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Offlineverum subsequentis
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verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test * 10
    #26217242 - 09/28/19 10:49 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Welcome to the wonderful world of
:havesomescience:



As a noob I read this, that and the other about the proper way to store dried fruits. A small understanding of the proper use of the search function would yield plenty of sufficient answers (hint: check the TC box) but I figured I'd run a little test. I'm always running little tests but figured I'd share this one because.... I've never seen it done before and figure it could help a noob or two.

Anyone who's grown more than an ounce already knows what doesn't work. But what works best? I have my assumptions for sure but intend to find out. What i plan on doing is checking the weight of these little fuckers once every.... whenever. So long as i test them all at the same time I'll get a good understanding of what's up. I'm no rocket scientist but, i suppose, If they weigh more than they did last week... They're taking on water,
AKA NOT PROPERLY SEALED.

The fruits are cracker ass dry. I weighed the fruits and the bag with the fruits in them. This way I can check the weight of the entire bag without opening it up and taking the fruits out. I've sat and stared at cracker dry fruits on a scale enough times to know that those dry little homos are dying to suck up as much moisture as they can from the air. I recon the test will be a little more controlled if I'm not opening and closing them over and over for the next.... How ever long this test lasts.

The Good ol Ziploc sandwich bag
Quote:

Ziploc.com said:

Sandwhich bag uses: Packing sandwiches, pizza slices, subs, cookies, fruit, carrot sticks, chips and more.
Grab-and-go snacking.
NOT FOR MAGIC MUSHROOMS




Quote:

Someone else said:

The standard household Ziploc® Brand sandwich bag is 1.5 Mil. The heavier freezer bags sold in stores are about 3 Mil. 4 Mil. = 101.6 Microns = .1016 Millimeters = 4/1000 inch.




Quote:

www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com said:

Polyethylene-Low Density is a polymer that can be used to form a plastic bag and its zip closure. It is part of the Polyethylene (PE) family, which is the most widely used plastic. Polyethylene-Low Density, also known as LDPE, is commonly used in rigid plastic containers. We use a mix of different polyethylene densities to get the ideal strength and flexibility for different bag types




Ziploc snack bag




Ziploc storage bag




Ziploc freezer bag




Hefty 2.5 gallon "Jumbo slider"
(that i don't trust)




Vacuum seal bags
I use OutOfAir bags.

Quote:

OutOfAir.com said:

OutOfAir bags are made out of 7 layers of Nylon and Polyethylene. Our bags are 4 mil thick on the gloss side and 10 mil thick on the embossed side. In comparison, FoodSaver® standard bags are 3 mil thick and are made of 5 layers.
7 Layers including 2 air barriers
When comparing vacuum sealer bags it's important to know one thing: nylon is the material that actually blocks the air and moisture molecules from getting to your food. Without nylon, air and moisture would seep in through the "normal" plastic due to the vacuum inside the bag.

All vacuum sealer bags have an outer layer of nylon. To make OutOfAir bags the smarter choice we added a second nylon barrier in the middle of our bags.

What this means is that if the outer nylon layer is superficially damaged, OutOfAir bags stay sealed, and your food stays preserved.


The 7 OutOfAir layers, from outside to inside: Nylon (co-extruded PA), PE (polyethylene), LDPE (low density polyethylene), PE, Nylon, PE, LDPE.







And one of my favorite things in the world... A mutha fuckin glass jar. Don't use these for mushroom storage because they take up too much space and my jars are busy doing other things. This jar has the standard two piece metal lid with seal.




Everybody smile.



Let the games begin

Edit 12/29/19

Alright fellow rainbow farmers. It's been 3 months and i thought it time to check in on things. The results are not what i was expecting but here we go.

snack bag

Was 3.93 G
Is 4.10 G
Gained .17 G

storage bag

Was 7.64 G
Is 7.93 G
Gained .29 G

Freezer bag

Was 15.08 G
Is 15.40 G
Gained .32 G

Hefty slider bag

Was 24.49 G
Is  24.81 G
Gained .32 G

Out Of Air vac seal bag

Was 17.77 G
Is 18.13 G
Gained .36 G

Mason Jar

Was 277.59 G
Is 277.47 G
LOST .12 G
(what the fuck)


Edited by verum subsequentis (12/30/19 12:07 AM)

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26217243 - 09/28/19 10:50 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:scarybeat:

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OfflineMessiah of Savants
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26217254 - 09/28/19 11:01 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Cool little experiment! I'm curious to see a few numbers over time. Surely the vacuum seal is superior, followed by the mason jar. I wonder how long those bag lifetimes could be if a desiccant packet was thrown in with one of them. Would be cool if you double each bag/jar and threw in a package and took numbers on those too.

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #26217256 - 09/28/19 11:04 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Feel free. I decided to do it like this because it'll answer the only question i need answered. Which method allows the least moisture to get in and attack my precious actives? I don't need a desiccant packet to find that out.

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OfflineMessiah of Savants
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26217261 - 09/28/19 11:08 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

You don't need to do this experiment if that's all you want to know. :wink: The nylon vacuum sealed is far superior hands down, followed by mason jar. I'd never even consider storing mushrooms long term in a zip lock baggy without a packet.

Edited by Messiah of Savants (09/28/19 11:09 PM)

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Messiah of Savants] * 1
    #26217272 - 09/28/19 11:19 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I'm well aware of what the outcome will be (roughly at least). I just have a thing for documenting things that i haven't seen documented. You have no clue how often I've had to answer questions about this and wished there was a clear and obvious thread i could link folks to. That is what i intend to accomplish. Thanks though

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26217346 - 09/29/19 12:38 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:takingnotes:

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Offlinejcm4620
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Ill-bird]
    #26217359 - 09/29/19 12:55 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

lol i cant fucking believe that ziploc.com actually put on there not for magic mushrooms thats funny as shit


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: jcm4620] * 5
    #26217362 - 09/29/19 12:58 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I did that. Sorry, thought the joke was obvious

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26217363 - 09/29/19 01:00 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: I just figured the guy that wrote the Presto manual did the Ziploc website copywriting

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26217385 - 09/29/19 01:23 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

lol well iv always believed u so i just took your word for it i didnt fact check u or anything lol but thanx for the laugh ya i forgot bout the presto manual thats funny also


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Edited by jcm4620 (09/29/19 01:25 AM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26217391 - 09/29/19 01:29 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:takingnotes:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Zakkery]
    #26217462 - 09/29/19 03:34 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Double bagging with the air sucked out with a straw was my initial storage method before I had a sealer. Cool thread for documenting purposes.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Messiah of Savants] * 3
    #26217596 - 09/29/19 06:40 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jcm4620 said:
lol i cant fucking believe that ziploc.com actually put on there not for magic mushrooms thats funny as shit



No this comment is what's funny as shit.

Quote:

Messiah of Savants said:
You don't need to do this experiment if that's all you want to know. :wink: The nylon vacuum sealed is far superior hands down, followed by mason jar. I'd never even consider storing mushrooms long term in a zip lock baggy without a packet.



Jar > vacuum bag
Glass and metal far less porous than even nylon is

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26217606 - 09/29/19 06:48 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

lol ya thats a good 1 some ppl cant resist can they


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: jcm4620] * 1
    #26217724 - 09/29/19 07:54 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

another interesting experiment. good stuff.

i like vacuum sealed half-gallon mason jars. they look killer lining the shelves in the closet, especially as the number of species in the collection increases. it's like an apothecary. or i imagine what a 'shroom dispensary would look like. but yeah, not great for space savings.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Zakkery]
    #26217817 - 09/29/19 08:52 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:takingnotes: :chemistry:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26217845 - 09/29/19 09:08 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

cool test! I'd suspect the mason jars to be best, if not tied with vacuum storage bags done proper.

I may have overlooked the answer and I see the obvious storage containers, but storage location of said containers is where?  (cool dry dark shelf, dedicated or not fridge, freezer? and average temps of shelf or fridge? RH of the space, etc)

and thanks for doing that outofair bag homework, I need to see if what we have meets those standards, if not time to change!


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: TeaforTwo] * 2
    #26218230 - 09/29/19 11:38 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

They are all in a cabinet in a plastic grocery bag. The grocery bag is just to keep them all together so i don't get confused later. The cabinet meets all the proper requirements. Cool, dark..... you know. The RH definitely matters for life in general but not for my purposes here. I'm simply comparing different products in an effort come to, document and share some concrete conclusions.

I know that double bagging is probably safer and that desiccant packets can help but I just don't care about those aspects for this experiment.

What prompted this experiment, other than my unending desire to more fully understand what I'm doing, is the fact that i've been liking the 2.5 gallon jumbos slider bags but can't get rid of this feeling that they are inadequate. I can't bring myself to trust the slider or the plastic. So i did a little test like this and immediately found that the fruits were gaining weight rather rapidly. These fruits were double bagged and still drawing moisture from the air. So i said fuck it. It's time to run a test and share the results.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26218249 - 09/29/19 11:43 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:teabird:

I use gallon freezer bags until they reach 1/2 lb then vac seal for long term storage. Seems to be a happy compromise.


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: AyePlus]
    #26218255 - 09/29/19 11:44 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I've done a bit of that myself.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26218275 - 09/29/19 11:50 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm.. what about glass mason jar, purged with CO2 or argon, has anyone done that before? Probably too much hassle


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: iux]
    #26218283 - 09/29/19 11:51 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

That has been done. Not by me though.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: TeaforTwo]
    #26218294 - 09/29/19 11:53 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

More importantly:

1. Are you washing your fruits before drying?

I always wash my fruit just to be safe.

