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OfflineClosetFarmer
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Awesome but disappointing trip
    #26119584 - 07/20/19 09:55 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I am new to psychedelics. I ate 5 grams dried the other day. It was pretty amazing. I had taken smaller doses before, but since I am on an SSRI, I find that I keep needing to up the dose. This was supposed to be the heroic, entheogenic dose I've been building toward where I would directly experience the intrinsic selfless nature of consciousness in a convincing way. I was disappointed.

I tidied up the house, ground the material and mixed it with OJ. I drank it and sat down to meditate while I waited for the effects to kick in. (I've been meditating for the past 3 months for at least 20 minutes a day every single day. I am a thorough-going atheist, but I believe the accounts of those claiming self-transcendent "spiritual experiences." I'm just convinced that people are encountering their own minds rather than God.)

On this trip, I had much more significant open-eyed visuals than on previous smaller dose trips. If I let myself zone out, I could find myself upside down after the room changed shape. I sat and watched the amazing abstract fractal imaged my mind was producing for me while listening to music on earbuds. I felt like I was in control, though, and could come back by focusing on where I was.

While sitting, I remember at a point wondering whether my eyes were open or closed. My body wasn't there, but I knew I could return to it at any time. I looked for my self in the way I try to do while meditating, and while it was a beautiful experience, I was still there.

I thought I might see faces or places, but it was all very abstract. Kaleidoscope images. MC Escher spaces. Mosaics. So much art I've seen seems to obviously come from this space--or is it that I've taken those past experiences with me? I wish I could remember it better. After taking off the shades and going to use the bathroom, I already noted that I couldn't remember how amazing it was and what I had seen very well--only that it was amazing.

I felt like I was wasting the experience just lying there and should be trying other experiences. I thought maybe tasting food would be different. It was, things tasted worse. Metalic or something. Jalapeno poppers tasted like vomit. I went outside and saw my bare feet in the grass as though through a magnifying glass. they were huge. The grass was more alive. I stopped to stand and look at the grass and the trees and zoned out a bit, but I became concerned that the neighbors may notice that I was on something, so I went inside. I couldn't just sit out there because it was storming all day. Out my window at one point, I saw the grass dancing in the rain.

When I went back under, I was like "oh, yeah, it was like this--so amazing." I remember wishing I could show this to my wife or my friend but knowing that this was all happening in my mind.

I kept thinking, this is great, very entertaining, but I'm not learning anything. People talk about past trips as the most important experiences they ever had in their lives. For me it was way better than any ride that they have at Disney, but I don't know what I can take away from it. I kept asking, what am I learning? What about this will impact how I experience my day to day reality.

This post is me trying to process the experience, but I'm not sure there is anything that I need to or can integrate into my life. Since this trip, I think I might be finding it a bit easier to slip into a state of mindfulness that I meet while meditating, but I'm not sure.

I never felt like "I" wasn't there and have no idea what that's supposed to feel like.

What do you think? Try again with a bigger dose? Or have I gotten all there is to get from the experience?


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Offlinethisbliss
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: ClosetFarmer]
    #26119615 - 07/20/19 10:20 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Fair play doing the big 5g so soon. I've still never done it but lesser doses have blown my mind.
The SSRIs must be weakening the effect or you have a naturally high tolerance or the mushrooms were a weaker potency. If so you'll probably want to up the dose but try a few more 5g sessions just to be sure. Who knows the mushrooms might just be breaking u in. After the visual entertainment show it might be time for a lesson


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InvisibleMcLovin333
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: thisbliss]
    #26119688 - 07/20/19 11:05 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

This reminds me so much of what i had man you can look it up on my posts. I was taking ssri's too and i ate 33g of fresh shrooms and was waiting to be overwhelmed by the experience (because that was the experience when i last tried them and did not take ssri's). i am off the medication but its not completely out of my system, so i am patiently waiting to go on the shroom experience again.
What i can tell you is this:  You can take mushrooms, increase the dosage to get more of the effect. However try to look at it from this perspective: the reason the mushroom cannot engage with you is because the receptors are blocked. so as a short term solution you can increase dosage but i would highly recommend trying to get off the meds. i know people are scared and so was i. but i can tell you the pills mess your head up and we dont even know what other damages or weakenings it does that we are not fully aware of. also on a spiritual level, now that i dont take those meds, i feel myself so much more cleansed, aware and "lighter" in terms of more free. so considering that i can almost guarantee you that the experience with and without medication is majorly different.
hope i could help you out a little and give you another perspective on it.


