Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |  [ show all ]
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: akira_akuma]
    #26195953 -

akira_akuma said:
nevertheless, there are higher conscious states and transcendent spaces [and "timeless" spaces, at that].


"timeless" spaces.  I'm assuming you're referring to black holes.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: saved7]
    #26195982 -

analogy fail, the entirety of the computer system is a known structure, programmers are part of that system, they are in no way outside of the system

nature is the universe, agreed?

the creator of the universe is the mind, hence part of the universe, both the mystic and scientist know this

if there is anything apart from the universe it cannot be known, it cannot even be speculated about

the closest you can get to the "supernatural" is to consider that a Nothing exists, a framework of reality that precedes our existence, and all matter is made of electric charge swirling around this Nothing

there is only the moment of now, which is the moment of creation, so the universe is always,created by Mind without beginning forever


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: saved7]
    #26196001 -

I believe he means perception with a bent perspective of time.

Messing with the brain can do all sorts of stuff.  The power of the brain is unknown.  People have claimed to experienced extremes.  Religious states, times of great stress, fine tuning mind function, so on.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26196003 -

elsewhere in the universe there are better processors of Mind energy than human brains


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: qman]
    #26196254 -

qman said:
saved7 said:
killingravensun said:
the term supernatural implies something outside of nature, when using the term supernatural one is simply referring to some force of nature not yet understood, that force is the Mind


A software-designer would be super-natural compared to the nature of the encoded laws of their computer program. 

Humans, though bodily bound to physial law, actually interact in the realm of the supernatural constantly.
Ideas like love, sacrifice, honor, good & evil, transgression, justice, etc. are written all over our hearts, yet cannot be accounted for in the material realm...  Like God, we know these are real things and live by them daily, but we pretend they aren't real because we can't find a material source for them.  We can't find those ideas in the code of nature.

So we believe in all the beautiful things around us, but we don't believe in the Beautiful itself.


Can you provide any evidence that human emotions and abstract concepts exist in "supernatural"?  No you can't.      https://simplicable.com/new/abstract-concept

Let's be very clear- human emotions and thoughts exist in the physical world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion

Human ideas exist in human brains, human brains exist in the physical world. There's nothing supernatural about it.


even though we can't measure those ideas - human thoughts and emotions - by physical means, can't we still detect their signals?

...lingering in a plane above us, reality descends through frequency to become dense enough to become material reality.

the highest domain being the Divine - and from here energy flows downward to the domains below, where it provides instruction/information

as akira said, each sphere occupies a different time-space domain.  there is a hierarchical organization - and vibration - the physical just being the one that people seem to know best based on their experience with five basic senses.

the lowest domain would be the strictly physical domain that occupies a positive time-space frame that is mainly electrical, the realm where entropy increases as time passes

the domain immediately above the physical is a negative time-space domain and is highly magnetic, more order is established here as potential increases and entropy decreases

this zero-point field is a sea and a crossroads of energy, where atomic motion is stopped allowing it to transmit energy with no time lapse.

it is "hidden", yet the idea of "sacrifice" becomes real, and leaves the state of a hidden potential, when the mind brings into reality the thoughts and experiences of the moment through the agency of will.

we pull down from the negative time-space domain the "lost information".

to do this our minds transcends the material and leave behind the constraints of space and time.

may be if culture reformed its ideas about what a human beings is,

we could drop the debate about the above phenomena being one of material vs. spiritual,

and ask what the phenomenon tells us about the nature of reality.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26196364 -

thealienthatategod said:
...lingering in a plane above us, reality descends through frequency to become dense enough to become material reality.

the highest domain being the Divine - and from here energy flows downward to the domains below, where it provides instruction/information


there is no disconnect between "the divine" and the human, this popular misconception causes much confusion, the divine that instructs is the voice of your conscience, if you form a good relationship it will provide answers, this relationship building is/was the purpose of all religions, long removed from most organized religions today


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: akira_akuma]
    #26196390 -

akira_akuma said:
nevertheless, there are higher conscious states and transcendent spaces [and "timeless" spaces, at that].


higher consciousness is an activity of the brain, in the body.
experiences of time and space are also electrical activity in the brain and body.
often unusual perceptions of space or time relate to the brain when it is affected by emotion or drugs.
so
?