2. How much time is your drying process taking?

I personally have a rule of 12 hours max for any amount. You don't want a drying system that takes too long. 

3. Are they cracker dry when finished....meaning you can snap them like a cracker.

Check the biggest part of the base on the biggest fruit.

4. After 7 days in storage can you take a dried fruit out and snap it like a cracker?

I use screw top glass jars with a couple of teabags thrown in for dried fruit storage


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pickle jar pete] * 2
    #26218324 - 09/29/19 12:00 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

More importantly? I don't follow.

1. fuck no
2. Entirely depends on how loaded the dehydrator is
3. I know what cracker dry means. Personally, i don't trust it. I dry until the fattest bastard quits losing weight.
4. Why 7 days. If your tub gives you a dry half pound you need to be able to store it properly for more than a week.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26218385 - 09/29/19 12:24 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

yeah pete idk how any of those points matter. Why the actual fuck would you ever "wash" your fruits? how do you go about that?

Question for Verum tho: you say you dry until your largest fruit quits losing weight. assuming, you note initial weight, and then set times for observations, how long does it take for you to effectively dry your harvests? well say the dehydrator is full, for scenarios' sake. How long does the fruit have to stop decreasing in weight before you conclude that it's ready for storage? I like the idea of measuring dryness that way, because really i dont trust it either, just testing even 6 or 7 fruits wont give you a completely accurate reading of the entire harvest.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pickle jar pete]
    #26218390 - 09/29/19 12:27 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pickle jar pete said:
1. Are you washing your fruits before drying?

I always wash my fruit just to be safe.






:notlol:

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26218488 - 09/29/19 01:18 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

i only weigh the fruit initially if i'm curious about total water weight. I don't typically do that though because i don't care. Even so, you'd have to weigh the entire harvest before and after drying to come up with an adequate % of water weight lost. I've done that a time or two and generally land between 8% and 11%.

I take the fattest fruit in the load and place it on the top rack. This is because it's farthest away from the heating element and will potentially be picking up moisture from the fruits below it. For these reasons it'll be the last to dry completely.

I'll just let it roll until i think it's almost done. This entirely depends on how heavy the dehydrator is loaded. My dehydrator is huge. I made it out of a stand up freezer. I never load it to max capacity because it can hold what will dry to around.... 5 pounds? I don't actually know because i don't cram her full. Reason being it'll take to long to finish and i don't like the fruits to be in danger longer than needed.

Another factor in drying time is what culture i'm drying. I grow a lot of PE genetics and they can be rather chodeish little fuckers. Regardless though, I can dry around a pound in around 24 hours. Two pounds takes closer to 36 (let it be noted though, these are just educated guesses. I haven't taken great notes on this subject). So, I let it roll until it's close to done and then i weigh the fat lady. I right down the time and weight and then check back a little later. I like to give her about an hour between weighing but it's not a science. I just do this until it stabilizes. You can get a pretty good feel for it. If you check it an hour later and it's lost considerable weight, it's got some time still. If you check and it's barely dropped, you're almost there.

I quit trusting the cracker dry snap test when i started doing this and found that certain types of fruits can appear to be "snapable" and still have water in them.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26218551 - 09/29/19 02:02 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Glass and metal far less porous than even nylon is





Certainly, but I would still guess it would take far longer for air/moisture to penetrate the nylon poly bag than it would for the mushrooms in the jar to absorb the moisture from the air.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #26218563 - 09/29/19 02:08 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I like that answer V, thanks.

How do you actually store your fruits, in practice? I vac seal by the oz and just leave them in a dark cabinet. Havent notice any weight change, i note the weight on the bag, and i take that measurement seconds before it goes in the bag. I always reweigh the whole bag before weighing out doses from it, and  i dont think i've noticed any change at all. I will say, i rarely store mushrooms for long.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26218580 - 09/29/19 02:18 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

vac seal for long term. Double ziplock storage or freezer bags for short term. I always make sure that I'm sure fruits are totally dry before vac sealing.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26218600 - 09/29/19 02:30 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: eatyualive]
    #26218774 - 09/29/19 04:13 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: NothingsChanged]
    #26219351 - 09/29/19 10:13 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Nice to see you documenting this.

So far I have settled on two freezer bags with three 5g D-packs with the mush and three more between the outer bag and inner. Then put inside a closed cardboard box. When the moisture activated chunks start to turn blue on the outer side I look at the inner and they stay clear. Then I replace the outer ones with fresh ones.

I did neglect a stock of RW in my closet half way through the summer and the inner ones were blue as well on inspection.
I opened the bag and a few had a slight bend. I set the bendiest ones aside to eat in the dehydrator to see how severe potency loss would be for em.
I re-dehydrated the whole bag and took 6 grams the next day to see if any potency was lost and they still delivered so I my mind was pretty eased with the stability of potency.
I'm sure if left bendy for months though it would be a different story.

During the humid summer, on main floor level, in a closet, in a cardboard box, 2 bagged, with three 5g D-packs in each bag; comes to about 2 humid summer months before moisture starts getting through the moisture barriers.


Ziplock gallon Freezer bags are definitely for short term storage and are not set and forget. Probably less time in nasty humid places like Florida or Mississippi. :hotdamn:

That's just my sample to contribute to the experiment.

Will be interesting which type of synthetic material you find to work the best.
:takingnotes:


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Offlinepolyflakes
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
    #26219356 - 09/29/19 10:25 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I have stored cracker dry mushrooms in quart glass jar with a little desiccant at the bottom for over ten years with no noticeable potency loss.


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26219702 - 09/30/19 06:40 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
I quit trusting the cracker dry snap test when i started doing this and found that certain types of fruits can appear to be "snapable" and still have water in them.




How accurate are you measuring? Not contesting, just comparing. Last couple dehydrator runs i've checked the last 2-3 hours, and i use my 0.1g scale and call it good enough once it stabilizes. I do have a 0.001g scale, and i'm highly doubting that it's necessary.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26219787 - 09/30/19 07:49 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Looking forward to seeing your results.

:popcorn: :takingnotes:

Vacuum sealed bag with a desiccant packet for me.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: DongBongSilvers]
    #26219831 - 09/30/19 08:16 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:threadmonitor:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McLovin333]
    #26219870 - 09/30/19 08:39 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Nice experiment Verum! :popcorn:
I' usually use glass,but when jars are slim,I double freezer bag them with a desiccant packet,and stuff the bags in sealed 5 gal buckets.


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26220123 - 09/30/19 10:47 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MLPismyOPSEC said:
Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
I quit trusting the cracker dry snap test when i started doing this and found that certain types of fruits can appear to be "snapable" and still have water in them.




How accurate are you measuring? Not contesting, just comparing. Last couple dehydrator runs i've checked the last 2-3 hours, and i use my 0.1g scale and call it good enough once it stabilizes. I do have a 0.001g scale, and i'm highly doubting that it's necessary.





0.00

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26220503 - 09/30/19 01:38 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: vikingleif]
    #26220670 - 09/30/19 03:01 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:camping:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: van hatton] * 1
    #26220764 - 09/30/19 03:52 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Just getting back to earth after eatting 3g of ten year old mushrooms which as I stated above were stored cracker day in a glass jar.  What a ride!


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: polyflakes]
    #26220842 - 09/30/19 04:17 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:camping: here for results! I'm curious about mason jars with vac lids too!


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: toadal]
    #26220943 - 09/30/19 05:10 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:camping:  time to set up camp boys

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Mystic E]
    #26221023 - 09/30/19 05:45 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:thisisgonnabegood:
I like half gallon jars with a desiccant packet or two. Stores 3oz gently or 4oz with crushing. I don't actually stash anything particularly long term. I'll definitely let my homies know the differences in the plastics cause if they or their homies are irresponsible I would be annoyed about it. My boy has been known to open vac bags of bud and just kind of roll it over and shove it under the couch no fucks given.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: toadal]
    #26221027 - 09/30/19 05:48 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

If you can bottle properly racked wine with the proper PH and alch content for decades you can put properly dried shrooms in a canning jar for decades if stored away from the elements.

I have 1.7 year old mushrooms sitting in pint jars in a room that maintains 10%-50% (winter summer) RH and they are as brittle as they day they were put in there. The D-pack inside indicates no moisture absorption ether. I also have 4 year old kilos of kratom jarred and it is still as crisp and effective as the day I jarred it.

Problem with jars is they take up lots of space so unless your powdering em, they are not very desirable.
A pint canning jar should easily hold about 5-6 oz of powdered mush with a little bit of packing involved.

Besides, we are humans and our destiny is to cover the universe with plastic!
That is why Jesus raptor gave his life for us! :raptorJesus:


--------------------
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Failboat]
    #26221188 - 09/30/19 07:05 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
I'll definitely let my homies know the differences in the plastics cause if they or their homies are irresponsible I would be annoyed about it. My boy has been known to open vac bags of bud and just kind of roll it over and shove it under the couch no fucks given.





Generally seems like people don't care at all about this info. Any time I try to explain stuff like this, nobody every remembers and I'm pretty sure they weren't even listening in the first place...

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26221273 - 09/30/19 08:05 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I had put ground coffee in Ziplocs a few times and everything within sight of the bag smells and tastes like coffee. The sealed freezer bags also fill up with water almost every time I put them in an ice chest, so I think those are good indicators that they aren't airtight for shit.

I've been using half-gallon amber mason jars, but that's not going to work long-term unless I powder everything. I just got some desiccant packs and oxygen absorbers because one jar is like a year's supply for me. Might try CO2 purging the ones that won't get opened for a while just because I have a tank for kegging.

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
I know what cracker dry means. Personally, i don't trust it. I dry until the fattest bastard quits losing weight.




