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InvisibleCamera93S
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which line of thought is my ego?
    #26143963 - 08/20/19 07:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Okay, while tripping last night walking my dog I was mauling revelations over in my head.

But I had to keep correcting myself, that these were all "personal" and my insights really only applied to me. I felt like I had no authority to think/speak for humanity or the species as a whole and so to keep myself "grounded" I kept coming back to this idea that it only applies to me and my experience here on earth ( things like the metaphors for life, and relationships and how things interact )

This reminding myself was a way to avoid getting into some "woke" or holier then thou head-space, a means to try and humble myself.

But was this in fact my ego at work? Presenting itself as a false humility, when really what I was doing was making my experiences somehow unique to me. (I'm special) As though there is the whole rest of you, but here I am, different, unique in existence and interaction with the world around me in ways that you somehow are not.

I think it may stem from a social insecurity of fearing not being a "part of" and so rather then allow rejection to be a possible outcome, I bypass the integration and just set myself aside from the onset

but whatever it is, which one is my ego directing my line of thinking?

*This is all just kinda guessed at, I have to background in psychology, I don't feel like I consciously analyze things like this. Just trying to dig into this thought post trip and see maybe what sorta subconscious things Camera93 is driven by


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Camera93] * 1
    #26143979 - 08/20/19 08:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Eh, you'll drive yourself batty thinking that way. As much as the hippies on here might disagree, we are our ego, hence why ego death trips are so physically disabling. The machine doesnt work without a pilot.

But the concept of humility, what is humility, is very complicated IMO. I think the most important aspect is how you approach and treat other people. We all have our own moral and intellectual compass. To try to give that up, or doubt it's validity, will either make you a weirdo or amoral. Questioning it is perfectly natural and good, but some aspects you have to just accept, this is what I believe.

In a way you are special, you are unique, just like everyone else, which ironically makes you not special. Similarly to the humility thing, you have to try to balance "my life experiences have made me who I am" and "plenty of people have experienced x, y, and z."

It's certainly a fascinating subject to think about


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Camera93]
    #26144001 - 08/20/19 08:39 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Camera93 said:
but whatever it is, which one is my ego directing my line of thinking?




Nah, your ego is inseparable from all of that (your conscious verbal thought process).  Mushrooms shut down your executive function in your brain for a while which is one reason why they're so much fun.  You get to take a vacation from all the chatter, from having to identify "as" human "having" a life, and so on.  Sort of a mental shower, you come back from it feeling cleaner.  Showers don't make you better than anybody else.


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InvisibleCamera93S
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26144006 - 08/20/19 08:44 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

So you guys don't think it was some subconscious self obsessed POV then?

Makes me feel better, been convincing myself lately that I have some deep narcissistic tendency, and didn't know if this trip shed any further light on that based on how I was trying to make sense of things.


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A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26144008 - 08/20/19 08:46 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

All thought is ego but there can be thought that is recruited outside of the default mode network.  That's when people see visions and hear sounds like voices.

That's why especially in today's age it's harder to accept that people have visions of God.  Because it appears that it's all brain function.  There certainly are aspects of brain function outside the normal neural self.

While it can appear interesting on Euphoric drugs.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26144021 - 08/20/19 08:59 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I think the basis of enlightenment is that the self is a hallucination.  Yet very difficult and stubborn to change that aspect of our brain.  Even modem psychology isn't quite there yet.  That our desires, fears, dream content, is all hallucination and not necessarily 'reality'.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Camera93] * 1
    #26144157 - 08/20/19 10:35 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

which one is my ego directing my line of thinking?




Well, in terms of a psychedelic trip, the 'ego' would be the 'self' that is directing these lines of thought in the first place, so all of these thoughts are coming from the ego. It's the thinking thing that thinks the thoughts in your head that you can verbalize to yourself - in day-to-day terms it's you, basically, your train of thought, the thing that sees out of your eyes from your point of view, your sense of self.

