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Jot



Registered: 10/25/13
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Loc: East of the Cascades, Wa
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On the Bible 1
#26156249 - 08/27/19 10:19 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ugh, truth or happiness. A timeless battle:
I’d wish and pray for happiness to win, knowing life is dim in a life of sin.
But the happiness of ignorance is not a bliss in which I have interest.
If I were like you then I’d listen, I’d believe in the Bible no question.
I’d put my hope and my faith in a God with no ending.
My morals are unbending; but this faith I’ve been defending, Is cut in two by a fierce and violent rending.
I journeyed on a quest that I called questioning.
Answers I found were not quite impressing, in fact quite depressing.
That Book that I’ve been blessing,
I now question, got me stressing.
Lies make it better, like a salad with the dressing
But now I eat the pages plain, into the truth I’m pressing.
The cannon is a lie, it’s not God’s, no it’s guys.
It’s mans; a creation made with imperfect humans hands.
Shifting sands, or a firm foundation?
Our mind’s or God’s creation?
What about the book of Jasher?
Enoch, Solomon, Tobit; there’s no answers.
God’s wisdom in a book? I guess we’d better take another look.
Have I mistook, is it a mistake?
God said unbelievers burn, boiling in an eternal lake?
With no proof? Without a message.
We just believe or get the death sentence?
Where is justice, where is love?
Where is the Holy Spirit, descending like a dove?
No where to be found, No evidence of none.
You must have faith, for your soul to be saved?
That’s like trying to eat your cake, when it hasn’t been baked.
It would be just, if You would just show your face.
Look God, we’re looking; searching the depths of space.
I don’t find it funny, I think it’s pretty sad.
You won’t come around, but you say you’re my dad.
Unless YOU don’t, that’s just what “they” say you said
And they do, so now I guess I’ll nay-say, it’s been said
“God is not a book man it’s deeper than that.”
Deeper than a magician pulling mountains out his hat.
God is real, though ethereal, and mysterial
I mean mysterious, He’s the spirit inside each of us.
The immanent God, the creator within.
Naturally we hurt in this life filled with sin.
And sin it is a failure, to be who we are.
A light on a hill, shining brighter than the stars.
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26156369 - 08/28/19 12:45 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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[insert hip-hop instrumentals]
-------------------- 🐴 hpoo or die
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Didn't you just make another thread with the same post, OP?
Again, I'll ask: why presume a false dichotomy from the outset...?
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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saved7
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OP, I have a question for you. If God gave you the proof you claim to lack, would you then repent and surrender your life to him?
If you've actually studied the Bible you should understand the main theme is how people abandon God even after directly witnessing and participating in divine miracles. They loved God while good things were happening, but afterwords quickly hardened their hearts as soon as the lusts and desires of the world distracted them.
Would more evidence really change your heart?
Are you truly seeking him, or just making an excuse to continue to live life the way you want? Do you want to find God like a thief wants to find a cop?
-------------------- "Who do you say that I am?" - Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew
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Jot



Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 1,194
Loc: East of the Cascades, Wa
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Re: On the Bible [Re: saved7] 2
#26157104 - 08/28/19 12:46 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
saved7 said: OP, I have a question for you. If God gave you the proof you claim to lack, would you then repent and surrender your life to him?
If you've actually studied the Bible you should understand the main theme is how people abandon God even after directly witnessing and participating in divine miracles. They loved God while good things were happening, but afterwords quickly hardened their hearts as soon as the lusts and desires of the world distracted them.
Would more evidence really change your heart?
Are you truly seeking him, or just making an excuse to continue to live life the way you want? Do you want to find God like a thief wants to find a cop?
Look, yeah mate I’ve read and studied the whole Bible. I went to an unaccredited bible school for 9 months so I get it. I believe in the moral premises in the Bible, and I still try to live by them. I want to be more charitable, and loving, and am growing in those aspects to this day.
It’s more complex than that man, I do believe in God.. I believe that everyone will reap what they sow, so to speak, in the afterlife. Admittedly though, I don’t have a good reason to believe this other than my feelings.. I have a gut feeling about it..
I don’t believe the Bible is ultimate truth or the exact words of God. I believe there is wisdom and edification in it. But it is fallible, and there is also doctrine to control and manipulate people in a negative way.
I don’t believe God would send someone to ETERNAL punishment, for not believing in him (already a very pompous, arrogant, tyrannical, and human notion) especially when he has provided NO substantial proof.. not to mention the fact that eternal punishment for temporary failure is not justice by any means.. (A person, evil for 100 years, deserves the worst of all possible punishments for eternity... punished a million years over, times infinity? NOT JUSTICE)
The Bible is obviously written allegorically. I do believe Jesus is real, and did something major for the world. (Ever since Jesus came the world has been progressively getting better and better) I don’t know how accurate the Gospels are in teaching his true words and works. There’s not enough real information to tell. Unfortunately it’s something that I’ll have to just not know.
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26157159 - 08/28/19 01:21 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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bible school for 9 months
-------------------- 🐴 hpoo or die
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Jot