Can't believe I didn't think of that. :thumbup: Something curious I've noticed is that some of the big mushrooms will bend slightly when hot, but then turn completely brittle when they cool to room temp.

A note on scales: accuracy and repeatability is usually relative to how much they cost. Just because they have resolution down to 0.001g doesn't mean they're accurate to it. I shelled out for a 200g  Ohaus lab balance that is calibrated, accurate, and repeatable to 0.01g. It was mainly for measuring doses, but I've put dry mush on it in humid air and watched the weight increase before my eyes.


--------------------
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Sir Pentinite]
    #26221335 - 09/30/19 08:52 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Psicomb]
    #26221359 - 09/30/19 09:17 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I used to vacuum seal an oz at a time but I've had quite a few expand over time and gain weight. Either the mush punctured the bag or they didn't seal properly. Everything goes in mason jars since. Takes up a lot of space and more expensive but better than tossing them.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26221372 - 09/30/19 09:32 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I always double seal on both ends and handle them gently.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26221377 - 09/30/19 09:35 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

It's user error, cheap equipment for sure. Can't fuck up a mason jar.


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Edited by Grimsweeper (09/30/19 09:35 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26221405 - 09/30/19 10:03 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grimsweeper said:
I used to vacuum seal an oz at a time but I've had quite a few expand over time and gain weight. Either the mush punctured the bag or they didn't seal properly. Everything goes in mason jars since. Takes up a lot of space and more expensive but better than tossing them.




The same with me.. A dozen one oz sealed packs all went soft in time. (6 month to a year).




Now I keep my sealed bags in a Costco pet food bin with a o-ring seal on the lid..



The bin is loaded with desiccant packs..



A 8 pound plastic bottle of Dry Home or Damp Rid from Costco work well for a desiccant...


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Edited by micelio (09/30/19 10:05 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26221406 - 09/30/19 10:04 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

My penis batch gained weight.  I put them back on the dehydrator.  Then they gained again.  I'm gonna keep em bagged in jars from now on
  They're still potent bastards.

Edited by Zero Nowhere (09/30/19 10:10 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26221422 - 09/30/19 10:19 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Oooo, I'm in for sure.

:waitingpatiently:


I'm a glass sealer + desiccant pack kind of guy. :twocents:


Thanks for sharing :super:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26225122 - 10/02/19 02:45 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

1. I just like to be clean, So, I wash.  Using a spaghetti strainer and shower head faucet (just seems to work better.)

2. Average time for your dehydrator with a max load? I use a different method/device.

3. Size doesn't equal water weight. Keep drying till they float.

4. On average a bad container will show within 7 days and if the fruits are put in cracker dry, there is a chance to salvage the bendy fruits for a second attempt before the risk becomes too great.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pickle jar pete]
    #26253209 - 10/15/19 07:15 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

:popcorn:
I'm just about to get myself a vacuum packer, so this is of interest to me :laugh:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: keeno]
    #26253233 - 10/15/19 07:36 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

The people talking about bags expanding and taking weight need to double bag. I always put fruits in a Ziploc first before sealing, no exceptions. The stems are very sharp and puncture the bag easily. Just load into a Ziploc, put in a straw, and snap the bag shut around the straw so it's the only portion open. Suck air out until it's tight enough and yank it out with your lips while sealing behind it. This will keep "air-tight" for a decent amount of time (double bagging is longer), but protects the vac-seal bag from being compromised. Done deal. Also looks profesh and cool when giving stuff to friends that doesn't need to be sealed.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26253234 - 10/15/19 07:38 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Fun. Tagging alone for the ride.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: newtomyc]
    #26253353 - 10/15/19 08:50 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

🤔

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OfflineSporePrince
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26265351 - 10/20/19 12:29 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Jar > vacuum bag
Glass and metal far less porous than even nylon is




It's true that glass and metal are less porous than plastic, but I think the air inside the jar will still have moisture which the mushrooms can absorb.

Maybe a system like this would help:

https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-vacuum-seal-a-mason-jar/

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26266891 - 10/21/19 08:50 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I like storing small amounts in a mason glass jar.

A simple way to put a vacuum In a jar:

Put your product into a jar and heat It up with a hair dryer/heat gun for approximately 1 minute or more.

Place metal lid and ring on jar and tighten.
You'll have a nice vacuum when jar cools..



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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: micelio]
    #26267234 - 10/21/19 11:23 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

For someone who just lost a pound recently to a small puncture in a gallon bag, I went kinda anal on testing things this year. I bought a vac-sealer too, which hasn't been as easy or foolproof as expected.

I bought a set of 8 amber half-gallon mason jars at the beginning of the year, and these have out-performed all my bags that I've tested. I stick a thin layer of desiccant packs across the bottom and load it with mushies. These are for my personal ones since they really waste a lot of space. They block out over 90% of sunlight and keep it air tight. They're my favorite.

I no go way overboad on other things: for anything I give away that's an oz or larger I will put in a ziplock, suck/press all the air out, then seal that bag (fuck just using the "zipper"), then I seal that bag in a proper vac-bag. I've had WAY too many "user error" complaints for storing these from people who will reach out a month later and be like "still good?" And I gotta be like "does it still snap when you bend it?"

Anyways, I'm going to go with jars too. I've been debating that (for personal supply) powderizing my dried fruits before loading them up into the jars so I can probably fit a few oz per quart. I worry that what I give away people will find issue with just getting powder... so it would be 100% for personal use. I already do this for anything that goes into pills for microdosing, I have a huge half gallon with all my "ugly" fruits in powder form (anything that was heavy spored on or that was crushed from other reasons).

I'm curious what the resutls will be. I'm voting mason jars.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: ShaperDreaming] * 1
    #26267349 - 10/21/19 12:09 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I'm still a bit curious about pulverizing before storing.

Wouldn't the greatly increased surface area greatly increase the absorbency? So, any time you expose them to a normal atmosphere, their spoilage rate would be thusly increased?

Maybe it's less significant than I'm assuming. I encapsulate all of those I powder, so I really don't have any personal input beyond theory.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: footpath]
    #26267383 - 10/21/19 12:24 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

5 mil Quart mylar bags, oxygen absorber and desiccant in each then heat sealed works very well long term for an oz

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: DredgeMyEyes]
    #26267389 - 10/21/19 12:27 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #26267971 - 10/21/19 05:39 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I think you're at a much greater risk of potency loss when you powder your fruits. Anyway, regular Ziploc (no zipper, those are terrible) and then vac-seal and you're good forever.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26268045 - 10/21/19 06:06 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

stareatclouds Thanks for the tip..

I used 3 sandwich bag for each ounce, I did 14 ounces last week.
2 ounces went into each vacuum seal bag. All the bags are rock hard.

That did the trick. You got to puncture proof each vacuum bag so not to get any pin holes.
 
It wasn't necessary to try to vac the sandwich bags just the vacuum bags.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26253233#26253233


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: micelio]
    #26268099 - 10/21/19 06:41 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

No doubt. And it should go without saying that you should double-check the vacuum-sealed bags throughout storage and especially soon after sealing. My sealer kind of sucks and I'd say 1 out of every 8 or so bags starts inflating after. The Ziploc keeps them safe for the time being so it's whatever, just sucks.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26268130 - 10/21/19 06:53 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Those zipper ziplocks do suck :lol:

I had a good sewer at one point. But like stare said, after a while some of them reinflate. The sealer I have now is awesome though it works fantastic. It is new though. With time all things may fail at some point.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26268189 - 10/21/19 07:14 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ShaperDreaming said:
For someone who just lost a pound recently to a small puncture in a gallon bag





What do you mean by lost a pound?

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mushboy] * 2
    #26268223 - 10/21/19 07:27 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:
They'd have to be pretty far gone for me not to throw them back in the dehydrator and check potency once dry. Were they moldy?

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26268224 - 10/21/19 07:28 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I'd just double the dose:spaceman:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mushboy]
    #26268532 - 10/21/19 09:17 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I was wondering about that also.. usually find bendy shrooms to still be plenty potent, even after long term

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pixelpopper]
    #26268814 - 10/22/19 01:26 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Unless you're storing them in a swamp, even a compromised bag shouldn't even come close to ruining the fruits. They'd likely be a little bendy and just need to be dried again. The jury is still out on potency loss in that scenario AFAIK so at the worst, I'd just dehydrate them again and sprinkle them evenly into the next bags.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26269161 - 10/22/19 08:41 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you, this is very helpful. I had my first few batches stored in zip-seal bags and they went bendy very quickly. I re-dried them and stored in glass mason jars and they're still cracker dry a month later. Is potency likely to degrade much in cracker-dry fruits, in a few months say? I don't get much chance to trip these days but I hope they'll still be good when it's time to get them out.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Tattersail]
    #26269242 - 10/22/19 09:24 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:popcorn::takingnotes:

I was originally planning ziplock freezer bags inside a jar with some silica packs. Still sounds like a good option.

What I'm reading makes me a little worried about the only 20g I have left (still haven't gotten my first grow in) sitting in a freezer bag in the cupboard with like 30g worth of silica packs. I should get a jar....


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Edited by McDominator (10/22/19 09:29 AM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26269680 - 10/22/19 12:36 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Your fruits will be fine forever if they're kept away from moisture. A Ziploc bag alone won't do that as they're porous, easily compromised, and will eventually take in air. They're good for short-term with the air sucked out and double bagged. A mason jar with a desiccant pack is perfect long-term. Once you run out of jars, you'll look into sealers.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26269741 - 10/22/19 01:11 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Your fruits will be fine forever if they're kept away from moisture. A Ziploc bag alone won't do that as they're porous, easily compromised, and will eventually take in air. They're good for short-term with the air sucked out and double bagged. A mason jar with a desiccant pack is perfect long-term. Once you run out of jars, you'll look into sealers.




