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 Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
 
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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"He misuses fixed conventions by means of arbitrary substitutions or even reversals of names. If he does this in a selfish and moreover harmful manner, society will cease to trust him and will thereby exclude him. What men avoid by excluding the liar is not so much being defrauded as it is being harmed by means of fraud." (Nietzsche)
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (03/22/20 11:11 AM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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Paul Pierce Opens Up About Being Stabbed in 2000
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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Jung: "What if something goes wrong with the psyche?!"
be&fbclid=IwAR3QL8R-SLFvCDOqjG5O4cn4FTmbE33u8Q6PalyI6CSp7nzOJjN5Vs2AyM0
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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InnerWisdom
Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
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Calling people monsters and evil does not mean that they are only that. It is just a way of describing their behavior towards other people. If someone is horrible to others consistently, I have no problem calling them "bad" or "monster" or whatever as the description suits them. IMO it has nothing to do with them being not-human, but rather being different from others in a very negative way.
That being said, I believe psychopaths are mostly beyond helping, and should be treated as such, mainly to protect others from them.
Edited by InnerWisdom (03/22/20 03:04 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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 Re: Such thing as a bad person?  [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26551176 - 03/22/20 03:09 PM (4 years, 25 days ago) |
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Carl Jung & the Variations of Self (annihilating the enemy)
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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 laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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Alan likes the sound of his own voice.
Why make this whole business of good and evil so complicated?
It is simply because what humans can't face in themselves, they project onto others.
And dualistic mind control systems such as religions & governments encourage such thinking, for their own reasons: gaining followers in the case of religion, and in the case of governments, turning young men into soldiers and getting them to kill other young men they don't know, when ordered to do so. (so evil will be stopped (that someone else has decided who is evil, has escaped many (but not all) testosterone filled young men for thousands of years) ).
If a lion or wolf breaks into a person's dwelling, where their children & family are sleeping, & one has a gun, one shoots it. One does not waste time time calling the animal 'evil', or feeling guilty for killing a beautiful wild animal, and start to consider oneself 'bad'.
There must be, someplace or some time in the world, where some philosophy is useful, but mostly it is bullshit, and many practical folks intuitively know this.
Edited by laughingdog (03/25/20 09:29 PM)
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: laughingdog]
#26558472 - 03/26/20 06:34 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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5 Psychological Tricks Sociopaths Use To Manipulate You
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,175
Loc: USA 
Last seen: 5 days, 12 hours
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26558872 - 03/26/20 10:35 AM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
InnerWisdom said:
Calling people monsters and evil does not mean that they are only that. It is just a way of describing their behavior towards other people. If someone is horrible to others consistently, I have no problem calling them "bad" or "monster" or whatever as the description suits them. IMO it has nothing to do with them being not-human, but rather being different from others in a very negative way.
Since all people choose to engage in both good and harmful behaviors, why try to discriminate?
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#26559609 - 03/26/20 05:05 PM (4 years, 21 days ago) |
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Abusers control their victims by rendering their lives meaningless and inconsequential. The prey adopts the abuser's point of view: "You are nothing without me, unworthy trash, bad, sad, and mad". This kind of perpetual rejection and hurt often renders the abuser's judgment a self-fulfilling prophecy: CPTSD survivors are typically indistinguishable from patients with Borderline Personality Disorder in their impulsivity, recklessness, promiscuity, substance abuse, mood lability, and emotional dysregulation. Exposed to the abuser's grinding and relentless devaluation, his "intimate" partners and (in)significant others resort to vengeful and demonstrative self-trashing intended to hurt the perpetrator by debasing his "property".
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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InnerWisdom
Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26560623 - 03/27/20 07:01 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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I would say not all choose to engage in 'good' and 'bad' behavior in the same ratio. Also, psychopaths might not understand their behaviors as bad, or harmful to others and, because they Dont feel empathy or it is very low compared to typical people. And of course sadist will intentionally engage in 'bad' behavior because they like to see others suffer from their actions. You don't think the world is completely grey do you? Surely many things are subjectively white and others black.
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,175
Loc: USA
Last seen: 5 days, 12 hours
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26560882 - 03/27/20 10:25 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
InnerWisdom said:
You don't think the world is completely grey do you? Surely many things are subjectively white and others black.
If people's 'good' and 'bad' behavior ratio changes over time and varies from person to person, how do we establish the threshold for assigning the label "evil" human?
And, what we call "evil behavior" is more accurately called suffering. From the mass murderer to the serial rapist.
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InnerWisdom
Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26560893 - 03/27/20 10:31 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Of course such a threshold does not actually exist, and the label "evil person" is more down to a vote. It is a common opinion type of thing. Still, I think such people exist, not objectively evil of course, because evil is to do with subjective experiences of good and evil, and good and bad. Evil is considered worse than "bad", and many people throughout history and currently would be called a bad person by a majority of people I think.