--------------------
Searching the Unknown


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OfflineClosetFarmer
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: McLovin333]
    #26120025 - 07/20/19 02:50 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

I have tried to get off the meds. I gradually decreased until I was just taking a crumb. When I finally got completely off, I found I felt really crappy. Maybe I will try again and microdose.


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InvisibleMcLovin333
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: ClosetFarmer]
    #26120204 - 07/20/19 04:34 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

yeah definetly microdosing can help, im trying it myself. also if you cut the meds out and see that you are getting depressed again then do therapy and treat the reason why you become depressed.


--------------------
Searching the Unknown


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: ClosetFarmer]
    #26120627 - 07/20/19 09:19 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

As already discussed, The SSRI will be damping down the effects, for sure.

Quote:

I am a thorough-going atheist, but I believe the accounts of those claiming self-transcendent "spiritual experiences." I'm just convinced that people are encountering their own minds rather than God.




I would count myself as a thorough-going athiest too. One of the surprising effects I get from high doses is that they temporarily sweep this atheism away to replace it with a sudden revelation of God's presence within the trip. If I take too much, I start to think that I have literally become God.

Quote:

I never felt like "I" wasn't there and have no idea what that's supposed to feel like.

What do you think? Try again with a bigger dose? Or have I gotten all there is to get from the experience?




There is certainly more to the experience, maybe you just need a higher dose to overcome the SSRIs. Finding transcendence within a trip is like finding sand in the Sahara - it's an effort to get there but once you do the experience is filled with limitless revelations. You may well be encountering your own mind, but you have no idea what your mind is or what it is capable of doing until you experience something like this.

As for your "I" not being there, the sense of self is a specific aspect of consciousness but not the whole thing. If you reach a point in the trip where it feels like you are dying, or your consciousness is being brutally expunged by a ferocious onslaught of psychedelic mayhem, it comes as a surprise (afterwards) that consciousness continues without this sense of self. The mind is experienced as a vast ocean of consciousness which spans the entire universe (if this sounds ridiculous, remember that your conception of the 'entire universe' exists within your mind, which is quite capable of presenting it back to you at moments like this).

If you combine this with the impression of dying, you could compare the experience to receiving a vivid impression of life after death, and then returning to your senses in such a state of awe and wonder that you are not sure whether you are dead or alive, or whether your life is an illusion and the true reality is this vast consciousness which has opened up to you.

An infinite abyss opens up, filled with never-ending revelations, Gods and aliens, parallel universes and paranoid delusions, death and reincarnation, apocalypse and nirvana, transcendence and insanity... everything comes into play at high doses.

Don't put yourself under any pressure to learn anything specific or integrate profound insights into your everyday life - it's a psychedelic trip not a self-improvement convention. I do find that mushrooms are great for spurring creativity and producing a massive brainstorm of ideas, but often these ideas don't make a lot of sense. That's part of the fun of shrooms; you are not limited by the real or the rational.

:fearandloathing:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineClosetFarmer
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26121175 - 07/21/19 06:58 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Aldebaran said:

There is certainly more to the experience, maybe you just need a higher dose to overcome the SSRIs. Finding transcendence within a trip is like finding sand in the Sahara - it's an effort to get there but once you do the experience is filled with limitless revelations. You may well be encountering your own mind, but you have no idea what your mind is or what it is capable of doing until you experience something like this.

As for your "I" not being there, the sense of self is a specific aspect of consciousness but not the whole thing. If you reach a point in the trip where it feels like you are dying, or your consciousness is being brutally expunged by a ferocious onslaught of psychedelic mayhem, it comes as a surprise (afterwards) that consciousness continues without this sense of self. The mind is experienced as a vast ocean of consciousness which spans the entire universe (if this sounds ridiculous, remember that your conception of the 'entire universe' exists within your mind, which is quite capable of presenting it back to you at moments like this).

If you combine this with the impression of dying, you could compare the experience to receiving a vivid impression of life after death, and then returning to your senses in such a state of awe and wonder that you are not sure whether you are dead or alive, or whether your life is an illusion and the true reality is this vast consciousness which has opened up to you.

