is for exactly the same reason: Everybody is working harder and somehow becoming poorer, while a few people have become insanely rich insanely quickly.

The US carpet bombing the country over the last two decades didn't help, either.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26248412 - 10/12/19 08:27 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

They didn't carpet bomb as it is outdated with smart weapons.

But yes it is effecient for US to buy off a few than the majority.  That is our global situation summed up.  It requires far less thought.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26248477 - 10/12/19 09:17 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

If I was unclear,

1. American taxpayers
foots Iraq bill...we all owe $6000 individually. Protests dont matter; fiscal debt doesn't matter. What does matter?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248483 - 10/12/19 09:21 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Still would like to hear specific reasons why the disenchantment.





Possibly it's a trip into the Twilight Zone that most people can't handle, can't process and purposely choose to ignore.

The length of the conflict, the events leading up to it, the politics, the death... it's probably too much.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248678 - 10/12/19 11:28 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If I was unclear,

1. American taxpayers
foots Iraq bill...we all owe $6000 individually. Protests dont matter; fiscal debt doesn't matter. What does matter?




Country-level debt doesn't matter. Personal debt matters directly, because it's simply easier to conduct all business through a standardized medium of exchange.

Public debt, or government debt, doesn't have the same effect. A country doesn't have a (more or less) fixed lifespan, and therefore can, in theory, operate a bit like a pyramid scheme, eternally using loans to pay off debt obligations. Next, since a country has control over the creation of currency, it could theoretically just print money to cover the debt. Of course, this has significant potential drawbacks as far as inflation.

What matters a lot more is debt-to-GDP ratio, which tells you if a country is able to pay off its debt. An imperfect comparison would be a mortgage--Yes, you have a massive debt liability in terms of owing money for your house, but if you are employed and able to pay off the monthly payments, then you are in a good place.

Finally, the idea that "every citizen" owns the debt of the country is flawed as well. Only people that have bonds own the debt of the country. I think it would be more correct to say that the more money you have, the more public debt you own, as that currency represents a potential obligation.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26248854 - 10/13/19 01:55 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
When was the last time US regime change has benefitted a country?  :shrug:




*Thinks about it*

:hank:

I wish I could actually answer this question.


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26249305 - 10/13/19 08:55 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

I agree with alot of what was said. Personal debt has more immediacy and impact on people while taxation is a parasitic drip drip drip from people over time. Until your average citizen cannot handle the taxation waged, there would be no uproar; people continuine thier life unabated. These type of "engagements" will soon add up, at sometime, the bill will have to be paid.

This is in stark contrast to the WW2 cards(the "Sugarbook") Americans were issued for rationing. In this instance, the population feels a tangible loss or hardship. Obviously, there is a closer personal/national connection to a war when this occurs.

So unless this taxation gets to an unmanageable level and or rationing occurs, the average Joe has no specific connection to a war. One has to either be in the military or have a family member in, to feel something.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X] * 1
    #26249328 - 10/13/19 09:05 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?






I honestly don’t see any coverage of this. I first heard of the protests on this site the other day. I still wouldn’t know anything about it if not for this thread and link which I’m checking out now




I also am not hearing about this. What I keep reading is pulling out of Syria will revitalize ISIS there. IDK, I haven't kept up enough to make an argument. About the only good thing I could eve say about Trump is that he wants to pull out of these Middle Eastern involvements. I like that idea in the long run, but the generals, the right and most of the other establishment figures think it's a bad idea. Definitely will take time to tell.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26249399 - 10/13/19 09:48 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

It's an impossible decision. That's what happens when you start fucking around militarily in the Middle East. The time comes when you have to own your actions. It becomes very difficult to leave.


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InvisibleCitizen X
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #26249465 - 10/13/19 10:33 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Our involvement in Iraq and Iran imo hasn’t helped those countries. I say that with the utmost respect and gratitude to our service men and women who fought as well as their families who sacrifice a great deal and are often overlooked and not part of the conversation. That’s not easy to say but

Our government has been eyeballing those countries since I was a little boy and they’ve had their way there. Is anybody better off? The lines are blurred. I just don’t know


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Citizen X]
    #26249470 - 10/13/19 10:36 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

It's as much those that pull the trigger as those giving orders.

I get that millions of young hopefulls joined up after the 9-11 propaganda thinking they'd be worshipped.  Only to invade Iraq in an illegal war.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26249541 - 10/13/19 11:10 AM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Americans have Iraq fatigue.

Re: IS...we should have made a plan to deal with the, what, 10K, 12K? prisoners more permanently than sloughing it off on a people that don't even have a country, the Kurds, and THEN make our exit.

Agree with Brian Jones that just about the one and only thing I can credit Donald with is drawing down and ending our ME involvement, but gawdammit dont cut and run while leaving the Kurds to eat an Isis shit sandwich.  Such bullshit. Edit: not to mention leaving the Kurds' asses dangling in the breeze for turkey to punch holes in.


Edited by relic (10/13/19 11:12 AM)


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: relic] * 1
    #26249689 - 10/13/19 12:13 PM (8 months, 27 days ago)

Maybe the kurds will finally learn not to trust us.


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