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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?!
#2622959 - 04/30/04 06:11 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alright, today was the day I was planning on sterilizing my PF jars. I did the appropriate measurements for 12 jars:
3 Cups of BRF 6 Cups of Verm 3 Cups of Water
Now, it seems like there is almost half of the mixture left over! What do you guys think happened? Is it that big of a problem?
Also, like I said before, I was PLANNING on sterilizing the jars. I had no idea it was going to take as long as it did. I think I was futzing around with those damn jars for almost 2 hours!!
NOW I won't be able to sterilize the jars until a later date (probably a few days). Will the jars be alright until then (they are tightly sealed)?
It also 80F in my house at the time so the job became very tedious. I seriously hope I don't have to do it all over again!!
Please help, ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
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mrTtheH
Micro Bio

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 188
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2622970 - 04/30/04 06:14 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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an unsterilized jar is going to go wild with backteria/mold contams if left out too long..
-------------------- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)
"Human beings, the potentially highest form of life expression on this planet have built the vast pharmaceutical industry for the central purpose of poisoning the lowest form of life on the planet--germs!"--Dr. Richard Murray
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HaveABeer420
G.O.D.


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 666
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Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2622987 - 04/30/04 06:26 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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You made too much, next time make less. Either sterilize the substrate right then or don't use it.
-------------------- I don't charge by the inch I charge by the foot, think I'm lying bitch here take a look...100% U.S.D.A grade A beef, heres my card call me.
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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: mrTtheH]
#2622991 - 04/30/04 06:29 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
an unsterilized jar is going to go wild with backteria/mold contams if left out too long..
Well, how long is too long? I might be able to do it in an hour or two...but what do you think would be the maximum amount of time I could leave them alone? Would two days be too long? Wouldn't any bacteria that grew be killed during sterilization anyways? Also, don't forget about the left over substrate...I didn't make any miscalculation as you can see. But does it really matter (that there is a lot left over)? Thanks for the reply, ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
Edited by ShroomNoob03 (04/30/04 06:36 PM)
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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: HaveABeer420]
#2623007 - 04/30/04 06:35 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
You made too much, next time make less. Either sterilize the substrate right then or don't use it.
How could I have possibly made too much?! I followed the recipe exactly! Also, I don't think waiting an hour or two is going to ruin my cakes...will it?
ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623044 - 04/30/04 06:52 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alright, they are in the pots now. It has probably been a little over an hour since I finished filling them with the substrate. Am I wasting my time, or are these jars gonna be alright? Also, I didn't put any tin foil on the jars. I just put them in there with the lids sealed tightly, and with the electrical tape on the inoculation holes...is that okay? ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623069 - 04/30/04 06:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok, they already reached a boil so I put them all on low. How often do you guys think I should check them to add more water? I don't want to waste valuable steam checking more often than I should.
Thanks, ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
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chrisdab
Friend
Registered: 04/06/04
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623071 - 04/30/04 06:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sterilize today or tommorow. Let it cool down afterwords for 8+ hours then innoc. Too much is not a big deal. Throw them out if u dont need and chalk it up to experience.
dun stress everyting gona be all right mon
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ButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623073 - 04/30/04 07:00 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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.
-------------------- Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.
Edited by ButterNut (05/18/04 06:03 PM)
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ButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623083 - 04/30/04 07:02 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dont keep opening the pot.As long as you turned down the heat and you put the water 1/3 up the jars they are fine you wont need to add more.
-------------------- Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623085 - 04/30/04 07:02 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've waited till the next day to sterilize.
You need foil to keep water from getting into the jars and changing the water content. PM me if I can be of any help
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ButterNut]
#2623096 - 04/30/04 07:06 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
#2 you should have used foil.You arent suppose to screw the lids down tight.Now your jars are going to have a vacuem inside nd when you remove the tapeair(and possable contams) are gonna get sucked in.That is why you leave the lids loose and cover with fpoil so no water gets in.
Oh jesus, I thought the foil was JUST there to keep water out of the jars if they were left loose. I would have put some foil on if I knew that was the reason for it. Ugh, I hope inoculating in this bag isn't going to be a pain in the ass...cause it sounds like it! If I spray the bag with lysol, won't I have to wipe it out? If I don't wipe it, won't there be a big puddle of it in the bottom? Thanks for the replies everyone, ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
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ButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623105 - 04/30/04 07:08 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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its not a pain,and just spray lightly dont soak the bag.Dont do it if you dont want but IMO its a wise precaution in your circumstance,plus that way you can be 100% confident in your sterility.
-------------------- Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.
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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623357 - 04/30/04 08:41 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks so much for everyone's replies!!
I guess I should chuck the rest of that left over substrate right? Or could I refridgerate it if I wanted?
Could I even freeze it, and just thaw it out when I need it? The freezing temperatures should keep away contams and bacteria.
Thanks again, ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
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mrTtheH
Micro Bio