If you decide to give away your possessions and live as a hermit in a cave for religious reasons, that would still be your ego making that decision and putting it into practice. There is a difference between the 'ego' in this sense and the idea of being egotistical or selfish - you don't need to stop having a self to behave less selfishly!

If you approach 'ego death' in a trip, the whole idea of life, relationships, humanity becomes irrelevant. Your sense of self is disrupted, the trip is becoming so powerful that 'you' are ceasing to exist within your own mind. The oddity of 'ego death' experiences is a dawning awareness of a new type of consciousness that you were not previously aware of. Instead of experiencing your consciousness as a thinking being inside a world, you just experience everything as a totality, as if your mind has been connected to a conscious universe.

It's a weird concept, I suppose it's not far off how you would imagine heaven or nirvana to be, so it's a very powerful experience, whatever you think of it. Unless you are some kind of epic buddhist meditation specialist you probably won't get to experience this in a 'pure' form where you literally have 'no self' for very long - in a trip it usually happens to me as a kind of 'rebooting' where my sense of self briefly collapses and then I return to my senses with an ongoing feeling of rapture and amazement (if there was no crossover or interaction with your normal mental state how would you even be aware of what happened? It would be like a dream you didn't remember on waking).

I don't really know what it would mean to actually 'live' in this state or pursue having 'no self' as a spiritual goal for day-to-day living, I don't think it's a coherent concept. In a sober context I can only really conceive of a state of 'no ego' as a deep meditational trance in which you would not be able to interact with anyone else.

Part of the feeling as you reach this kind of state in a trip, is an understanding that everything is OK, that the whole concept of suffering or struggle or physical reality, life and death is basically illusory, reality is a unity where there is no good or bad, you have transcended into some realm of pure consciousness beyond the concerns of everyday life. Even if you could bring this mental state back into everyday life, I'm not sure if it would be a good thing - you could calmly sit back and watch the world burn with no more concern than if it was a movie.

In short - a lot of interesting buddhist ideas underlie all this, and there is also some fascinating neuroscience / philosophy about how the brain creates your sense of self and what happens to your conscious experience when you disrupt this process with psychedelics. You normally identify your conscious self as the 'you' which uses language and thinks thoughts and decides to do stuff, so it can be an immense surprise to encounter some vast conscious presence within your mind that feels separate from this.

It's tempting to dismiss this whole topic as new age nonsense. The whole idea of the 'ego' is often vague, confusing and unhelpful, but when you get a revelation-filled monster trip where it feels like you died and became God, it makes you realize there is actually something interesting going on, however you want to describe it.


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I wrote that, but I meant something else


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InvisibleSonicTitan
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26144174 - 08/20/19 10:45 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

"I" is your ego.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: SonicTitan]
    #26144182 - 08/20/19 10:50 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

No it's not.  "I" is a self reference.  It is not ego.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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InvisibleCamera93S
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26144217 - 08/20/19 11:19 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Aldebaran - I really like the way you put that. I was not experiencing any sort of ego loss or ego death, more I was trying to talk to myself about the "things" I was understanding at the time and I wanted to project the thought as encompassing for everyone, but felt uncomfortable thinking like that, as though I were imposing my viewpoint onto the masses, and reeled my thought process down to an acceptance that whatever insights I have tripping ect, apply to my life and my experience with the world.
My concern was that this was exposing how selfish I am in my thoughts ( the world revolves around me, I am the focus, my thoughts and wishes are all I work to fulfill )

but I agree with what has been said though, I AM unique in a way and my experience IS subjective in a sense, so maybe I am not as big of a POS mentally as I thought.

My goal through all of this, if there can be one, is to change the core things that drive me to act. No matter how good an argument is made, a person is going to act based off some core belief system that is difficult to dramatically alter.
I have some hangups in life, I feel selfish by default, mean at times or better yet just easily irritated when my will is being hindered. Lack of self discipline in regards to substances, sleep, animal husbandry, time management.

I know all these things have practical ways to improve upon, but it feels almost like "fake it till you make it" and I think with the aid of mushrooms, writing, and reflection, I may be able to shuffle that internal deck of cards I'm playing with to effect a real and meaningful change for the better.
Kinda like using this all as a tool to help make the changes I am after.