An infinite abyss opens up, filled with never-ending revelations, Gods and aliens, parallel universes and paranoid delusions, death and reincarnation, apocalypse and nirvana, transcendence and insanity... everything comes into play at high doses.

:fearandloathing:




What you describe is what I am looking for in a trip. I take it that the loss of a sense of self is not subtle and I will know it for sure when it happens (or after).

I suppose I will give it at least a few weeks (if only to build up my stock of material) and then try again.

Thanks.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: ClosetFarmer]
    #26121744 - 07/21/19 12:06 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

This turned out to be a long post but I hope I managed to explain myself. Obviously these are just my own ideas; you can ask 10 trippers to define ego death and get 10 different answers. The  stretching noise you can hear is the sound of metaphors being strained...

Quote:

ClosetFarmer wrote: I take it that the loss of a sense of self is not subtle and I will know it for sure when it happens (or after).




I think 'losing your sense of self' is a means to an end in these kind of trips - you lose your sense of self when you fall into a deep sleep or blackout from alcohol, but it's not the same thing as 'ego death'.

The real aim is more of an awakening. Within a strong trip, losing your sense of self can potentially reveal a vast underlying consciousness, as though the true basis of reality is consciousness itelf, with the entire universe one giant, infinitely complex conscious entity. Losing your sense of self is like turning off the interior light in your car so that you can see what is outside in the dark, lit up by the eerie glow of the psychedelic experience.

:raveface:

You could also compare the experience to coming into contact with your unconscious mind. Your day-to-day conscious self is like a busy little tug boat navigating its way through a port, and only when the fog of your busy mind clears do you see the size of the supertanker on the end of the lines, its hold filled with the raw background consciousness you are only dimly aware of in day-to-day life.

Quote:


..like a cessation or dissolution of normal consciousness, followed by a dawning awareness of something huge, finally a real connection to this otherness that's been stalking me throughout the trip. Like flipping over your consciousness to it's B-side, delving into normally unconscious realms and being wired into the universe itself.

Where you were an individual looking out at the universe, now you are temporarily wiped out and you become the universe looking back at itself. The loss of an individual viewpoint replaced by a sense of totality. The loss of the normal chitter-chatter of personal thoughts to be replaced by an awareness that seems infinite. Rapture.

After a short while I get the distinct sense of waking up, although it's sometimes hard to grasp what I'm waking up from, especially if I'm sat up with my eyes open. Sometimes the whole process is confused, and I don't have a clear idea of what happened other than being "lost" for a while, or dying, and "coming back".




:busytripping:

It's difficult to say a great deal about what happens to your day-to-day consciousness when you are 'not there', and I'm not sure a great deal does; a camera that continues to film when the characters have walked out of the picture. It is a consciousness beyond the one you define as your own that is the source of the awe you feel. In scientific terms it might be the temporary making of new connections within the brain which is taking place; to you it feels like an encounter with the ultimate fabric of reality.

It can be difficult to define and pin down whether you really achieved a state of "no-self" during a trip, and you have to remember that the term "ego loss" encompasses a range of states, with an entire buddhist tradition behind it, which are achievable through meditation aswell as psychedelics. I think you lose your sense of self to varying degrees during the average trip anyway.

The sense and the meaning to the experience come when you return to your senses having come into contact with this something beyond yourself, arriving at a greater whole, a transcendence from a limited, personal view of consciousness to something much deeper.

Quote:

I think there's a worthwhile distinction between "ego death" and "ego loss" where you can achieve the same thing in more or less psychologically violent ways. Ego loss can be serene. Ego death... well the clue is in the fact that someone put the word "death" in there.




For the unsubtle version of 'ego death', if you felt as though you died within the trip, and then woke up into a awe-inspiring state of mystical rapture, that would be it.

:tigerbunny:

Reading back one of my old posts about ego death, I noticed a comment describing the difficult intensity of a trip building towards this:

Quote:

The trip itself begins to reveal the presence of something "other" within it. Sometimes it can feel like the wrath of God, or something ancient, alien and indefinable. The sense of waking something up




This startling sensation is when the trip stops feeling like a drug experience, and you start to worry that you have genuinely crossed a line and come into contact with some powerful, intelligent entity. Reading this back years later, I think the thing you are waking up is the same vast consciousness which subsumes your own later in the trip, which itself then feels like an awakening.

I think one defining feature of 'ego death' is that the trip intensifies to the point where 'you' can no longer continue to exist within it.

