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OfflinePatlal
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What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US
    #26157422 - 08/28/19 03:35 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

What are the talking points of those who are against it?


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #26157449 - 08/28/19 03:46 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

They think it is a version of "socialism" or even "communism," both of which are very bad words in this country. For the majority, all thought stops when they are uttered. There is also a very strong ethos of "every-man-for-himself" in this country, and many tens of millions of people are very uncomfortable with the notion of their tax dollars helping people they do not know.

Some people may feel legitimately that our country cannot afford it. That has been debunked in this forum many times, but major change is often deeply feared.

There are also all of the lobbies in Washington reinforcing the status quo.

We need to do it, but an awful lot of people are against it. For the reasons I've described, and others.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26157452 - 08/28/19 03:50 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Health care lobbys are it.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Patlal]
    #26157654 - 08/28/19 05:32 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I am against mandatory healthcare taxes.

I have better things to pay for and my death isn't worth wasting that money. Let one of the thirteen kids or family take the estate. It will be better infrastructure without the damn taxes.

Do it on a state to state basis so people can flee. Don't make it national.

Leave us the option to flee elsewhere. At least that.


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TRUMP 2020

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OfflinePatlal
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: XUL] * 1
    #26157658 - 08/28/19 05:34 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
I am against mandatory healthcare taxes.

I have better things to pay for and my death isn't worth wasting that money. Let one of the thirteen kids or family take the estate. It will be better infrastructure without the damn taxes.

Do it on a state to state basis so people can flee. Don't make it national.

Leave us the option to flee elsewhere. At least that.




You do realize that the country will save a tremendous amount of money right?


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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Patlal]
    #26157666 - 08/28/19 05:36 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

lol, the US government cant get much right, healthcare will just get even worse than it already is, if thats possible


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evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Patlal]
    #26157674 - 08/28/19 05:37 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Sure, but what about XUL, today, as a young healthy man?  Will he save money?  Only if he has insurance.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #26157675 - 08/28/19 05:38 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

He doesn’t care if it makes sense. He doesn’t care that it would benefit himself and his fellow citizens. He doesn’t care if it would actually be cheaper because everybody uses health care whether they like it or not.

American “conservative” values at work.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

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Offlinechristopera
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: killingravensun] * 2
    #26157679 - 08/28/19 05:39 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

killingravensun said:
lol, the US government cant get much right, healthcare will just get even worse than it already is, if thats possible




Medicare say otherwise. It’s already significantly cheaper and more effective than private insurance. The big gubberment scary stories are pretty weak.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: christopera]
    #26157681 - 08/28/19 05:40 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

i personally havent been to a doctor in over 30 years, simple clean living is the best medicine


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evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: killingravensun]
    #26157691 - 08/28/19 05:42 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

every govt program is a boondoggle and healthcare wont be any different, not that insurance cos are perfect but at least there is a choice, maybe if it was modelled after cuba?


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evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: XUL]
    #26157719 - 08/28/19 05:50 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
I have better things to pay for and my death isn't worth wasting that money. Let one of the thirteen kids or family take the estate.



I'm trying to understand what you're saying here.  Are you saying you'd rather die than let Government healthcare take care of you???


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: killingravensun] * 1
    #26157731 - 08/28/19 05:52 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

killingravensun said:
i personally havent been to a doctor in over 30 years, simple clean living is the best medicine



That's exactly what we want!  A system that encourages people to stay healthy in order to keep costs down, not a system that profits more when more people get sick.  Medicare For All!!!


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26157742 - 08/28/19 05:56 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, i hate doctors, shit govt healthcare would seal the deal, i would go see a witch doctor first


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evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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OfflineXUL
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26157753 - 08/28/19 05:59 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

I would rather use the money on infrastructure and livestock. I would hand my estate to a relative and they would have more infastructure.

My death is irrelevant. They get it all anyway.


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Offlineqman
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: killingravensun] * 2
    #26157780 - 08/28/19 06:12 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

killingravensun said:
every govt program is a boondoggle and healthcare wont be any different, not that insurance cos are perfect but at least there is a choice, maybe if it was modelled after cuba?




Insurance companies were supposed to manage health care costs and that was the magical solution to private insurance.

The problem is that if health care costs don't rise, the insurance companies can't increase their profits. Private insurance has no incentive to lower costs, they need HIGHER costs.

This is why even basic health care procedures go HIGHER every year instead of lower.

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: qman]
    #26157798 - 08/28/19 06:20 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

capitalism is based on endless growth and ins cos are the best capitalists, they will never allow govt healthcare


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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Offlineqman
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: killingravensun] * 1
    #26157839 - 08/28/19 06:36 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

killingravensun said:
capitalism is based on endless growth and ins cos are the best capitalists, they will never allow govt healthcare




If insurance companies have their way, yes they will continue to screw over the average US citizen with higher costs and lower quality of care.

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Offlinekillingravensun
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: qman]
    #26157857 - 08/28/19 06:41 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

lets see, the health ins cos have 835 lobbyists and spent $78+ million this year on lobbying, good luck with universal healthcare


--------------------
evil always wins, good can only do good, evil will lie and cheat until it fools good into doing evil

freedom is the ability to take wrong action, right actions are constrained by nature

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OfflineJohnRainy
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Re: What's the argument against universal healthcare in the US [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #26157860 - 08/28/19 06:44 PM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Canada went through the same shit.

Medicare was adopted in 1968.  At the time the campaign against it went something like this.

All the doctors will leave.

It will be rationed, so that sometimes a  bureaucrat on a death panel will pull the plug on your elderly Dad.  I didn't say that quite right.  It was a GOVERNMENT death panel that would decide if your elderly dad would survive another hour. 

GOVERNMENT is key here.  You have to say it with the right tone of voice.  If the word doesn't scare you with its tone, you don't understand.

The population will hopelessly overcrowd the hospitals and sick people won't be able to get care because everyone will run to the doctor every time they stub their toe, sneeze, or get a scratch.

Canada will go bankrupt.

Canada will turn into USSR.

Babies born under a medicare plan will belong to the state.

People will stop taking care of themselves because if they get sick, they don't have to pay out of pocket for care.  There will be no incentive to be healthy.

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