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OfflineBristolRob
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Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment
    #6570805 - 02/15/07 01:36 PM (17 years, 5 days ago)

What are you thoughts on high dose psilocybin with facilitative psychotherapy for the treatment of alcoholism?

Has anyone been influenced to give up the bottle through a particularly profound psychedelic experience?


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OfflinePsy Baba
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: BristolRob]
    #6570832 - 02/15/07 01:45 PM (17 years, 5 days ago)

Mentally I think there is a chance someone could overcome such a thing, But due to physical withdrawals it may be more than just eating mushies to rid it fully.

If someone reached for a bag of mushies every time they felt the urge to drink, as an alcoholic They would build a tolerance to them very quickly.

I could see using mushies as more of an anti-depressant than a Fix for addiction.

Also, replacing one drug for another isnt the brightest idea to me.

This is just my outlook, my personal perception.


--------------------
---------------------------------------------------
Sit up and meditate, there's no time to contemplate.
-------------------------------------------------
I have an international Hitech Psytrance project with a friend: BioChronic
I make various form of Psytrance as a solo Project Dendriform


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: Psy Baba]
    #6570858 - 02/15/07 01:55 PM (17 years, 5 days ago)

There have been a LOT of studies on this.

The best review I've seen is Mariavittoria Mangini's review. There have been well over 50 clinical trials on this and the results vary.

This is due (obviously) to very different approaches to this type of therapy. I'd say it CAN be used with very good clinical results.The question is whether there are clear improvements over alternative treatments.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineBristolRob
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: badchad]
    #6571389 - 02/15/07 04:28 PM (17 years, 5 days ago)

How did you get hold of the Mangini study. I'm already well over my quota on inter-library loans and erowid and MAPS both don't have it. I'd really like to get hold of a copy


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: BristolRob]
    #6572290 - 02/15/07 08:11 PM (17 years, 5 days ago)

When people join the Native American Church via peyote cereomny they are not allowed to ever drink any amount of alcohol whatsoever as long as they are members.

And they have had a great success rate* at healing alcoholics.

*I am not sure what this rate is, I just know it has been scientifically researched and that Native Americans have alcoholism problems, and that they have spoken highly of the NAC and peyote helping to cure those problems.

The thing is though if you are just doing this on your own who knows what will happen, it works best with a psychotherapist or a spiritual infrastructure like a church group with an experienced leader.


Edited by leery11 (02/15/07 08:13 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: leery11]
    #6573160 - 02/16/07 12:02 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

I don't even think a high dose is required. Medium dose, yes. An eigth would probably do the trick for most everyone.

Also, you would most certainly know how to handle the situation, as the psychotherapist. I've given therapy while on mushrooms, and also to those on them. Success varies, but it gets much farther much quicker than any other way I know.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineXtals
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: Kickle]
    #6573318 - 02/16/07 01:02 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

I think more research needs to be done but that there is potential.

I also think that there are far better options for treating alcoholics and the psychedelics are not ideal.


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Invisibleshroomhead0069
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: BristolRob]
    #6573337 - 02/16/07 01:08 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

cant say i have

there is plenty of published data already on giving high doses of lsd a couple of times with lots of therapy to alcoholics
plenty were successful but i dont think it was even 50%

however learys work with prisoners and the recidivism rate is pretty impressive
but you never know how things really happened
lots of data is horribly skewed in many different ways
if a person sets out to prove something
they often can find things to fit their model
and do


--------------------
where my drugs at, poach monkey




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OfflineFrankWhite
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: BristolRob]
    #23107723 - 04/11/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

Hey guys... I know this thread is really old but the reason I found it is more than miraculous. Let me give you guys some background info:

I am 26 years old and work in the legal industry. I am a functioning alcoholic and drink exorbitant amounts of Beer and Hard Liquor after work. I am talking either 12 Pints of Beer or Entire Bottles of Vodka or Rum (I tend to like clear liquors as they produce less of a hangover). I know this is hard to imagine for many and please don't judge; this is what happens of years and years of drinking more frequently.

I also live in the Netherlands where certain hallucinogenic substances are legal such as Magic Truffles (Sclerotia, formerly known as Magic Mushrooms), Peyote, Salvia and LSA.

