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InvisibleAsante
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My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. * 3
    #26181278 - 09/11/19 08:06 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

First of all, I want to extend my minority solidarity to people who are transgender. I empathize with the struggle, the hard journey of authentic transgenderedness. I once wrote a tuturial on how to make estradiol blotter for a transgender friend who has since handed it down so, I'm sympathetic to the cause.

But, I see transgender, in most cases, as an illness.

Hold the phone. :standingby:

I define transgender as a discrepancy between body gender and brain gender, a discrepanjcy leading to dysphoria and a lifelong struggle.

I'm not saying that a person with a penis who feels they should be a woman, has a mental problem.

I'm saying that I believe that in most cases that the "gender settings" of the body and the brain are at odds, and that this constitutes the problem.

The body and brain were constructed due to differing gender blueprints.

Personally, and no offense to transgendrs intended, I see the reason for the increase in the transgender condition as being the presence of endocrine disruptors in the food and environment of pregnant women.

Endocrine disruptors, such as BPA are all around us in great quantity. A CD or DVD disc is 80% BPA, to name just one. Endocrine disruptors disrupt the balance of hormones.

Many endocrine disruptors cross the placenta.

Hormonal balances in the foetus regulate the development of characteristics.

The body and brain gestate at different times during the pregnancy.

I can totally see why external alterations in the hormonal balance in the foetus, such as by varying levels of endocrine disruptor levels, can lead to a higher incidence of the genderedmness of the body and brain being genuinely at odds.


So, to summarize, what I believe:

-Transgender is a physical condition, not something a person thinks but something that is a biological reality.
-Genuine transgenders are "born that way", the discrepancy they experience is genuine.
-increase in occurrance of transgender is due to increase of hormonal disruption during pregnancy.


Most Transgenders are not happy about being Transgender. A desire for the physical gender to match the mental gender defines their struggle. They are duped by this discrepancy, and this is why I consider this discrepancy an illness - because I see it as a valid medical condition that reflects a biological reality, which presents a great burden to them.

Therefore, I consider hormonal and surgical treatments, if desired, entirely justified.

When I deal with a person in everyday life I deal with their mind and not their physical genitals, so as a person is predominantly defined by their mind, it is the body that is at odds with the mind and that the mind's gender takes precedence.


That's my opinion in a nutshell.


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Anonymous #1

Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Asante]
    #26189167 - 09/15/19 04:40 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I believe I read that if transgender people (roughly 0.02% of the population) don't go through hormone therapy to reinforce their feelings/thoughts about their gender, something like 95% of them "revert" to seeing themselves as their birth gender after around their early 20s(after adolescence)

:shrug:


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26193194 - 09/17/19 04:43 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I think in addition to endocrine disruption, there's an aspect of acceptability.

Basically, people feel more free to speak their minds, instead of, as Anon#1 said, simply pushing it down and "acting the part". I spoke with an old (50's) gay dude that had a wife and kids a little while back, and he basically said that he felt no attraction to his wife and faked having lifelong ED to, uh, perform. Trapped himself in a marriage of convenience for the socially acceptable aspect and is now more or less stuck. Routinely cheats on his wife with other men. I kinda feel bad for his wife, hopefully she's doing the mailman or something.

But yes, pollution is going to affect people in all sorts of creative new ways we haven't yet considered. People have this weird idea that the effects we see on the animal kingdom won't affect humans, but this is just wishful thinking. Toxoplasmosis Gondolii from cats has been implicated in the rise of schizophrenia around the 1850s. Now, we see EDCs affecting gender balances is simpler animals like fish. Of course they're affecting us as well.


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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26193765 - 09/17/19 12:01 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

The main problem with trans is the dysphoria and the brutal and absolute rejection of ones genitals.

A girly femenine small and ugly guy with a small dick is fucked up, but he wont experiment the sensation of having the wrong genitals.

It is like, of you wake up tomorrow, same body, same face but a vagina. The idea sound terrific to me, i think i would probably suicide during the first day.