Quote:


I wouldn't say that all of my high dose trips end up with "ego death", but they do have a common factor in that they don't leave much room for the self. A heavy trip feels like something that is pushing the "ego" aside. Some of my trip journals refer to "being smeared down the side of everything" as though the trip had filled my consciousness to the point where my normal sense of self was just an insignificant part of something huge. It's as though the unconscious mind has gone supernova and obliterated the known world.

Sometimes the "ego death" trip is one where you can feel that you cannot continue to exist, that you will have to "die" within the trip because all the foundations of your regular experience are disappearing into the abyss.




:aliceshocker:

The bluntest statement of 'ego death' is to say that you 'die' within the trip. It can be hard to persuade yourself that there could be any way back from what is happening, and to rapidly shift from a nightmarishly apocalyptic trip, to oblivion, to a dawning awareness of some vast consciousness beyond yourself, to "coming back" to your sense of self with the awareness of this still present, is a full-on revelation. This is not a subtle process, no, although it might be hard to define exactly when 'you' were or weren't there during this... and it hardly matters to be honest, you are 'present' for the vast majority of the trip - your 'awakening' was the point, the oblivion that brought you there was the means.

Ego death is the process of having reality dissolve to the extent that you have to surrender to the trip; the first time it happens it can be hard to understand how you could continue to exist in any way once the trip obliterates you, because it feels like you are actually dying. The key event is that the 'ground' of your consciousness temporarily shifts from your 'self' to this other form of consciousness beyond yourself, which you do not even recognize as being part of your mind. It's a startling event which in the moment is hard to interpret in any other way than that you have visited a consciousness beyond your own, you have seen beyond death or glimpsed the matrix; something impossible and supernatural.

Quote:

When you have utterly nuked reality as you know it and removed the entire basis for your sense of self, and returned to something like normal consciousness thinking that you are in some kind of post-death state, you think to yourself "is this what they mean by ego death?" but you no longer really care what anybody wants to call it.




Quote:

At this point in the trip, my thoughts are dominated by a very strong mystical, spiritual feeling of oneness - a sense of transcending normal realms and coming into contact with the underlying structure of reality, God, however you want to think about it. A sense that I have seen the truth at the heart of reality, some benevolent force that will ensure everything is OK.

It's a feeling of immense surprise, rapture, as if aliens had landed in my back garden and brought God with them, a feeling of understanding an underlying truth that I had always known but forgotten and repressed in the hum of everyday life. I think this incredible feeling is what is really remarkable about "ego death" - for me it is the central core of my psychedelic experiences, the defining feature of my ego-death trips.




:loveheart:



TL:DR Probably the best short definition of ego death in simple terms I came up with was this:

Quote:

the intensity will escalate until you reach a point which feels like some kind of impending oblivion or death. 'Ego death' is the moment when the wave of this apocalyptic meltdown finally breaks and you feel an absolute sense of release, bliss, rapture, universal consciousness, spiritual awakening e.t.c as you come back from oblivion into a euphoric state of total amazement.




This post contains the links to most of the quoted posts I wrote about ego death. From a philosophical point of view it's interesting to try and come up with a definition or explanation of ego death, but when you are actually tripping the real test is not whether you met some arbitrary criteria of ego death that somebody made up on the internet, but whether your trip felt meaningful and worthwhile.

If you end up in a state of blissful mystical rapture, analyzing in great detail exactly how you got there is beside the point, but I hope I've given some indication of what there is to be experienced, and that you get to experience it in your own way.

:sunstone:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineClosetFarmer
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: Aldebaran]
    #26125373 - 08/07/19 09:28 AM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks. I followed the links to your previous posts. Interesting reading.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: ClosetFarmer]
    #26125725 - 08/07/19 02:12 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Some trips are better or more life changing than others. It's all largely random. It's totally normal for some trips to be life changing, and others not. Even a lot of medical research on psychedelics focuses on how to get the most out of the experience, because it's certainly also possible to get nothing out of it.

If only we could make every trip as life changing as our most life changing trip! I think that's a goal every experienced psychonaut tries for, but fails to reach.


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Offlinethisbliss
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Re: Awesome but disappointing trip [Re: nooneman]
    #26125764 - 08/07/19 02:46 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

Great thread some cool descriptions of the undescribable 👍


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