mushboy said:

Read my tea thread.

If I eat the shrooms I get liquid shits every time. Tea solves this problem because you discard the boiled shroom debris. And I dose multiple times a week every week for a few years now.

Ime potency issues come from poor drying methods. How did you dry?

The whole veil breaking=weaker potency is old wives tales. I've had sporulated to death shrooms melt my face off.

---

Fun-G said:

Up the nitrogen content of your substrate. Since your using cakes this would be done by hydrating the mix with diluted coffee instead of just plain water.

I've been growing for over ten years and have tried many different cubensis varieties but the golden teachers have me hooked....my last two grows were gt's and I noticed a considerable difference between Ms genetics and potency, the first grow didn't have worm castings so the nitrogen was low and so was the potency but on the 2nd grow I added worm castings and dried them the same as the first batch using a fan.... the mushrooms will dry but still be a bit soft, this is ok. I have some in a bag for a week now and they smell like fresh mushrooms.

---

Fun-G said:

Substrates high in nitrogen are proven by RR to show a increase in the strength of psilocybin per a dried gram. Cubensis contain 0.01% of psilocybin per a dried gram but it's the substrate median they're grown in that play a huge role in the overall strength of that 0.01% that's why bulk substrates are engineered to contain nitrogen, phosphorus, magnesium, calcium (gypsum) and etc..... there all minerals that are used by mycelium. Everyone knows that mushrooms will grow off Anything cellulose but that's just the material they decompose it has nothing to do with nutritional value of the substrate....everyone says coir is nutritious
When it's not....its just cellulose it has no vitamins or minerals that also get broken down and digested by mycelium during the reproductive phase of mushroom development.....the tissue of a mushroom is cellulose bit its what's went into the conversion of that tissue during its development phases.... I believe the word used to describe it is alkloid.

Anyways, re did the write up on adding coffee to rye grain cause he found elevated nitrogen helped promote stronger mushrooms. Do a search on it and you'll find the thread, and I always found in my own grows that nitrogen rich substrates always produced very potent mushrooms. The last two current grows are not my first rodeo with cubensis and nitrogen dabbling with the substrates.

---

RR added coffee to rye berries for stone producers not cubes

Do a quick search on increasing potency and you'll see they all get told that NO you can not just magically add something to your substrate and get stronger mushrooms, it's genetics and if your using grains or BRF then nutrition isn't an issue

So in your experience its either placebo or purely genetics because MS genes vary widely so

this 'rich' substrate was dirt from outside and a dash of brf.



potency was on point.

Fun-G said:

everyone says coir is nutritious
When it's not....

---

DnDRnD said:

I'm just curious because you said

"I had prematurely birthed one of my PF jars and spawned it to a cow poop substrate Monotub weeks ago"

Are you saying you spawned 1 normal half pint PF cake into a whole mono?

But either way onto my opinion

- Potency can vary greatly from fruit to fruit especially with MS (multispore) perhaps next time try grinding up your shrooms as fine as possible and mixing them up nice and good to homogenize the powder (makes the potency relatively even throughout the whole pile of ground mushrooms)

- always use a dehydrator, it takes temps of 300+ degrees Fahrenheit to degrade the psilocin and psilocybin so normal dehydrator temps are perfectly fine and are the preferred drying method

- open caps vs closed caps doesn't affect potency really like MushBoy said ive had open capped mushrooms melt my face before

---

Yes, I spawned one 1/2 pint BRF jar into a 90 Qt. Monotub as an experiment a month or so ago. I realize now that one little 1/2 pint of spawn for the whole big ol' tub might have been a little overly-ambitious, ha. My line of thinking though was that if my sterile game was on point and I was working with clean spawn and properly pasteurized substrate, then the 1/2 pint of spawn would still colonize the whole tub eventually, just slower than usual. Does this sound like a legitimate possibility or are there issues with that idea?

It started out great but I was not able to complete this experiment as it got gang-banged by fungus gnats and possibly some cobweb mold developed too. So I quarantined it in the garage a few weeks ago. Just checked on it the other day and it actually looks like it may be fully colonized, but it's very dry inside and Still has little fungus gnat larvae crawling around inside despite my best efforts.. I wanted to open it and spray some hydrogen peroxide to battle against the gnats & hydrate the sub, but don't want to risk opening it if there's a possibility I could spread mold spores from it, if it is indeed contaminated by cobweb mold. I will probably end up loosely planting the sub outside my house somewhere if I get a good chance to sneak it out one day.

I also spawned one 1/2 pint BRF cake, fully colonized this time, to a 15 Qt. tub (think they call it a boot box?) with about 3" of Vermiculite/Coir for the substrate. This was on August 8th. It's actually been doing pretty good and it is on its 2nd Flush now! I like the 15 Qt. size a lot, I think it's a great medium between a 6 Qt. shoebox and a big ol' Monotub, and I can have 3-4" of substrate in there and there still should be room for the mushrooms to grow fully without having to remove the lid. So far I've never had to remove the lid but I'm also not growing any monster-sized fruits yet either.

Fun-G said:

Up the nitrogen content of your substrate. Since your using cakes this would be done by hydrating the mix with diluted coffee instead of just plain water.

I've been growing for over ten years and have tried many different cubensis varieties but the golden teachers have me hooked....my last two grows were gt's and I noticed a considerable difference between Ms genetics and potency, the first grow didn't have worm castings so the nitrogen was low and so was the potency but on the 2nd grow I added worm castings and dried them the same as the first batch using a fan.... the mushrooms will dry but still be a bit soft, this is ok. I have some in a bag for a week now and they smell like fresh mushrooms.