The hormonal threatments kinda work well if you are young enough or ftm. But the surgery is still kinda butchery, but there are reports of succes/satisfaction.


Nowadays however, we also have autogynephilia  and "nonconformist" genders. making the problem even bigger, putting in the same sack people with mental and physical problems tottally different.


The thing is, nowadays psychology has decided that it is easier to make them all change their bodies and genitals and give them still constant psychoteraphy and making them fit in a world in which they don't fit at all (nowadays, at least) than you know, making them "accept" a body they despise in the same way the small girly blablabla guy does while playing wow 24/7


Just my opinion, not all trans are tge same, not all treatments are valid, you cannot force the world to change because your feeling.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: living_failure] * 1
    #26194373 - 09/17/19 05:46 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

living_failure said:
...than you know, making them "accept" a body they despise in the same way the...




You know, a lot of those people "accept" with a .45 or a rope.

Which, on the one hand, really does work out from a conformist society lens. On the other hand...you cool with someone you know "accepting" their body like that?


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OfflineShroomerquest
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Asante]
    #26194384 - 09/17/19 05:50 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Transgender agenda


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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26194887 - 09/18/19 12:10 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

living_failure said:
...than you know, making them "accept" a body they despise in the same way the...




You know, a lot of those people "accept" with a .45 or a rope.

Which, on the one hand, really does work out from a conformist society lens. On the other hand...you cool with someone you know "accepting" their body like that?





No i mean, im just saying the attitude or treatments of medics and psychologist.

Since the cancer i have subclinical testosterone so medics dont give me trt. However a known guy who have a similar problem end up taking steroids and he has the best body ive ever seen.

Personally i advocate for improving ourselves, take risks and try to get what you want with tenacity. As long as you understand the risk and are ready to accept failure everything is valid.

However, most of trans also have anxiety, social and compulsive illness. Most of new trans, mtf have autogynephilia and have a similar suicide rate after transitioning(surgery) than before. That is because the decision of change gender is being made in a insane state of mind, making the decision reckless.

Also you have to take into aaccount that when a young guy do it, it might be a reckless and incorrect decision. and when a grown man do it, usually is too late to be what is known as "passable".


Also. my ex, who i still love, was a mtf. But more on the dysphoric side than autogynephilia, still, autogynephilia was totally relevant.


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OfflineFiddyYearsDark
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: living_failure] * 1
    #26195025 - 09/18/19 05:11 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

IMO the M/F binary is grossly overstated in our society, both from a biological and historical/cultural perspective. There's much more gray than black and white.

Transgender is increasing because it's more accepted (although not fully accepted) and a bit safer (although murder of transpersons is still way too common.) So more people feel that they can stop hiding who and what they are.

I think that in general modern society is moving more towards a "show me the harm" attitude when it comes to things that don't conform to the norms. A decade ago visible tats or odd hair would have kept you out of a lot of labs. Now I work with heavily inked persons with pink hair.

Same-sex marriage is the same IMO: it was legalized in the US and now many ppl are saying "oh damn, the earth didn't split in half. Huh."

(Still a lot of bigots and idiots out there, though.)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: living_failure]
    #26195062 - 09/18/19 05:51 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

living_failure said:
However, most of trans also have anxiety, social and compulsive illness. Most of new trans, mtf have autogynephilia and have a similar suicide rate after transitioning(surgery) than before. That is because the decision of change gender is being made in a insane state of mind, making the decision reckless.




Evidence of mental illness does not automatically make a decision reckless. The head physician at the clinic I currently work at has confided in me that he has been diagnosed with depression. Dude is in charge of five other doctors and several hundred patients. If mental illness was automatically evidence of reckless behavior, there is no ethical way that he could be put in charge of literal life and death (he's a spinal trauma specialist) situations.

This also discounts the possibility of "normal" reactions to being trans being labelled as "mental illness".

Quote:

FiddyYearsDark said:
IMO the M/F binary is grossly overstated in our society, both from a biological and historical/cultural perspective. There's much more gray than black and white.




