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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai]
    #26499940 - 02/23/20 01:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Some spiders are poisonous. Good parallel!

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai]
    #26499957 - 02/23/20 01:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nekai said:
No, because you can realize that and make a change, whether it be good or not. It's the lack of sympathy, which even if it's brain chemistry doesn't make it any less bad.

In the end it's all subatomic particles and natural law, which there is no morality on that level, it's all a construct from there forth. So what does any of it matter if you can't analyze and be objective about what's happening on the level with life. What level of reality are you going to focus on, which is hopefully the one you can change.




Sometimes a person can realize something and make a change. Sometimes they can't. Who is in control, or are things just happening?

I tend to see "subatomic particles" and the whole chemical idea (serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin) as a shallow, cold way of looking at things that doesn't explain our actual experience, though in a negative state it seems more acceptable an explanation. Perhaps this is because those negative states are seemingly void of experience other than pain while positive states are full of meaning and using chemicals to explain is like reducing a poem to numbers. Anger can have meaning... unfortunate when it get's so mixed up a person has trouble sorting things out, a lack of understanding makes for shallow perceptions, then it's along for the ride waiting for a trigger.

There are ideas, best practices, therapies, but there's no magic pill. Sometimes change happens. Sometimes it doesn't.

When it's all said and done, I don't know much. Empathy can be helpful and we can extend that to people we value, but I think empathy that's really useful requires understanding and we relate best to experience we are already familiar with. Precluding that there must be a willingness to share and foster understanding if one wants to be understood, and then there are the trust issues. Sometimes we must accept our ignorance and/or inability to affect change and see others as spiders. Good, bad or neither, people often want to harm, or can't help but harm. Better safe than sorry seems to be how people deal with things they don't understand. There's a lot of fear involved, repulsion, apprehensions. Sometimes it's all in the mind. Other times there are valid concerns. "Bad" is the underlying feeling towards others in all these situations. Regardless of how a situation resolves it seems best to see such feelings as subjective perceptions, being ignorant about the truth of the matter.


--------------------
rahz

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"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Rahz]
    #26500060 - 02/23/20 02:54 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The whole world desires to be happy, it desires security and peace, it longs for green pastures, but happiness must be earned. The stupid, the foolish and the selfish can never be happy. Any man who departs from wisdom departs from peace. A man who clings to the evils in him must suffer for his decision. It appears in this world that the evils flourish, but if we examine closely into their lives we shall see sorrow, misery, sickness and death. The law forbids that any man who is not intrinsically good shall enjoy either wisdom or peace. ~ Manly P. Hall (The Students Monthly Letter #5)


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]

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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Rahz]
    #26500242 - 02/23/20 05:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nekai said:
Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
Quote:

Nekai said:
I haven't read through most of this but I'd like to add, a bad person makes bad decisions when faced with the right way.

The question posed is so ridiculous, since unless you've been sheltered from existence of man you'll have to know that bad people do absolutely exist.

you're just getting high too much if you think otherwise, that or there's something wrong with your biology.

you don't need to sympathize with evil in attempt to negate it, you'll fall victim to its pathology.

, in my stoned opinion.





I highly disagree mate. People only do things as a result of their time thus far on earth. So that bully at school or the murderer in the street or the pedophile. Its brain chemistry + upbringing + society + environment = result. None of that you can control so therefore there is no good / evil.

I think we are just "on for the ride" and we have this belief in our head that "we" are making choices. We are just as destined to our futures as the water flowing out to the sea.




No, because you can realize that and make a change, whether it be good or not. It's the lack of sympathy, which even if it's brain chemistry doesn't make it any less bad.

In the end it's all subatomic particles and natural law, which there is no morality on that level, it's all a construct from there forth. So what does any of it matter if you can't analyze and be objective about what's happening on the level with life. What level of reality are you going to focus on, which is hopefully the one you can change.





What if having sex with more than 1 person in your lifetime was objectively bad? How can you "realize" it and make a change?

What if eating meat was bad?

What if owning things and not giving everything you earn away was bad?


Tell me what method of internal dialogue can you have will help you to fix these things?


This is the reality for the "bad" people in this world. To steal and to take that is the natural world for them. Imagine yourself in the deep end of a pool and drowning. Where are your morals then?


I dunno this convo is shit for me. Ive worked in some SHITTY places. Ive seen human nature first hand. You are wrong. I'm sorry I dont think theres any other way to think. Come try my job for a day and tell me what you can teach me.

The only thing helping the people I'm helping is me. And the "help" im giving them is just pulling them to my point of view because I believe my point of view creates a happier life overall.
Quote:

Rahz said:
You can think someone is bad without blaming them for being that way.

Perhaps it is fate that some will be good and some will be bad.




Yeah exactly. What a mastery of life you would have to have to be conscious of that at all times.

How come all these people on this thread dont understand? Isnt this the SHROOMERY for gods sake? I'm supposed to be the unenlightened one.