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 188
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623394 - 04/30/04 08:52 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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we did an expirement in a bontany lab about heat and freezing... destroying cells..freezing did the must damage to plant cells.... there might be some possibility of destorying the grain(substrate) cells....otherwise i dont know what to tell u other than try it and see...
-------------------- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)
"Human beings, the potentially highest form of life expression on this planet have built the vast pharmaceutical industry for the central purpose of poisoning the lowest form of life on the planet--germs!"--Dr. Richard Murray
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623434 - 04/30/04 09:04 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah try it man, I think you'd have a good possibility of that working out...after all it isn't hte grain cells that mushrooms like but rather the nutrients in them...freezing could have a beneficial effect (releasing whats inside the grain cells) but that is just ignorant hopefullness, but whatever, if u do end up doing it let us know.
-------------------- I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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Hallucinogen
Raoul Duke

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 1,342
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: HaveABeer420]
#2623531 - 04/30/04 09:34 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
HaveABeer420 said: You made too much, next time make less. Either sterilize the substrate right then or don't use it.
You have no clue do you ? I followed the exact same recepie and I had half a jar substrate left also, so think before you give advices
-------------------- Substrate + jars = $20 Magic Mushroom spores = $12 Growing your own Magic Mushrooms = Priceless
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2623536 - 04/30/04 09:36 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe you didn't put enough substrate in the jars.
How much space was there between the top of the jar and the substrate before you put the dry vermiculite layer on?
Are you using regular or wide mouth half pint jars.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2623652 - 04/30/04 10:16 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think it is possible to have that much space...are you sure you used 3/6/3 cups...and not like 6/12/6 cups on accident? I mean, I could see getting a cup measure and pint measure mixed up due to absent mindedness.
-------------------- I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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Hallucinogen
Raoul Duke

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 1,342
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: jong21]
#2623657 - 04/30/04 10:18 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yea Im sure, that substrate calculator is junk.
-------------------- Substrate + jars = $20 Magic Mushroom spores = $12 Growing your own Magic Mushrooms = Priceless
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2623662 - 04/30/04 10:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh and Hallucinogen, sorry to correct u on this but I think he meant he had half of his SUBSTRATE left off, not half a jar.
-------------------- I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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Hallucinogen
Raoul Duke

Registered: 04/14/04
Posts: 1,342
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: jong21]
#2623860 - 04/30/04 11:12 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yea, I had half of substrate left to fill another half a jar, its not that hard to measure.
-------------------- Substrate + jars = $20 Magic Mushroom spores = $12 Growing your own Magic Mushrooms = Priceless
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HaveABeer420
G.O.D.


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 666
Loc: The Carnival of Souls
Last seen: 5 months, 18 days
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2624198 - 05/01/04 12:44 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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He is saying he had enough substrate for 24 jars not 12. He either packed them ungodly loose, or he made to much substrate.
-------------------- I don't charge by the inch I charge by the foot, think I'm lying bitch here take a look...100% U.S.D.A grade A beef, heres my card call me.
Edited by HaveABeer420 (05/01/04 12:46 AM)
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mrTtheH
Micro Bio

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 188
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: HaveABeer420]
#2624202 - 05/01/04 12:45 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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maybe he was mistaken half-pint jars for pint jars... or vice-versa.. something of that nature?
-------------------- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)
"Human beings, the potentially highest form of life expression on this planet have built the vast pharmaceutical industry for the central purpose of poisoning the lowest form of life on the planet--germs!"--Dr. Richard Murray
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TRS
The SneakyMastermind
Registered: 10/13/03
Posts: 376
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: mrTtheH]
#2624311 - 05/01/04 01:18 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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each time i tried the pf tek id get left over substrate, even when i follewed the recipe to a T. no problem really, just put it into some more jars
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: TRS]
#2624329 - 05/01/04 01:23 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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>each time i tried the pf tek id get left over substrate, even when i follewed the recipe to a T
The first one who finds out the correct answer as to why this is the case gets a P. azurescens print.
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Hanky
wiffle bat.

Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Anno]
#2624602 - 05/01/04 04:43 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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the reason is plain and simple....the original PF tek called for packing the jars (go read) we all know not to do that anymore,dont we?
-------------------- Coaster is an idiot... [quote]Coaster said: but i thnk everything thats pure is white? [/quote]
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Arrakis
PsilocybinPsycho

Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 276
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Hanky]
#2624616 - 05/01/04 05:04 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, half-pint jars = 1 cup. If you followed the substrate calc, it doesn't take into account the dry verm. layer on top. Add up what it tells you to use for 12 jars, and you get 12 cups. I changed the "cup" to 3/4 cup. It's 3/4 to the bottom of the threads (for the lid) on the jar. It's a bitch to use 3/4 cup scoops in place of 1 cup if you're making less than 12 though. So for 12 jars we get: Verm = (6) 3/4 cup scoops BRF = (3) 3/4 cup scoops H20 = (3) 3/4 cup scoops
-------------------- Funniest shit I've read in a while: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886829&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart "He who controls the spice controls the universe!"
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Hanky
wiffle bat.

Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Arrakis]
#2624635 - 05/01/04 05:26 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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the amounts called for in the origianl PF tek take into account that the substrate is packed in hard. it has nothing to do with the dry verm layer which has always been standard. 3/4 would get you close but i'd put money on it being closer to a half,at the most it would be .6 packed jars will produce more/larger shrooms (like in the PF tek pics) but they colonise slowly and are more prone to contams/drying out and stalling. a lightly packed jar will colonise much faster and tips the chances of success in favour of the newer grower.
-------------------- Coaster is an idiot... [quote]Coaster said: but i thnk everything thats pure is white? [/quote]
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Arrakis
PsilocybinPsycho

Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 276
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Hanky]
#2624642 - 05/01/04 05:37 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hmm, I may try a few packed down a bit next time.
It's not a half, I've tried that. 2/3 Isn't enough, but 3/4 is pretty much right on.
I just like to conserve my BRF, as I hate seeing the "Health Food Store Ladies" , and they only carry 2 lb bags.
And here's a dancing penis:
-------------------- Funniest shit I've read in a while: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886829&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart "He who controls the spice controls the universe!"
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Hanky
wiffle bat.

Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Arrakis]
#2624645 - 05/01/04 05:40 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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a dancing penis is always good,you should visit OTD more often.
-------------------- Coaster is an idiot... [quote]Coaster said: but i thnk everything thats pure is white? [/quote]
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sakura
Aussie Expat

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Japan
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Arrakis]
#2625057 - 05/01/04 09:02 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arrakis said:
And here's a dancing penis:
Looks like someone's been playing with Nan's banana...
-------------------- Shrooms aren't everyone's cup of tea... (Some folks just eat 'em)
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jong21
Mycologist/CSMajor