---

jcm4620 said:

or could just be genetics iv had cubes from ms come out weak as hell in 1 transfer and shit that would melt ur face off in another just gtta try and find what your looking for and clone them bad boys

---

DnDRnD said:

Coffee grounds doesn't affect potency so you know!!! I'm trying to get that through to Fun-G, BRF is plenty nutritious enough for potent fruits

Is that book by Paul Stamets? Cause hes a well known hack around these parts

For agar check out the link in my signature for no pours if you go that route, although no worries ordering petris online they're completely legal and fine to order

---

Fun-G said:

DnDRnD said:

Coffee grounds doesn't affect potency so you know!!! I'm trying to get that through to Fun-G, BRF is plenty nutritious enough for potent fruits

Is that book by Paul Stamets? Cause hes a well known hack around these parts

For agar check out the link in my signature for no pours if you go that route, although no worries ordering petris online they're completely legal and fine to order

---

Paul statements is God of mushrooms... hes the one that first identified psilocybin cubensis back in the late 50's early 60's... without his contributions shroonery.org would more then likely seize to exist along with all the information that is essentially ripped out of Tmc and modified to user names on a internet forum. Teks of teks of teks and endless amounts of users regurgitating info that is otherwise unproven... did you know that worm castings were shown by a university study to increase yield by 5% on a isolate? That's not a genetics modification of the Gene's but the substrate itself using vitamins and minerals to bolster the yield. Same reason you add gypsum. There's no hurting your substrate by using coffee to hydrate the sub or by adding grounds to coir....I'm saying from my experiences which is probably around 40 or so grows in a 10+ yr window that! Nitrogen rich substrates never fail to produce weak mushrooms.

Not the genetics of the mushroom but the vitamins and minerals that help those genetics thrive and survive. Understand my view on why I favor nitrogen now? Those developed genetics started on some food source and digested material containing different elements....

Mushrooms will grow on cigarette butts but the same isolate will grown even better on horse manure, equal weight and growing conditions because the horse manure has more fibrous minerals.

You know what might have caused ops low potency shrooms is the dehydrator but unlikely since most only heat to 80-90d but prolonged heat would cause the psilocybin to oxidize at a faster rate....not much but some.

Anyways, ops doing everything right out of the text book.it takes coming to shroomeries forum to begin the information war on what's the better substrate composition for growing really strong psilocybes and that's when the mistakes happen....kinda like the old "dunk your grains thread" before spawning.....seemed legit and I did 12l of wbs just to have my bulk sub fail to produce mushrooms on two separate occasions And thats what listening to others and hoping on board the same boat does for people....

I say add nitrogen by using coffee to help with future grows

Where as a couple others say its Ms dependent

I dont believe to many disagreed with rr cause he was using a isolate to do the testing...

But hell man! It could just come down to your metabolism and overall being when consuming p.cubensis...

For me and gt's a one time dose of 1.3g was stronger then a previous dose of 2.5g...

Few days break was given in between and it was my same grow...check out the popcorn 505040 thread.

Enjoy my story book reply?

---

So I'm just gonna break this down like this

- Paul Stamets is a fuckin hack dude, he's said before that he KNEW that some information in his book is outdated and wrong information but put it in anyways

- Paul Stamets charges a ridiculous mark up on his products

- NOBODY that is a TC uses his teks because they suck and are way outdated

- he was definitely not the first to identify cubensis, hoffman worked on psilocybin and so did gartz way before Stamets

- I'm not saying coffee hurts a substrate im saying it WONT increase potency magically just because you add coffee

- not to get into a pissing match but 40 grows in 10+ years isn't anything to brag about, ive done 40+ grows this year alone

- again I'm not saying that nitrogen is bad im saying increasing nitrogen content WON'T increase potency, in other words nitrogen content and alkaloid content are not directly connected like that

- dehydrator won't decrease potency any, they dont get hot enough, it takes 300+ degrees Fahrenheit to start degrading the alkaloids

- just because your sub didnt produce when you tried a tek doesnt mean that the tek sucks, perhaps it was your techinique or spawn? There's multiple variables

- again there isnt much contradictory Information when it comes to potency, the answer is potency can vary drastically from fruit to fruit especially when using MS, learn to look at post dates and who's posting the information so you don't end up reading a 15+ year old thread posted bg somebody not active in 5+ year's

- "For me and gt's a one time dose of 1.3g was stronger then a previous dose of 2.5g...

Few days break was given in between and it was my same grow...check out the popcorn 505040 thread."

That literally proves my point of potency varies from MUSHROOM TO MUSHROOM and you can't magically increase potency by adding coffee

- gypsum is added to help increase YIELD not potency, yield is almost totally environmentally dependent while as potency is not

Somebody call Bod to the rescue

Quirkmeister92 said:

Fun-G said:

"Nitrogen rich substrates never fail to produce weak mushrooms."

---

jcm4620 said:

was gnna add tht i forgot paul wrote the life magazine article that brought "magic mushrooms"  into the mainstream il almost bet $ he is thinking of gordon wasson either  way it dont matter cuz even he  still didnt fuckin discover them i swear ppl make me laugh that whole thing just made my day at work  a

---

Pretty sure he probably is thinking of wasson! Lmao where did I get gartz from