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: killingravensun]
    #26196487 -

the distinctions of domains is only to separate the parts to allow for the examination from a limited POV.

to create a foundation of understanding, i personally need an explanation of the assemblage of units, vs being able to start a foundation by grasping the notion that "all is one".

when trying to understand the consequence of my own being, i need to see the engine that drives the underlying structure.

by grasping onto the separation of unity, i come into a threshold where my mind can then trancend it.

a direct relationship sounds wonderful, but the message is restrained by the limits of our minds.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26196578 -

thealienthatategod said:
the distinctions of domains is only to separate the parts to allow for the examination from a limited POV.


you see what you want to see, you are who you want to be

thealienthatategod said:
to create a foundation of understanding, i personally need an explanation of the assemblage of units, vs being able to start a foundation by grasping the notion that "all is one".


the "all is one" bullshit is a lazy way of dismissing "the other", the universe is infinite diversity, piece it together however you want

thealienthatategod said:
when trying to understand the consequence of my own being, i need to see the engine that drives the underlying structure.


your mind is the engine, thoughts are the only reality

thealienthatategod said:
by grasping onto the separation of unity, i come into a threshold where my mind can then trancend it.


disjointed

thealienthatategod said:
a direct relationship sounds wonderful, but the message is restrained by the limits of our minds.


the mind has no limit.


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: killingravensun]
    #26196764 -

Killingravesun essentially took everything I was going to say. Spot on.


--------------------

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: killingravensun]
    #26196870 -

thealienthatategod said:
the distinctions of domains is only to separate the parts to allow for the examination from a limited POV.


killingravensun said:
you see what you want to see, you are who you want to be


it is true, the mind has no limits, yet it appears to when an individual runs into boundaries thanks to the constraints of thought that a mind perceives.

in this sense the limits are very real for the individual that has created them.

killingravensun said:
disjointed


yes, i used the phrase "separation of unity" to articulate disjointedness.

killingravensun said:
the "all is one" bullshit is a lazy way of dismissing "the other", the universe is infinite diversity, piece it together however you want


my reply agreed with your assessment that there is no separation from the divine, but the gap of disjointedness* must be bridged, according to an individual's unique perspective.

((*to the mind which contains thoughts that perceives this separation))

i was also was attempting to elucidate the fact that for those that choose to lack the constitution to have faith,

to believe in the (seemingly) impossible means descending down many rabbit holes.

in these isolated parts, experiences and observations transform the impossible into the probable.

the perception of a new truth is born in a black hole.

my personal assessment of togetherness is expressed in first experiencing being acquainted to all disparate parts, and forming bridges so there are no separate domains or points.

then with this new perception, i can step outside of time, to defy gravity and ascend from the black hole.

in this universe, the experience of becoming is much more powerful than the experience of being.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26196982 -

the structure of your mind and consciousness is not the same structure as that of the universe
but it is a subset of the latter


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: killingravensun]
    #26197089 -

killingravensun said:
analogy fail, the entirety of the computer system is a known structure, programmers are part of that system, they are in no way outside of the system


The analogy works fine.  Sure, both the human engineer and the computer program exist in the same reality.  But the human stands far outside the law imposed on his program.

This is analogous to the distinction between the physical law of the material world, and the author of that physical law.  Just as we would never expect a human programmer to be bound by the laws of his binary computer code, we would not expect the author of physical law to be bound by that physical law.

This is a pretty straightforward point, and you haven't provided any counter-argument to it as far as I can see.  You'd just rather lump everything together and ignore the logical distinctions.

Quote:
killingravensun said:nature is the universe, agreed?

the creator of the universe is the mind, hence part of the universe, both the mystic and scientist know this

if there is anything apart from the universe it cannot be known, it cannot even be speculated about

the closest you can get to the "supernatural" is to consider that a Nothing exists, a framework of reality that precedes our existence, and all matter is made of electric charge swirling around this Nothing


I agree somewhat.  There is obviously, obviously, an intelligent mind behind the origin of the physical universe.  People who can't accept that are simply in denial, in my opinion.  They know the truth but want to pretend it isn't so.

I don't follow the rest of your argument for reasons already stated above.  There is a clear distinction between being created under the physical law and being the author above the physical law.

Quote:
killingravensun said:there is only the moment of now, which is the moment of creation, so the universe is always,created by Mind without beginning forever


People here seem to really not like the idea that the universe had a beginning.  I wonder why that is.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: saved7]
    #26197175 -

Actually curious, what makes it so obvious?
What do you see around you that just screams intelligent creator?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: saved7]
    #26197204 -

I don't think that we're born knowing anything at all. We come into the world a blank slate. Babies and adults are also full of all kinds of delusions, and are easily fooled by all sorts of subconscious biases.

The whole idea of a supernatural creator is absurd, and there is absolutely no evidence for it. It's a collective delusion left over from thousands of years ago when people had no idea how the world actually worked, so they just went with whatever fantasies they came up with. It's no different than mythology. Now that we know at least a little about how the world works, we need to abandon these fantasies and face the reality of the world we live in.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26198694 -

redgreenvines said:
the structure of your mind and consciousness is not the same structure as that of the universe
but it is a subset of the latter


so do you think the universe itself has consciousness?

and if so, what is the primary difference between its consciousness and ours?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: saved7]
    #26198846 -

I'd assert you are the "beginning", the "end", the all, the now. The Absolute. "Reality" is a function of consciousness. It doesn't require a creator. Only man's lower intellect requires causal explanations, which at their root are irrational assumptions.