Registered: 10/25/13
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Loc: East of the Cascades, Wa
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Quote:
split_by_nine said: bible school for 9 months 
Lol don’t marginalize me.. I learned and grew a TON. Yeah from 8AM till 4PM Monday thru Friday. We also deep cleaned the church every Thursday, served at every event. We were required to attend both Sunday services. Couldn’t work a job and couldn’t date per the rules of the school because we had to be FULLY dedicated to study and living out the Word. Even if it was allowed (it wasn’t) we wouldn’t have had any spare time for it. I even wrote an 18 page scholarly paper on Hebrews 6 as my final project. My tuition was $5750. I went into the school bounding with youthful hope for walking in the will of God. I listened, learned, questioned, and became disillusioned.
Hebrews 6:4-8 “4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Look I get it I’ve read it, studied it. Then studied the cannon, and how it came to be. I did not find the answers I hoped I’d find, it’s not a simple or easy as having some book with the very exact words of God.
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26157225 - 08/28/19 02:02 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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you spent almost $6k to clean toilets and practice abstinence? seems like a pretty good racket they're running over there.
also, im not a theologist, but doesnt paying money for bible studies go against the teachings of jesus?
am i wrong to assume this is an all boys school?
-------------------- 🐴 hpoo or die
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killingravensun
destroying angel

Registered: 04/03/19
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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26157250 - 08/28/19 02:14 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jot said:I went into the school bounding with youthful hope for walking in the will of God. I listened, learned, questioned, and became disillusioned.
with all due respect, christianity is a death cult, the only words in the bible worth your time are the words of jesus, his vibration is immutable, the rest has been corrupted to make you focus on the flesh and death
-------------------- evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature
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saved7
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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26157509 - 08/28/19 04:33 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jot said: Lol don’t marginalize me.. I learned and grew a TON. Yeah from 8AM till 4PM Monday thru Friday. We also deep cleaned the church every Thursday, served at every event. We were required to attend both Sunday services. Couldn’t work a job and couldn’t date per the rules of the school because we had to be FULLY dedicated to study and living out the Word. Even if it was allowed (it wasn’t) we wouldn’t have had any spare time for it. I even wrote an 18 page scholarly paper on Hebrews 6 as my final project. My tuition was $5750. I went into the school bounding with youthful hope for walking in the will of God. I listened, learned, questioned, and became disillusioned.
Hebrews 6:4-8 “4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Look I get it I’ve read it, studied it. Then studied the cannon, and how it came to be. I did not find the answers I hoped I’d find, it’s not a simple or easy as having some book with the very exact words of God.
To me I immediately notice that Jesus is conspicuously absent from your testimony. You seem highly focused on academic Bible study and good works... which is great, yet nothing but dirty rags without Jesus. Have you truly called out to him? Like, really fully given up on yourself and surrendered to Him as your lord and savior? It's nothing that can be intellectualized.. it's a transformation of the heart... it's a full surrender to God... I repent of my sinfulness... Take my heart Jesus, take my Life, I bow down to you.
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Matthew ch.13
In this parable spoken by Jesus (which I'm sure you're familiar), the "good ground" is one's heart. If the truth of Christ does not take root in your heart, then you may be interested in scripture for awhile but eventually become offended by it and turn back to following the ways of the world.... The truth is we are basically powerless against the deceitfulness of the enemy unless we are walking in the light of Christ. You'll just be a walking target for the next fiery dart of lust or pride or fear thrown your way.
If you're not sure where you stand, then just ask Jesus now. He's right there beside you. Repent and accept him into your heart. Believe that his blood shed on the cross has saved you. Let the seed take root.
-------------------- "Who do you say that I am?" - Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew
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Jot



Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 1,194
Loc: East of the Cascades, Wa
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: On the Bible [Re: saved7]
#26158003 - 08/28/19 08:03 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
split_by_nine said: you spent almost $6k to clean toilets and practice abstinence? seems like a pretty good racket they're running over there.
also, im not a theologist, but doesnt paying money for bible studies go against the teachings of jesus?
am i wrong to assume this is an all boys school?
Yeah you’re wrong, there’s a lot more than that. And it is coed. Anyway this will be my last response to rude and unproductive conversation coming from you. Cheers mate wish you the best.
@saved7 I haven’t told my testimony to you... I have accepted Jesus as Lord and savior, I know the parable of the sower. The fact of the matter is I have questions that can’t be answered by the Bible. The Bible was written by men, and I don’t believe it’s perfect, a document can’t authenticate itself.. I’ve lost interest in trying to discuss this with anyone.. No one understands or tries to understand, they just rather try to be right. Thanks for your time anyway;
Peace.
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26158046 - 08/28/19 08:32 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Have you tried reading the Bible in Hebrew / Greek/ Aramaic? Maybe reading about the base words or main idea in a verse gives a better context to the questions you seek. It does for me what the NIV or the often poetic KJV cannot.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Jot



Registered: 10/25/13
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Loc: East of the Cascades, Wa
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Have you tried reading the Bible in Hebrew / Greek/ Aramaic? Maybe reading about the base words or main idea in a verse gives a better context to the questions you seek. It does for me what the NIV or the often poetic KJV cannot.
Thanks for the legitimate response man. I’ve used an inter linear bible which shows both languages side by side and allows for a deeper study of the words. I can’t myself read Greek or Hebrew though.
My biggest problem with the Bible stems from people using it to justify not being good people (being selfish, unloving, unkind, etc) because they believe in God and are therefore automatically good... but yet Good people apparently go to hell permanently because they don’t believe in God or Jesus when there is no tangible evidence. Thus my hypothesis is that the Bible was written by man, and is used to make a business out of spirituality. It’s also used to justify all kinds of atrocities which would break Jesus’ heart.
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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saved7
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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26159032 - 08/29/19 12:42 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jot said: @saved7 I haven’t told my testimony to you... I have accepted Jesus as Lord and savior, I know the parable of the sower. The fact of the matter is I have questions that can’t be answered by the Bible. The Bible was written by men, and I don’t believe it’s perfect, a document can’t authenticate itself.. I’ve lost interest in trying to discuss this with anyone.. No one understands or tries to understand, they just rather try to be right. Thanks for your time anyway;
Peace.
Do you believe the accounts of Jesus in the bible? Jesus clearly did not believe the Bible was any kind of man-made fiction. Jesus upheld scripture repeatedly. Invoking the Old Testament ("It is written...") was even his primary defense against Satan.
On your claim that the Bible can't authenticate itself... I would say the opposite is true. For a book written by dozens of authors over thousands of years, yet resulting in one amazingly cohesive narrative... is amazing evidence that the words are indeed inspired by something above and beyond the individual men who put pen to paper.
When I say cohesive, I mean how each story in the old testament is an image of Jesus Christ, for example how the ancient Israelites painted lamb's blood on their doorway, so that they'd be protected from destruction. (The Passover) .. This is an image of Jesus' blood protecting us from destruction as well. And there are so many more examples of this of course... not to mention the fulfilled prophecies of Jesus.
When I look at the Bible I see a fractal pattern.. one overarching narrative, and when you zoom in somewhere, anywhere, you see the same story being told. Again, the fact that this amazing document comes to us out of the mists of ancient history via authors separated over thousands of years is powerful evidence in itself of divine inspiration.
"What is the Bible?"
https://www.youtube.com/user/jointhebibleproject
Quote:
Jot said: My biggest problem with the Bible stems from people using it to justify not being good people (being selfish, unloving, unkind, etc) because they believe in God and are therefore automatically good... but yet Good people apparently go to hell permanently because they don’t believe in God or Jesus when there is no tangible evidence. Thus my hypothesis is that the Bible was written by man, and is used to make a business out of spirituality. It’s also used to justify all kinds of atrocities which would break Jesus’ heart.
It's ironic that you'd want to throw the Bible in trash for other people mis-using it.
Furthermore... one of the main themes of the Bible is the very religious corruption you highlight here. The Bible tells us that the very religious priesthood that God had created was woefully corrupt... (when Jesus showed up he had to chase merchants out of the temple with a whip, because the "church" of that time had basically become a den of money-worship) ... and the most outwardly pious Jewish priests were described as "whitewashed tombs containing dead men's bones" ... Beautiful on the outside, ugly and dead on the inside....
The Bible actually prepares us to be skeptical of any religious authority who might attempt to pervert the word for their own gain. Does it still happen all the time? Yep. Welcome to the world. Jesus says that during the final judgment, many who claimed to be devout Christian leaders will be cast into hell. He's basically warning us to prepare for corruption in the church.
On your last point... Do you really believe the God who gave us the very quality of Justice, is going to act unjustly?
This is a youtube channel with a teacher I've found very informative on sometimes confusing Biblical subjects. I'd encourage seeking out more instruction on the Bible before throwing it in the trashcan over being offended by something.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVK6dN-9kLDnQhYBFuES09A
-------------------- "Who do you say that I am?" - Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew
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Jot



