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OfflineFiddyYearsDark
Stranger
I'm a teapot
Registered: 07/02/19
Posts: 51
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shroomerquest] * 2
    #26218792 - 09/29/19 04:19 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Remember though that transgenderism is not in fact anything new. There's quite a lot of anthropological work done on transgenderism in indigenous societies throughout the Americas. The french term "berdache" gets used a lot but it was present in a LOT of American cultures.

There's also contemporary accounts of one of the Conquistadores (Bolivar? maybe?) being so freaked out by finding native men (anatomically) who lived as women that he ordered like 40 of them killed and fed to his dogs.

And of course in the Revolutionary and Civil wars there were soldiers who were only found to be anatomically female when they got injured or killed and were examined by a doctor.

Anyway, nothing new, just more visible when people are not so worried about being fired, harassed, killed, etc.


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OfflineTripsten
Stranger

Registered: 10/23/17
Posts: 1,104
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: FiddyYearsDark]
    #26218844 - 09/29/19 04:44 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

True you are correct
I would then say all I said about role leaving gender but then that that is what we have BEEN trying to accomplish
Thank you for adding that I had forgot about historical accounts ect


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
fancy cat
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Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 11,281
Loc: Nasty Women Get Shit Done
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: FiddyYearsDark] * 4
    #26220659 - 09/30/19 02:53 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

There are many accounts of transgender individuals in native and indigenous cultures (ex. two-spirit, muxe, hijras, fa'afafine)  - but in most cases they are treated as a separate or third gender rather than being absorbed into the male or female category which is actually biologically impossible, and I believe we should follow this approach.


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OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
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Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,340
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: FiddyYearsDark]
    #26227978 - 10/03/19 06:06 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FiddyYearsDark said:
Remember though that transgenderism is not in fact anything new. There's quite a lot of anthropological work done on transgenderism in indigenous societies throughout the Americas. The french term "berdache" gets used a lot but it was present in a LOT of American cultures.

There's also contemporary accounts of one of the Conquistadores (Bolivar? maybe?) being so freaked out by finding native men (anatomically) who lived as women that he ordered like 40 of them killed and fed to his dogs.

And of course in the Revolutionary and Civil wars there were soldiers who were only found to be anatomically female when they got injured or killed and were examined by a doctor.

Anyway, nothing new, just more visible when people are not so worried about being fired, harassed, killed, etc.




Bolivar was the South American George Washington. You're probably thinking of Balboa.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineDark fatal7
Mycophile
Male

Registered: 09/16/19
Posts: 100
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shroomerquest]
    #26228576 - 10/03/19 10:17 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

This.


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Offlinekneesocks
Divineress
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Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Dark fatal7] * 2
    #26245175 - 10/11/19 02:22 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

In my case, attempting to live with male testosterone levels always gave me a very bad reaction - irrational anger, depression, complete inability to function socially, complete inability to progress in academic studies or even a career. Nothing else helped me. It was rock bottom, life or death. All of those issues went away with hormone replacement therapy and I became a real person.
I just wanted to live and to love that person in the mirror. It's not about pushing any agenda.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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OfflineShroomerquest
Male


Registered: 04/25/19
Posts: 885
Loc: Clouds
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: kneesocks]
    #26245861 - 10/11/19 07:02 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
In my case, attempting to live with male testosterone levels always gave me a very bad reaction - irrational anger, depression, complete inability to function socially, complete inability to progress in academic studies or even a career. Nothing else helped me. It was rock bottom, life or death. All of those issues went away with hormone replacement therapy and I became a real person.
I just wanted to live and to love that person in the mirror. It's not about pushing any agenda.




Apologies for if I come across as rude. I suppose I’m a bit ignorant on this...I don’t know your gender at birth but from the way I read this is that...you were born female but had extra testosterone so now you have HRT to make you feel “normal” as in a female your birth gender?

Anyway, good on ya for fighting on


--------------------


EVERYTHING YOU NEED IS FREE...


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Offlinekneesocks
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Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shroomerquest]
    #26246040 - 10/11/19 08:13 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerquest said:
Quote:

kneesocks said:
In my case, attempting to live with male testosterone levels always gave me a very bad reaction - irrational anger, depression, complete inability to function socially, complete inability to progress in academic studies or even a career. Nothing else helped me. It was rock bottom, life or death. All of those issues went away with hormone replacement therapy and I became a real person.
I just wanted to live and to love that person in the mirror. It's not about pushing any agenda.




Apologies for if I come across as rude. I suppose I’m a bit ignorant on this...I don’t know your gender at birth but from the way I read this is that...you were born female but had extra testosterone so now you have HRT to make you feel “normal” as in a female your birth gender?

