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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Iraq protests * 3
    #26246160 - 10/11/19 09:00 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Have you heard of them? 100 dead in about a week. About to get real honest here; a piece of my soul/essence/ consciousness  was lost in the Middle East( while in Jordon me and my buddie did our own  unauthorized recon of Petra, patroling in the boiling day, cold at night,and war)....so there is a personal connection for me. I shudder when I see sand blow to this day.

There seems to be a total lack of American empathy/awareness of Iraq....which flys in the face of American bloodshed and the money spent......Why is that?

Source Article:

https://theconversation.com/violent-crackdown-against-iraq-protests-exposes-fallacy-of-the-countrys-democracy-124830


When Muhanad Habib, a 22-year-old Iraqi from the Sadr City district of Baghdad, posted on Facebook in late September, he probably didn’t imagine that his demands for a better life and basic rights would be met with bullets.

It will be a huge and angry public revolution in Baghdad … We will take to the streets protesting … Enough silence about what’s going on in Iraq. We cannot just watch Iraq being destroyed when we have armies of jobless and poor.

This was how it all started. Angry youth from Baghdad took to the streets. Unaffiliated with any political party or with well-known activists, the protesters – the majority of whom were born in the late 1990s or early 2000s – despaired about any prospect for change in Iraq.

The crackdown by security forces that followed left more than 100 people dead and thousands more injured. Iraqi president Barham Salih condemned the crackdown in a televised speech on October 7, claiming that orders to shoot at the protesters weren’t made by the state or its apparatus. The interior ministry ordered an investigation into the deaths.

Yet, Salih’s statement raised questions about who is actually running the Iraqi state. And despite his and international condemnation, the crackdown continues on the ground.

Calls for a homeland
Endemic corruption, unemployment, flawed institutions and poor public services linger in Iraq and have prompted protests since 2011, including notably in Basra in 2018. The recapture of Iraqi lands from the grip of Islamic State (IS) gave many Iraqis hope that lessons would be learnt about the repeated failures which gave rise to IS, and that those in power would take sincere steps to reform. But that hope has been diminishing every day.

The most recent protests came in the wake of multiple smaller demonstrations by different groups, including PhD graduates, doctors and engineers in September 2019.

They followed government actions that caused widespread anger. Impoverished people were outraged at a recent state campaign to destroy unlicensed properties and market stalls across Iraq, leaving many homeless and jobless.

It also followed the removal of a key general, Abdul Wahab Al Saadi, from his position as commander of the Counter-Terrorism Service, followed by his demotion to a lower post at the Ministry of Defence. The marginalisation of a figure admired for his role in the military campaign against IS enraged many Iraqis.

The new generation want a homeland. “We want a respected homeland,” and “I am taking to the streets to get my right,” were among the slogans on display during the protests. “The issue is not about water or electricity, but about a homeland,” shouted another protester.

Violent crackdown
The immediate crackdown of the protests has surprised, shocked, and shaken Iraqis. The suppression turned a protest about anti-corruption and unemployment into an uprising against the status quo and what participants see as foreign interference, particularly from Iran.

Tear gas, live ammunition, and snipers were used to quell the protesters. As one protestor put it: “They did things to us they never did to IS. They beat and insulted us. They used live fire and grenades. What have we done? All what we are asking for are our rights and all people’s rights.” The protestor’s words were used as the opening of a new rap song titled “Iran’s tails” released in the wake of the crackdown by an Iraqi expat in solidarity with the demonstrators.




Edited by SirTripAlot (10/11/19 09:04 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26246243 - 10/11/19 09:49 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

When was the last time US regime change has benefitted a country?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26246293 - 10/11/19 10:34 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Not denying that. It seems the populace is not impacted by military engagements compared to the past.(unless your a vet)


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #26246324 - 10/11/19 11:20 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Too many, as you euphemistically say, "military engagements", and too little time.

By time I mean opportunity at home. People are working their asses off just to stay above water. Nobody has the time or the energy to care about the brown people we bomb.

It's the American way. Right now I work with a machine that costs approximately 1.5 million dollars, and I do about 200,000$ in medical tests per day, according to billing. I make just over six figures a year. Counting the hundred or so employees that work in the same office--five are doctors, the rest are nurses and support staff. The doctors probably clear 200k each, minimum. Support staff average maybe 50-60/yr.

That leaves a lot of money on the table. Of course, just because we bill insurance 2k per test doesn't mean insurance pays 2k per test. Depending on the size of the company and the number of patients, that number can get haggled down to as little as $100, probably less.