I agree with this. One thing I was recently thinking about was the whole idea of gender reveal parties for newborns and gendered baby clothes. It's literally color-coded clothing so that everybody knows what the baby's genitals look like. I mean...WHY?


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Anonymous #2

Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26195095 - 09/18/19 06:30 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I tend to think the same about stuff like earrings and shit on babies. Like, cool. That either hurt or its something for them to swallow. And now no one has to *gasp* ask their gender. As if babies arent ambiguous by nature. The thing comes out looking like Yoda fucked your wife and people have the nerve to be offended when you can't tell if it's got a dick or not.


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Offlineliving_failure
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26195126 - 09/18/19 07:04 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

living_failure said:
However, most of trans also have anxiety, social and compulsive illness. Most of new trans, mtf have autogynephilia and have a similar suicide rate after transitioning(surgery) than before. That is because the decision of change gender is being made in a insane state of mind, making the decision reckless.




Evidence of mental illness does not automatically make a decision reckless. The head physician at the clinic I currently work at has confided in me that he has been diagnosed with depression. Dude is in charge of five other doctors and several hundred patients. If mental illness was automatically evidence of reckless behavior, there is no ethical way that he could be put in charge of literal life and death (he's a spinal trauma specialist) situations.

This also discounts the possibility of "normal" reactions to being trans being labelled as "mental illness".

Quote:

FiddyYearsDark said:
IMO the M/F binary is grossly overstated in our society, both from a biological and historical/cultural perspective. There's much more gray than black and white.




I agree with this. One thing I was recently thinking about was the whole idea of gender reveal parties for newborns and gendered baby clothes. It's literally color-coded clothing so that everybody knows what the baby's genitals look like. I mean...WHY?




Sorry for not correctly quoting, im on the phone.

I agree with you, mental illness doesn't imply reckless decision.
But heavy stressful situation while being mentally unstable is a perfect and hot soup of bad ideas.
I believe helping their mental state is prioritary over gender reassignment (and i do agree on gender reassignment). i know one case personally of someone completely fine and happy with a not working/butchered vagina and another case of a completely happy preop.
But there are cases in which a butchered vagina is a nightmare.

Until the medicine progress a little more, transitions are at least "suboptimal" with a few too much failures and risks.


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OfflineSuperfungi
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Asante]
    #26195852 - 09/18/19 01:54 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I have a theory about this. I believe a very rare set of people are born with a brain structure that doesn't "fit" with the body they are born into. Possibly a mutation similar to people born with extra limbs or both sets of genitalia.
    I also believe that this is extremely rare and overblown by the centerally controlled media, I.e. propaganda machine.
    What I see as more common now is social outcasts dawning the "tranny" cloak as a means to social acceptance that can never be questioned. I would never be surprised to see a hatchet man tattoo on a man in a too-too with a pink ponytail and 5 O-clock shadow bitching about being misgendered because someone called him sir. Transgender is a social construct.
  Although I do believe there are rare and sad cases of true transgenderism, I strongly believe they are overshadowed by a large number of men who would fair better in competition against women, and who demand zero critisizm.
    In essance, I'm pretty sure these guys are more of a movement than a group.


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OfflineShroomerquest
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Superfungi]
    #26195944 - 09/18/19 03:05 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I’m confused...I think I’m a tree :trippinbawelz:


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Superfungi]
    #26196135 - 09/18/19 05:12 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Superfungi said:
I have a theory about this. I believe a very rare set of people are born with a brain structure that doesn't "fit" with the body they are born into. Possibly a mutation similar to people born with extra limbs or both sets of genitalia.




OP theory is the same, except with this mutation becoming more common due to pollution, specifically, that of endocrine disrupting chemicals which mimic hormones.


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Asante] * 3
    #26215606 - 09/28/19 09:20 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Can you provide any links to science that proves that gender comes from our brains? I've never heard of such, and I've done a lot of research of late. Most articles point to very rare cases of chromosomal abnormalities that you find with intersex people and a few other rare cases that don't seem to affect development of sex.