I know the psychs wont fix or necessarily change anything on their own, but I love the mushrooms for what they allow, the ability to think in a manner I am usually to distracted to reach, its a crutch, but one I am thankful to have


--------------------
Let's All Grow Mushrooms 2020
Let's All Grow Mushrooms 2021

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

It was realer then I imagined


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InvisibleSonicTitan
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26144245 - 08/20/19 11:37 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
No it's not.  "I" is a self reference.  It is not ego.



Self referring is part of it tho. You identify as an individual separate from everyone/thing else around you when we are all just one event happening in different ways.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: SonicTitan]
    #26144324 - 08/20/19 12:16 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Selfess realization is far more of a phenomena than self.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #26144359 - 08/20/19 12:31 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The ego is used for survival. Today we have morgages, bills, social norms to keep track of. Not to different from any other time. All these things are part of society and society is not our friend.
So the ego goes to work to prepare/react to negative stimuli. I think over time we get bogged down by the ideas we let run rampant. And this is when the ego becomes to active.

For example: while in traffic before mushrooms I would get the worst road rage. I would get cut off and my ego would be like, "you dare cut ME off! Oh hell no." Now I'm simply glad the idiot didn't hit me. No anger.


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OfflineNortherner
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26145141 - 08/20/19 07:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The ego, as well as the other parts of the psyche are integrated. If they weren't that'd be straight up multiple personality disorder.

The whole concept of ego is a theory. It's not fact. When we try and hunt it down in our heads we find that it's just a label for traits and processes that we have as humans. There's no holy trinity fighting a war in our heads.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Northerner]
    #26145199 - 08/20/19 08:25 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I agree

Changing it or what manifests seems to be the ultimate quest.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: Camera93] * 2
    #26145647 - 08/21/19 05:14 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

you are unique and special.

especially so while enjoying a walk about on psychedelic and wondering about which line of thought is ego.



that's it. excellent, wonderful immersion in the universe of sensations and ideas washing over each other.
Wonder and joy and so little clingy graspy mental activity.

well done,  do it again and again, it is a huge relief from the everyday unspecial graspy clingy automatic sorting and reacting that comprise the negative aspects of self/ego/life.


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Offlineheatlessbbq
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26147186 - 08/22/19 01:03 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

It depends on the Life's intention, Mate!!!

Ego is directed by belief. From My own personal and spiritual path.

I have noticed My ego can sometimes steer Me into a direction I do not wish to go.
However, I have also noticed that My ego has protected and somehow shielded Me.

No matter which way My ego steers Me. No matter how loaded I am... It is intended.
It is going to happen. No matter what.

Intention is a powerful thing!!!


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26147300 - 08/22/19 03:35 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I wasn't expecting much from this thread, but it actually has some really beautiful insightful amazing posts in it. You guys are awesome.

Redgreenvines post is pretty much dead on with how I feel about the subject.

I feel like I want to say something about egodeath on mushrooms, but I'm not sure what to say. Even today, it is definitely in the top 3 experiences of my entire life. It might still be #1, and it's been over 10 years.


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Offlineheatlessbbq
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: nooneman]
    #26147565 - 08/22/19 10:42 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)


nooneman, You are the man! Your response is the thing We need to hear.

Thankfully there are vibes in the air that are making this early summer / fall transition;
that much better and sweet.

About the 'ego death' on mushies... Ever tried communicating with another person from a different culture in a different language while on Them?


Edited by heatlessbbq (08/22/19 10:43 AM)


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Offlineheatlessbbq
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Re: which line of thought is my ego? [Re: heatlessbbq]
    #26147571 - 08/22/19 10:47 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)


Quote:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELA6SxHpj7Wuh_w2c4x9OenA



Hamilton Morris has been heavily influencing a strong will power to learn about psychedelic substances; in a scientific and spiritual way.
Check out Vice featuring Him; Hamilton Morris and His Pharmacopeia.


Edited by heatlessbbq (08/22/19 10:47 AM)


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