Thank you. What would you consider short term? A few months?

What would you recommend for a sealer?

Lots of great info in this thread. And still eager to see the results of the experiment :smile: Good science is repeated science. I appreciate you taking the time verum.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26269760 - 10/22/19 01:20 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I like to use freezer bags put into big azz pickle jars when I run out of mason jars. I like pickles

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pixelpopper] * 1
    #26269874 - 10/22/19 02:04 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pixelpopper said:
I like pickles




:lmafo:

I laughed harder at this than I should have. Reminded me of the I like turtles kid.



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Edited by McDominator (10/22/19 02:05 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator] * 1
    #26269937 - 10/22/19 02:30 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

i laughed too but my brain just went to gay jokes.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26270063 - 10/22/19 03:45 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

interested to see numbers over time :thumbup:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Tattersail]
    #26270117 - 10/22/19 04:19 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tattersail said:
Thank you, this is very helpful. I had my first few batches stored in zip-seal bags and they went bendy very quickly. I re-dried them and stored in glass mason jars and they're still cracker dry a month later. Is potency likely to degrade much in cracker-dry fruits, in a few months say? I don't get much chance to trip these days but I hope they'll still be good when it's time to get them out.




Like I posted earlier..

Take your hair dryer to the shrooms in the jar for a minute or two.
Place the lid on while hot. You'll have a nice vacuum in the jar when It cools down. Just tap the top of the lid now and then to check If you still have a vacuum.. 
You should have a vacuum for a long long time...


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26270297 - 10/22/19 05:51 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

McDominator said:
Thank you. What would you consider short term? A few months?

What would you recommend for a sealer?




Nah, short-term for Ziploc only is usually a night or so; transport basically to a friend or whatever. Beyond that, they slowly start taking on a bit of air IME. Double bagged, maybe a few nights? Not sure, it's been a minute. But you can definitely just look at it and tell if it's taking air and re-suck the air out of it as needed and reset the clock. 

The freezer quarts are pretty decent, actually, so you can reliably double bag those (or gallon) and just keep an eye on them. You're not going to ruin fruits like this, so don't worry.

For a sealer, I went to Amazon and filtered 4+ star review and under $100, I think. Found a decent little cheap one that works most of the time. And when it doesn't, I just run it again (it's usually me cutting bags too short, I think).

Trapping in a vacuum is overkill, especially with a method that seems like it could potentially trap condensation in there. Just get your mushrooms completely dry, toss in an air-tight and dry jar, throw in a new desiccant for good measure and you're done.

Also, cracker dry, i.e., snap when you bend isn't always 100% dry. I recommend weighing and checking back in an hour to see if they're still losing weight. I've always done cracker dry hand test and never had issues, but have recently noticed slight weight still coming off even w/ snap test. I weigh a whole rack after x amount of hours and compare later on.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26271359 - 10/23/19 09:14 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you for the detailed response my friend. I've had some mushies in a bag for 2 weeks now. Going to get them into a dehydrator ASAP and then into a jar :smile:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26271496 - 10/23/19 10:39 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:

Nah, short-term for Ziploc only is usually a night or so; transport basically to a friend or whatever. Beyond that, they slowly start taking on a bit of air IME. Double bagged, maybe a few nights? Not sure, it's been a minute. But you can definitely just look at it and tell if it's taking air and re-suck the air out of it as needed and reset the clock. 

The freezer quarts are pretty decent, actually, so you can reliably double bag those (or gallon) and just keep an eye on them. You're not going to ruin fruits like this, so don't worry.





This confused me a tad. I feel like you said, "just a night or so.... but you're not gonna ruin them so..."  I wouldn't really know how to take that if i were trying to learn.

I double freezer or storage bag mine any time i end up with an amount that doesn't deserve busting out the vacuum sealer. They just chill in the double bags in the cupboard until i make some more magic and get it dried. Once dry i'll dump the magic from the bags on top and let em run in the dehydrator a tad. Then they all get vacuumed and the cycle continues.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26271827 - 10/23/19 01:33 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Right, I was responding with what *my* short-term storage time is for a single Ziploc, not the timer on the safety of the fruits. Sorry for the confusion. I'll clarify:

Bagging is not the best for long-term, set-and-forget storage. However, double-bagging with the air sucked out can work fine with monitoring. Within a few days (guessing), you may notice the bag isn't as tight as it initially was. Yes, this is not optimal for long-term, but this super slow inflation process didn't just flash-kill your fruits. My air-tight jars I store 6-8 ounces in aren't devoid of air and they're fine.

You can keep Ziplocs working forever by keeping an eye on them and re-sucking the air out if need be. But if left unattended long-term, you're at greater risk. I don't trust Ziplocs longer than a few days before I check on them. You aren't going to ruin your fruits with this process.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: stareatclouds]
    #26271851 - 10/23/19 01:47 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

:goodday:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26407073 - 12/30/19 12:12 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Updated op with

Edit 12/29/19

Alright fellow rainbow farmers. It's been 3 months and i thought it time to check in on things. The results are not what i was expecting but here we go.

snack bag

Was 3.93 G
Is 4.10 G
Gained .17 G

storage bag

Was 7.64 G
Is 7.93 G
Gained .29 G

Freezer bag

Was 15.08 G
Is 15.40 G
Gained .32 G

Hefty slider bag

Was 24.49 G
Is  24.81 G
Gained .32 G

Out Of Air vac seal bag

Was 17.77 G
Is 18.13 G
Gained .36 G

Mason Jar

Was 277.59 G
Is 277.47 G
LOST .12 G
(what the fuck)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26407078 - 12/30/19 12:17 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Appreciate the research verum. Ever since I had most of 2# go bendy in vac seal bags I started storing in mason jars with a dissectant pack. Looks like im on the right track.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26407097 - 12/30/19 12:37 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

I knew the ziplocs would allow some moisture. Ive had that problem with them before. Perfectly dry fruit bodies, have gone "Bendy" over time for me with those bags. The vacuum pack surprises me a bit though. Didn't expect that.

Ive had really good luck with Mylar for long term storage.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #26407100 - 12/30/19 12:43 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

I was surprised by the vac seal too. And i can't understand how the jar lost weight.

Edited by verum subsequentis (12/30/19 12:43 AM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26407228 - 12/30/19 04:29 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
I was surprised by the vac seal too. And i can't understand how the jar lost weight.




Maybe your scale isnt that accurate and you should account for a +-0.1 g of error?

If vaccum sealed performed as good as a ziplock then should we bother about either? At least for up to a year storage?

Fuck me, i have about 40 grams in ziplock bags


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Sankhara]
    #26407264 - 12/30/19 05:03 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Awesome. Thanks Verum, this thread is the shit. I agree that perhaps that was a weighing error initially or the scale gets jumpy perhaps.

I just finished my first grow. Sorted into quart freezer bags by the oz. Stuffed into gallon sized jars which have like 20g silica each. Not. Fucking. Around. :smile:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26407284 - 12/30/19 05:21 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Ya dont see how a Mason jar loses weight...

I just bought a 100$ food saver for my mushies so I'm kinda bummed about these results...

Verum:

You should try the food saver bags or what ever brand they were again but just seal it, dont vacuum seal it...

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: SpunkyMonkey88]
    #26407393 - 12/30/19 07:49 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

By the by, percentage gain is as follows;

Code:

snack = 4.3%
storage = 3.8%
freezer = 2.1%
slider = 1.3%
vac seal = 2.0%
jar = -0.04%



I'm pretty shocked that the slider bag gained the least, not shocked that the jar outperformed the others. I'm considering the weight loss as a zero percent gain, especially since it's an insignificant gain anyway.

Edited by MLPismyOPSEC (12/30/19 07:50 AM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #26407594 - 12/30/19 10:44 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

I was about to do percentages but realized that it's a bullshit number because it involves the weight of the container. So, it's not the number we want. True percentage increase/ decrease will be calculated at the conclusion of the experiment. Then we'll weigh the fruits without their respective containers. I think maybe a year or five should do.

I appreciate all ya'll being concerned about my not knowing how to use a scale but... I weigh things quite often and quite accurately. i'll allow that this scale is a bit jumpy if there are wind currents, the scale is on an uneven surface, or the item being weighed is cooling down. Other than that, she reads pretty fucking true

That being said, I am human and do mess up (sometimes). It's all good. They went back in the cupboard and we'll check again "soon".

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26407615 - 12/30/19 11:03 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Maybe the scale just needed a cooling down.

That started off as just a bit gabby but in the time it took to type it, I wonder if maybe that could show you some inaccuracy - the temperature of the unit itself.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26407616 - 12/30/19 11:03 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Thanks for posting all those results, verum..!

Do you think it could make a difference doing it where the shrooms are weighed before being put in a bag and then after a period of time taking them back out of the bag and weighing them instead of with the bag weight too?  It is just strange how the vac sealed gained that much weight.

Footpath, that's an interesting thought...


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Edited by Psicomb (12/30/19 11:05 AM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: footpath]
    #26407640 - 12/30/19 11:18 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

footpath said:
Maybe the scale just needed a cooling down.

That started off as just a bit gabby but in the time it took to type it, I wonder if maybe that could show you some inaccuracy - the temperature of the unit itself.




I think he should throw a calibration weight it every time he weighs a bag to eliminate that chance...

Also I think it's weird the vacuum sealed bag would have gained weight while it still looks tight AF...

