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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: christopera]
    #26159724 - 08/29/19 08:15 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Not trying to prove anything. Not a single one of my doctors take Medicare. A lot a doctors don't. The way cheap insurance works is that they chisel doctors,  which means less will be interested. That's fine when Medicare is small. That is a real problem when it expands to everyone.

Universal health care should start with realistic funding instead of a Medicare pipe dream


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil]
    #26159730 - 08/29/19 08:19 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Take medicare, starve, move to some other country with higher pricing models, learn a new trade. 

Those appear to be the options in such a scenario.  Which is likely to be the popular choice?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26159735 - 08/29/19 08:20 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Why do those have to be the only options?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil]
    #26159739 - 08/29/19 08:21 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

They clearly dont but they seemed plausible off the top of my head as the family fued list


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26159746 - 08/29/19 08:23 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Why not fully fund a comprehensive healthcare system? It's within reach.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil]
    #26159752 - 08/29/19 08:26 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

What do you mean by "fully fund", exactly?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26159753 - 08/29/19 08:27 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Fund it in a way that doesn't require the shitty compromise that is Medicare.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil]
    #26159757 - 08/29/19 08:30 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Not trying to prove anything. Not a single one of my doctors take Medicare. A lot a doctors don't. The way cheap insurance works is that they chisel doctors,  which means less will be interested. That's fine when Medicare is small. That is a real problem when it expands to everyone.

Universal health care should start with realistic funding instead of a Medicare pipe dream




If you want to argue that proposed universal health care methods will face major infrastructure issues as a result of the current model then we can agree.

I do disagree on your expansion comments, there will be hurdles to overcome, but ultimately the system will be even more efficient than medicare currently is. Especially so if we can shed the capitalist model and start dictating pricing.

I'll add, I listened to this interview with the CEO (it may have been a non profit, so his title could have been different) of a major hospital, but he was really hesitant to embrace the universal health care method because he believes that innovative health care relies on profit motive. I don't disagree, the issue I have is that the profit motive is so skewed that it's currently unrealistic. Instead of investing in innovation, they invest in safe bets, bets that are the most profitable. In a system of state control, there would be a fixed reward, not dependent on marketing. This would mean innovation would be much less risky, there's a fixed reward.

All of that aside, universal health care would be a boon for American business. I can't believe the capitalists in this country can't see that. Health care is one industry and it would take a huge hit, every other industry would benefit.


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Edited by christopera (08/29/19 08:32 PM)

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26159761 - 08/29/19 08:31 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Fund it in a way that doesn't require the shitty compromise that is Medicare.




It's so shitty that (most) people are more satisfied with medicare than privately insured people are with their health care.

Come on man.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: christopera] * 2
    #26159770 - 08/29/19 08:35 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
universal health care would be a boon for American business. I can't believe the capitalists in this country can't see that. Health care is one industry and it would take a huge hit, every other industry would benefit.



Do you mean health insurance would take a big hit?  Health care should be fine.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: christopera]
    #26159774 - 08/29/19 08:36 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

62 percent satisfaction is shitty by any metric.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26159777 - 08/29/19 08:38 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

The argument is more why should the rich drop PPOs for the poor. Also it's always pointed to socialist dictatorships saying were going to be next which is just horseshit


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26159779 - 08/29/19 08:38 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
universal health care would be a boon for American business. I can't believe the capitalists in this country can't see that. Health care is one industry and it would take a huge hit, every other industry would benefit.



Do you mean health insurance would take a big hit?  Health care should be fine.




Yes. Sorry, it’s late here and I’ve had a drink or two.


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Edited by christopera (08/29/19 08:41 PM)

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil]
    #26159782 - 08/29/19 08:40 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

M4A is comprehensive.  Its mostly just leveraging the name recognition of medicare


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #26159784 - 08/29/19 08:40 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
62 percent satisfaction is shitty by any metric.




11% better than private insurance.

Not sure what you want?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: christopera]
    #26159786 - 08/29/19 08:41 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Something better than a D average would be a start.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26159791 - 08/29/19 08:44 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Medicare For All isn’t really the same as Medicare for all


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil]
    #26159796 - 08/29/19 08:45 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I guess if you want to move the goal posts, then sure.

Only health care with 115% (an inherently meaningless number) satisfaction will satisfy Enlil. Let that be known.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26159801 - 08/29/19 08:49 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Medicare For All isn’t really the same as Medicare for all



How do we know what it is?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Enlil]
    #26159805 - 08/29/19 08:51 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Medicare For All isn’t really the same as Medicare for all



How do we know what it is?




You can read the Senate or House bill. It’s closer to Medicaid than Medicare, but also expands beyond what Medicaid currently offers, obviously.


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