Registered: 10/25/13
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Re: On the Bible [Re: saved7] 1
#26159064 - 08/29/19 01:05 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you for a legitimate response saved7.
I don’t necessarily believe that the gospels are literally true, but I know they contain much truth.
I’m just going through some stuff internally. I still believe in Jesus as Lord of my life. I doubt only certain dogmas of the the faith, that it seems simply can not be true. I don’t desire to change you mind at all, especially if you are growing in loving God and loving people.
I think the main part I get from the Bible which holds true no matter what way you look at it is this; love God, love people.
If we can do this, we are doing his will on Earth as it is in Heaven.
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑



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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26159142 - 08/29/19 01:51 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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For what it's worth, I've found happiness in the truth  The dark corners of philosophy can surely be disconcerting, but I've found there's always a silver lining.
You will be ostrasized for seeking the truth, because nobody wants to be wrong. Most take a difference of opinion as an offense.
But you can't give up what's true, for what's comfortable.
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
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saved7
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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26159381 - 08/29/19 05:05 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jot said: Thank you for a legitimate response saved7.
I don’t necessarily believe that the gospels are literally true, but I know they contain much truth.
I’m just going through some stuff internally. I still believe in Jesus as Lord of my life. I doubt only certain dogmas of the the faith, that it seems simply can not be true. I don’t desire to change you mind at all, especially if you are growing in loving God and loving people.
I think the main part I get from the Bible which holds true no matter what way you look at it is this; love God, love people.
If we can do this, we are doing his will on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Less than a decade ago I would have laughed if someone told me the Bible was the word of God. After I accepted Jesus Christ, scripture has continued to come alive and pull me deeper and deeper into its heavenly mystery. (Now I laugh when someone claims it isn't God's word.)
I have stumbled many times in my walk, but usually when there is something in the Bible I don't understand, or seems off, or I disagree with... if I just trust that God knows more than I do.. and if something doesn't make sense, it's because I lack wisdom, not God... then he opens my eyes more and more.. things click.. I find connections that were once hidden...
It's really an amazing process... to submit to God's knowledge of all things, and simply let him give you that wisdom in grace according to his will, nothing of my own. Less of me, and more of God in all things.
That is the great commandment, to love God and each other. But be very careful of the path you're treading. By abandoning the Bible, you're basically stripping off all your spiritual armor and letting the enemy have free reign over you. The temptations to doubt everything will come flying your way.
I'm going to pray for you right now, that God soften your heart that you be not offended when you don't understand his truth. I pray you choose to lean on God for understanding, instead of relying on yourself.
You should also pray to God. If you're confused about something, ask him to show you, in Jesus name.
Corinthians ch.1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
-------------------- "Who do you say that I am?" - Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew
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Rorge
Scoundrel


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Re: On the Bible [Re: Jot]
#26160915 - 08/30/19 02:09 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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You’re right.
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