Point is, even our accountants couldn't tell ya where the money goes. The numbers don't even matter half the time. Nobody knows what the fuck is going on, even at home. Why would we care about what's happening abroad?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #26246344 - 10/11/19 11:53 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Nice description.

I get it, no one gonna protest in the little time they have. I fall in that camp. What about even a sense of loss? Because the US will eventually loose a total of 3 trillion dollars for that war. Maybe its me, but it seems Hong Kong gets different coverage?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26246366 - 10/12/19 12:21 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

US will lose a lot more than 3T. We're gonna be paying for that war, in one way or another, for the next 75 years. Probably 100, maybe 125, depending on human lifespan in the future. How much does Vietnam shape our current perceptions?

Hong Kong isn't getting different coverage. It's getting distant coverage. It's far away. Nobody is involved in the specifics. Protests at home aren't "freedom versus tyranny". They're messy affairs, with dozens of groups involved, all with slightly different ideologies, and more importantly, neighbors that participate. Hong Kong is far enough away that it's a pretty simply red v blue. Nobody knows anyone personally.

Same reason that high schools don't teach US history past the 1970s. Not in detail, at least. We dive deep into the causes and effects of WWII, the bomb, the space race, maybe even Korea. But right around Vietnam, things start getting fuzzy. That's because you've got parents with opposing viewpoints. Teaching one side will piss the other side off.

Same thing in Iraq. Much like the war, it's far away. None of use know the little tiny bullshit details, they're all just protesters versus government.

Of course, we had similar protests not that long ago. BLM, Antifa. Same exact protests, same exact reasons to protest. The local protests were quashed quite effectively.

EDIT: I expect that Tiananmen is going to be discussed in China sometime around 2050. ish.


Edited by Kryptos (10/12/19 12:30 AM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #26246534 - 10/12/19 05:04 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
It seems the populace is not impacted by military engagements compared to the past.(unless your a vet)




Some people don't seem to understand how lucky we are and how easily it can all crumble.

Thank you for your service SirTripAlot :super:


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot] * 4
    #26246939 - 10/12/19 09:34 AM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Yes. Hong Kong definitely gets different coverage. We are concerned when oppression is caused by communists. Everywhere else we usually have a hand in the oppression.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26247333 - 10/12/19 12:32 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26247387 - 10/12/19 12:59 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

America did not invade Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people.  It was an excess of post 9-11 anger and military funding.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247391 - 10/12/19 01:03 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

The Roman Empire did exactly the same kind of stuff right before it imploded.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26247394 - 10/12/19 01:04 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

The Roman Empire failed due to addopting Christianity.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #26247407 - 10/12/19 01:08 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Afaik, that's not commonly offered as an explanation by academics.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26247709 - 10/12/19 03:25 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

It is the consensus that Rome adopted Christanity and became less militarily active, falling to barbarians.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247795 - 10/12/19 03:50 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

No.
Actually, in a way that is true.
By the time Arminius kicked legion ass in germany, it was hard to find actual citizens willing to enlist or even report when drafted despite stiff penalties


Edited by ballsalsa (10/12/19 03:52 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247968 - 10/12/19 04:54 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
The Roman Empire failed due to addopting Christianity.




Rome adopting Christianity as a state religion was a symptom, not the cause. The adoption of Christianity was supposed to put the people back on their side for one last hurrah. The people were already disillusioned with the 1% and the hoarding of wealth that caused the collapse.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26247973 - 10/12/19 04:55 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

It's speculative conjecture.

An empire is the people, not the 1%.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26247985 - 10/12/19 04:59 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

An empire is not the people. An empire is an army.

The people is a government.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: Kryptos]
    #26247991 - 10/12/19 05:01 PM (8 months, 25 days ago)

Not always.

Government is select people with massive power.  An army is people is a structure of power that benefits few people with massive power.

Either way an empire is an illusion of people assuming who has power.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Iraq protests [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26248227 - 10/12/19 06:56 PM (8 months, 24 days ago)

Still would like to hear specific reasons why the disenchantment.

Lets say somone wronged you monetarily in the amount of over $6,000. I am stricly speaking of financial harm. Now, lets say the government wronged you the same amount (thats what the US population owes, per person for Iraq.).

The outrage is not comparable? Is it due to the immediacy of the monetary impact?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War#Indirect_and_delayed_costs


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (10/12/19 06:59 PM)


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