Anyway, good on ya for fighting on



Not quite but thank you for your kindness. I was assigned male at birth but always identified as female and strongly associated with other girls since I was a small child.  I'm 30 now, but I've known for sure about these feelings for the past 22 years. Puberty was the beginning of a major decline in functioning which lasted until I started hormone therapy some years ago. Nothing else worked; not at least two dozen different psychiatric medications, counseling, therapy, countless ER visits from just trying to suck it up.
I accept that the Creator intended for me to have this experience so I can better serve the Divine, reduce suffering and bring good things to this world.
I apologize if being who I am is disagreeable to anyone.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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OfflineShroomerquest
Male


Registered: 04/25/19
Posts: 885
Loc: Clouds
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: kneesocks] * 1
    #26247128 - 10/12/19 11:00 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Quote:

Shroomerquest said:
Quote:

kneesocks said:
In my case, attempting to live with male testosterone levels always gave me a very bad reaction - irrational anger, depression, complete inability to function socially, complete inability to progress in academic studies or even a career. Nothing else helped me. It was rock bottom, life or death. All of those issues went away with hormone replacement therapy and I became a real person.
I just wanted to live and to love that person in the mirror. It's not about pushing any agenda.




Apologies for if I come across as rude. I suppose I’m a bit ignorant on this...I don’t know your gender at birth but from the way I read this is that...you were born female but had extra testosterone so now you have HRT to make you feel “normal” as in a female your birth gender?

Anyway, good on ya for fighting on



Not quite but thank you for your kindness. I was assigned male at birth but always identified as female and strongly associated with other girls since I was a small child.  I'm 30 now, but I've known for sure about these feelings for the past 22 years. Puberty was the beginning of a major decline in functioning which lasted until I started hormone therapy some years ago. Nothing else worked; not at least two dozen different psychiatric medications, counseling, therapy, countless ER visits from just trying to suck it up.
I accept that the Creator intended for me to have this experience so I can better serve the Divine, reduce suffering and bring good things to this world.
I apologize if being who I am is disagreeable to anyone.




Thanks for replying...not I nor no one call tell you what you feel. Sounds like you’ve been through the mill and hats off to you for getting through it.

I guess i just don’t understand...the definitions used like association just doesn’t say to me how to make sense of it. Can’t we associate ourselves with many things...like the feral children behaving like the wolves? Terrible comparison probably

Like...what does it mean to feel like a man or what does feeling like a man feel like? This is where im led to think...albeit ignorant thinking is that it is psychological but also can be influenced through body/brain chemistry.

This is a tough one, not only to wrap my mind around but to talk about without sounding  like a prick. Thank you for sharing


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EVERYTHING YOU NEED IS FREE...


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shroomerquest]
    #26247198 - 10/12/19 11:39 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I have no problem with people being transgender. I do have a problem with them competing in sports. A trans woman shouldn't be able to fight women in the ufc. It's literally dangerous and not right on so many levels. If you do think it's ok for trans women to fight in the ufc I truly believe you're mentally retarded. I'm also against giving children hormones! You crazy bastards!



Edited by Shenmue (10/12/19 11:41 AM)


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OfflineShroomerquest
Male


Registered: 04/25/19
Posts: 885
Loc: Clouds
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shenmue]
    #26247544 - 10/12/19 02:07 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I have no problem with people being transgender. I do have a problem with them competing in sports. A trans woman shouldn't be able to fight women in the ufc. It's literally dangerous and not right on so many levels. If you do think it's ok for trans women to fight in the ufc I truly believe you're mentally retarded. I'm also against giving children hormones! You crazy bastards!






I’m afraid I agree on both, competing in sports as you said and I don’t agree with giving a kid anything other than a good diet.

What do we do so everyone is happy...create a transgender league? Just a thought


--------------------


EVERYTHING YOU NEED IS FREE...


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Offlinekneesocks
Divineress
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Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shroomerquest]
    #26247587 - 10/12/19 02:25 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
I'm also against giving children hormones!



It should be the child's decision and not forced by parents of course. I would have benefitted from having this option much earlier.
Quote:

Shenmue said:
I do have a problem with them competing in sports.


Quote:

Shroomerquest said:
What do we do so everyone is happy...create a transgender league? Just a thought



I agree on these two things. Hormones level the playing field only to a small degree, and it's especially unfair for ciswomen when a transwoman decides to compete despite not undergoing hormone replacement therapy. It makes a huge difference.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: kneesocks]
    #26247609 - 10/12/19 02:41 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

It should be the child's decision? Are you fucking insane? Children also want to eat nothing but candy and ice cream so let's just feed them nothing but shit because it's what they truly want! Hell they hate school and want to play video games all day so let's respect their decisions and let them stay home all fucking day! That's how much sence you fucking make. Children don't even have a fully functional brain yet! God I can't stand people like you.


