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 replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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 Grow Log | AA+ & Argentina | Agar>Oats>Coir | Unmodified tub  6
#26207258 - 09/24/19 06:53 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey  I will update this main post as well as post below to update the thread.
My last attempt at an unmodified monotub seemed to be going well but stalled after 100% colonization and became contaminated with bacteria soon after.
I'm suspicious about two aspects of that last grow:
1) The oats may have been too wet. I followed BOD's oat prep method: added oats to water, brought to a boil (took somewhere around 20 min), then boiled for 30 min. Then I let the oats dry in strainers overnight at room temperature before PCing them. This time I let the oats soak for 45 minutes as described here.
2) My metal Ball Jar lids were stuck on my spawn jars after PCing. I wonder if I may have contaminated my spawn jars when I was jerking around, struggling to get them open in order to inoculate them. This time I turned the Ball Jar lids upside down so that the rubber seal isn't in contact with the glass.
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GROW LOG
Growing AA+ and Argentina side by side.
Everything done in an SAB.
AGAR
- Spread a few drops of each strain from a spore syringe onto agar plates (500 mL water, 10 g agar, 7.5 g LME). (Transfer 0)
- Transferred a piece of each to new plates. (Transfer 1)
- Transferred several pieces to several new plates. Allow these plates to grow until the mycelium is covering ~2/3 of the plate, then store in the fridge until ready to transfer to oats. (Transfer 2)
OAT PREP
Last time I followed BOD's oat prep tek. This time I followed Eat's Easy Oat Prep, since he says that he's found that it results in the exterior of the oats being much drier than boiling the oats, as well as resulting fewer burst kernels. My experience with these procedure was the same.
- Bring 6L water to a boil
- Turn off heat
- Add oats to water (enough for 10 quart jars)
- Cover with lid and wait 45 minutes
- Strain oats and let them dry for 10 minutes, stirring frequently. Only drying for 10 minutes seems pretty short to me, but I'm going to give it a try. The exterior of the oats did seem much less wet than when I boiled them, so I was willing to give it a shot.
- Load 10 quart jars 2/3 full and PC 18 PSI for 2 hours
SPAWN
- Add 1/3 or 1/2 of a petri dish of mycelium to each oat jar (5 x AA+ and 5 x Argentina). Store at 75-80 F.
9/24/19
7 days after inoculation:
          
9/27/19
11 days after inoculation
 AA+
 Argentina
   
Too much condensation? Is Eat's method of drying the oats for a mere 10 minutes insufficient?
Argentina jars are 15-30% colonized, so I will shake them. Very hard to break up the mycelium, so I had to whack the jars against a folded up blanket ~10 times each.
10/1/19
16 days after inoculation with agar wedges
4 days after shaking Argentina jars
 
Argentina jars seem to be recovering well from the shake. Growth was just visible 24 hours after shaking and has since moved quickly. The yellow in the last jar is the dried out piece of agar.
10/9/19
24 days after inoculation
According to the generous feedback from the fine members of this forum, these jars are all slightly/pretty bacterial, but that isn't necessarily going to prevent fruits. Moving forward. Will give these jars a few days and then spawn.
Argentina
 
AA+
 
10/11/19
26 days after inoculation
Both Argentina and AA+ are ready to spawn, but I don't have a lot of time right now so I'm only spawning AA+, Argentina will have to wait until this weekend.
Here is the spawn halfway through breaking it up:
Smelled each jar, smells like fresh mushrooms despite apparently being quite bacterial.
Followed BOD's substrate prep. Weighed 650 grams coco coir and mixed with 3.25 L boiling water in a cooler. After 1 hour, mixed slightly (still so hot!) and left overnight. In the morning it was nice and warm. Tested field capacity and the coir seemed like it could use a little more water. I added ~250 mL water, mixed, and felt like field capacity was pretty good (3.5 L or 3.7 quarts water total). Mixed the coir and 5 quart jars of AA+ in a 54 qt Sterlite unmodified tub. Pressed down on the sides of the substrate to prevent side pinning. Placed the lid on upside down. The tub is setup next to a window to give it natural light during the day:
10/14/19
72 hours after spawning
Also spawn 5 jars of Argentina (30 days after inoculation) to 650 g coir + 3.2 L water (prepped via Bod's substrate tek) in 54 quart Sterlite unmodified tub.
Coir is a little drier than the AA+ tub but I suspect it's closer to field capacity.
All jars smell like fresh mushrooms.
10/17/19
Changed setup, got a 5000K CFL.
AA+ (left) spawned 6 days ago.
Argentina (right) spawned 3 days ago.
10/19/19
AA+ spawned 8 days ago.
You can see how the corners look very dry.
The beginning of knots seem to be forming between the drier corner regions and wetter central region.
      
