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JohnRainy
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: JohnRainy]
#26157915 - 08/28/19 07:16 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I had a brief conversation with an American about this once. Their beef was that if health insurance is funded by taxes, then what you get is people who take care of their health have to chip in for people who don't.
I guess that might be true in some circumstances.
Doesn't bother me none, society is just better when health insurance is automatically part of the system. The universal public plan is cheaper anyways, like you said, and people who smoke and drink too much pay high taxes on their legal purchases of such things.
A 750ml bottle of hard stuff goes for about $25-$30. A pack of smokes in BC is over 12 dollars and there are only 20 in a pack.
That tops up the healthcare funding some.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: JohnRainy]
#26157936 - 08/28/19 07:27 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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That might be valid if the US didn’t already pay tremendously more for our weak ass private system than other countries do for universal public ones.
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koods
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: XUL] 1
#26157947 - 08/28/19 07:32 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said: I am against mandatory healthcare taxes.
I have better things to pay for and my death isn't worth wasting that money. Let one of the thirteen kids or family take the estate. It will be better infrastructure without the damn taxes.
Do it on a state to state basis so people can flee. Don't make it national.
Leave us the option to flee elsewhere. At least that.
Until you get sick and then you will demand the best treatments and do anything to get better. You only say this from the perspective of someone who isn’t sick.
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koods
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: JohnRainy]
#26157958 - 08/28/19 07:35 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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There’s nothing more expensive than people who take care of their health. They live longer and old people are very resource intensive.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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qman
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: JohnRainy] 1
#26157972 - 08/28/19 07:47 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
JohnRainy said: Canada went through the same shit.
Medicare was adopted in 1968. At the time the campaign against it went something like this.
All the doctors will leave.
It will be rationed, so that sometimes a bureaucrat on a death panel will pull the plug on your elderly Dad. I didn't say that quite right. It was a GOVERNMENT death panel that would decide if your elderly dad would survive another hour.
GOVERNMENT is key here. You have to say it with the right tone of voice. If the word doesn't scare you with its tone, you don't understand.
The population will hopelessly overcrowd the hospitals and sick people won't be able to get care because everyone will run to the doctor every time they stub their toe, sneeze, or get a scratch.
Canada will go bankrupt.
Canada will turn into USSR.
Babies born under a medicare plan will belong to the state.
People will stop taking care of themselves because if they get sick, they don't have to pay out of pocket for care. There will be no incentive to be healthy.
You don't think private insurance dictates what type of treatment a person receives? I know people that treat cancer patients and the first thing they do is look at the type of insurance the patient has and that's the type of treatment they will receive. Sometimes it's under-treatment and sometimes it's actually over-treatment. What a great system.
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koods
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: qman]
#26157977 - 08/28/19 07:52 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Private insurance is so limiting. You have to chose a doctor from a list. Available treatments come from a list. The medicines you can take are on a list. How much treatment you can receive is on a list.
Getting your insurance through your employer is a huge burden on the labor force. It limits economic freedom more than almost anything. Someone saying “i’d Like to change jobs but I can’t give up my insurance” is an absurd thing, but it doesn’t even phase an American hearing it.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (08/28/19 07:56 PM)
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: qman]
#26157987 - 08/28/19 07:55 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Our hospitals are filled with people all the time all day and night. Minimum 4 hour wait and the more serious the longer the wait seriously unless your literally dying then the will see you straight away. The week day GP office is a month booking in advance and is packed with the elderly and the jobless chavs faking limps to get their benefits. NHS tries hard but with so many people all trying to get seen to for very minor things like colds its failing.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: koods]
#26157996 - 08/28/19 08:01 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its fundamentally flawed and would argue that it is ethically wrong in regards to pricing. Very deceptive on what hospitals charge. The higher the price, the higher insurance premiums one has (the insurance company is not complaining)Same injury can be billed 3 to 4 times more, if in a car accident, then say, a trip and fall.The aspirin that is sold for x20 times its worth, that shit has got to end.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (08/28/19 08:02 PM)
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koods
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: mrmazdarx9] 1
#26158001 - 08/28/19 08:02 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mrmazdarx9 said: Our hospitals are filled with people all the time all day and night. Minimum 4 hour wait and the more serious the longer the wait seriously unless your literally dying then the will see you straight away. The week day GP office is a month booking in advance and is packed with the elderly and the jobless chavs faking limps to get their benefits. NHS tries hard but with so many people all trying to get seen to for very minor things like colds its failing.
The British system is different than Canada because the entire system is government run. Canada is essentially like the US in terms of healthcare delivery, the difference is your insurance is run by the government and not by private insurance companies.