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Psicomb] * 1
    #26407646 - 12/30/19 11:24 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

The jar could have lost air from balancing to a different temp/pressure.
A bit like a closed plastic water bottle opened at a high atmosphere and then closed again will weigh ever so slightly less than one opened and closed at a low atmosphere, only unlike the plastic of the bottle or the bags the glass is able to resist being lightly crushed.  These differences can affect dew points, so the jar might have lost water vapor over time as well, as the difference slowly pushed the water out.

(At least that’s my educated guess, there’s also things like rust and dirt residue, but really humanity has had to move to  physical constant based measurement systems as the physical weights we’ve previously based things on have been slowly but noticeably diverging in weight and no one’s sure why... so quantum fairies is another less likely but still possible reason.)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: StygianKnight]
    #26407653 - 12/30/19 11:35 AM (5 years, 19 days ago)

hell yeah. thanks for taking the time on this, very cool.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: trubblesome]
    #26407678 - 12/30/19 12:04 PM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Thank you for the writeup! I was considering a vac sealer, but I think I will stick to the half gal jars.

Has anyone seen a noticeable difference using jars with and without desiccant?

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FunnyFungiName]
    #26407713 - 12/30/19 12:28 PM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

FunnyFungiName said:
Has anyone seen a noticeable difference using jars with and without desiccant?




Nope. All you need is love jars.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26407721 - 12/30/19 12:32 PM (5 years, 19 days ago)

"Quantum Fairies"...

:takingnotes:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #26408063 - 12/30/19 04:06 PM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Fairly interesting verum. Mason jars are made of magic. That explains everything. They are filled with magic, rainbows 🌈 and sprinkles.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: eatyualive]
    #26408222 - 12/30/19 05:50 PM (5 years, 19 days ago)

Most scales need to be calibrated .  I assume you are recalibrating periodically.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26408320 - 12/30/19 07:10 PM (5 years, 19 days ago)

:takingnotes:
Thanks for putting in the time V.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: NothingsChanged]
    #26408864 - 12/31/19 07:14 AM (5 years, 18 days ago)

good work, mr. subsequentis.

wrt to the mystery jar loss. you're talking about a 0.04% deviation from the previous value. a $15 scale from amazon won't be so precise. could be affected by things as small as the difference in the voltage of the batteries. to account for this, you could weigh each bag daily and plot the results over time.

for those lamenting your vacuum sealer purchases, i'd suggest not returning them. i have shrooms that have been vacuum sealed for six years that are as strong today as the day i packed them, stored in vacuum bags in very non-ideal conditions. if you have a mind to store for a far off rainy day, vacuum bags work. and they work for lots of other things.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #26409035 - 12/31/19 09:39 AM (5 years, 18 days ago)

I feel ya on some of that. I wouldn't advise anyone to return or quit using their vac bags.

I understand why you'd talk shit on the scale but I've weighed a ton  of shit with this scale and have tested it's accuracy pretty fucking thoroughly.  It's proven true to +/- .01 over and over. It is possible that the weight of the jar is causing the scale to go wonky. I haven't tested it for accuracy with much weight. The real test will be when we open up the containers and weigh the fruits

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26409084 - 12/31/19 10:10 AM (5 years, 18 days ago)

"Jars are made of magic" ... :takingnotes:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26409085 - 12/31/19 10:12 AM (5 years, 18 days ago)

Did they all still feel cracker dry after 3 months or did some of those fruits start to get bendy?


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Psicomb]
    #26409125 - 12/31/19 10:44 AM (5 years, 18 days ago)

the bags feel bendy but we'll find out more on the next test. still contemplating how long to let it ride

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26409132 - 12/31/19 10:47 AM (5 years, 18 days ago)

:rockon:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Psicomb]
    #26409269 - 12/31/19 12:32 PM (5 years, 18 days ago)

I love my jars, they make me feel safe  :rockon:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26409644 - 12/31/19 05:14 PM (5 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
I feel ya on some of that. I wouldn't advise anyone to return or quit using their vac bags.

I understand why you'd talk shit on the scale but I've weighed a ton  of shit with this scale and have tested it's accuracy pretty fucking thoroughly.  It's proven true to +/- .01 over and over. It is possible that the weight of the jar is causing the scale to go wonky. I haven't tested it for accuracy with much weight. The real test will be when we open up the containers and weigh the fruits




nah, not talking shit. it's harder to tell if a beer can is an ounce light when it's weighed on top of a full keg. that's very nearly the proportion we're talking. precision like that costs money.

deffo eager to see your results. jars _are_ made of magic.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #26409735 - 12/31/19 06:25 PM (5 years, 18 days ago)

for sure.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: InfiniteDreams]
    #26409840 - 12/31/19 07:52 PM (5 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Most scales need to be calibrated .  I assume you are recalibrating periodically.



The majority of digital scales use a type of load cell and ‘spring’ arm that doesn’t really need to be calibrated unless for extremely precise amounts or if used heavily.

People often think there’s a coiled spring in them but it’s really the spring or elastic nature of a metal that’s being referred too.  As long as it stays in its spring state the metal can be deflected (bent) and return back to its previous position.  Bent beyond this state it enters a plastic state where the bend will partly or fully ‘set’ and the metal wont return.  Too far and it breaks all together.

As load is applied the deflection of the spring metal may not be exactly linear and that is taken into account for in the original calibration, which should still be good for the vast majority of people’s scales.

There seem to be two basic calibration options.  If your scale asks you for progressively larger weights then it’s checking this deflection curve as more weight is applied.  If it just asks for a single weight then it’s mostly checking that it hasn’t been damaged.  Which is why the single weight is almost always at or close to the max capacity to fully stress the sensor and it passes or fails the test.

However it may also do what is in effect a ‘global tare’ and just accept your, say 100g, weight as the new 100g, which is potentially a great way to screw up your future weights if you guesstimate a hand full of dirty pennies like so many internet life hacks suggest.  Since this is ultimately your scale passing off accuracy onto your weights, this is best if you have a set of highly accurate weights.

Which is a whole lot to say, don’t massively overload your scale or slam things down on it, and it shouldn’t need to be recalibrated in years.  Having multiple scales with different weight ranges is better than always maxing out one scale. 

Do however change the batteries often, as they age the voltage drops on alkaline batteries and when too low it can affect measurements while still giving enough power to turn on.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: StygianKnight]
    #26409845 - 12/31/19 07:54 PM (5 years, 18 days ago)

i always double check my scale with the ol nickel test. nickels weigh 5g :awesome:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26939929 - 09/16/20 11:42 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I realize this threads a bit old at this point, but it's a great source of info.

I love thoughtful experiments like this.
BIG Kudos to Verum !!!
Well done !!
:snoopyes:

Reading through this whole thread I think the verdict for long term storage seems like mason jars with desiccant packs.

Though a few folks touched upon the possibility of pressure sealing mason jar on top of this. overkill? I think it may add even more piece of mind...

thinking of 3 ways to do this

#1

Micelio mentioned a technique a few times during this thread...

A simple way to put a vacuum In a jar:

Put your product into a jar and heat It up with a hair dryer/heat gun for approximately 1 minute or more.

Place metal lid and ring on jar and tighten.
You'll have a nice vacuum when jar cools..


#2
and Bod referenced a link
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-vacuum-seal-a-mason-jar;


#3
you can get an attachment for some vacuum sealers that seals mason jars ...


#1 looks the easiest, cleanest, and least expensive, but the cooling inside wont create moisture or anything, or become too hot and kill the potency, correct?
#2 doesn't appeal to me too much - too DIY ( added parts on each jar / drilling / possibly prone to error )
#3 would work - but looks expensive and I think you need a particular brand of sealer

anyone tried any of these techniques?
or do most people vacuum sealing jars is overkill?
also would be curious to hear a modern opinion on freezer vs no freezer.

thanks + the more data points we have the better we can know what is proven to be effective.

Edited by mistermushly (09/17/20 03:21 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #26941448 - 09/17/20 10:04 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I think vacuum sealing jars is a bit overkill but i'm sure it works well. This post is a bit old but that's kind of the point. It only counts if i leave them all sitting for a good while. I still have all the shit and am almost ready to take the final weights and update the post.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26941465 - 09/17/20 10:16 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I never would have thought about that with the batteries...  Thanks for that tidbit. :thumbup:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26941603 - 09/18/20 01:03 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
I think vacuum sealing jars is a bit overkill but i'm sure it works well. This post is a bit old but that's kind of the point. It only counts if i leave them all sitting for a good while. I still have all the shit and am almost ready to take the final weights and update the post.




Nice Verum!
thanks for weighing in on vacuuming sealing jars, really value your opinion. besides that and sort of related, what's your opinion on freezing vs not freezing? It would make my life a lot easier if I didn't think I was losing potency by not freezing.

Really looking forward to an update of the weight results!
:takingnotes:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #26941854 - 09/18/20 07:14 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

If you take care to dry them thoroughly and seal them properly then i think freezing is overkill. I just dry until fully dry and then vacuum seal for long term storage. Gallon ziplock freezer or storage bags are ok for short term storage.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26942391 - 09/18/20 12:55 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Freezing also allows moisture from the outside of the bag/jar to be pulled into the bag upon opening, even if allowed to get room temp. even when freezing individual doses as to not needing to get in and out of frozen bags i still recall issues with potency lose/degradation at about the year mark. I no longer freeze but still vacuum seal individual doses when freezable. constantly opening and closing a storage container drastically reduces shelf life in my experience/opinion.
:2cents:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: NothingsChanged]
    #26942432 - 09/18/20 01:22 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

that all makes sense to me except the part about "even if you allow it to come to room temp." How does that work?