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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Oldnameforgotten] * 1
    #26500263 - 02/23/20 05:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Studying the teachings of the Messiah allows one to develop the internal dialogue necessary to overcome temptation

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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Hartford]
    #26500282 - 02/23/20 05:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Studying the teachings of the Messiah allows one to develop the internal dialogue necessary to overcome temptation



Tell that to catholic priests...


I really dont understand how this is even a topic. By definition, yes there are people that are "evil". I wouldnt label any other animal evil for their actions. There are completely abhorrent humans.

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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #26500285 - 02/23/20 06:00 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Temptation is a fascinating subject. The mind often encourages us to engage in harmful actions.

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InvisibleNekai
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Registered: 10/23/19
Posts: 87
Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #26500287 - 02/23/20 06:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten  said:
SWhat if having sex with more than 1 person in your lifetime was objectively bad? How can you "realize" it and make a change?

What if eating meat was bad?

What if owning things and not giving everything you earn away was bad?


Tell me what method of internal dialogue can you have will help you to fix these things?





Well, why don't you think about the consequences of your actions and make changes so those consequences don't manifest further, aka "Nip it in the bud"

Treat others the way you'd like to be treated, and don't accept people who willingly dig holes just to fall into them who then ask society for help.

The animal world used to take care of these excesses, the problematic, now they just fuck, leave a wake of havoc and use up public resources, it's a problem of society and may be what causes all society's to fall, historically.

Just my opinion.

Though, if you don't mind bad people, I'm sure they'd love a place to stay.


--------------------
G o o d  s p o r e s !

All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.

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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: The Influence]
    #26500294 - 02/23/20 06:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Influence said:

I really dont understand how this is even a topic. By definition, yes there are people that are "evil". I wouldnt label any other animal evil for their actions. There are completely abhorrent humans.




Have you ever committed "evil", or are you an anomaly of our species? We all cause suffering. 

Humans who engage in "abhorrent" behavior are experiencing deep pain and suffering. Should we condemn them as "evil" or have compassion for them? We cling to our craving to judge with an iron grip.

Edited by RJ Tubs 202 (02/23/20 06:07 PM)

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InvisibleNekai
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Posts: 87
Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26500325 - 02/23/20 06:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

The Influence said:

I really dont understand how this is even a topic. By definition, yes there are people that are "evil". I wouldnt label any other animal evil for their actions. There are completely abhorrent humans.




Have you ever committed "evil", or are you an anomaly of our species? We all cause suffering. 

Humans who engage in "abhorrent" behavior are experiencing deep pain and suffering. Should we condemn them as "evil" or have compassion for them? We cling to our craving to judge with an iron grip.




What if you help them, and they end up stealing from you, even though they don't need it, like what if they just can't take themselves from their victim mentality, which is a narcissistic disorder, and just feed themselves at the expense of others, and they use their victim mentality just to get ahead, then what.

Good people can do bad things, but it's the bad people who continually fuck the next man over that is what makes them bad, they don't have consideration or sympathy that has any practical merit.

Thought, let's not confuse good people in tough times with bad people all the time, even if they act good. You have to know their heart before you can make these kind of judgements, but for simplicity we're speaking in generalities, which can be wrong if interpreted poorly, so if you reading this, give people the benefit fo the doubt when it seems safe to do so, and if they fuck you, then now you know where they're coming from (a bad place). People don't automatically deserve sympathy, sometimes nature just spawns evil, directly or through environment, either way keep you guard up and don't give evil the room to grow.

We are the gardeners of humankind, and the shepherds of it's future. Just make sure to be observant and intelligent.

Random example, if a person has broken into my house and is violently trying to ransack the place, I can't say oh well maybe he's just having a bad day, and he is really a good guy, I need to react with the reality at hand, my life and my families life is jeopardy, what am I going to do to protect what I value, try to calmly reason with him and possibly get shot, or draw a gun and defend what is mine, ultimately it's the individuals call, but you really have to think practically about this shit.

people fuck, they make life, not all of it will be good, and where it's coming from will make the biggest difference in what path they'll be on.

That's why the value of marriage is so important in society.


--------------------
G o o d  s p o r e s !

All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.

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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26500359 - 02/23/20 06:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I have broken the laws of the United States. Do you mean evil things like: Hitler, Stalin, The Night Stalker, Casey Anthony, Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer etc.

Btw my crimes have been battery(though it was against people willing to fight), burglary (which may be a piece of shit move in my youth but i dont believe meets the standards of evil) and selling the marijuana.

Evil is a term which man came up with, and there are more people than I can name that fit the description.

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InvisibleNekai
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai] * 1
    #26500360 - 02/23/20 06:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Btw I'm half hearted about a lot of this, I'm being dramatic and extreme just to more easily get the essential point across.

But, People are good, but when they're not you need to know what course of action you can take to protect yourself & your values if needed.