I never really enjoyed psychedelics. I remember doing mushrooms twice in my late teens together with friends and just experimenting. However, this was really just to "check them out for recreational purposes" - never to seek spirituality or to seek mental healing.

10 years later (being now) I stumbled upon the subject of psychedelics on Youtube and how it apparently can help with mental disorders such as depression, PTST, addiction and Anxiety - which I have developed throughout the years of heavy drinking. I am a full-blown alcoholic who experiences withdrawal symptoms every night whenever I am mentally strong enough not to go to the grocery store or Liquor store to buy my daily fix of booze, and obviously not when I "give in" to my alcoholism when I do go and buy my booze. I also experience anxiety and depression on the regular. It really is a by-product of my alcohol abuse.

However, In the last two months - after reading about the effects of psychedelic mushrooms and the exact symptoms that I have - I went through 2 extreme magic mushroom trips. I have to be honest: both occasions where the most terrifying moments of my life. It was extremely hard for me to handle, and it took me a month to even think about embarking into my second mushroom trip (during which I drank every day of course). They where both emotionally draining, filled with paranoia and I was terrified as hell (I did 15 grams of Sclerotia a.k.a. magic mushrooms both times).

While the come-up and peak of both trips where probably the worst I have ever felt in my life, the come-down and (especially) the "after-glow" where the most liberated and content emotions I have ever felt since I was a teenager (before the alcohol abuse starter).

I am writing this the night after my  last shroom trip. I (of course) bought myself 12 pints of beer this evening while writing this... with the full intent of drinking all of them (as usual). I even started drinking them until I was down to my 6th pint when I suddenly - out of nowhere - lost the urge to open my 7th pint (I know to any "normal person" this might sound rediculous, but if you are an alcoholic it is incredibly hard - almost impossible - to simply quit a drinking session voluntarily... It is incredible to me since I never ever was able to say "no" to alcohol. I am always up to drinking even when completely drunk... I developed such a tolerance to alcohol that I can even "drink one more" even when I am unable to walk, function, talk or do anything when smashed beyond recognition... but for some reason right now (with the remaining 6 pints of beer right next to me) I can simply say no. I have suddenly completely lost the urge to finish the remaining 6 pints which I have purchased even though earlier today I had the full intent to drink each and every one of them.

I am currently shocked (and even a little anxious) about the fact that I don't want to get more drunk... I am currently semi-drunk and just do not feel comfortable opening the next beer. It is an indescribable feeling which I have never felt before until these last two extremely intense mushroom-trips (which I didn't even enjoy and which I had to force myself through).

I didn't even know these types of forums existed until I had this sudden urge to stop drinking about 10 minutes ago since I started writing this post... its weird.

Since I am completely convinced that these last two trips of psylocibin mushrooms have to do with this sudden desire of not feeling the "need" to continue drinking, I will definitely continue pursuing psychedelics. I am obviously kind of drunk right now since I drank 6 pints, however that is nothing to me since I normally drink 12 a night or an entire bottle of hard liquor (on nights out on the weekend I drink until I am unable to function which resulted in me passing out and sometimes not even ending up home anymore - don't even ask me, I am ashamed enough of myself as it is).

I am so happy right now that for once - ever since I can remember - I am actually unwilling to open a beer... it's almost making me cry of joy. I know it sounds ridiculous to many of you, but being an alcoholic is like having a love-hate relationship with alcohol: You know you shouldn't be drinking it, but you do it anyway... almost compulsively. And now I am missing that compulsion... even though I intended to get completely smashed tonight... I don't know... you guys must think I'm insane... but this is literally what I feel like right now.

I'm about to go asleep even tough I have a little buzz (even tough I'm usually only able to fall asleep once I'm full on "smashed"), but I think up until now, the psylocinin has cured that.

I will report back later,

Steve


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OfflineLuzaW
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: FrankWhite]
    #23107745 - 04/11/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 10 months ago)

best of luck to you


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OfflineSenor Spamdump
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: Kickle]
    #26165429 - 09/02/19 02:17 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

With the understanding that this thread is a bit old, I am intrigued by the potential efficacy of psilocybin as a treatment for alcoholism and intend to give it a try myself. I would like to model the experience on the Bogenschutz study at NYU, which calls for dosages of 25 mg/70 kg, followed by 25-40 mg/70 kg four weeks later and 25-40 mg/70 kg eight months later.