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26942601 - 09/18/20 02:46 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
that all makes sense to me except the part about "even if you allow it to come to room temp." How does that work?




I don't want to misrepresent NothingsChanged if I'm reading this wrong,
but I think he's referring to the condensation that forms on the outside of the glass(or bag) when taken out of the freezer into a warm environment.

If you open before acclimated to room temperature, condensation can potentially form inside the jar/bag as well

... also if the bag or jar has moisture drops on the outside it's easier to accidentally transfer that inside when adding or removing mush.

--- thanks for both Verum and NothingsChanged for the valuable opinions BTW.

Edited by mistermushly (09/18/20 02:54 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #26943054 - 09/18/20 07:48 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

exactly.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: NothingsChanged]
    #26961622 - 09/30/20 08:41 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Looking forward to the results!! Verum, it has officially been a year. Is it time?!?!!?

:awedance:

I just can't wait to refence this post on every "how to store" question. I've been storing POWDERED with good success in little baby single dose vials that fit 3.5g - 4g each and little baby desiccants  :awesomenod:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26961733 - 09/30/20 10:14 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I believe it is. I'm in the middle of a move at the moment but will get this did as soon as i get settled

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26965913 - 10/02/20 01:16 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
I believe it is. I'm in the middle of a move at the moment but will get this did as soon as i get settled




Sweet dude. Take your damn time, moving sucks.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26979390 - 10/11/20 01:52 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Well I guess I was wrong, but it makes sense. I knew the glass would be superior for gas exchange, but since their is so much air left in the jar without a vacuum, I assumed it wouldn't be better than the vacuumed sealed material. I'm really surprised the vacuum sealed material was that permeable.

Nice follow up. I will have to switch to jars with desiccant packets for my long term storage now!

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #26979447 - 10/11/20 03:59 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Posting so I can quickly find this thread to quote to people when they ask questions. Some high quality gems dropped in the body of this thread. I even screenshoted a couple for myself! Thx Verum and company!

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Funky Monkey]
    #26979901 - 10/11/20 11:58 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

:douchewink:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #26979905 - 10/11/20 11:59 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Messiah of Savants said:
Well I guess I was wrong, but it makes sense. I knew the glass would be superior for gas exchange, but since their is so much air left in the jar without a vacuum, I assumed it wouldn't be better than the vacuumed sealed material. I'm really surprised the vacuum sealed material was that permeable.

Nice follow up. I will have to switch to jars with desiccant packets for my long term storage now!




Ummm. Don't jump the gun there friend.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26980293 - 10/11/20 05:06 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ummm. Don't jump the gun there friend.




Ummmmm. What's that suppose to mean? Your data is inaccurate??

The only reason I never used jars in the first place is for the air content in there and having no way to vacuum it out in my current/past circumstances. If the vacuum bags "leak" that much, they are much more pointless than worrying about the air in the jar if using desiccant.

Edited by Messiah of Savants (10/11/20 05:14 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Messiah of Savants] * 1
    #26980751 - 10/11/20 11:50 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I'm just saying that the real test will be taking the fruits out and comparing  their final weight with the original and that hasn't happened yet

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26980830 - 10/12/20 02:35 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

to clarify...
a small scale test was done but the big ( year long ) findings are yet to come -

Really looking forward to the results!


also ( Messiah of Savants) I posted a compilation of 3 techniques to create a vacuum seal on masons about 20 posts ago.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #26981839 - 10/12/20 04:09 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I really appreciate your dedication to this little test. Looking forward to seeing the final results.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: unsightlyrogue]
    #26981844 - 10/12/20 04:13 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

thanks

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26981865 - 10/12/20 04:26 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Wonderful thread to find. Thx


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26981916 - 10/12/20 04:53 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

i'm eager to see the 1 year results too.

verum, you should buy another brand new scale of the identical model and see if it shows a different value. sometimes those inexpensive scales can drift over time. you should also buy one that is a different model just to confirm.

j. jack flash had some great comments on page 6 that sums it up.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26981944 - 10/12/20 05:11 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

great points.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26982114 - 10/12/20 06:46 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
i'm eager to see the 1 year results too.

verum, you should buy another brand new scale of the identical model and see if it shows a different value. sometimes those inexpensive scales can drift over time. you should also buy one that is a different model just to confirm.

j. jack flash had some great comments on page 6 that sums it up.




Why buy a new scale? Just use the calibrating weight that comes with it to see if it's still on point. Or use a nickle. Those are usually 5 grams within .02

XOXO


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Becky G. Spot]
    #26982124 - 10/12/20 06:53 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

because after a year of putting items on your scale, picking it up, setting it down on the table, and maybe dropping it a few times, the scale starts to not be as accurate as a brand new scale. they don't last forever. buying a new scale of the same model will tell you if your old scale is still accurate. and at a cost of only $15 it seems like a good precaution to rule out the scale accuracy skewing the results of the experiment.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26982132 - 10/12/20 06:58 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I understand that can happen to scales, but it doesn't happen to the calibration weight right? That is a constant. Isn't that what it's for? To make sure that after XYZ amount of use and abuse you can check to make sure it's still dialed in? Otherwise why would lab and home scales alike come with a calibration weight?

I started selling weed when I was 12 years old. I've had scales fail, but never the calibration weight.

XOXOX


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Becky G. Spot]
    #26982211 - 10/12/20 07:37 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

:fuckinawesome:


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: StygianKnight]
    #26982254 - 10/12/20 07:51 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

becky g spot, i'll just quote this comment again from page 6 in regards to calibration.




Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Most scales need to be calibrated .  I assume you are recalibrating periodically.



The majority of digital scales use a type of load cell and ‘spring’ arm that doesn’t really need to be calibrated unless for extremely precise amounts or if used heavily.

People often think there’s a coiled spring in them but it’s really the spring or elastic nature of a metal that’s being referred too.  As long as it stays in its spring state the metal can be deflected (bent) and return back to its previous position.  Bent beyond this state it enters a plastic state where the bend will partly or fully ‘set’ and the metal wont return.  Too far and it breaks all together.

As load is applied the deflection of the spring metal may not be exactly linear and that is taken into account for in the original calibration, which should still be good for the vast majority of people’s scales.

There seem to be two basic calibration options.  If your scale asks you for progressively larger weights then it’s checking this deflection curve as more weight is applied.  If it just asks for a single weight then it’s mostly checking that it hasn’t been damaged.  Which is why the single weight is almost always at or close to the max capacity to fully stress the sensor and it passes or fails the test.

However it may also do what is in effect a ‘global tare’ and just accept your, say 100g, weight as the new 100g, which is potentially a great way to screw up your future weights if you guesstimate a hand full of dirty pennies like so many internet life hacks suggest.  Since this is ultimately your scale passing off accuracy onto your weights, this is best if you have a set of highly accurate weights.

Which is a whole lot to say, don’t massively overload your scale or slam things down on it, and it shouldn’t need to be recalibrated in years.  Having multiple scales with different weight ranges is better than always maxing out one scale. 

Do however change the batteries often, as they age the voltage drops on alkaline batteries and when too low it can affect measurements while still giving enough power to turn on.




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InvisibleBecky G. Spot
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26982370 - 10/12/20 08:37 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
becky g spot, i'll just quote this comment again from page 6 in regards to calibration.




Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Most scales need to be calibrated .  I assume you are recalibrating periodically.



The majority of digital scales use a type of load cell and ‘spring’ arm that doesn’t really need to be calibrated unless for extremely precise amounts or if used heavily.

People often think there’s a coiled spring in them but it’s really the spring or elastic nature of a metal that’s being referred too.  As long as it stays in its spring state the metal can be deflected (bent) and return back to its previous position.  Bent beyond this state it enters a plastic state where the bend will partly or fully ‘set’ and the metal wont return.  Too far and it breaks all together.

As load is applied the deflection of the spring metal may not be exactly linear and that is taken into account for in the original calibration, which should still be good for the vast majority of people’s scales.

There seem to be two basic calibration options.  If your scale asks you for progressively larger weights then it’s checking this deflection curve as more weight is applied.  If it just asks for a single weight then it’s mostly checking that it hasn’t been damaged.  Which is why the single weight is almost always at or close to the max capacity to fully stress the sensor and it passes or fails the test.

However it may also do what is in effect a ‘global tare’ and just accept your, say 100g, weight as the new 100g, which is potentially a great way to screw up your future weights if you guesstimate a hand full of dirty pennies like so many internet life hacks suggest.  Since this is ultimately your scale passing off accuracy onto your weights, this is best if you have a set of highly accurate weights.

Which is a whole lot to say, don’t massively overload your scale or slam things down on it, and it shouldn’t need to be recalibrated in years. - Having multiple scales with different weight ranges is better than always maxing out one scale. -  (((Becky G.- Don't max out your scale on the reggie, or buy a bigger scale.)))

Do however change the batteries often, as they age the voltage drops on alkaline batteries and when too low it can affect measurements while still giving enough power to turn on.







Unless I am way off base here... My original comments stand. Your post kind of backed me up in some respects? :shrug:

I might be a dumb girl... I dunno.

XOXOX


--------------------
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Ditch the double standards boys. Girls like to have fun as much as you do.





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Offlinefootpath
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Becky G. Spot] * 1
    #26982430 - 10/12/20 09:04 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Let's just be confident that verum recognizes the potential unreliability of consumer-grade scales.
And let's be thankful that he dedicated himself to storing dried mushrooms in an assortment of common containers to periodically weigh them for us to see how the passage of time treated each.
It's, of course, not going to be a complete observation of concrete data, but it will be something more traced and tabulated than most are willing to or have the attention span/dedication to carry out.
Let's pay it back to him by not making this thread a monkey on his back shouting, 'but, what about the precision?!'