Just shame bad behavior so at least the uneducated get a better sense of how they are affecting those around them, and those who do know better are at least uncomfortable about what liberties they take.

Be vocal, when it's appropriate.


--------------------
G o o d  s p o r e s !

All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.

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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai]
    #26500363 - 02/23/20 06:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nekai said:
Btw I'm half hearted about a lot of this, I'm being dramatic and extreme just to more easily get the essential point across.

But, People are good, but when they're not you need to know what course of action you can take to protect yourself & your values if needed.

Just shame bad behavior so at least the uneducated get a better sense of how they are affecting those around them, and those who do know better are at least uncomfortable about what liberties they take.

Be vocal, when it's appropriate.



Well the next time you or your family gets raped.....get really verbal and tell them how bad they are but not evil.

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InvisibleNekai
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: The Influence]
    #26500365 - 02/23/20 06:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Influence said:
I have broken the laws of the United States. Do you mean evil things like: Hitler, Stalin, The Night Stalker, Casey Anthony, Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer etc.

Btw my crimes have been battery(though it was against people willing to fight), burglary (which may be a piece of shit move in my youth but i dont believe meets the standards of evil) and selling the marijuana.

Evil is a term which man came up with, and there are more people than I can name that fit the description.




Sometimes it's necessary to break the law, it's a form of protest against corruption.

The burglary though, that could have been bad.


--------------------
G o o d  s p o r e s !

All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.

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InvisibleNekai
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Posts: 87
Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: The Influence]
    #26500367 - 02/23/20 06:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Influence said:
Quote:

Nekai said:
Btw I'm half hearted about a lot of this, I'm being dramatic and extreme just to more easily get the essential point across.

But, People are good, but when they're not you need to know what course of action you can take to protect yourself & your values if needed.

Just shame bad behavior so at least the uneducated get a better sense of how they are affecting those around them, and those who do know better are at least uncomfortable about what liberties they take.

Be vocal, when it's appropriate.



Well the next time you or your family gets raped.....get really verbal and tell them how bad they are but not evil.




yeah, maybe I'll just frown and they'll get the message.


--------------------
G o o d  s p o r e s !

All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.

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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai]
    #26500377 - 02/23/20 06:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nekai said:
Quote:

The Influence said:
I have broken the laws of the United States. Do you mean evil things like: Hitler, Stalin, The Night Stalker, Casey Anthony, Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer etc.

Btw my crimes have been battery(though it was against people willing to fight), burglary (which may be a piece of shit move in my youth but i dont believe meets the standards of evil) and selling the marijuana.

Evil is a term which man came up with, and there are more people than I can name that fit the description.




Sometimes it's necessary to break the law, it's a form of protest against corruption.

The burglary though, that could have been bad.



Yes stealing is a very low thing to do, and have not done it since. I work for what I have just like the people I took from. That in my opinion is learning from my mistake.
Quote:

Nekai said:
Quote:

The Influence said:
Quote:

Nekai said:
Btw I'm half hearted about a lot of this, I'm being dramatic and extreme just to more easily get the essential point across.

But, People are good, but when they're not you need to know what course of action you can take to protect yourself & your values if needed.

Just shame bad behavior so at least the uneducated get a better sense of how they are affecting those around them, and those who do know better are at least uncomfortable about what liberties they take.

Be vocal, when it's appropriate.



Well the next time you or your family gets raped.....get really verbal and tell them how bad they are but not evil.




yeah, maybe I'll just frown and they'll get the message.



My point was that there is a difference between bad and evil. A poor choice and a horrid one. I obviously hope that never comes upon you or your family, just trying to drive the point home. Shaming an "evil" person will not stop them, nor will vocalization.

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InvisibleNekai
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Posts: 87
Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: The Influence] * 1
    #26500388 - 02/23/20 07:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

To me evil is bad but bad is not always evil, it's like all vegetables are fruits but not all fruits are vegetables.

The shaming was more when degenerates do degenerate things in public.

Shaming evil would only serve to find out how evil they really are in relation to what I had expected up until then.

Trust me, I have zero tolerance for evil, thankfully most of what I've seen of evil has been documentations online.


--------------------
G o o d  s p o r e s !

All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.

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InvisibleNekai
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Registered: 10/23/19
Posts: 87
Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai] * 1
    #26500392 - 02/23/20 07:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

There's nothing wrong with a bad past along as it's been reconciled and the perpetrator has made amends, we're all creatures after all, so we can't help but be animalistic sometimes.


--------------------
G o o d  s p o r e s !

All posts are for research purposes only.
Feeling off? Take a break & try to get healthy. There's nothing wrong with being sober, it's actually the best thing.

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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai]
    #26500421 - 02/23/20 07:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

7

Edited by Oldnameforgotten (03/03/20 07:42 PM)

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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: Nekai]
    #26500424 - 02/23/20 07:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I am so sorry for the massive post. I cant communicate for shit anymore. I am hugely depressed and have a lot of issues. I havent been in a proper environment for a very long time.

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