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 576
Loc: Berkeley, CA
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Hanky]
#2625073 - 05/01/04 09:06 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are we still guessing for a p. azure print???
If so, I'll contribute my theory. If not...well looks like I'm contributing my theory anyway.
I think there are two factors at work here. The factors that increases the number of jars used given X cups of ingredients: The fact that the jars are not filled to the brim with substrate, and the fact that the substrate is normally loosely packed. The factor that decreases the number of jars: the fact that part of the water ingredient is absorbed in the vermiculite. So if 12 cups are used, 3 cups brf, 6 cups verm, 3 cups water, part of that water in a sense combines with the verm, so there are actually fewer than 12 cups of densely packed substrate. Also, the fine brf will fill in the relatively large empty spaces between the verm, thus not adding their full volume to the final substrate. This is why you have less than 1/4 of your original substrate left over, even though you may fill your jars 3/4 of the way.
My final theory is, the first two factors outweigh the last factor, so you are still left with leftover substrate, but not as much as you would be if you actually started with 12 cups of substrate. Since you start with, say, 9 cups of stubstrate (from 12 cups of ingredients), just fill your jars about 3/4 of the way full, if not a little more, but make it airy, so thus using even less than 9 cups of substrate, you will have less than/about 1 cup left.
-------------------- I either talk about my friends in the first or third person, but I never, ever talk about myself on this website. Except that last sentence.
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: jong21]
#2625172 - 05/01/04 09:23 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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We are still guessing for the print. The calling for tamping down in the older directions is one part of the answer.
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ButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Anno]
#2625260 - 05/01/04 09:43 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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#1 the tamping down of the substrate #2 whether its course or fine verm.
-------------------- Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.
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MoNk
pupil

Registered: 02/07/04
Posts: 134
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ButterNut]
#2625287 - 05/01/04 09:47 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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#3 widemouth or narrow jars.
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ShroomNoob03
Seeker of Knowledge

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 392
Loc: The Depths of My Psyche
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2625518 - 05/01/04 10:33 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey guys, I did use 1/2 Pint jars and a total of 12 cups of substrate. I didn't make any miscalculations, I didn't want to mess this up so I was extremely careful.
I was originally thinking that the reason was that the PF cake recipe was designed to fill the jars all the way with substrate. I guess they accidently combined the measurements for the dry verm layer on top with the verm that goes in the cake. Oh course not tamping down I'm sure contributed to the left over substrate as well.
I mixed everything slowly and carefully it wasn't my fault.
Thanks for the replies everyone, ShroomNoob03
-------------------- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. -Carl Sagan
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doc34
Fungitarian


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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2625573 - 05/01/04 10:48 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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1>tamping down of substrate 2>vermiculite and/or brf expanded by water?
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2625631 - 05/01/04 10:59 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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1)Tamping down the substrate 2)water cause's the brf/verm to swell up making more bulk, like grains do
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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Magash
Da Bud Guru


Registered: 07/25/02
Posts: 5,876
Loc: Near Hilo
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2625849 - 05/01/04 12:19 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well this may be stupid but here's my two cents on why it happens.
Say you doing the 2 parts verm, 1 part water, 1 part brf mix. Total that is 4 parts. Now say your measuring the parts with a half pint jar. Now a jar of pure brf is packed weather you want it to or not. There's you one part. Now when you get the verm I'm sure most would fill the jar but they wouldn't be all lightly filling the jar cause it's not a colonization worry yet.
Now you have your stuff all mixed up but now your putting it in the jars all lightly and trying to make it somewhat airy for the myc to spread. So if you have 4 jars of mix then throw it in a bowl and mix and then lightly fill the jars there will be some left over.
and last, when most are measuring the amounts for the jars they don't take into account the room needed for the dry verm layer.
-------------------- All creatures tremble when faced with violence. All creatures fear death, all love life. If we can only see ourselves in others, then how could we possibly hurt another creature?
Join us at the Growery!
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failbot999
Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 590
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! *DELETED* [Re: Anno]
#2627339 - 05/02/04 07:58 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post deleted by ski_stonedReason for deletion: delete
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: failbot999]
#2629122 - 05/02/04 08:03 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is a question every newbie ask It's begining to look like Anno is the only one to know Lots of good guess's through Spark one up and think about it Someone should win that print
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
Edited by KaptKid (05/02/04 08:04 PM)
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ButterNut
Squash

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 1,466
Loc: Throughout the world
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Anno Any1 right? [Re: Anno]
#2637733 - 05/04/04 04:59 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anno whats up who is right and who gets the Azure?
-------------------- Butternut squash are softer than acorn or other types of squash, which makes them easier to cut and prepare.
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daisybird
journeyman