How many of us honestly do much more than throwing a nickel on their scale every once in a while? This is bounds ahead of that.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Becky G. Spot]
    #26982433 - 10/12/20 09:07 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Becky G. Spot said:
Quote:

FriedEgg said:
becky g spot, i'll just quote this comment again from page 6 in regards to calibration.




Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Quote:

InfiniteDreams said:
Most scales need to be calibrated .  I assume you are recalibrating periodically.



The majority of digital scales use a type of load cell and ‘spring’ arm that doesn’t really need to be calibrated unless for extremely precise amounts or if used heavily.

People often think there’s a coiled spring in them but it’s really the spring or elastic nature of a metal that’s being referred too.  As long as it stays in its spring state the metal can be deflected (bent) and return back to its previous position.  Bent beyond this state it enters a plastic state where the bend will partly or fully ‘set’ and the metal wont return.  Too far and it breaks all together.

As load is applied the deflection of the spring metal may not be exactly linear and that is taken into account for in the original calibration, which should still be good for the vast majority of people’s scales.

There seem to be two basic calibration options.  If your scale asks you for progressively larger weights then it’s checking this deflection curve as more weight is applied.  If it just asks for a single weight then it’s mostly checking that it hasn’t been damaged.  Which is why the single weight is almost always at or close to the max capacity to fully stress the sensor and it passes or fails the test.

However it may also do what is in effect a ‘global tare’ and just accept your, say 100g, weight as the new 100g, which is potentially a great way to screw up your future weights if you guesstimate a hand full of dirty pennies like so many internet life hacks suggest.  Since this is ultimately your scale passing off accuracy onto your weights, this is best if you have a set of highly accurate weights.

Which is a whole lot to say, don’t massively overload your scale or slam things down on it, and it shouldn’t need to be recalibrated in years. - Having multiple scales with different weight ranges is better than always maxing out one scale. -  (((Becky G.- Don't max out your scale on the reggie, or buy a bigger scale.)))

Do however change the batteries often, as they age the voltage drops on alkaline batteries and when too low it can affect measurements while still giving enough power to turn on.







Unless I am way off base here... My original comments stand. Your post kind of backed me up in some respects? :shrug:

I might be a dumb girl... I dunno.

XOXOX





:smile: this thread is talking about extremely precise amounts. also if you have a 1 year old scale and you're anything like me i bet your scale is heavily used. but remember we are talking about a $15 item here... it won't hurt to just spend the $15 on a brand new device and compare it with the old one to be certain.


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InvisibleBecky G. Spot
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26982446 - 10/12/20 09:18 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

footpath said:
Let's just be confident that verum recognizes the potential unreliability of consumer-grade scales.

How many of us honestly do much more than throwing a nickel on their scale every once in a while? This is bounds ahead of that.





Aligned with my original position. Agreed.

XOXOX

Quote:

FriedEgg said:
:smile: this thread is talking about extremely precise amounts. also if you have a 1 year old scale and you're anything like me i bet your scale is heavily used. but remember we are talking about a $15 item here... it won't hurt to just spend the $15 on a brand new device and compare it with the old one to be certain.




My scales are foot soldiers that have weathered many battles. Scales are "fifteen dollar items" that came with the means to double check whether or not you need a new one. Calibration is part and parcel with scale ownership. Regardless of what you do to the scale, the calibration weight stays the same. If it reads as the weight you know the weight in fact is, then why would you need further confirmation? Calibrated is calibrated. IF a 10 gram weight reads 10 grams exactly, then why would I replace my scale, or feel the need to buy another one to verify that my control weight weighs what it is supposed to.

No mater what you do to a scale, if it reads the exact weight that you know your calibration weight weighs, then it's calibrated.

Throw your money away on unnecessary things if you want too...

I'm a stripper. I love that shit. :lol: :hamsterdance:


--------------------
- Becky G.

Ditch the double standards boys. Girls like to have fun as much as you do.





Sisters if you find yourself hating, read my bio.

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Becky G. Spot]
    #26982464 - 10/12/20 09:37 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Nice closing statement. kek

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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26982489 - 10/12/20 10:03 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

i guess i don't have that much faith in $15 items. at the least i'd buy a new shiny calibration weight.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26982526 - 10/12/20 10:22 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I've been quite impressed with that little scale. I've been using it for years and it's been more that sufficient for everything i do. It's proven over and over again to be quite accurate. If it hadn't, I'd certainly bought a nicer one by now.

Footpath, as always, i appreciate your heart and words but i don't mind a little argument. So long as we all stay open minded and in pursuit of truth. However, I do hate it when it turn into a pissing contest. Ego rants kill my chub like clock work.

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InvisibleBecky G. Spot
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26982535 - 10/12/20 10:30 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Egos can be ugly and sexy at the same time.

Wield responsibly gentlemen.

😘❤️💋😆🤫


--------------------
- Becky G.

Ditch the double standards boys. Girls like to have fun as much as you do.





Sisters if you find yourself hating, read my bio.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Becky G. Spot]
    #26982538 - 10/12/20 10:34 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Right. I almost didn't use that word because it's rather undefinable and often misunderstood. I mean though ignorant pursuit of making oneself look good while accepting no logical conclusions... Or something like that.

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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26982544 - 10/12/20 10:39 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

i didn't think we were arguing or either of us were trying to look good :shrug:


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: FriedEgg]
    #26982546 - 10/12/20 10:40 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Did't say or imply that you were.

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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26982567 - 10/12/20 10:56 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:

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InvisibleMateja
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #26982569 - 10/12/20 10:57 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I like these writeups that have weight measurements and comparison data, it often produces these thin, long scrolly posts. Kinda looks retro in a way :bongload:


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OfflineMcDominator
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Mateja] * 1
    #26982900 - 10/13/20 08:08 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I have a theory, because my brain got bored and decided it wanted to figure out how a jar with mushrooms could lose weight.

According to this:

https://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae650.cfm

1 cubic inch of your typical air is about 3.05g. Seeing as there are probably multiple cubic inches in that jar (maybe a few?) it's possible to lose .12g pretty easily. If the jar had been warmer at some point then the air would have expanded. Perhaps the air expanded enough to pop the seal for a hot second letting a tiny bit of air escape, and then quickly sealing again once the pressure normalized. If this is the case, then on the final measurement of the materials we will no longer see the loss. To verify, it would be good to first weigh a nickel (or measured weight) to ensure the accuracy of the scale, then weigh the jar as it is once more, then weigh the material inside separately.

To double verify you could then put the material back into the jar, put the cover back on and weigh them together again to see if the weight is different than the initial weight of the jar plus the material. If it weighs a bit more again, then the only explanation that I could see is that the jar lost a bit of air somehow.

No argument necessary, just pure curiosity in effect! :grin:


--------------------
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InvisibleBecky G. Spot
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26982907 - 10/13/20 08:13 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: McDominator]
    #26982913 - 10/13/20 08:19 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I use these with a desiccant pack and they work well with my food savor. Adds a nice professional appearance and resealable after they been opened.

Foodsaver Compatible Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CXQQX2Q?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: D3_Myc]
    #26984250 - 10/13/20 10:40 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I dont trust the zippers I've had a lot of those fail over time. Not that specific brand though. Been using big rolls for a while now and manually double seal both ends with a desiccant pack.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26984380 - 10/14/20 12:55 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think those zippers are supposed to be air tight, thats why you have to seal above them. It is convenient to be able to close again once opened but definitely not for long term once torn open.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: pureshrooming]
    #26984508 - 10/14/20 05:16 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

The ones I linked are pre-sealed above the zipper with one those tear notches. You fill and seal it at the bottom.

Here’s some smoked and dried peppers in one



Depend on size you get. There’s a smaller size that’s a tight fit for oz. the 8x12 easily holds 2 possibly 3.

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OfflineInthepit
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27030648 - 11/09/20 07:04 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

What a great time to drop in on this thread.
I feel like I've just binge watched an entire
season of This Old Scale!        :laugh2:

Can't wait Verum!


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Inthepit]
    #27037264 - 11/13/20 03:24 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

is this going to happen?
:ohwell:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #27037495 - 11/13/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I had to move very rapidly in the middle of the night due to raging wild fires. I'm in a bit of limbo at the moment but it's been long enough. I'll surely get it did whenever i get settled somewhere. The longer the better, Right?

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27037528 - 11/13/20 06:24 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

ah-ha
sounds like the shrooms have been through a wild ride  :fireworship:
hope you are OK, are safe and didn't lose valuables during all that.

Myself, as well as all the weirdo's, nerds, stoners, and female strippers :lol: are really appreciative of the experiment and are looking forward to the results.

Popping em on a scale and taking measurements seems easy - but I suppose you may be separated from them, or in a space that isn't available to do that.

thank you for this!  and your valuable contributions here : )

Edited by mistermushly (11/13/20 10:57 PM)

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #27037630 - 11/13/20 07:17 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

I am indeed separated at the moment. Thanks for the kind words.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27037687 - 11/13/20 07:53 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Sending good vibes my friend. Hope you do not sustain any losses, luckily things are replaceable! Be safe :mushroom2::mushroom2:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27038198 - 11/14/20 05:06 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Here's wishing you safety!

I used to live in Costa Mesa and worked in Newport Bch,
it's hard to imagine what could burn there.

"the Silverado Fire"  map of fires

Edited by Inthepit (11/14/20 05:18 AM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Inthepit]
    #27038202 - 11/14/20 05:10 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Sending you and yours good vibes verum. Shit's scary af


--------------------
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27041271 - 11/15/20 09:12 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

how much does this amount of water gained affect potency?
which method do you use for storing after concluding this expirement?