Hospitals in the US are a nightmare as well.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: qman] 1
#26158005 - 08/28/19 08:04 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
JohnRainy said: Canada went through the same shit.
Medicare was adopted in 1968. At the time the campaign against it went something like this.
All the doctors will leave.
It will be rationed, so that sometimes a bureaucrat on a death panel will pull the plug on your elderly Dad. I didn't say that quite right. It was a GOVERNMENT death panel that would decide if your elderly dad would survive another hour.
GOVERNMENT is key here. You have to say it with the right tone of voice. If the word doesn't scare you with its tone, you don't understand.
The population will hopelessly overcrowd the hospitals and sick people won't be able to get care because everyone will run to the doctor every time they stub their toe, sneeze, or get a scratch.
Canada will go bankrupt.
Canada will turn into USSR.
Babies born under a medicare plan will belong to the state.
People will stop taking care of themselves because if they get sick, they don't have to pay out of pocket for care. There will be no incentive to be healthy.
You don't think private insurance dictates what type of treatment a person receives? I know people that treat cancer patients and the first thing they do is look at the type of insurance the patient has and that's the type of treatment they will receive. Sometimes it's under-treatment and sometimes it's actually over-treatment. What a great system.
You should apply this logic to other sectors of the economy.
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koods
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#26158012 - 08/28/19 08:08 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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We can’t have universal health care in the US because a guy once had to wait 6 weeks for a knee replacement in Canada.
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JohnRainy
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: qman]
#26158025 - 08/28/19 08:20 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
You don't think private insurance dictates what type of treatment a person receives? I know people that treat cancer patients and the first thing they do is look at the type of insurance the patient has and that's the type of treatment they will receive. Sometimes it's under-treatment and sometimes it's actually over-treatment. What a great system.
Yeah man I think all that.
Maybe it wasn't clear, but I was not promoting the private health insurance narrative.
Maybe Im misunderstanding, but I think you got me backwards. I'm sure you will find me far too left wing for your taste.
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christopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: JohnRainy] 1
#26158072 - 08/28/19 08:47 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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When I lived in Canada I got great care.
Also, a month wait for see a GP? Booo fucking hooo. I literally don’t have one because they are booked so far in advance it’s not practical to even try and go. My wife has one, when her meds were screwed up she called them daily for two weeks and couldn't even get an appointment. 95% of the time they didn't even call her back. When things got too bad, she was admitted to the emergency room. They actually comped us for all the treatment. Why did they comp us? Well, because we had an easy malpractice case on our hands. There's nothing quite like threatening to sue your health insurer to get decent care. What an awesome system we have.
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koods
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: christopera]
#26158083 - 08/28/19 08:57 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah my experience living in Canada was the same.
Canada has a lot more clinics where you can get quick treatment without going to an ER. And again, in Canada you don’t have to worry where and who will accept your insurance.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (08/28/19 09:00 PM)
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Kryptos
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: XUL] 2
#26158093 - 08/28/19 09:06 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
XUL said: I would rather use the money on infrastructure and livestock. I would hand my estate to a relative and they would have more infastructure.
My death is irrelevant. They get it all anyway.
That's not how it goes. You may choose that, sure, but that's not what's gonna happen if you're sick or injured. You'll just wake up in the ER with a hospital billing technician holding a debt payment plan.
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koods
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Kryptos] 2
#26158103 - 08/28/19 09:12 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Exactly. Like he’s gonna turn down care when his leg is bent sideways after a car accident or when his goat bites his hand and he gets necrotizing fasciitis. No he’ll just get the bill and go bankrupt because he can’t pay it.
But xul lives on a farm, a place Kniwn for its safety and lack of serious accidents. It’s not like he lives in America where you can get shot randomly in public places.
Edited by koods (08/28/19 09:17 PM)
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starfire_xes
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: ballsalsa]
#26158187 - 08/28/19 10:56 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Sure, but what about XUL, today, as a young healthy man? Will he save money? Only if he has insurance.
NOT TRUE
THE GOVERMENT ALREADY HAS programs to get you cheap health care. I go to a goverment run center. Dental too.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: starfire_xes]
#26158200 - 08/28/19 11:09 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: I go to a goverment run center. Dental too.
And you're ok with that? (Otherwise, why do it?)
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Kryptos
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26158219 - 08/28/19 11:30 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Welfare for me, not for thee.
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Kryptos]
#26158326 - 08/29/19 01:37 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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No matter how it works out, it'll be suboptimal and overpriced.
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