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,175
Loc: USA
Last seen: 5 days, 12 hours
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26560903 - 03/27/20 10:36 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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I'd hesitate to give much credence to what the majority thinks - the hero of one group would be called evil by another 
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath
Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,352
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26560937 - 03/27/20 11:02 AM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
I'd hesitate to give much credence to what the majority thinks - the hero of one group would be called evil by another
So true. Look at the ones we call terrorists. What they do could be seen as nothing but a cry for help from someone who's grown up in a world filled with nothing but violence.
I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions - but maybe we should stop trying to justify our judgement of people's actions.
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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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InnerWisdom
Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26561084 - 03/27/20 12:14 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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True, true. I think a much more unbiased opinion on evil or bad would be given by those who are not part of any group like religion and are more individuals in that sense. That opinion would be shared with more people around the world.
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26561198 - 03/27/20 01:32 PM (4 years, 20 days ago) |
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Masochist: "Beat me"
Sadist: "No"
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....Little hard to define, or fit the world into absolute terms is it not?
Yet that is precisely the purpose of the terms 'good & bad' or 'good & evil' or 'virtue & sin'.
It is just a simple semantic trick, like asking: "Which side are you on?" (or "Are you for me or against me?"), to attempt to get someone else, to make a choice you want them to make.
The use of absolutes, in thought, often leads to bad conclusions.
To think the world is just made of opposites, is both immature & foolish, and equivalent to being in a sort of trance. However those who are religious, tend to be more vulnerable to this sort of nonsense - - and there are millions of such folks.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: laughingdog]
#26566785 - 03/30/20 08:47 AM (4 years, 17 days ago) |
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"Even if, juristically speaking, we were not accessories to the crime, we are always, thanks to our human nature, potential criminals. In reality we merely lacked a suitable opportunity to be drawn into the infernal melee." ~Carl Jung, CW 18, Pages 296-297, Para 572.
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
"Even if, juristically speaking, we were not accessories to the crime, we are always, thanks to our human nature, potential criminals. In reality we merely lacked a suitable opportunity to be drawn into the infernal melee." ~Carl Jung, CW 18, Pages 296-297, Para 572.
...This sounds sort of balanced; it is meant to increase tolerance & decrease judging,
...but its still focused on categorizing people, or oneself according to some sort of ethical yardstick, still sort of a Judeo-Christian in its attitude.
. Taoism and the "Tao de Ching", simply acknowledges paradox, and points to a state of mind that is free of such preoccupation with categorizing reality, others, or oneself. And predates Jung by ages.
. If anyone is interested the "Tao de Ching" is available on line as a free pdf download in different translations.
. "The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde" by Robert Louis Stevenson, 1886 ; Contains the same message, (in metaphorical form of course) as the Jung quote.
. Jung's dates are: C.G. Jung (26 July 1875 - 6 June 1961) , so he would have been only 11 years old when R. L. Stevenson, wrote his famous story.
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Cory Duchesne
tabernacle
Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 1,102
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 5 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: Such thing as a bad person? [Re: laughingdog]
#26567800 - 03/30/20 05:27 PM (4 years, 17 days ago) |
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I love the Tao Te Ching, so did Jung. I carried the Jane English translation for about 20 years. I also carry the Amber version of I-Ching. I bought 2 copies of the Jane English version of TTC, will buy a third eventually, as I tend to give my books away as I get easy access to online copies:
https://terebess.hu/english/tao/gia.html
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C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."
"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung
Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti
"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (03/30/20 05:28 PM)
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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In that case you might enjoy:
"Tao Te Ching: Definitive Edition" (by Lao Tzu) -- Jonathan Star
"Casey S.
5.0 out of 5 stars Most affordable quality Daodejing concordance available
Reviewed in the United States on February 3, 2017
Format: PaperbackVerified Purchase
Don't get the much shorter newer edition. Get this one. The concordance alone makes this book a steal. If you're an English speaker serious about studying the Daodejing, this is a crucial and affordable entry for your library. Just ignore the translation at the beginning as a bit of fluff. This book isn't bought for the writer's views. It's bought for the complete concordance in back."
The verbatim translation of the Chinese words (with Chinese symbols) with multiple english meanings for each word, enables one, to make one's own translation, so perhaps it is even more useful than the concordance, as the reviewer states . The charts of the verbatim translation of the Chinese words goes from page 100 to page255 (hard cover). The charts also reference, verse #s, & line positions, etc.
the concordance goes from page 295 to page340 (hard cover)
Together the concordance & the verbatim translation charts provide a unique tool to dig into the material.
https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Ching-Definitive-1-Apr-2004-Paperback/dp/B012HUPZ64/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3AFE0SLDHQT6B&keywords=jonathan+star+tao+te+ching&qid=1585614920&s=books&sprefix=Jonathan+Star%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C204&sr=1-2
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