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Phony Phone]
    #27041355 - 11/15/20 10:47 PM (4 years, 2 months ago)

This experiment has not been concluded. I use vac seal bags.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27041455 - 11/16/20 12:06 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Hard to beat vacuum sealed fruits. Plus it makes you look like a baller

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: fahtster]
    #27138967 - 01/10/21 03:35 AM (4 years, 7 days ago)

still hoping for the results from this  :hmm:

too late to return my food sealer at this point - but
I thought it was curious that the food sealer performed the worst
of the 3 ( this is a reference to the beginning of the thread
in which a mason jar, a ziplock, and a food sealer battle it out to see which can retain the least weight - and presumably the greatest potency )

On a relevant note to maintaining potency when storing, I did stumble across this thread which was interesting

in which EvilMushroom666 advises...


"Take your cracker dry fruits and place them into a 1 pint or 1L mason
jar. Next mix baking soda and vinegar in a large cup and let the reaction
take place. The reaction will produce carbon dioxide gas which you will
be replacing the oxygen in your container with.

Pour the C02 from the glass(as if you were pouring honey) into the jar
careful not to spill any of the vinegar and baking soda mix into the
jar. You obviously will not be able to see anything.

To test that all the oxygen has been replaced with C02 take a lit
match and place it into the jar. It SHOULD be extinguished if there is
no oxygen present.

Seal your jar, store in a dark dry place and your fruits will retain
potency for 1-2 years easily.
"

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Offlinemistermushly

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #27444468 - 08/26/21 11:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I hate to beat a dead thread - but was this test ever completed?
It would be great to know the results!

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #27444637 - 08/27/21 04:29 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mistermushly said:
still hoping for the results from this  :hmm:

too late to return my food sealer at this point - but
I thought it was curious that the food sealer performed the worst
of the 3 ( this is a reference to the beginning of the thread
in which a mason jar, a ziplock, and a food sealer battle it out to see which can retain the least weight - and presumably the greatest potency )

On a relevant note to maintaining potency when storing, I did stumble across this thread which was interesting

in which EvilMushroom666 advises...


"Take your cracker dry fruits and place them into a 1 pint or 1L mason
jar. Next mix baking soda and vinegar in a large cup and let the reaction
take place. The reaction will produce carbon dioxide gas which you will
be replacing the oxygen in your container with.

Pour the C02 from the glass(as if you were pouring honey) into the jar
careful not to spill any of the vinegar and baking soda mix into the
jar. You obviously will not be able to see anything.

To test that all the oxygen has been replaced with C02 take a lit
match and place it into the jar. It SHOULD be extinguished if there is
no oxygen present.

Seal your jar, store in a dark dry place and your fruits will retain
potency for 1-2 years easily.
"




You don't need an inert atmosphere.
And the co2 produced by vinegar+soda reaction is going to be full of moisture...

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Offlinemistermushly

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27445836 - 08/28/21 01:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That's good to know Bodhisatta, thanks-

I think the theory I suppose was depleting the air of oxygen.
I did try this trick in a mason jar and it was cool to see the lighter extinguish. I suspected that a Desiccant would clear up any residual moisture, though you may have a good point.

my technique at the moment for long term storage is a pack of desiccant in a mason jar - I no longer keep frozen - sometimes I use a heat gun to warm up the jar and it creates a vacuum seal as it cools - one of the tricks in this long thread...

I was very curious to know if a food storage bag actually was more effective - though I have my doubts, especially since the study was never completed.

What's your technique for long term storage if you have one Bodhisatta?

Edited by mistermushly (08/28/21 01:09 AM)

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly]
    #27528312 - 11/03/21 02:25 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I regret to inform you that a few different happenings in life led to this test never being completed. An unexpected move led to another unexpected move, which led to these fuckers getting lost in a mix of storage shit for quite a while. I did run across the bunch amidst the last move and was able to quickly check things out. One bag had popped open and the others had crumbled fruits. The snack bag still had a full piece of stipe available and it was far from cracker dry. I was hoping at least to weigh them but the powdered fruits would make it impossible to get exact answers. The jar was still good but I'm not sure where that ended up. Sometimes life's shit just doesn't go as planned.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #27528319 - 11/03/21 02:43 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

A plan is usually just a list of shit that doesn’t happen.. thanks for the update :thumbup:

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: fahtster] * 1
    #27528326 - 11/03/21 03:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Nice quote. I fully intended on finishing this but yes... best laid plans. I'm not sure who mishandled the bag but shit happens.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27529515 - 11/04/21 12:39 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I've learned a bunch from this thread and appreciate it.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #27529525 - 11/04/21 12:49 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
Nice quote. I fully intended on finishing this but yes... best laid plans. I'm not sure who mishandled the bag but shit happens.




Heh.. I have to check my vac bags every week or so.. sometimes they just spring a leak.  I put a couple bags in the deep freezer.. works well in case anyone wanted to know.. bet it adds a year+ on their longevity.  I’ll let you all know in a couple years how that pans out :lol:

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: fahtster] * 1
    #27530661 - 11/04/21 10:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

See ya in a couple years

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27535910 - 11/08/21 07:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Got some amber ball quart masons for anything really special I may grow. They are really dark. Probably can't make out exactly whats in them when used!

Also going to order some those vacuum seal bags you mentioned.

Thank for everything you do Verum! Killer experiment!


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Edited by Atomsplit (11/08/21 07:26 PM)

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Atomsplit]
    #27535947 - 11/08/21 07:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

For the people that worried about long term storage.

Vac seal whole cracker dried fruits in mylar food bags with both an oxygen and moisture absorber made for food storage. Store the vac sealed bags in amber mason jars under a nitrogen atmosphere and add some more absorber packs or vac seal the mason jars. Store at room temperature in a dry area, out of sunlight and extreme temperature fluctuations.

Or just eat them.


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #27536076 - 11/08/21 09:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Although it's admittedly a bummer that it didn't go to completion -

thank you for conducting the experiment Verum, with the community here in mind :smile:

I did pick up some helpful tricks and insight along the way.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: mistermushly] * 1
    #27536181 - 11/09/21 01:11 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

My pleasure.
We'll do it again someday.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27547691 - 11/18/21 02:02 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

A thought on glass jars: assuming they have a perfect seal and no GE, they will not gain any weight, BUT this doesn't mean that the fruits inside them haven't gained weight by taking up moisture from the jar's own air. Maybe if you had weighted just the fruits instead of the whole jar, you would have seen a slight weight increase.


For what it's worth, I think jars are the best storing method, but if you do that experiment again, I suggest measuring just the fruits.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: BeardedOwl]
    #27548141 - 11/18/21 10:15 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I did but it really doesn't matter now.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27567791 - 12/03/21 02:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I’ve made chocolates and stored them in the freezer over 5 years and they were as strong as fresh, also amber mason jars with a few  desiccate packs last just as long. How long are you guys trying to store them? 🤣

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Ill-bird] * 2
    #27580710 - 12/14/21 01:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Verum what up broham ?? And all you other cool dudes and chicks thought I’d say hello just searchin the forums for any info on potency loss ect but hope everyone is good be safe you guys


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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: Boogieman47]
    #27581208 - 12/14/21 01:48 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

What up boogie!

Verum; hope the moves all worked out in the end and that they are for the better, that's the more important thing. About the test, i keep my LME double bagged in freezer ziplocs. We all know how hydrophilic that shit is and it barely sticks to the bag 2 years later (on the nose, i last ordered it Dec 2019). So for my fruits i single freezer bag plus a small desiccant packet and not worry about it.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: MLPismyOPSEC] * 1
    #27582427 - 12/15/21 12:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hey boog. Nice to "see" ya. Hope you're doing alright.

MLP, Thanks for the details. I've also been quite impressed with the gallon freezer ziplocs. So long as the person sealing takes care to do it properly, they work pretty fantastically.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27775304 - 05/13/22 09:04 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I just came across this thread and thought I’d share my experience as a consumer a couple years back (now have been cultivating for the last few months).
My friend ended up getting knocked up, so she gave me her baggy of goods since she wasn’t going to be able to consume them throughout pregnancy and breastfeeding, so it’d be at least a couple years and she didn’t want them to go to waste. I threw them in my freezer in the ziploc bag, where they stayed for about 3 years. One evening we had a girl’s night, decided to pull them out of the fridge (we actually googled if the blue on the dried mushrooms was mold 😅), decided they were safe, and ate them. 20 min later, not even exaggerating, we were both feeling awesome! So, from experience, they stored perfectly fine and were still potent after being stored in the freezer for a few years.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: CharlizTherunicorn]
    #27795576 - 05/27/22 06:59 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

What kind of bag? Properly dried and sealed, they should last ages in the freezer.

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Re: verum's proper vs improper dried fruit storage test [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27797662 - 05/29/22 12:25 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Now I haven’t read the whole thread so this might have been mentioned before. But did you use a control weight to make sure the scale is not off? Sometimes dirt and whatever gets stuck between parts of the scale which would affect the readings. And your readings are all pretty dang close to each other except for the jar which is much heavier.

You’d need something that you know has a fixed weight, like a calibration weight https://www.amazon.com/Truweigh-Calibration-Weight-Class-Precision/dp/B07TN3PGBB/ref=zg_bs_4989308011_2/138-0039656-6956156?pd_rd_i=B086BKRZR7&psc=1

This way you can be sure your scale is not off and needs re-calibration. I’m just asking because I’ve had a similar scale with this issue before.

Good research anyway, I love this kind of stuff! :grin::thumbup:


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