10/20/19
AA+ spawned 9 days ago
Interesting how the corners are really puffy, is this associated with the surface being dry, or something else?
Argentina spawned 6 days ago
More detailed pics:
  
  
10/23/19
PINS
AA+ (spawned 12 days ago)
  
Argentina (spawned 9 days ago)
   
No side pins in the AA+ tub (at least not yet).
Tons of side pins in the Argentina tub, with a few starting to be visible on the surface.
Interesting because the amount of moisture on the surface seems pretty similar between the two. Although the AA+ tub definitely had more water added to the coir... it actually seemed a little over field capacity to my untrained eye.
10/25/19
AA+ (spawned 14 days ago)
Argentina (spawned 11 days ago)
10/27/19
Argentina
Spawned 13 days ago
First pins 4 days ago
   
   
AA+
Spawned 16 days ago
First pins 4 days ago
  
So far the thick corners are devoid of fruits. The only major difference between the Argentina and AA+ tubs that I can think of is that the AA+ tub has 650 g coir + 3.5 L water, whereas the Argentina tub has less water: 650 g coir + 3.2 L water. I still need to get a good sense of field capacity. When I squeezed the AA+ coir as hard as I could, I got a relatively heavy stream of water coming out of it... I decided to go for it and see how it turned out. I don't know if that's what's causing the thick myc in the corners, but I'll be sticking with closer to 3.2 L water next time (just a few drops when I squeeze the coir as hard as I can).
10/28/19
Argentina
Spawned 14 days ago
First pins 5 days ago
5:45 PM
10:45 PM
10/29/19
Argentina
Spawned 15 days ago
First pins 6 days ago
8:45 AM
1341 grams wet
Beyond satisfied with my first successful mono!
THANK YOU Bodhisatta for luring my lazy ass back into this hobby with your easy af monotubs!
10/30/19
AA+
Spawned 19 days ago
First pins 7 days ago
9:15AM
5:45PM
These turned out interesting. They grew more slowly than the Argentinas, but ended up getting much thicker/fatter, and had a greater total wet weight! The stems were hollow, which I believe I've read is a symptom of the substrate being too wet, which I suspected it may be.
Anyway, wet weight = 1375 g, even after leaving a few stragglers in the earth to grow a little more.
Edited by replyom (11/02/19 11:06 PM)
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie
 
Registered: 03/05/16
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 Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26207453 - 09/24/19 08:27 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26212253 - 09/26/19 08:53 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Day 11 after oats were inoculated with agar wedges.
I'm worried about the amount of condensation in the further along Argentina jars (see below).
The more mycelium growth in the jar, the more condensation (the condensation surrounds the mycelium).
Is it an acceptable amount of condensation? How much is too much?
AA+ Argentina
Too much condensation? Is Eat's method of drying the oats for a mere 10 minutes insufficient?
Edited by replyom (09/26/19 09:02 PM)
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie
Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26212280 - 09/26/19 09:11 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sometimes they just have condensation. As long as you're not getting pooling at the bottom they should be good ..
How much does your room fluctuate temps?
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replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: Boogieman47]
#26212310 - 09/26/19 09:24 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mycelium growth looks okay to you? No signs of bacteria? I can never tell what people say when they say spawn looks bacterial (except for when it’s obvious).
My AC is set to 80 when I’m at work and 75 when I’m home. Is that a problem?
Thanks!
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie
Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26212320 - 09/26/19 09:34 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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So far everything looks good to me .. and yes the high and then cooler temps will cause it to condensate pretty bad .. we try to keep everything around 70 .. I know its alot harder to do but 80 is a bit high the inside if the jars create their own heat so its actually hotter and can be a breeding ground for nasties
I think you will be good honestly
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replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: Boogieman47]
#26212338 - 09/26/19 09:50 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks very much for your help man. I will keep the AC at 75 (it's 95 degrees outside during the day so my gf would never let me keep it at 70 when we're out lol).
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replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26223540 - 10/01/19 09:46 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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9/27/19
11 days after inoculation with agar wedges
Argentina jars are 15-30% colonized, shake. Very hard to break up the mycelium, so I had to whack the jars against a folded up blanket ~10 times each.
10/1/19
16 days after inoculation with agar wedges
4 days after shaking Argentina jars
Argentina jars seem to be recovering well from the shake. Growth was just visible 24 hours after shaking and has since moved quickly. The yellow in the last jar is the dried out piece of agar.
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 Failboat
Fuck Up
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom] 1
#26223542 - 10/01/19 09:47 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: Failboat]
#26237178 - 10/08/19 08:12 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is this bounce back from shaking fast enough to feel confident that the jars are free of contamination?
Two of my Argentina jars were mostly colonized, but I was curious about the thick growth - I have read people mention that thick, "ice cream" growth is indicative of bacterial contamination.
So based on the gracious advice of users in other threads, I shook the two jars after taking the above picture, watching to see how quickly they recovered, which would tell me if they were clean.
Here they are 48 hours after shaking. The jar on the right is a fully colonized jar from the same batch for comparison (it colonized more quickly because it got a larger slice of agar).
  