Something I don't understand is this concept of "feeling" like a gender. I never "felt" like a woman. I just am a biological female human being, and as such my body behaves in ways that are beyond my control, or conscious thought - menstruation and pregnancy for example. Any female gender roles I have adopted I learned from my female caretakers and role models growing up, and I believe gender is a social construct while sex is a biological imperative.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: yogabunny] * 1
    #26216904 - 09/28/19 07:23 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Great to see ya yogabunny :wave:

And great question. One issue is transgenderism is so new, i doubt theres much resesrch on the subject. Secondly, it appears to be a psychological condition in my perspective, something akin to a body image disconnect. In order to analyze someones body image perspective, you have to use psychological means such as questionaire tests and maybe fMRI scans of the brain. To my knowledge, body image perspective of a person is not well understood by science so finding scientific papers on it could be difficult.


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OfflineTripsten
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26217548 - 09/29/19 06:03 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

See o want to believe that it’s just that it’s more acceptable
But then if there were already that many
By human nature would we not have made it acceptable already ?

Note I have no problems or even disagreements with transgendered ppl, and I also believe their struggles and feelings to be both real and therefore valid
But that’s an interesting point you bring up

But it’s a hard one
While it makes sense and I personally think at the least your ideas show a contributing factor
The TRUE indisputable causes may never be found
And so in matters like Trans Gendered increase I tend to take a Taoist approach and for the things which I can’t understans either by design of that thing or my own mind , I simply accept as here and rather wonder why , wonder how I can accommodate that


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OfflineTripsten
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: Tripsten]
    #26217552 - 09/29/19 06:07 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Also the big controversy and what ppl can’t seem to understand
Is that no one is claiming that some ones “physical gender” as you would call it , is different than how they were born
More we are now  in a society advanced enough to longer have to associate Gender with genital
When aTrans person tells me they are the opposite gender In my mind they are telling me that while they may have been born with. A penis , their societal role and personality is feminine and that of a woman
See it is the moving of gender to literal role as apposed to physical attribute at least the way I see it
And it’s appropriate in my opinion


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26217573 - 09/29/19 06:26 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Great to see ya yogabunny :wave:

And great question. One issue is transgenderism is so new, i doubt theres much resesrch on the subject. Secondly, it appears to be a psychological condition in my perspective, something akin to a body image disconnect. In order to analyze someones body image perspective, you have to use psychological means such as questionaire tests and maybe fMRI scans of the brain. To my knowledge, body image perspective of a person is not well understood by science so finding scientific papers on it could be difficult.




:wave:


I agree with you and because of that I don't really think it's fair to make any firm statements as to what is and isn't true and factual. I understand that Asante's post is a theory, but he did state that there is a disconnect within transgender people between their body gender and brain gender, and so I'm wondering where I can read more about what "brain gender" is. I've done a bit of research into this myself and it seems there is no conclusive evidence as of yet of differences between men & women's brains, but I'm open to learning more!

One thing I think we can agree upon is that sex is determined by developing (in most cases) with either XX or XY chromosomes, and as far as I am aware that is not something that can be changed postnatally by taking hormones or making bodily modifications. 

I personally think (and am pretty sure most science would back me up here) that sex is biological while gender is a social construct, thus sex cannot be changed but gender can, and I am fully supportive of gender non-conformity, and I do believe that exists on a spectrum.

I do agree that it is probably in most cases a mental illness, but I do not think that people who undergo hormone treatment and bodily modification actually are the sex they are trying to be, even if they present and "pass" fully because the chromosomes that determine sex cannot be changed.


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OfflineShroomerquest
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Re: My opinion on transgender and its increasing frequency of occurrance. [Re: yogabunny] * 1
    #26218245 - 09/29/19 11:42 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I’m under the impression it’s a mental disorder. Like body dysmorphia

Not being ignorant it’s just the mind is strange sometimes and can do strange things under certain circumstances


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