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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs
    #26162681 - 08/31/19 04:18 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs

Humans could burn every living thing on the planet and still not dent its oxygen supply.

Peter Brannen
Aug 27, 2019
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/amazon-fire-earth-has-plenty-oxygen/596923/


As tongues of flame lapped the planet’s largest tract of rain forest over the past few weeks, it has rightfully inspired the world’s horror. The entire Amazon could be nearing the edge of a desiccating feedback loop, one that could end in catastrophic collapse. This collapse would threaten millions of species, from every branch of the tree of life, each of them—its idiosyncratic splendor, its subjective animal perception of the world—irretrievable once it’s gone. This arson has been tacitly encouraged by a Brazilian administration that is determined to develop the rain forest, over the objections of its indigenous inhabitants and the world at large. Losing the Amazon, beyond representing a planetary historic tragedy beyond measure, would also make meeting the ambitious climate goals of the Paris Agreement all but impossible. World leaders need to marshal all their political and diplomatic might to save it.

The Amazon is a vast, ineffable, vital, living wonder. It does not, however, supply the planet with 20 percent of its oxygen.

As the biochemist Nick Lane wrote in his 2003 book Oxygen, “Even the most foolhardy destruction of world forests could hardly dint our oxygen supply, though in other respects such short-sighted idiocy is an unspeakable tragedy.”

The Amazon produces about 6 percent of the oxygen currently being made by photosynthetic organisms alive on the planet today. But surprisingly, this is not where most of our oxygen comes from. In fact, from a broader Earth-system perspective, in which the biosphere not only creates but also consumes free oxygen, the Amazon’s contribution to our planet’s unusual abundance of the stuff is more or less zero. This is not a pedantic detail. Geology provides a strange picture of how the world works that helps illuminate just how bizarre and unprecedented the ongoing human experiment on the planet really is. Contrary to almost every popular account, Earth maintains an unusual surfeit of free oxygen—an incredibly reactive gas that does not want to be in the atmosphere—largely due not to living, breathing trees, but to the existence, underground, of fossil fuels.

Shanan Peters, a geologist at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, is working to understand just how it was that our lucky planet ended up with this strange surplus of oxygen. At a presentation in June, at the North American Paleontological Convention in Riverside, California, he pulled up a somewhat unusual slide.

“What would happen if we combusted every living cell on Earth?” it asked. That is, Peters wanted to know what would happen to the atmosphere if you burned down not just the Amazon, but every forest on Earth, every blade of grass, every moss and lichen-spackled patch of rock, all the flowers and bees, all the orchids and hummingbirds, all the phytoplankton, zooplankton, whales, starfish, bacteria, giraffes, hyraxes, coatimundis, oarfish, albatrosses, mushrooms, placozoans—all of it, besides the humans.

Peters pulled up the next slide. After this unthinkable planetary immolation, the concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere dropped from 20.9 percent to 20.4 percent. CO2 rose from 400 parts per million to 900—less, even, than it does in the worst-case scenarios for fossil-fuel emissions by 2100. By burning every living thing on Earth.

“Virtually no change,” he said. “Generations of humans would live out their lives, breathing the air around them, probably struggling to find food, but not worried about their next breath.”

[article continues to discuss the science of oxygen release]

[conclusion]:
You don’t get to 20.9 percent, or an atmosphere that can host animal life, without geologic time, and without the fossil record. The tiny remainder of photosynthetic stuff that isn’t consumed and respired again by life—that 0.01 percent of plants and phytoplankton that manages to escape from this cycle of creation and destruction—is responsible for the existence of complex life on Earth. It’s the organic carbon that, once created, doesn’t get consumed again. Somehow this rounding error of plant stuff gets shuttled away after it dies, and is shielded from decomposition before it can be undone by the oxygen it produced in life. By not getting destroyed by oxygen, this conserved plant stuff gifts a tiny surplus of the unused gas to the atmosphere above. On the time scale of tens of millions of years, such meager gifts can accumulate—apparently to 20.9 percent.






It helps to keep things in perspective, and it's nice to know that the conflagration in the Amazon won't destroy all life on the planet. That being said, there is absolutely no justification for policies like Bolsonaro's, who would indeed like to tear the whole Amazon rainforest down for economic development, nevermind all the people who live there. That guy's a real piece of work, I have to say.


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Offlineaceprophet.47
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26164496 - 09/01/19 09:25 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

interesting thanks!

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OfflineShikamaru
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26164995 - 09/02/19 09:18 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I recently learned that the farm belt in north america produces 40% more oxygen than the amazon rainforest at its peak.

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26169275 - 09/04/19 06:03 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
there is absolutely no justification for policies like Bolsonaro's, who would indeed like to tear the whole Amazon rainforest down for economic development, nevermind all the people who live there. That guy's a real piece of work, I have to say.



yikes! that is very colonialist of you to say, and borderline racist, who are you to deny the poor people of the world the luxury of the developed world? serious question


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evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: killingravensun] * 1
    #26169297 - 09/04/19 06:15 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I'm gonna keep this in mind but file it away as "Most likely untrue." He's suggesting that this reactive gas that is used every time we burn something is essentially in infinite supply. This is how humans ruin everything. Nothing is infinite, except maybe the expansion of the universe


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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: killingravensun]
    #26169325 - 09/04/19 06:31 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

killingravensun said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
there is absolutely no justification for policies like Bolsonaro's, who would indeed like to tear the whole Amazon rainforest down for economic development, nevermind all the people who live there. That guy's a real piece of work, I have to say.