I'm going to head on out to Denver to give this a roll, and would like to try and network with any local groups or therapists experienced with this sort of endeavor. If there's anybody out there in Denver willing to help someone try & kick the bottle, please contact me directly private message.

Also, I'm a amateur at this sort of thing. How much mushrooms would it take to get 35 mg & 57 mg? I weigh 100 kg & that's the dosage they're using.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02061293


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OfflineFlying_Fox
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: Senor Spamdump]
    #26165736 - 09/02/19 05:58 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

I read somewhere recently that they’re doing studies on using Mushrooms etc to treat Addiction and Depression. I’m very much of a mindset that things like Depression don’t need Antidepressants, I’ve always tried to treat things as natural as possible.

If this could be a proper cure I’d be interested in finding out more info


--------------------
Truth is, I THOUGHT it mattered. I thought that MUSIC mattered. But does it bollocks? Not compared to how people matter!


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Offlineradius
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: Flying_Fox]
    #26166093 - 09/02/19 11:11 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

During mushroom taking I find everything except fruit, veg and weed horrible.
Its like their scents dont feel natural enough or something.

It has a very off putting effect on smoking because it feels dirty.
I also feel like I can fast for ages and suppress hunger responses.

I think the reason is the mushrooms can make you feel very conscious and connected so you dont want to drink alcohol. Instead you seek things like experiences, visuals, presence, consciousness and more.

Its like the worst ever combo - mushrooms and alcohol as well. Maybe there is something in the human body which can sense that alcohol is bad once mushrooms have been ingested. 


Edited by radius (09/02/19 11:15 PM)


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Offlineheatlessbbq
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: radius]
    #26167380 - 09/03/19 05:44 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

What about MDMA assisted therapy?
... and doesn't ketamine get rid of depression and relieves pain?


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OfflineUniverse
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: heatlessbbq]
    #26167899 - 09/03/19 10:45 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

I think that if you really want to stop drinking, a mushroom trip could definitely help. But it would not be a fun trip.

Before the trip, get prepared. Spend time thinking about all the damage you're doing. Cue up some videos on the topic. Write yourself some notes that you will read while you're tripping and meditate on each thing. Spend time in thought loops about liver failure and kidney infections. Imagine your brain shrinking. Think of old drunks who can't even speak clearly when they're sober. I know a couple of them. You don't want to end up like that. Then, think of how good it would be to have the monkey off your back.


If you really think the shit out of it and promise to yourself that you will change your ways, you stand a better chance than if you did the same thing without tripping. I've been hitting the tequila heavy the last couple decades, maybe I should take my own advice.


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Offlineheatlessbbq
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: Universe]
    #26169027 - 09/04/19 03:53 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

Psychedelic drugs are a gift.  :present:


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Offlineblood_vein
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: FrankWhite]
    #26169761 - 09/04/19 09:44 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

I don't have any personal experience with using mushrooms to curb alcoholism, however I think there is a large potential there so please keep us updated on your progress, or lack thereof. I just wanted to say that i feel for you, I am about your age and like alcohol more then I should. I wish you the very best of luck and truly hope you can get to place where your happy. You have people thinking of you, and you can do anything you put your mind to.


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: blood_vein]
    #26169818 - 09/04/19 10:48 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

John Hopkins just opened a new center today focusing on this; psilocybin treatments from anything due to PTSD, alcoholism, or brain trauma from post-lyme disease or physical trauma.


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OfflineTheOperator
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Re: Psilocybin assisted psychotherapy - alcoholism treatment [Re: Typerwritermonky]
    #26169832 - 09/04/19 10:57 PM (4 years, 5 months ago)

I think you can definitely tackle some of the underlying traumas behind addiction while on psychedelics. But, I also think you have to be careful about purposefully confronting negative thoughts and emotions while tripping; ideally, have someone with you who can be a trip sitter. Intentionally plunging yourself into a negative headspace can be difficult, albeit healing.

Just be careful.


--------------------
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus


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