Is this bounce back from shaking fast enough to feel confident that the jars are free of contamination?
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k5hd2y
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26237197 - 10/08/19 08:22 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would say you're good roll with it, brother. 
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Gan
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: k5hd2y]
#26237434 - 10/08/19 10:17 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just remember that a shake test isn't 100% foolproof for determining how clean your spawn is. 
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ChardRich
chardzard
Registered: 04/16/19 
Posts: 1,167
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26237489 - 10/08/19 10:36 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Am I the only one who thinks those are wet and bacterial?
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replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: ChardRich]
#26238107 - 10/08/19 02:49 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input friends.
Quote:
ChardRich said:
Am I the only one who thinks those are wet and bacterial?
Nope, see the conversation about these jars here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26237310#26237310
It’s really weird having some people saying “looks fine!” and others going into depth about bacterial contamination...
Consensus seems to be that thick, solid white growth like this indicates bacteria. It seems that this information is not very well known/shared on the shroomery. My AA+ jars look much more whispy, I will post a pic of them when I get home, maybe they’re cleaner.
Not sure where my contam is coming from. My oats certainly could be drier, which really makes me wonder why Eat’s tek says to dry for a mere 10 min... seems really wrong.
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k5hd2y
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26238136 - 10/08/19 03:00 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Honestly i think many people spawn bacterial jars and still get fruit. It's the moulds that scare me most.
Anyhow OP, Just be safe, don't g2g it, spawn it. And good luck!
Edited by k5hd2y (10/08/19 03:01 PM)
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Gan
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: replyom]
#26238137 - 10/08/19 03:00 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is well know and shared. Weirdly enough not on this post as much haha. But yeah I agree with you Chard, they look slightly bacterial. I think some of the confusion is grains can "look fine" for some things and be a no-go for others. For example, those jars look fine for spawning, but I wouldn't suggest g2g them.
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Cthulhu23
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: k5hd2y]
#26238164 - 10/08/19 03:11 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
k5hd2y said:
Honestly i think many people spawn bacterial jars and still get fruit. It's the moulds that scare me most.
Anyhow OP, Just be safe, don't g2g it, spawn it. And good luck!
 So much this.
I'm realizing that I've been spawning bacterial (slightly, I'd say) grain for over a year, not realizing it. I've had decent grows, too. So it's not the death knell some make it out to be. However, it's still something to try to avoid.
But yeah, don't G2G bacterial spawn. That just perpetuates the problem. And, gives you things like this:
For those of you asking "what's the problem with that jar?" The mycelium is SUPER thick and looks like melted ice cream. There's water pooling in the bottom of the jar. Bacterial AF.
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McLovin333
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: Cthulhu23]
#26238280 - 10/08/19 04:08 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Searching the Unknown
  
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ChardRich
chardzard
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: Cthulhu23]
#26238315 - 10/08/19 04:28 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Only time I ever got trich was from a sketchy looking bacteria jar, so I never spawn them anymore.
But yes, I see tons of people manage to fruit them on here 
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replyom
Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 344
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Re: AA+ & Argentina Agar>Oats>Unmodified Tub Grow Log [Re: ChardRich]
#26238506 - 10/08/19 05:56 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you everyone for your thoughts!
@Cthulhu23, thanks for that picture, there should be a thread full of pics so that people can recognize bacterial vs. clean spawn.
I'm surprised no one said anything about my first pictures of my jars as they were first starting to be colonized -- the myc was SUPER thick from the very beginning. But it's good to know my grow could still turn out okay. I'm not planning on doing g2g until I'm working with clones.
Here are three of my fully colonized AA+ jars. If you compare them to the fully colonized Argentina jar above, you can see that the myc is much less thick, much less like ice cream. I have been thinking that this was just a difference between the two varieties - and maybe it is.
How do these look to you all? Any less bacterial?
  
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