Registered: 04/21/04
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2644817 - 05/06/04 09:45 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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i think that the reason there is always so much left over is the old PF Tek suggested packing the jars tightly and now we pack them lightly. but the recipe is about double, same thing happened to me and i followed the recipe to the letter.
as to the question of how long you can wait to sterilize. i made some jars up and and covered them with foil and put in the frig for 36 hours and then sterilized. eveything is fine and the jars are colonizing nicely. also i made a batch of jars and sterilized them and waited 36 hours to innoculate and that is fine too
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: daisybird]
#2657649 - 05/09/04 04:50 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Somebody's got to know?  A good guess.
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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berto23
Stranger
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: ShroomNoob03]
#2657729 - 05/09/04 05:16 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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for one, when you mix things around the ingrediants gain volume by getting air inbetween the clumps thats the biggest part of why so much is left. Look at the bags of just verm and just brown rice flour and of course water... do you see any air inbetween the particles??? (maybe you see a tiny bit in the verm but look at all that and then a freshly made PF jar)
-------------------- the shnozzberrys taste like shnozzberrys
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trev
comming out of retirement


Registered: 04/02/03
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Re: Anno Any1 right? [Re: ButterNut]
#2672468 - 05/13/04 06:41 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah anno whats the deal a cat is about to do a few jars Here is what cat does;
As I am using glasses with foil for jars, I measure out the amount of total mass I am gonna need with the verm. Filling every glass to within 2 cm of rim then put this into a container that measures cups to get the total ammount of substrate I need in cups)then I take out 1/4 of the mass and replace with BRF then add water and everytime I get a significant proportion leftover. I am trying this again and will record the amount of leftovers So far the total ammount of subst. I need tonite is 10 cups Report back later TREV
--------------------
Anonymous #14 [quote]There are billions of people on this planet. The world does not revolve around the united states, moron. I hope terrorists crash their collective cocks into your asshole. [/quote]
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Anno Any1 right? [Re: trev]
#2693697 - 05/17/04 09:58 PM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anno any of us even close?
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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chrisdab
Friend
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Re: Anno Any1 right? [Re: KaptKid]
#2695730 - 05/18/04 11:39 AM (19 years, 8 months ago) |
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How lame, Anno never even bothered to reply. Don't people get their ratings dropped for reneging on prizes?
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Anno Any1 right? [Re: chrisdab]
#2755027 - 06/01/04 10:23 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anno I don't care about any prize. I just want to know for myself.
Hell do away with the prize JUST let us know.
Oh ya made for 12 1/2pt jars. Filled 14 and about a 1/4 jars. eace: 
Tell us, even Magash has a gess
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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fict
phi
Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 64
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Re: PF Tek: Why is there so much substrate mix left over?! [Re: Anno]
#2755080 - 06/01/04 10:40 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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My guess: Because it's better to have too much than too little. Different people use different kinds of verm, some people grind their own rice, and so forth... The recipe as it stands ensures that you'll have enough substrate to fill your jars, regardless of these variables.
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FunkyBudah
myco-wizard

Registered: 04/25/03
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You could try not making as much! Seemed simple to me..
-J
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Anno
Experimenter



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Re: Anno Any1 right? [Re: ButterNut]
#2757359 - 06/02/04 03:32 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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The second part (or ONE part of several) is the fact that the recipe changed over time.
The original recipe called for
1/8 cup of brown rice powder (Health food stores and co-ops) 1/2 - 2/3 cup of horticultural vermiculite (medium grade) (garden centers and hardware) 40-45 cc's (milliliters) of water or (a little less than 1/4 cup) (1&1/2 ounces) (3 tablespoons + 1 teaspoon) ( http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23593/pag/1 )
the new recipe calls for
1/4 cup of brown rice powder 1/2 cup of vermiculite 60 cc's water ( http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23593/pag/8 )
As you can see if you mix the ingredients together, the new recipe gives quite some more substrate. More than fits a jar.
Now who earns a print??
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doc34
Fungitarian


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Re: Anno Any1 right? [Re: Anno]
#2757391 - 06/02/04 03:40 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Me?
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sublimesubmind
enthusiast
Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 264
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Yes, the recipe is for 1 pint jars. It has to be, i also came out with exactly DOUBLE the amount i needed. I knew it before i even started, and sure enough when i tried it, i was alblke to fill all of the jars with half the amount of substrate as the recipe called for.
I was just going to bring this up, im glad someone else finally noticed.
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