Consciousness has always been. There is no need for a creator. It's already infinite and absolute. An extension of an absolute (consciousness/god) is that absolute (consciousness/god). There is your god. You are the creator. There is no "reality" outside of you.

If anything this is a subset of a dream-like projection. When you dream at night, all of the events, people, places and circumstances are happening inside of your consciousness. You are the projector and the container simultaneously. This is what your dreams are showing you, if only we paid more attention to that part. Waking reality is another superset of that, albeit it more consensual (your SELF relative to OTHER SELFS (ultimately still "YOU" from another "angle")). Mushrooms take you to another superset. DMT will take you to the top (I assume; I haven't gone that "far" yet) of what's possible from "this level".

These "drugs" are teachers and guides, that again, your consciousness itself is a prerequisite in order to experience and learn from in the first place. In order for you to grow and learn - for that to have any meaning or efficacy - you have to be the existential center; the constant; the only constant frame of reference you ever have; you're existentially anchored. Everything else "changes around you". That right there is a huge cosmic giggle if there ever was one IMHO. They (psychs) literally expand your consciousness, showing you more and more how "the source" is ultimately "one thing", and that "one thing" is ultimately "YOU". No supernatural creator required.

Edited by Loaded Shaman (09/20/19 08:25 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26198861 -

Supernatural is not transcending nature.  It's all nature and in your power to use your brain.  It is all nature.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26198921 -

qman said:
akira_akuma said:
nevertheless, there are higher conscious states and transcendent spaces [and "timeless" spaces, at that].


"timeless" spaces.  I'm assuming you're referring to black holes.


maybe. some people hypothesize some pretty radical things about black holes, and why not? they jar our very conception of reality, and how we understand it. my point is, why not? but alas, i'm not necessarily talking about black holes, though.

nooneman said:
It's no different than mythology. Now that we know at least a little about how the world works, we need to abandon these fantasies and face the reality of the world we live in.


myth is what makes the world. you think people really are how they truly are, without the various make-ups of programming within society, civilization, culture? you think without interaction we would be the same creatures, that is, without the expectations of being meet with social others? myth makes up the psyche of a man, and woman. myth makes up the social logos. myth makes up the entire psychology of mankind. rather important subject matter to apprehend.

redgreenvines said:
akira_akuma said:
nevertheless, there are higher conscious states and transcendent spaces [and "timeless" spaces, at that].


higher consciousness is an activity of the brain, in the body.
experiences of time and space are also electrical activity in the brain and body.
often unusual perceptions of space or time relate to the brain when it is affected by emotion or drugs.
so?


so what? what about this is uninteresting to you? the notion of consciousness being "simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain" just makes perception even more fascinating and less typical that it would appear to the naked eye...because if it's all perception, and nothing more, the world we see, nakedly, is not what the world is, period. if the world is what we see, as such, then the make-up of the brains wiring is less so impressive, but altogether, said make-up does allow for some impressive feats of reality.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Deep down we all know that nature had a supernatural creator [Re: akira_akuma]
    #26198934 -

Meditation pretty much teaches how we project our perception.  If you are pissy it becomes obvious how projecting brings like trouble.

Changing perception has created a lot of myth.  We never really drop imagination living, just look at it's power with children.  Yet we still cannot heal or brainwash entirely.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Deep Entheogenic Adventurer Discovers...
( 1 2 3 all )		 Swami 5,529 46 08/23/03 09:10 PM
by MindTrap
* The nature of self-serving beliefs
( 1 2 all )		 Anonymous 7,704 28 10/13/02 12:12 AM
by johnnyfive
* Death Goddesses, World Creators, and Globalists Syngenor 1,377 2 05/27/01 06:45 PM
by Syngenor
* Nature SkorpivoMusterion 390 0 11/07/04 07:25 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion
* You as Creator Revelation 1,617 12 03/04/02 06:33 PM
by Timeleech
* Did our creator forget to tell us what we are here for... Droz 688 11 06/24/04 03:46 PM
by deff
* Sadean literature and nature MokshaMan 1,461 6 09/30/01 01:25 AM
by Jellric
* Physics website poll on the supernatural
( 1 2 all )		 Swami 2,514 24 06/17/05 12:31 AM
by Sclorch

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,739 topic views. 0 members, 130 guests and 12 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 15 queries.