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shenmue]
    #26247613 - 10/12/19 02:43 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

It should be illegal to give anyone under age hormones. Period.. I think these parents and doctors should be locked up.


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OfflineShroomerquest
Male


Registered: 04/25/19
Posts: 885
Loc: Clouds
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shenmue]
    #26247644 - 10/12/19 02:56 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
It should be the child's decision? Are you fucking insane? Children also want to eat nothing but candy and ice cream so let's just feed them nothing but shit because it's what they truly want! Hell they hate school and want to play video games all day so let's respect their decisions and let them stay home all fucking day! That's how much sence you fucking make. Children don't even have a fully functional brain yet! God I can't stand people like you.




Woah, this is one of those times we should stop to think before clicking send button

Children unlike adults can’t make informed decisions but are easily led or persuaded into making misinformed decisions


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EVERYTHING YOU NEED IS FREE...


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Offlinekneesocks
Divineress
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shenmue]
    #26247649 - 10/12/19 02:59 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I wouldn't have wasted so much time if I'd known that testosterone was what was making me dysfunctional. I think that things like circumcision and hormones shouldn't be forced on minors but if they understand the risks and other treatment has been ineffective as it was in my case, it shouldn't be denied them if they express desire to pursue these sorts of things.

I would hope that if your child came out to you and was in danger of death, you would be open to exploring a treatment option that your child presents to you after exhausting other treatment options.

It's not possible to live if you have to pretend to be a certain person so that you don't displease your parents expectations of you. My experience was such. I apologize if you find my position based off of my lived experience to be disagreeable.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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InvisibleShenmue
Dark Lord of the Sith 
Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 2,514
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shroomerquest]
    #26247651 - 10/12/19 02:59 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerquest said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
I have no problem with people being transgender. I do have a problem with them competing in sports. A trans woman shouldn't be able to fight women in the ufc. It's literally dangerous and not right on so many levels. If you do think it's ok for trans women to fight in the ufc I truly believe you're mentally retarded. I'm also against giving children hormones! You crazy bastards!






I’m afraid I agree on both, competing in sports as you said and I don’t agree with giving a kid anything other than a good diet.

What do we do so everyone is happy...create a transgender league? Just a thought




They can create their own league. I have no problem with that. The best thing we can do is just be nice and respectful. Half of them are commenting suicide after they do the surgery so we might need to rethink what we're allowing people to do. If a mentally ill person asks a doctor to cut off their arm is that ok? Well trans people are basically doing the same thing. Doctors removing people's private parts for money is kind of insane.


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OfflineShroomerquest
Male


Registered: 04/25/19
Posts: 885
Loc: Clouds
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shenmue]
    #26247675 - 10/12/19 03:11 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
Quote:

Shroomerquest said:
Quote:

Shenmue said:
I have no problem with people being transgender. I do have a problem with them competing in sports. A trans woman shouldn't be able to fight women in the ufc. It's literally dangerous and not right on so many levels. If you do think it's ok for trans women to fight in the ufc I truly believe you're mentally retarded. I'm also against giving children hormones! You crazy bastards!






I’m afraid I agree on both, competing in sports as you said and I don’t agree with giving a kid anything other than a good diet.

What do we do so everyone is happy...create a transgender league? Just a thought




They can create their own league. I have no problem with that. The best thing we can do is just be nice and respectful. Half of them are commenting suicide after they do the surgery so we might need to rethink what we're allowing people to do. If a mentally ill person asks a doctor to cut off their arm is that ok? Well trans people are basically doing the same thing. Doctors removing people's private parts for money is kind of insane.




Money talks

seriously though you’re preaching to the choir here but let’s not be disrespectful about it


--------------------


EVERYTHING YOU NEED IS FREE...


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Offlinekneesocks
Divineress
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Shenmue]
    #26247685 - 10/12/19 03:16 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:If a mentally ill person asks a doctor to cut off their arm is that ok


It's not the same. I understand that you find the surgical procedures disgusting but the rates of regret are very low. People who rush into these more permanent treatments can end up regretting their decision but it's not as if they do it for anyone who asks. You need two letters - one from a mental health professional and one from your primary care physician. Most who pursue bottom surgery are satisfied with the results and well informed of potential complications including the risk of death, and have thought about it carefully for a long time.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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Offlinekneesocks
Divineress
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: kneesocks]
    #26247705 - 10/12/19 03:24 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's strange that some people can't consider the possibility that people like me have benefitted from treatment. The well being of the patient comes first. Chemo shouldn't be denied to a cancer patient who desires it, nor made illegal just because it wasn't 100% effective for a small number of patients.


--------------------
"An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt;
A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
-Bhagavad-gita 4:40


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