yikes! that is very colonialist of you to say, and borderline racist, who are you to deny the poor people of the world the luxury of the developed world? serious question





My only point is that it is wrong to displace or kill people who are living the way they choose to live, all in the name of economic "development." Do you seriously disagree? Should someone like Bolsonaro be deciding how these people should live?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26169497 - 09/04/19 07:41 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

the assertion that bolsonaro is single handedly responsible for the destruction of the rainforest is absurd, ranchers and farmers have been clearing the land for decades, and the reason they do it is because of demand for the products, many of those customers are in the developed countries that cant feed their own people so really the blame can be spread around

it seems that the deforestation of the amazon only became an issue when bolsonaro was elected, maybe because he is tied politically to trump and some people have TDS so bad it makes them terminally stupid

btw, recently there has emerged evidence of a once great civilization that occupied the land where the rainforest is now, with canals and buildings indicating a large community, so the amazon hasnt always belonged to the people of the forest, they are just the latest inhabitants, we are all just squatting on this rock until some catastrophe comes along

does it suck that they are being displaced? sure, but maybe worry more about the bullshit in afghanistan, syria and iraq first


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: killingravensun]
    #26169539 - 09/04/19 08:03 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not blaming it all on Bolsonaro. I am blaming Bolsonaro for his current actions. The Amazon has indeed been undergoing clear-cutting and ranching for over fifty years. Nothing I said precludes this from being the case.

I agree with everything else you've said, except the last part. I don't think of the displacement and slaughter of the indigenous in Brazil as any less horrifying than the displacement and slaughter of native middle-easterners in the useless and interminable wars there.


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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26169573 - 09/04/19 08:16 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

you call the people of the amazon "indigenous" but that term means nothing really, the people from the east in the cities are just as "indigenous", they were all born in the same country, let brazilians figure it out, yeah its a shitty deal but look around...

as for the middle east, now there is a real travesty, people with no right to the land coming in with weapons and bullying the natives, just so some corporate scum can get at the cell phone minerals, its the new colonialism, and westerners just nod and turn their backs


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: killingravensun]
    #26169710 - 09/04/19 09:16 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Semantics aside, I agree with you. Uncle Sam waves his baton and expects everyone to fall into lockstep. And then when they don't, Americans are ignorant enough to be shocked and outraged. A reckoning is coming, and in several respects is already here. God help this luckless planet.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Registered: 04/03/19
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26169776 - 09/04/19 10:02 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
A reckoning is coming, and in several respects is already here. God help this luckless planet.



all this BS with brazil started with macron and the g7 twats barking about climate change, meanwhile...

Quote:

Microplastics have been observed in the guts of many Lake Michigan fish, in drinking water and even in beer. Perhaps the most worrisome aspect is that the impact of microplastics on human health remains unclear. Plastics are known to attract industrial contaminants already in the water, like PCBs, while expelling their own chemical additives intended to make them durable, including flame retardants.




Quote:


Although flame retardants can offer benefits when they are added to some products, a growing body of evidence shows that many of these chemicals are associated with adverse health effects in animals and humans. These include:

Endocrine and thyroid disruption
Impacts to the immune system
Reproductive toxicity
Cancer
Adverse effects on fetal and child development
Neurologic function



objective observation points toward imminent planet wide life extinction


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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InvisibleLizardWizard
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: killingravensun]
    #26173843 - 09/07/19 08:30 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

killingravensun said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
there is absolutely no justification for policies like Bolsonaro's, who would indeed like to tear the whole Amazon rainforest down for economic development, nevermind all the people who live there. That guy's a real piece of work, I have to say.



yikes! that is very colonialist of you to say, and borderline racist, who are you to deny the poor people of the world the luxury of the developed world? serious question






Who are you to call them poor people? In my view, that way of seeing things makes you poor, and luxury of the developed world? Your whole view rieks of colonialism, aka, I'm gonna plant my flag and make this my land, give the people a taste of what's good in life, because I know what's righteous and good in life, and I'll teach them poor savages all about it, while turning the land they don't use properly into my riches. Get it? That's taking the riches from the native people for your own gain, and then shoving it down their unwilling throats.

I'm starting to get where those ratings come from.


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The best things in life
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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: LizardWizard]
    #26174076 - 09/07/19 11:26 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Yea I'm officially not considering anything he says to be worth responding to. He's an idiot and a troll


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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: LizardWizard]
    #26186571 - 09/13/19 06:25 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LizardWizard said:
Who are you to call them poor people? In my view, that way of seeing things makes you poor, and luxury of the developed world?



they dont have money or food, quite literally the definition of "poor", and yes the poors think western decadence is luxury even if you dont

Quote:

LizardWizard said:
Your whole view rieks of colonialism, aka, I'm gonna plant my flag and make this my land, give the people a taste of what's good in life, because I know what's righteous and good in life, and I'll teach them poor savages all about it, while turning the land they don't use properly into my riches.



really? thats a pretty dim summation of my posting, maybe read harder

Quote:

LizardWizard said:
Get it? That's taking the riches from the native people for your own gain, and then shoving it down their unwilling throats.



jesus, this planet is doomed, is this the best you kids can do? just push the button and get it over with

Quote:

LizardWizard said:
I'm starting to get where those ratings come from.



well, if you mean people who have no critical thinking skills and just regurgitate the nonsense their overlords teach them then you are correct


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: The Amazon Is Not Earth’s Lungs [Re: bloodsheen]
    #26186575 - 09/13/19 06:27 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
Yea I'm officially not considering anything he says to be worth responding to. He's an idiot and a troll



some of you seem to think "troll" means anybody who doesnt share your brainwashed world view


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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